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Plaguescarred
Learned Scribe
Canada
190 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Jun 2013 : 09:17:18
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In case you guys missed it, a new Wallpaper was released with the upcoming season of D&D Encounters: Search for the Diamond Staff and its a fantastic map of the Dalelands!
Its even available in different size and format!
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4wall/20130613
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Yan
Playtester |
Edited by - Plaguescarred on 13 Jun 2013 09:18:09
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2013 : 15:48:22
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The hills look better than other 4e maps. 
There are a few things I'm not jazzed about, but I'll shush and see where the thread goes. |
Edited by - xaeyruudh on 13 Jun 2013 17:26:07 |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2013 : 16:16:32
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It's a lovely map, but, despite being labeled 1479 Dalereckoning, this map is clearly not a 4th-Edition map of the Dalelands. For example, it still shows Ordulin as a city despite its destruction. It also shows Harrowdale Town which is now called New Velar.
It really is a shame that WotC didn't bother asking someone familiar with the 4E Dalelands to review the art order before it was sent to the cartographer. |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2013 : 17:23:19
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Hm.
Thought 1: The Dales have been reverted to their preplague status... huzzah!
Thought 2: Doesn't have the FR logo on it. It's not canon.
*sigh* |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2013 : 19:49:50
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quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh
Thought 2: Doesn't have the FR logo on it. It's not canon.
It's got FR locations, and is published by WotC. It's well-known that I'm no fan of the 15th Century Realms, but even I can't argue about this being canon. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2013 : 21:07:06
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What language are the notations in? Are they suppose to be Draconic or Espruar? |
I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches won’t fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2013 : 21:50:41
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Man, the gremlins have it in for me today. Second time I've had to retype a post.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It's got FR locations, and is published by WotC. It's well-known that I'm no fan of the 15th Century Realms, but even I can't argue about this being canon.
I'm not seriously trying to argue this point. I agree that it's reasonable to regard the map as intended-to-be-canon, and probably unreasonable not to, but... the NWN map has FR locations on it too, without being consistent with other Realms maps.
To the same extent that we can dismiss the NWN map as non-canon because it was made for a video game, we can also dismiss the Encounters map because it was made for Encounters. They were both drawn with a selection of features, and with some creative license.
The presence of the logo would mean that it's an official map of the Realms; without that, it could be another publisher's work or it could be homebrew or whatever else, but for whatever reason WotC isn't claiming that it's official.
*shrug* I just see excuses available everywhere, for those who want to rely on them. |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2013 : 21:58:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Bakra
What language are the notations in? Are they suppose to be Draconic or Espruar?
I'm looking at the campaign setting books, and I can say that they're not consistent with Espruar. However, Espruar seems to have changed between 2e and 3e, so it's possible that it changed again for 4e. |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2013 : 05:47:53
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First off: I like the map! The color reminds me of parchment and gives the map an authentic look.
As to the canonicity of the map: well, it's a mistake to regard the map as a canonical depiction of how the Realms is in 1479 DR without first understanding in what context the map was created.
In the Realms pretty much any map you can get your hands on will come nowhere close to the accuracy of a map drawn in the real world in the twenty-first century. There will be inaccuracies, to say the least.
And since the map appears to be a supplement to an adventure and appears in a form like something you'd give to your players as a handout, I think the map should not be regarded in the same way as a map out of a Realms sourcebook.
Unless or until a future sourcebook (or the Encounters adventure the map is tied to) indicates why Ordulin and Harrowdale Town were depicted as such on the map, it's best to treat the map as drawn by someone in the Realms--perhaps a sage or elderly cartographer--not up to date with what's happened.
Or perhaps the in-Realms cartographer included Ordulin because everyone still thinks of it being there, even if it is a ruin.
Or maybe a peddler took quill and ink to an old map and wrote in "1479 DR" before selling it to a bunch of adventurers.
Or perhaps a seller or maker of maps simply hasn't heard of Ordulin's destruction before the map was made.
But if the map is meant to be a canonical depiction, then this wouldn't be the first time a wrinkle has appeared that's in need of smoothing out. There are enough big brains around here that this shouldn't be a problem to fix. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2013 : 05:55:45
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| I found a separate page that has two download links: the first is the "Map of the Dalelands" that is the same as the one Plaguescarred linked to, while the other link takes the same map image and presents it as a player's handout, with notes written on it that appear to involve the adventure. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Plaguescarred
Learned Scribe
Canada
190 Posts |
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Tarlyn
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2013 : 12:09:32
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I thought WotC revealed last year that they commissioned a redone first edition map that would be used as a base for Sundering/post-Sundering maps. So, I don't think that the 4e map/expert would need to be consulted, it is clearly going to be different. Also, the inaccuracies could easily be cases of the unreliable narrator either producing the adventure, or that gave us information in the 4e FR campaign setting.
Edit: BTW the map looks amazing! I hope that is a preview of things to come. |
Tarlyn Embersun |
Edited by - Tarlyn on 14 Jun 2013 12:10:14 |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2013 : 15:42:28
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So on one hand, yea, it seems the blending of being set in 1479 and having features from earlier maps might be deliberate. Seems inconsistent of them to have 4e and 5e set in the same year, but I'm not complaining as it fits with what I think they should have been doing since 1e.
On the other hand, I don't like the unreliable narrator argument. That works fine (and in fact is desirable) for player handouts, but I think DM maps should be more objective.
Looks like support for the cautiously optimistic hope that they're not blowing anything up this time.
I was going to add that I'm really hoping they add some color to the setting and product maps, but I just realized I'm okay with coloring them myself. I do like the more hand-drawn look of this map. Doing the coloring by hand would add to the value of the map, for me. |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2013 : 17:29:00
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| The Sundering (which is actually now the Third Sundering, sigh) takes place sometime in the 1480s or 1490s. I believe Erin Evans mentioned that in her thread or one of her interviews. |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2013 : 14:35:28
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Its a nice looking map - I like the 'old school' feel it has.
It is possible that we are looking at a precursor to a 5e map, in which case we really don't know what is 'wrong' on this map. Names change and things get rebuilt.
So long as the coastlines don't change, and the port cities don't 'get-up and follow them', as happened in 4e... what an epic fail THAT was. 
"The coastlines all moved about 50 miles from where they were... ohhhh... and all the port cities are STLL port cities..." 
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh
Thought 2: Doesn't have the FR logo on it. It's not canon.
It's got FR locations, and is published by WotC. It's well-known that I'm no fan of the 15th Century Realms, but even I can't argue about this being canon.
'Canon', however, doesn't make it correct. See my response to Brian below...
Which is why I bill my maps as 'more canon then canon' - because the canon is often wrong (despite that sounding like an oxymoron, sadly, it often proves true, especially where maps are concerned).
quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
It's a lovely map, but, despite being labeled 1479 Dalereckoning, this map is clearly not a 4th-Edition map of the Dalelands. For example, it still shows Ordulin as a city despite its destruction. It also shows Harrowdale Town which is now called New Velar.
It really is a shame that WotC didn't bother asking someone familiar with the 4E Dalelands to review the art order before it was sent to the cartographer.
Your preachin' to the choir, brother... 
Its a HUGE problem when the people who have final say about everything know far less about the setting then they should... or that the ordinary fan does... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 17 Jun 2013 04:07:51 |
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New Map of the Dalelands
