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jordanz
Senior Scribe
556 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Jun 2013 : 04:53:01
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http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Githzerai
I understand they originate from outside of the prime material planes but I would think that at least one Gith could be given some "shine in a Forgotten Realms novel.
It seems like a big waste of an interesting race (remember that old "Fiend Folio" Cover?!) with an interesting history....
Comments?
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Edited by - jordanz on 27 Jun 2013 04:57:10
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2013 : 05:07:24
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to know that one gith showed up as a party member in nwn2, to know that it was githzeri and to know that you were able to kill some githyanki and wield a silver sword. To also know a video game is just a story in another form..
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why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2013 : 08:42:23
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I've always liked the githyanki and githzerai, and I would like to see a few more of them around as well, but unless (A) the plot of the adventure or book is directly concerned with them, or (B) there's not much plot and basically the entire story is given to character development... I'm guessing they're problematic from a writing angle. The githyanki culture is radically different from that of Realms races, so the githyanki subplot eclipses the other subplots and competes with the main plot. So a novel with a githyanki protagonist kinda becomes a novel about the githyanki race. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but a strong Realms character is needed to make it a Realms novel rather than a generic D&D novel... and a lot of fans have been saying they're tired of Elminster and Drizzt. Which probably sounds weird; I'm just thinking that WotC probably equates "strong Realms characters" with the most-published ones. I wouldn't want Elminster or Drizzt in a githyanki novel anyway; they're not the right characters for it. I'd prefer a cast of hitherto-unknown characters (the residents of the town the githyanki fugitive holes up in) rather than tying the novel(s) to one previously-published character. All true for adventures as well; not just novels.
Just my take on it, as an aspiring author who would like to write it and is now brainstorming in a notepad.  |
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2013 : 09:12:11
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A subspecies of gith (a unique individual technically spawned from the original illithid experiments on the humans that became the gith eventually) shows up as the major antagonist in one of Paul Kemp's novels.
The name of the novel escapes me at the moment, but it was particularly good, and also had some nice appearances by some slaadi. |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2013 : 11:24:37
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It was actually the first Erevis Cale series.
The character was The Sojourner/Vhostym.
The most fascinating aspect of all of that is that he was truly ancient, some sort of proto-Gith, and considered Toril his homeworld. Once again, The Forgotten Realms seems to be the center of the D&D universe. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 27 Jun 2013 11:27:10 |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2461 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2013 : 11:55:55
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He may have some theories. Though in the end, they were a mix of "little of everything" back in thralldom, so no one could tell for sure.
The answer to OP is: Gith have only two good reasons to appear - hunting mindflayers (in which case they'd have to follow some lead/trail, not just muck around blindly) and some business (or "unfinished business... <TWACK>") with some local planewalkers. Even a Slaad have better reasons, such as discovering the land of its great ancestors and having a desire to go into a "pilgrimage" out of random curiosity, without any more specific causes. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1876 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2013 : 13:57:17
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| There is a great campaign arc in Dungeon magazine (volume escapes me and Im too lazy to go look it up). It's generic but EASILY adapted to the Realms. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2013 : 14:05:33
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quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
There is a great campaign arc in Dungeon magazine (volume escapes me and Im too lazy to go look it up). It's generic but EASILY adapted to the Realms.
Are you referring to the "Lich Queen" saga of DUNGEON #100?
[The particular issue, BTW, had an accompanying series of articles in the concurrent DRAGON issue release [#309] which provided additional material for running the adventure-module in various other WotC campaign settings, like the Realms.]
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2013 : 14:10:24
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Githyanki do exist in the Realms, thanks to a number of specific references.
The Ol' Grey Box referenced a githyanki corpse turn up in the Dalelands, indicative perhaps of a githyanki presence nearby. A more solid reference however, and one that's been mentioned, can be found in Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark, which notes a githyanki enclave in the old dwarven sub-realm of Torglor - once part of Deep Shanatar.
Another reference... githyanki appear in the final "Marco Volo" adventure, serving the intelligent artifact 'The Dragonking's Eye.'
Githyanki are especially noted as not being welcome in the Bazaar of Menzoberranzan, which could suggest they've appeared there to some degree.
Githyanki are noted also in Underdark, pg. 135, in 1250 DR during a githyanki attack on Ch'Chitl.
