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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1885 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Aug 2013 : 21:29:19
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As many of you know, I'm no fan of 4e and so my knowledge of the era is severely lacking. But, as I understand it, many elves are no longer drow (do 'drow' even actually exist anymore?). We have some who are green elves again (stooooopid) and some who are dark elves (but not drow). If I'm wrong then please correct me and ignore the rest of my post.
I want DROW in my game. Not 'dark elves' or 'shadow elves' (those can just be other terms used to describe drow though)...but ink-black, crimson-eyed and generally eeeeviiil DROW. So, if my assertion above is true, how do we GET THEM BACK in 5e?
I was thinking Lloth will have to ensnare them in her web. What I mean by that is this. The 'dark elves' are caught in her web, but like all spiders, she must move to wrap them in her web to prevent any hope of escape. To do so, she must bind them to the Underdark again. This means tying them to the faerzress again and subsquently modifying their appearance to be what it should be. But how?
Well, she IS a greater deity in 4e and, presumably, would have the power to tie them to the Underdark again. It may take time. She may have to do it one settlement at a time. It may cost her some power in the end (going to Intermediate status possibly). But she should be able to do it...without the (IMO) cheeeeesy Wendonai corruption garbage. IF a given dark elf is evil AND worships (or at least has a very healthy fear of) her, then she should be able to ensnare and alter them.
Thoughts?
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I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3823 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2013 : 22:05:11
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Drow are still there. The ones turned into brownies (dark elves) are Eilistraee's followers, even tho this change makes very little sense because the Dark Maiden is about being drow who -differently from Lolthites- are free of shaping their own future and making their choices about a different kind of life. Besides, turning the brownies back into drow is something that only Corellon and High Magic could do and Lolth has nothing to do with it (it would make little sense lore-wise).
All ''ebil'', brainwashed and fanatic drow is what you have atm and -tbh- is one of the last things I'd like to see staying, as the FR drow have always been unique by presenting good variety and depth among both mortals and deities. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 14 Aug 2013 22:06:35 |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2013 : 22:05:43
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| To be honest your seething hatred I think is blinding you Dow are still drow in 4e just don't read the rose of sarifel as canon. |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1885 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2013 : 22:09:53
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| Ah that's right, I forgot it was limited to her followers. Still a nonsense storyline IMO though. Thanks for the correction Irennan. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
Edited by - The Arcanamach on 14 Aug 2013 22:10:18 |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2013 : 04:17:24
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| My desire for the drow: bring Eilistraee and Vhaeraun back! |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2013 : 06:17:37
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quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
My desire for the drow: bring Eilistraee and Vhaeraun back!
speaking to the choir |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2013 : 07:14:03
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quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
My desire for the drow: bring Eilistraee and Vhaeraun back!
speaking to the choir
bring evil drizzit back! |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3823 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2013 : 10:57:11
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Has he ever been evil  |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Lord Bane
Senior Scribe
Germany
479 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2013 : 11:36:51
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quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
My desire for the drow: bring Eilistraee and Vhaeraun back!
A statement i can agree with! But let us add Kiaransalee into the mix aswell please! |
The driving force in the multiverse is evil, for it forces good to act. |
Edited by - Lord Bane on 15 Aug 2013 11:38:48 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2013 : 13:53:09
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I like the idea of the Dark Elves just being dark elves, but we already had something very similar (the wild elves were pretty-much unchanged dark elves, IMO).
I also like the cursed Drow - they are a D&D cornerstone. However, Ed had albino drow, and I think something should be done with that - perhaps some sort of nobility (ie, 'greater drow').
I think that perhaps Drow (PCs) should have some sort of quest they can take to redeem themselves and become simply Grugach (wild elves) again. Some sort of service to Corellon, maybe. Not sure how the 5e rules will be setup - maybe a PrC or some sort of racial feat (with a level PreReq). In fact, that could even be a very interesting storyline - having some Drow becoming just elves again; I would imagine the other elves would hold them in reverence (because they've received a direct blessing from Corellon, reversing the curse). A few, of course, would still revile them, thinking they 'cheated' somehow (there are always haters, and they make for good gaming antagonists).
EDIT: However, this whole thing about them becoming 'lighter' and 'good' at the same time could stir a pot best left unstirred... which is precisely why they should work the even eviler 'albino drow' into the mix.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 15 Aug 2013 13:54:32 |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3823 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2013 : 14:57:33
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I'm not much fond of the ''change skin approach''. Drow are proud people, and they are happy with being... well, drow. I guess that the ones who manage to break free (like Eilistraee's followers) would have no reason to want to change appearence, as their drowness is part of their identity (remeber Liriel? I highly doubt that she's in the minority in regard to that feeling). As I said before, the cool part of the ''redemption'' is being a drow free to make his/her own choices, breaking all the prejudice and the brainwashing BS that they're forced to stand.
How would you feel if someone told you that humans' true form was green skinned and that your current one is inferior, cursed or smth? Personallu, I would be very pissed if something like this happened to me. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 15 Aug 2013 14:58:30 |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2511 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2013 : 22:05:32
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Well, duh. It simply doesn't connect with anything else in any way that makes sense.
