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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore

Denmark
1093 Posts

Posted - 07 Jul 2013 :  17:53:36  Show Profile Send Nicolai Withander a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Hi..

After reading up on some polymorphing I was hit with the notion, that there once was a polymorphing spell that actually turned the caster into a different kind of being. Not just the looks, but in all terms the caster became a dragon for instance. And therefore True Seeing did not see the caster, but only the said dragon.

I don’t remember what rules 1st, 2nd, 3.x but I am quite sure the spell was there somewhere.

Can anyone help?

Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
3805 Posts

Posted - 07 Jul 2013 :  18:19:50  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
IIRC, Shapechange (3 and 3.5 e) does what you are looking for.

Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things.
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Kentinal
Great Reader

4687 Posts

Posted - 07 Jul 2013 :  18:35:52  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
1st and 2nd as I recall.

From 2nd Core Rules CD

quote:
The polymorph other spell is a powerful magic that completely alters the form and ability, and possibly the personality and mentality, of the recipient. Of course, while a creature with a lower Intelligence can be polymorphed in form into something with a higher Intelligence, it will not gain that creature's mental ability. The reverse--polymorphing a higher Intelligence creature into one of significantly lower Intelligence--results in a creature much more intelligent than appearances would lead one to believe. The polymorphed creature must succeed on a system shock (see Table 3) roll to see if it survives the change. After this, it must make a special Intelligence check to see if it retains its personality (see following).

The polymorphed creature acquires the form and physical abilities of the creature it has been polymorphed into, while retaining its own mind. Form includes natural Armor Class (that due to skin toughness, but not due to quickness, magical nature, etc.), physical movement abilities (walking, swimming, and flight with wings, but not plane shifting, blinking, teleporting, etc.), and attack routines (claw/claw/bite, swoop, rake, and constriction, but not petrification, breath weapons, energy drain, etc.). Hit points and saving throws do not change from the original form. Noncorporeal forms cannot be assumed. Natural shapeshifters (lycanthropes, dopplegangers, higher level druids, etc.) are affected for but one round, and can then resume their normal form.

If slain, the polymorphed creature reverts to its original form, though it remains dead. (Note that most creatures generally prefer their own form and will not willingly stand the risk of being subjected to this spell!) As class and level are not attributes of form, abilities derived from either cannot be gained by this spell, nor can exact ability scores be specified.
When the polymorph occurs, the creature's equipment, if any, melds into the new form (in particularly challenging campaigns, the DM may allow protective devices, such as a ring of protection, to continue operating effectively). The creature retains its mental abilities, including spell use, assuming the new form allows completion of the proper verbal and somatic components and the material components are available. Creatures not used to a new form might be penalized at the DM's option (for example, -2 to attack rolls) until they practice sufficiently to master it.

When the physical change occurs, there is a base 100% chance that the subject's personality and mentality change into that of the new form (i.e., a roll of 20 or less on 1d20). For each 1 point of Intelligence of the subject, subtract 1 from the base chance on 1d20. Additionally, for every Hit Die of difference between the original form and the form it is assuming, add or subtract 1 (depending on whether polymorphed form has more Hit Dice [or levels] or fewer Hit Dice [or levels] than original, respectively). The chance for assumption of the personality and mentality of the new form is checked daily until the change takes place.

A subject acquiring the mentality of the new form has effectively become the creature whose form was assumed and comes under the control of the DM until recovered by a wish spell or similar magic. Once this final change takes place, the creature acquires the new form's full range of magical and special abilities.



Edited format typo.

"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon

Edited by - Kentinal on 07 Jul 2013 18:37:06
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36797 Posts

Posted - 07 Jul 2013 :  18:52:33  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In 2E, as well, shapechange would allow you to assume another creature's form with all of its abilities (including magical ones)

Volo's Guide to the North had a variant called dragonshape, which would allow the caster to assume the form -- again, with all of the abilities -- of any dragon previously seen. However, this spell was nerfed in later sourcebooks, and became a 9th-level variant polymorph (physical shape and abilities, nothing more). I never understood why they nerfed it, because any caster capable of casting the weaker nerfed version would be better off with a regular shapechange.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 07 Jul 2013 18:53:36
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore

Denmark
1093 Posts

Posted - 07 Jul 2013 :  23:17:09  Show Profile Send Nicolai Withander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ok... Thanks!

Gotta say, that I dont think the 3.x version actually transforms the caster into another kind of creature, it allows the caster to asume the form of any being max HD 50. But t does not say it "really" tranforms the caster...

Any thoughts on then True Seeing thing I mentioned?
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Kentinal
Great Reader

4687 Posts

Posted - 07 Jul 2013 :  23:38:38  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander

Ok... Thanks!

Gotta say, that I dont think the 3.x version actually transforms the caster into another kind of creature, it allows the caster to asume the form of any being max HD 50. But t does not say it "really" tranforms the caster...

Any thoughts on then True Seeing thing I mentioned?



Well True Seeing will show what is true, from 3.5 SRD
quote:
You confer on the subject the ability to see all things as they actually are. The subject sees through normal and magical darkness, notices secret doors hidden by magic, sees the exact locations of creatures or objects under blur or displacement effects, sees invisible creatures or objects normally, sees through illusions, and sees the true form of polymorphed, changed, or transmuted things. Further, the subject can focus its vision to see into the Ethereal Plane (but not into extradimensional spaces). The range of true seeing conferred is 120 feet.

True seeing, however, does not penetrate solid objects. It in no way confers X-ray vision or its equivalent. It does not negate concealment, including that caused by fog and the like.


From my CD 2nd Edition
quote:
When the priest employs this spell, he confers upon the recipient the ability to see all things as they actually are. The spell penetrates normal and magical darkness. Secret doors become plain. The exact location of displaced things is obvious. Invisible things become quite visible. Illusions and apparitions are seen through. Polymorphed, changed, or enchanted things are apparent. Even the aura projected by creatures becomes visible, so that alignment can be discerned. Further, the recipient can focus his vision to see into the Ethereal plane or the bordering areas of adjacent planes. The range of vision conferred is 120 feet. True seeing, however, does not penetrate solid objects; it in no way confers X-ray vision or its equivalent. In addition, the spell effects cannot be further enhanced with known magic.


3rd, one might see a transformed and assimilated character as being such, it though might. 2nd it strikes me it is certain the spell will show show a transformed character.

"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
3805 Posts

Posted - 08 Jul 2013 :  01:32:46  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander

Ok... Thanks!

Gotta say, that I dont think the 3.x version actually transforms the caster into another kind of creature, it allows the caster to asume the form of any being max HD 50. But t does not say it "really" tranforms the caster...

Any thoughts on then True Seeing thing I mentioned?



It says that the caster's type changes into the one of the creature of choice (for example, human into dragon), so the spell actually performs the transformation.

Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things.
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