And lastly, this isn't as "official" as the references offered above, but githyanki were brought into "The North" during an old DUNGEON adventure ["Into the Silver Realm", DUNGEON #43], which detailed the discovery of a silver sword and the consequences that eventuated.
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There's not a whole lot of established Realmslore about the Githzerai themselves. In fact, the only githzerai mentioned in a Realms product I can remember, aside from a reference in the PGtF, is Skullport [home to a githerzai exile -- named Grimmbold the Gith]. |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2013 : 01:07:27
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My scroll about The Gith races discusses them in some detail and mentions all the known (to me) sources of material wherein these races appear within the Realms.
Shemmy was referring to the Sojourner, a unique and ancient gith who was also discussed (as far as possible) in my scroll.
The Planescape: Torment CRPG prominently features a githzerai character. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe
489 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2013 : 07:46:08
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
He may have some theories. Though in the end, they were a mix of "little of everything" back in thralldom, so no one could tell for sure.
The answer to OP is: Gith have only two good reasons to appear - hunting mindflayers (in which case they'd have to follow some lead/trail, not just muck around blindly) and some business (or "unfinished business... <TWACK>") with some local planewalkers. Even a Slaad have better reasons, such as discovering the land of its great ancestors and having a desire to go into a "pilgrimage" out of random curiosity, without any more specific causes.
Illithids often appear in novels concerning the drow, so I would love for some Gith to show up and hunt them. At least for one illithid to mention something about the Gith. Is that too much to ask for? |
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe
489 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2013 : 07:48:04
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| Sage, what kind of stunt would you have to pull to be banned from Menzoberranzan? |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2461 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2013 : 08:11:30
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| IIRC, Menzoberranyr work with mindflayers now and then (both in sourcebooks and Salvatore's prequel trilogy), so there's an obvious potential for unpleasantness (direct or indirect) already, given how much illithids and gith are happy to see each other. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe
489 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2013 : 03:29:50
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
IIRC, Menzoberranyr work with mindflayers now and then (both in sourcebooks and Salvatore's prequel trilogy), so there's an obvious potential for unpleasantness (direct or indirect) already, given how much illithids and gith are happy to see each other.
I don't know why that didn't occur to me. Good answer. Recalling that drow and illithids work together sometimes, I will note one thing I find unsettling about their interactions. Drow always seem to get the better of illithids. We hear about illithids being so fearsome (and rightfully so!), but in every book I've read where they come into conflict, drow always have the upper hand. It's a bit irksome. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2013 : 03:38:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Lilianviaten
Sage, what kind of stunt would you have to pull to be banned from Menzoberranzan?
The Menzoberranzan source doesn't elaborate on that, but I think TBeholder's explanation works.
I'll also note that in the same sentence that refers to githyanki not being welcome in the Bazaar, both neogi and beholders are also mentioned. So it could just be the fact that these aberrant outer planar races are simply too deviant/unpredictable for even the drow to deal with. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36863 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2013 : 05:22:33
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| In Spelljammer material, it's said that the drow dislike the neogi because their appearance is an affront to Lolth. |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2013 : 05:57:07
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| Finders Bane mentions them worshiping a lich queen,and if your on the astral plane to always avoid them. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36863 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2013 : 14:15:39
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quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer
Finders Bane mentions them worshiping a lich queen,and if your on the astral plane to always avoid them.
The githyanki and their lich queen is well-established in planar lore. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2013 : 07:21:58
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| with 5e showing up, and spelljammer showing with it, we could end up getting the Gith back in a few stories and crossovers. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2013 : 16:25:55
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I don’t buy the “gith are rarely seen because they are not of the Realms.” How come the aboleths—who are definitely not of the Realms—got a trilogy of their own?
Most likely the creative department is taking it one step at a time. The Sojourner has been well liked as a villain, I suppose, so we’ll probably see more of his kind soon. We’ve also seen protagonists and villains alike of certain classes and races who aren’t normally given much face time in novels—the yuan-ti, tiefling, psionicist, genasi, dragonborn, etc. Perhaps the Powers-That-Be are completing a “list,” and in time, they’d go back to the gith. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2461 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2013 : 18:10:09
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| But the Aboleths, indeed, live there, if mostly out of sight. Gith visit, usually to raid some mindflayers. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2013 : 19:22:57
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@Dennis
They probably got their own thing, because a writer said, ooo I want to write about that, and got green lighted. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2013 : 06:14:53
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
But the Aboleths, indeed, live there, if mostly out of sight. Gith visit, usually to raid some mindflayers.
Aboleths live in the Realms (Prime) now, but they are originally from the Far Realm. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2461 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2013 : 10:20:41
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Now, now. "Far Realm" appeared - in the best Giant Space Flea From Nowhere style, without meaningful connection to anything - when Bruce Cordell was sliding from brilliant development of Monstrous Arcana into meaningless "Let's add some hentacles... more hentacles... hmmm... what now? Ooh! I know! Some extra hentacles!".  Aboleths first appeared before that.
Ahem. In FR sources there were mentions of aboleths lurking out of sight for ages and ages. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2013 : 10:58:59
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Blah lets be honest, the entire intragod wars were getting old, the blood wars are gone , but now the devil lord is a god, and everyone else just seemed...mortal.
I want to know, why far realm is allowed into the realms without AO getting pissy |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36863 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2013 : 17:00:01
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Now, now. "Far Realm" appeared - in the best Giant Space Flea From Nowhere style, without meaningful connection to anything - when Bruce Cordell was sliding from brilliant development of Monstrous Arcana into meaningless "Let's add some hentacles... more hentacles... hmmm... what now? Ooh! I know! Some extra hentacles!". Aboleths first appeared before that.
Ahem. In FR sources there were mentions of aboleths lurking out of sight for ages and ages.
Indeed. Aboleth presence in the Realms goes back to 2E, at least. Until the one-off that was the Sojourner, I don't recall a single reference to any of the gith races in the Realms. None since him, either. |
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe
489 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2013 : 22:27:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I don’t buy the “gith are rarely seen because they are not of the Realms.” How come the aboleths—who are definitely not of the Realms—got a trilogy of their own?
Most likely the creative department is taking it one step at a time. The Sojourner has been well liked as a villain, I suppose, so we’ll probably see more of his kind soon. We’ve also seen protagonists and villains alike of certain classes and races who aren’t normally given much face time in novels—the yuan-ti, tiefling, psionicist, genasi, dragonborn, etc. Perhaps the Powers-That-Be are completing a “list,” and in time, they’d go back to the gith.
That's part of what I love about Kemp's work. We never get to see Slaadi or Gith novelized, and he found a very effective and entertaining way to bring them to life within the context of his story. He also has a psion as one of his main characters, and I can't tell you how much I love that.
On that note, let me give a big shout out to Tim Pratt. "Venom in Her Veins" was an incredible book, and I had actually never heard of the derro until then. They are used very well, and I was amazed by how many interesting races can be found in the Underdark when drow aren't hogging the story. And the yuanti are an exciting race to read about (every bit as lovably devious as the drow). "House of Serpents" is one of my favorite FR trilogies. Please WOTC, more snake people! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2013 : 04:13:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Now, now. "Far Realm" appeared - in the best Giant Space Flea From Nowhere style, without meaningful connection to anything - when Bruce Cordell was sliding from brilliant development of Monstrous Arcana into meaningless "Let's add some hentacles... more hentacles... hmmm... what now? Ooh! I know! Some extra hentacles!". Aboleths first appeared before that.
Ahem. In FR sources there were mentions of aboleths lurking out of sight for ages and ages.
Indeed. Aboleth presence in the Realms goes back to 2E, at least.
Dwarves Deep, as I recall, contained the first reference for aboleth in the Realms.
quote:
Until the one-off that was the Sojourner, I don't recall a single reference to any of the gith races in the Realms. None since him, either.
As I said back on 27 June, there have been sporadic references to gith, like the githyanki, before the appearance of the Sojourner -- mostly in 2e/3e Underdark sources and the Ol' Grey Box.
Skullport and 3e's PGtF contain the only references that I can recall which mention githzerai in the Realms. |
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2013 : 23:27:15
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| I wonder if I should mention (again) my scroll about the Gith Races, and all the other Gith-related scrolls it links to, which I offered back earlier in this scroll ... |
[/Ayrik] |
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Topic |
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WHY are the GITH so rarely seen?