Of course, we can pretend to not notice that this doesn't make any flipping sense. And instead try to stretch, twist and theologize everything else to fit some stunningly silly notions written by someone who quite obviously never looks up or asks even elementary trivia, instead always making up things on the level of typical (the ones about angsty small-headed puffy-chested marysues) DC/Marvel/Hasbro comics notorious for their almost nonexistent continuity. But what would be the point to even try?  |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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jerrod
Learned Scribe
157 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2013 : 00:24:09
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| I'm in favor of the dark elves being made back into brown skinned elves,but not in agreement about "elite" albino drow. It is offensive.that the dark elves become light to be considered good.that was one of the problems I had with the epic destiny that had that as the ultimate fate of that particular prestige class. As an Afro-American it is belittling and hurtful to think that ad&d would promote such terrible ideals of superiority. Many members may not agree with what I'm saying but ALL of the ones with my racial background would. |
I haven't been here in years but I used to be DARKFLAME MILLITHOR(DROW ARCHMAGE of wildmagic |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2013 : 03:28:43
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| Having albino drow would be all right if they were just that: albino drow, like there are albino humans. An albino drow could be either goodly aligned (following Eistraee, for example), or evil. In a Lolth-driven society, however, an albino drow might be prosecuted, and maybe even killed. I remember from the Liriel books that the drow were about perfection, and Shakti had to hide the fact she had bad vision. An albino drow would probably fare better on the surface. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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jerrod
Learned Scribe
157 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2013 : 03:53:24
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| True. |
I haven't been here in years but I used to be DARKFLAME MILLITHOR(DROW ARCHMAGE of wildmagic |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4702 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2013 : 04:13:31
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Albino Drow, clearly would not be "elite", they would be handicapped as is any albino. There clearly is not reason to believe the few that survive would be good, likely in order to survive they would have to do much Evil.
All Elves have standards of what they consider fair in appearance, Drow and all of the Surface, Sea and Sky Elves. The only difference is that Lolthian Drow are quicker to kill those that do not fit the desired parameters of what an Elf should look like, the others will kill or allow to die ("Do not heal that one"), exile, etc. as well. Drow of course living in the underdark, life is hard to hold onto at all. Reason quick to kill any danger or weakness. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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jerrod
Learned Scribe
157 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2013 : 04:38:36
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| Kentinal is must likely correct in this opinion....except the albino drow in the maztica trilogy was accepted. |
I haven't been here in years but I used to be DARKFLAME MILLITHOR(DROW ARCHMAGE of wildmagic |
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KacyCrawford
Acolyte
USA
41 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2013 : 08:34:17
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| I too agree with Kentinal |
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Lord Bane
Senior Scribe
Germany
479 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2013 : 09:07:23
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| Yet as we know Irae T'sarran made it to the top, if she is now "more evil" than any other drow who may be more inclined to follow Lolth, iŽd question that. |
The driving force in the multiverse is evil, for it forces good to act. |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2511 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2013 : 11:07:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Albino Drow, clearly would not be "elite", they would be handicapped as is any albino. [...] Drow of course living in the underdark, life is hard to hold onto at all. Reason quick to kill any danger or weakness.
On the practical side, commonly albino deal with sunlight and metabolical implications - which may be less, because, well, normally drow are neither subjected to sunlight nor need it and UD radiations involved are of the sort that easily penetrates stone and weapon grade steel-like alloys anyway. They may or may not have slightly greater or lesser infra-signature depending on what exactly infravision shows; circulation variations probably are more contrast, which is a disadvantage (social, rather than tactical). They probably won't like it on the surface too much, because there's one more disadvantage in low-light (as opposed to total darkness) condition - with bone-white skin it's harder to hide without either wrapping in cloth until only eyes are visible or using dyes on the skin. Then again, thihs also applies when someone else nearby gets painted with faerie fire or in any "infravision disabled" conditions.
quote:
There clearly is not reason to believe the few that survive would be good, likely in order to survive they would have to do much Evil.
So, it's not that good is stupid, it's surviving that evil? |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2013 : 21:52:13
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| The Szarkai (albino drow) already exist in FR, IIRC. They are rare, of course, but are usually considered a "blessing of Lolth" tot he House they are born to, since they are able to pass as a surface elf. They are usually employed as infiltrators of surface elf communities by their House, spies and assassins and the like. However, this DOES give them the opportunity to learn of other ways of life, and some probably turn away from their evil heritage and become like any other elf, choosing their own path. So it's a double-edged sword in this case. Lolth's "blessing" might well turn into an embarrassment if the albino drow turns rogue and leaves home! |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4702 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2013 : 22:13:34
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Alystra, hmm I am not all that sure albino Drow would be well accepted as surface elves, there is the problem with sunlight and vision.
There again if Drow have a few albinos, clearly the fair (surface elves) would likely have some as well.
Thus infiltration clearly might be possible. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2511 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2013 : 14:23:44
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Sunlight adaptation is always an option. Especially for a wizard.
But the whole idea IMO is just a silly copycat of Malenti. Because an albino drow still won't look quite like a surface elf other than from afar. And it's easier to use spells for disguise rather than go with not-quite-here and correct minor details with methods that can fail accidentally rather than under magical probing.
The only advantage of an albino drow would be possibility to still pass as the real thing upon running into a dead-magic area - by trying to write off somewhat weird appearance as "Eep! I don't feel well at all!", understandable for a magic-deprived elf. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2013 : 18:20:31
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| The Drow and their pantheon is one of the things I want to see rolled back to pre-spellplague. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2013 : 01:48:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Alystra, hmm I am not all that sure albino Drow would be well accepted as surface elves, there is the problem with sunlight and vision.
There again if Drow have a few albinos, clearly the fair (surface elves) would likely have some as well.
Thus infiltration clearly might be possible.
According to the Drow of the Underdark 3.5 book, they are often specially trained for surface missions, including learning to operate in daylight conditions. Since they are not completely "white" (they DO still have some color to skin and hair, and eyes are often blue or gray instead of red) they could pass as a pale-skinned Moon elf or a Gold elf with very light hair. At least that is how they are described in the sources. Remember, they are trained from birth, so they have plenty of time to learn tolerance for sunlight, as well as using clothing to minimize difference in appearance. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Speculation/Desire for the Drow
