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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36882 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Jun 2013 : 17:33:22
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Where does it say that Larloch has those items as his only possible contingency?
And "if magic cannot provide his desired protection, then no mundane means ever could"? Really? So if he was stuck in an area where his magic didn't function, a bit of armor wouldn't protect him against a dagger?
Besides, my point was that he may have contingencies that don't rely on being more powerful -- that does not preclude lesser magics used in creative and unexpected ways. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2013 : 17:48:26
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Where does it say that he made mundane contingencies either? You present speculations, while the lore has been clear in what it presents.
And Dagger? Seriously? How is that supposed to affect a being of pure shadowstuff?
You missed my point in other sources of magic. When, like the Imaskari, you have spent millennia perfecting arcane magic and having realized that the Weave and the Shadow Weave are not the only magical sources there is, then you must have sought somewhere else to tap whatever power source there exists.
And let us be realistic. What kind of mundane, nonmagical contingency exactly could Telamont use that would save his arse against Rivalen or any other bigger threat? |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 11 Jun 2013 17:58:38 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36882 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2013 : 18:57:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Where does it say that he made mundane contingencies either? You present speculations, while the lore has been clear in what it presents.
And Dagger? Seriously? How is that supposed to affect a being of pure shadowstuff?
You missed my point in other sources of magic. When, like the Imaskari, you have spent millennia perfecting arcane magic and having realized that the Weave and the Shadow Weave are not the only magical sources there is, then you must have sought somewhere else to tap whatever power source there exists.
And let us be realistic. What kind of mundane, nonmagical contingency exactly could Telamont use that would save his arse against Rivalen or any other bigger threat?
Oh, I don't know, maybe some of the things I've already mentioned?
Despite your frequent assertions, Telamont is not the biggest, baddest dude in all the Realms. He is not the most powerful, he is not the smartest, and he is not omniscient.
And about what the lore presents: by your logic, Telamont is always going commando. The lore does not say he wears underwear, and since you are maintaining that it can't happen if it's not specifically stated, then he always goes commando. Because it's obviously inconceivable that something about someone isn't written down somewhere.  |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2013 : 19:17:41
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Sigh. Where did I say Telamont is the “biggest, baddest” being in the world? In fact, I did say he’s hardly the most powerful. And how in Bane’s arse does having logical contingencies fall under the category of being the most powerful?
To be blunt, it’s rather pointless to discuss with someone about something that someone barely reads anything about. (Ever wonder why I usually limit my “inputs” in elfy topics/debates?) |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36882 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2013 : 20:04:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Sigh. Where did I say Telamont is the “biggest, baddest” being in the world? In fact, I did say he’s hardly the most powerful. And how in Bane’s arse does having logical contingencies fall under the category of being the most powerful?
Saying he doesn't need to worry about someone else becoming a deity because he's more powerful is a pretty clear statement that he is bigger and badder.
And no one said that logical contingencies are limited to the most powerful. What I have said -- repeatedly, now -- is that being powerful in one area does not mean that one's only potential contingencies are to be more powerful.
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
To be blunt, it’s rather pointless to discuss with someone about something that someone barely reads anything about. (Ever wonder why I usually limit my “inputs” in elfy topics/debates?)
Just because I haven't read every single book Telamont has appeared in, it doesn't mean I can't discuss whether or not something is reasonable. And it is not reasonable to assume that an intelligent being, who has had to deal with multiple threats over a very long period of time, would not have contingencies that consist of something other than "More BOOM!" It is also not reasonable to assume that something could not possibly exist, just because it wasn't written down. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 11 Jun 2013 20:04:39 |
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jordanz
Senior Scribe
556 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2013 : 07:49:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by jordanz
Personally I dont think any non divine being should be able to directly harm a lesser or greater level god....
Even Larloch...
Personally, I think otherwise. Gods, as the Netherese aptly put it, are just overpowered archwizards. And remember that some of them used to be mere mortals as well.
Not sure about that, else why the obsession by already over powerful wizards (ie Azuth, Szass, Vecna,Karsus) to achieve divinity?
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2013 : 08:41:13
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Maybe because it can be done, and if done right, the pay off is awesome. Taking Vecna out of the FR equation, of the examples you give, only Azuth "got it right". The rest got it badly wrong. That doesn't mean that it's something that deters those of power. The Realms has many examples of humans ascending to godhood - most of it hasn't been planned as such (Mystra/Midnight, Uthgar, Cyric, Kelemvor etc.) but some has (Velsharoon). Why not take the punt if you've got no other burning ambition?
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe
595 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2013 : 20:41:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
And how in Bane’s arse does having logical contingencies fall under the category of being the most powerful?
And for the ruler of an empire logical contingencies incluse such mundane things as a simple guards he can call upon. Shade has an army after all. |
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jordanz
Senior Scribe
556 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2013 : 03:01:32
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Maybe because it can be done, and if done right, the pay off is awesome. Taking Vecna out of the FR equation, of the examples you give, only Azuth "got it right". The rest got it badly wrong. That doesn't mean that it's something that deters those of power. The Realms has many examples of humans ascending to godhood - most of it hasn't been planned as such (Mystra/Midnight, Uthgar, Cyric, Kelemvor etc.) but some has (Velsharoon). Why not take the punt if you've got no other burning ambition?
-- George Krashos
Right but you prove my point. Divinity (if done right) must offer some tangible benefits over just remaining an over powerful wizard. Else why bother. |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2013 : 09:47:32
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Yep, take the Sojourner for example. One of the most powerfull humanoid beings we ever saw but in the end he died of a sickness. A god can die too as we have seen multiple times, but not of sickness or old age and he doesn't need a bottle to hold his soul if his body gets destroyed. So there are a lot of advantages besides raw power in becoming devine.
At least if you really want to live forever, which I got the impression the Sojourner didn't want. |
Edited by - _Jarlaxle_ on 13 Jun 2013 09:48:21 |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2013 : 16:38:50
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| :-P magical guards |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2013 : 17:17:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Sigh. Where did I say Telamont is the “biggest, baddest” being in the world? In fact, I did say he’s hardly the most powerful. And how in Bane’s arse does having logical contingencies fall under the category of being the most powerful?
Saying he doesn't need to worry about someone else becoming a deity because he's more powerful is a pretty clear statement that he is bigger and badder.
Sigh again. The being involved in the context where I said it is Rivalen and Rivalen alone. Just because Telamont need not worry about his son’s ascension to godling (which is pretty minor, by the way; Kesson Rel [from whom Rivalen stole one-third of divine essence] is even below a lesser deity) does not mean he need not to worry about every single being (quite more powerful than Rivalen) trying to ascend to godhood, because, again, he is hardly the most powerful archwizard there is. And if you cared to follow my earlier posts, I said Telamont deliberately allowed Rivalen to ascend. What kind of selfish archmage (who has spent his entire lifetime just to get and stay where he is) would do that without the assurance that it’s not going to endanger his position? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2013 : 17:28:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Mirtek
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
And how in Bane’s arse does having logical contingencies fall under the category of being the most powerful?
And for the ruler of an empire logical contingencies incluse such mundane things as a simple guards he can call upon. Shade has an army after all.
Let’s not forget the context I was referring to when I said that: Rivalen against Telamont. True, the entire army of Shade can stop Rivalen when they work in concert. And true, Telamont can summon them anywhere, anytime. They all answer to him in the first place. But if Rivalen (by logic) chooses to attack him in a fairly small, constricting space, like his throne room, for instance, no army would fit in there, and so he’d still be in real danger. In the recent excerpts of The Godborn, Rivalen easily outmatched Brennus and Hadrune, two of the higher archwizards in the city. So it would probably take a concerted effort of hundreds of Telamont’s lackeys just to scratch Rivalen’s skin, let alone kill. And if Telamont has no better contingencies in hand except his army, he’d probably be dead before he even utters the first word of command to summon them. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2013 : 17:44:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
To be blunt, it’s rather pointless to discuss with someone about something that someone barely reads anything about. (Ever wonder why I usually limit my “inputs” in elfy topics/debates?)
Just because I haven't read every single book Telamont has appeared in, it doesn't mean I can't discuss whether or not something is reasonable. And it is not reasonable to assume that an intelligent being, who has had to deal with multiple threats over a very long period of time, would not have contingencies that consist of something other than "More BOOM!" It is also not reasonable to assume that something could not possibly exist, just because it wasn't written down.
I see. So because it was not written, then it is possible that Elminster is a disfigured three-legged toad disguised as a human, Drizzt is a one-eyed hyena with three horns and manicured nails, Cale is a parasitic puss-emitting worm, and Laroch is the alter ego of Justine Bieber?
I already said the reasons why, in published fiction, Telamont has always relied on magic . . . I suppose I need not repeat myself. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36882 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2013 : 17:48:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Sigh. Where did I say Telamont is the “biggest, baddest” being in the world? In fact, I did say he’s hardly the most powerful. And how in Bane’s arse does having logical contingencies fall under the category of being the most powerful?
Saying he doesn't need to worry about someone else becoming a deity because he's more powerful is a pretty clear statement that he is bigger and badder.
Sigh again. The being involved in the context where I said it is Rivalen and Rivalen alone. Just because Telamont need not worry about his son’s ascension to godling (which is pretty minor, by the way; Kesson Rel [from whom Rivalen stole one-third of divine essence] is even below a lesser deity) does not mean he need not to worry about every single being (quite more powerful than Rivalen) trying to ascend to godhood, because, again, he is hardly the most powerful archwizard there is. And if you cared to follow my earlier posts, I said Telamont deliberately allowed Rivalen to ascend. What kind of selfish archmage (who has spent his entire lifetime just to get and stay where he is) would do that without the assurance that it’s not going to endanger his position?
You know, I'm beginning to wonder about this debate... Where have I said anything about not having assurances that he's going to protect his position? I've not even implied that he has no contingencies -- what I have been arguing is the nature of those contingencies. You must be aware of that, since you have responded to my comments.
I've said, more than once, that his contingencies are not necessarily simply being more powerful. How is this saying he has no contingencies?
Besides, is there any proof -- other than his word -- that Telamont could have stopped the ascension? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36882 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2013 : 17:52:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
To be blunt, it’s rather pointless to discuss with someone about something that someone barely reads anything about. (Ever wonder why I usually limit my “inputs” in elfy topics/debates?)
Just because I haven't read every single book Telamont has appeared in, it doesn't mean I can't discuss whether or not something is reasonable. And it is not reasonable to assume that an intelligent being, who has had to deal with multiple threats over a very long period of time, would not have contingencies that consist of something other than "More BOOM!" It is also not reasonable to assume that something could not possibly exist, just because it wasn't written down.
I see. So because it was not written, then it is possible that Elminster is a disfigured three-legged toad disguised as a human, Drizzt is a one-eyed hyena with three horns and manicured nails, Cale is a parasitic puss-emitting worm, and Laroch is the alter ego of Justine Bieber?
I already said the reasons why, in published fiction, Telamont has always relied on magic . . . I suppose I need not repeat myself.
Don't be ridiculous. All of those characters are discussed in canon, and your statements are in clear violation of that canon.
However, it is not stated in canon that Telamont has never and will never rely on anything other than magic. It is not canon, and it is not logical. Therefore, it is reasonable and not in violation of canon to assume Telly might have more that just magic up his sleeve. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2013 : 18:06:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Sigh. Where did I say Telamont is the “biggest, baddest” being in the world? In fact, I did say he’s hardly the most powerful. And how in Bane’s arse does having logical contingencies fall under the category of being the most powerful?
Saying he doesn't need to worry about someone else becoming a deity because he's more powerful is a pretty clear statement that he is bigger and badder.
Sigh again. The being involved in the context where I said it is Rivalen and Rivalen alone. Just because Telamont need not worry about his son’s ascension to godling (which is pretty minor, by the way; Kesson Rel [from whom Rivalen stole one-third of divine essence] is even below a lesser deity) does not mean he need not to worry about every single being (quite more powerful than Rivalen) trying to ascend to godhood, because, again, he is hardly the most powerful archwizard there is. And if you cared to follow my earlier posts, I said Telamont deliberately allowed Rivalen to ascend. What kind of selfish archmage (who has spent his entire lifetime just to get and stay where he is) would do that without the assurance that it’s not going to endanger his position?
You know, I'm beginning to wonder about this debate... Where have I said anything about not having assurances that he's going to protect his position? I've not even implied that he has no contingencies -- what I have been arguing is the nature of those contingencies. You must be aware of that, since you have responded to my comments.
I've said, more than once, that his contingencies are not necessarily simply being more powerful. How is this saying he has no contingencies?
Wonderful. You continue to twist my words. By assurance, I mean magical contingencies. And I already said why. You said above that not having to worry about someone else becoming a godling (a very minor one, I must add) would him look as though he’s the biggest, baddest being in the world. And that’s what I countered by above statement.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Besides, is there any proof -- other than his word -- that Telamont could have stopped the ascension?
How about the obvious? By not telling Rivalen the spell (that he learned [with a price] from Mephistopheles) that would enable him to absorb the divine essence. Or by preventing him by force if Rivalen still insisted on going to the site where Cale and Riven planned to kill Kesson Rel and take his divinity. He is, after all, far more superior in might than his son pre-ascension. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2013 : 18:14:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
To be blunt, it’s rather pointless to discuss with someone about something that someone barely reads anything about. (Ever wonder why I usually limit my “inputs” in elfy topics/debates?)
Just because I haven't read every single book Telamont has appeared in, it doesn't mean I can't discuss whether or not something is reasonable. And it is not reasonable to assume that an intelligent being, who has had to deal with multiple threats over a very long period of time, would not have contingencies that consist of something other than "More BOOM!" It is also not reasonable to assume that something could not possibly exist, just because it wasn't written down.
I see. So because it was not written, then it is possible that Elminster is a disfigured three-legged toad disguised as a human, Drizzt is a one-eyed hyena with three horns and manicured nails, Cale is a parasitic puss-emitting worm, and Laroch is the alter ego of Justine Bieber?
I already said the reasons why, in published fiction, Telamont has always relied on magic . . . I suppose I need not repeat myself.
Don't be ridiculous. All of those characters are discussed in canon, and your statements are in clear violation of that canon.
However, it is not stated in canon that Telamont has never and will never rely on anything other than magic. It is not canon, and it is not logical. Therefore, it is reasonable and not in violation of canon to assume Telly might have more that just magic up his sleeve.
Don’t be ridiculous either. It was never mentioned in canon that Telamont ever relied on nonmagical contingencies. You presented something that is far from what established lore indicates. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 13 Jun 2013 18:30:25 |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2013 : 18:58:39
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| Am going to an ass and say, is it really worth arguing over to this much of a fine point ? Especially when it has nothing to do with the original post? |
Edited by - silverwolfer on 13 Jun 2013 18:59:54 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36882 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2013 : 19:42:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Wonderful. You continue to twist my words. By assurance, I mean magical contingencies. And I already said why. You said above that not having to worry about someone else becoming a godling (a very minor one, I must add) would him look as though he’s the biggest, baddest being in the world. And that’s what I countered by above statement.
That was not at all twisting your words.
And your assertion that he has no contingencies beyond being more powerful is very much as a statement that he's bigger and badder than a deity.
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
How about the obvious? By not telling Rivalen the spell (that he learned [with a price] from Mephistopheles) that would enable him to absorb the divine essence. Or by preventing him by force if Rivalen still insisted on going to the site where Cale and Riven planned to kill Kesson Rel and take his divinity. He is, after all, far more superior in might than his son pre-ascension.
Okay, so he perhaps could not have stopped it. And he was more powerful than his son was before -- which was not a point I was contesting. That still doesn't mean he remains more powerful. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36882 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2013 : 19:47:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Don’t be ridiculous either. It was never mentioned in canon that Telamont ever relied on nonmagical contingencies. You presented something that is far from what established lore indicates.
Not at all.We don't have every single thing that Telamont has ever done written down. We don't have anything at all that says Telamont has never done anything that didn't involve magic. And simple common sense would indicate that it's pure folly to not have multiple contingencies, especially for a ruler who has existed for contingencies.
So it is not ridiculous to assume he might have something other than magic up his sleeve. It's ridiculous to assume otherwise. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2013 : 20:03:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Wonderful. You continue to twist my words. By assurance, I mean magical contingencies. And I already said why. You said above that not having to worry about someone else becoming a godling (a very minor one, I must add) would him look as though he’s the biggest, baddest being in the world. And that’s what I countered by above statement.
That was not at all twisting your words.
And your assertion that he has no contingencies beyond being more powerful is very much as a statement that he's bigger and badder than a deity.
Your exact words: “Telamont is not the biggest, baddest dude in all the Realms.”
Again, how does being more powerful than a godling, who’s lesser than even a lesser god, make one the “biggest, baddest dude in all the Realms”? Vosthym could have easily swatted Rivalen like a fly had he been alive still. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2013 : 20:07:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Don’t be ridiculous either. It was never mentioned in canon that Telamont ever relied on nonmagical contingencies. You presented something that is far from what established lore indicates.
Not at all.We don't have every single thing that Telamont has ever done written down. We don't have anything at all that says Telamont has never done anything that didn't involve magic. And simple common sense would indicate that it's pure folly to not have multiple contingencies, especially for a ruler who has existed for contingencies.
Simple common sense would indicate that a being of pure magic would rely on multiple magical contingencies. Magic never ends. When a particular source of it is cut, one can tap on another if he knows how. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 13 Jun 2013 20:09:13 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36882 Posts |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2013 : 03:30:13
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Glad you realized that. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2013 : 08:03:17
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| *smacks Dennis with his ratttan stick * Go make your own thread and bicker |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2013 : 13:42:03
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quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
Yep, take the Sojourner for example. One of the most powerfull humanoid beings we ever saw but in the end he died of a sickness. A god can die too as we have seen multiple times, but not of sickness or old age and he doesn't need a bottle to hold his soul if his body gets destroyed. So there are a lot of advantages besides raw power in becoming devine.
At least if you really want to live forever, which I got the impression the Sojourner didn't want.
Vhostym had lived long enough. He was even older than some of the current greater gods. And he was tired. He just wanted a “grand exit,” thus the Rain of Fire. A being like him who destroyed dragons and planets with his own hands when he was young is someone a god would think twice to mess with.
Note that even the gods don’t (or cannot) live forever. Theirs is hardly a peaceful society where they all live and work in harmony. It’s a dog eats dog society. One false move, and a god can get subsumed with little to no hope of possible return. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe
489 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2013 : 15:53:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Sigh. Where did I say Telamont is the “biggest, baddest” being in the world? In fact, I did say he’s hardly the most powerful. And how in Bane’s arse does having logical contingencies fall under the category of being the most powerful?
Saying he doesn't need to worry about someone else becoming a deity because he's more powerful is a pretty clear statement that he is bigger and badder.
Sigh again. The being involved in the context where I said it is Rivalen and Rivalen alone. Just because Telamont need not worry about his son’s ascension to godling (which is pretty minor, by the way; Kesson Rel [from whom Rivalen stole one-third of divine essence] is even below a lesser deity) does not mean he need not to worry about every single being (quite more powerful than Rivalen) trying to ascend to godhood, because, again, he is hardly the most powerful archwizard there is. And if you cared to follow my earlier posts, I said Telamont deliberately allowed Rivalen to ascend. What kind of selfish archmage (who has spent his entire lifetime just to get and stay where he is) would do that without the assurance that it’s not going to endanger his position?
I think it's more simple than that, Dennis. Shar is the goddess of loss and despair (for all intents and purposes, the embodiment of nihilism). From what I've seen, she never allows her followers to lead in any society. Some have high positions in order to maximize their ability to cause misery. However, her tenets explicitly forbid improving your lot in life, unless Shar commands it for her purposes.
In all likelihood, Telamont knows that Shar would never allow Rivalen to rule. Shar needs a strong empire of Netheril to engineer the apocalypse, and Rivalen must also direct the agents of her faith in other places. Practically, he has too many responsibilities to also run the empire well. As I recall, Telamont implied in the Twilight War trilogy that he could achieve some level of godhood, but chooses not to. This means that he probably has knowledge of some ancient spells (or has invented some) that even a demigod should fear.
That said, Telamont probably has a number of contingencies that make him no less difficult to kill than Rivalen. Even Halaster will likely be back in 5e, and his soul was shattered into thousands of pieces. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2013 : 11:46:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Lilianviaten
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Sigh. Where did I say Telamont is the “biggest, baddest” being in the world? In fact, I did say he’s hardly the most powerful. And how in Bane’s arse does having logical contingencies fall under the category of being the most powerful?
Saying he doesn't need to worry about someone else becoming a deity because he's more powerful is a pretty clear statement that he is bigger and badder.
Sigh again. The being involved in the context where I said it is Rivalen and Rivalen alone. Just because Telamont need not worry about his son’s ascension to godling (which is pretty minor, by the way; Kesson Rel [from whom Rivalen stole one-third of divine essence] is even below a lesser deity) does not mean he need not to worry about every single being (quite more powerful than Rivalen) trying to ascend to godhood, because, again, he is hardly the most powerful archwizard there is. And if you cared to follow my earlier posts, I said Telamont deliberately allowed Rivalen to ascend. What kind of selfish archmage (who has spent his entire lifetime just to get and stay where he is) would do that without the assurance that it’s not going to endanger his position?
This means that he probably has knowledge of some ancient spells (or has invented some) that even a demigod should fear.
That said, Telamont probably has a number of contingencies that make him no less difficult to kill than Rivalen.
That is exactly my point above. He would not allow his son to ascend to godhood (no matter how minor) without having the assurance that such move would never endanger his current position as the supreme ruler of Shade.
He owed Shar and Rivalen for their survival during the harsh years in the Plane of Shadow. But he would not allow either to stop him from carrying out his ambition, that is, to expand the new Netheril Empire. He even once asked Rivalen if he was the right man for the job of stopping the Shadowstorm, knowing that such catastrophe was initiated by Shar. His command ran counter to the will of Shar, but he still gave it. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe
595 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2013 : 20:41:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
That is exactly my point above. He would not allow his son to ascend to godhood (no matter how minor) without having the assurance that such move would never endanger his current position as the supreme ruler of Shade.
Or at least believing he has such an assurance.
He wouldn't be the first, especially not the first archmage, to finally find his hubris getting the better of him.
Thinking that his assurance would work when contemplating what might become of Rivalen and later seeing what really became of him are two different cups of tea
The excerpt laid bare his inner thoughts for us and he was anything but sure that he was still in total control |
Edited by - Mirtek on 16 Jun 2013 20:43:04 |
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how did Mephistopheles benefit from Mask Div Shard
