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jordanz
Senior Scribe
556 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Jun 2013 : 22:23:29
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Or would that seem totally out of character for him?
It seems like most archmages is the realms have at one time played the role of a mentor or for the less "goodly" inclined master...
Larloch is so powerful that another archmage could easily fill that role.
Yes I know he already has dozens of liches (and other powerful undead) under him, but I tend to think they are little more than slaves.
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1885 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2013 : 23:55:51
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I can't fathom any reason why he would take on an apprentice. As you say, he already has numerous liches (of great power I might add) that sort of fill that role. The kinds of things that Larloch is working on would consume far too much of his time to ever consider taking time out to properly instruct another mage. At best, he may share knowledge with someone when it meshes with his personal goals or when the other mage has something he wants or is willing to perform some service(s) for him.
Also, as I see it, a wizard of Larloch's scope in the campaign (yes I know our true knowledge of that scope is scant at best) becoming a teacher would somehow diminish him in my eyes. He's simply not meant to take on such a role. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2013 : 00:28:07
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To put it fairly we will use a sliding scale.
Elimister, may take someone on like blackstaff as an apprentice, black staff would take someone like the head wizard of corymer as his apprentice , and the head wizard would take on someone who is probably level 10 or something in a 3.5 scope.
Using this scale, Larloch would probably take someone as powerful as Sazzem Taz , as an "apprentice". If we had a fan boy/girl fight between Elimister and Larloch, am honestly not sure that Elimster would win. |
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BadCatMan
Senior Scribe
Australia
407 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2013 : 02:08:02
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Probably not since he was a mortal. I've read that taking on apprentices is largely a matter for mid-level wizards, those who still did need a bit of help with their work.
In fact, throughout his history, Larloch has apparently displayed a pathological need to control others to serve him. The Death Moon Orb to charm and dominate members of the court of Jiksidur, binding the liches of Warlock's Crypt to serve him (presumably using the Orb), and geasing and cursing lackeys to do his quests:
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Larloch
Having an apprentice would mean giving that person too much independence or status for Larloch. |
BadCatMan, B.Sc. (Hons), M.Sc.
Scientific technical editor
Head DM of the Realms of Adventure play-by-post community
Administrator of the Forgotten Realms Wiki |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2013 : 03:28:14
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Too expensive. No one can afford it.
Seriously, though, he does not need one. Well, unless you can call those lich servitors "apprentices." |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2013 : 05:54:59
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| I think he would but only if someone like Mystra "asked" him to do it. |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2013 : 06:54:15
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| Larloch , has a huge respect for the Goddess of Magic and those that follow her. So that is very possible. |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2013 : 08:11:46
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quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer
Elimister, may take someone on like blackstaff as an apprentice, black staff would take someone like the head wizard of corymer as his apprentice
Thats not true. Elminster and Kelben both had many young and inexpirienced apprentices. They take someone if they see the potential in him to achieve great things for the good of the people.
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe
485 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2013 : 09:52:20
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quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer
Elimister, may take someone on like blackstaff as an apprentice, black staff would take someone like the head wizard of corymer as his apprentice
Thats not true. Elminster and Kelben both had many young and inexpirienced apprentices. They take someone if they see the potential in him to achieve great things for the good of the people.
It's more a case that they are following Mystra's edicts by spreading and promoting magic. |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2513 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2013 : 21:49:28
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| There were mentions of Larloch's apprentices. About the sort you would expect (liches, mostly under magical bindings). For that matter, Szass Tam was his sort-of-student, even if not long term one. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6689 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2013 : 00:40:39
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He took on Manshoon (#?) as an "apprentice" following the 'Awakening of the Clones' (TM)[keep away George Lucas]. See "Cloak & Dagger".
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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BadCatMan
Senior Scribe
Australia
407 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2013 : 05:34:06
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| I'm curious: where does it say that Mansoon is Larloch's apprentice? All I could find in Cloak & Dagger was that Manshoon(s) bought sanctuary from Larloch, presumably using Warlock's Crypt as a hideout. |
BadCatMan, B.Sc. (Hons), M.Sc.
Scientific technical editor
Head DM of the Realms of Adventure play-by-post community
Administrator of the Forgotten Realms Wiki |
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Darsson Spellmaker
Seeker
56 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2013 : 08:32:24
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I think Larloch would be willing to tutor someone in magic, but the apprentice would have to pay for their tutoring.
Not with gold or gems, but with ancient artifacts or Netherese magic.
Thus, I think Larloch's apprentices would never be untrained young boys, just starting out on the path of wizardry.
They would always be experienced mages, who maybe were lucky enough to get their hands on ancient spells or magic, and knowing the value of such would be sufficient to pay for an education under one of the greatest wizards in existence.
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"Know, O mages, that there is learning, and there is wisdom, and they are very far from being the same thing."--Azuth the High One, Utterances from the Altar: Collected Verbal Manifestations of the Divine and Most Holy Lord of Spells (holy chapbook, assembled by anonymous priests of Azuth circa 1358 DR)
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2013 : 09:01:50
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Has Larloch ever been known as the sort of mage who likes to teach or take on apprentices?
If yes, then perhaps Larloch found that part of himself an annoyance or weakness, but as he's totally awesome he found another use for it.
So he removed that part of his mind and personality and inserted it into the mind of a living host that Larloch long ago took over.
This host eagerly takes on apprentices, teaches and tutors them to become great mages and then Larloch comes along when the time is right and turns them into his servants. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2013 : 09:44:50
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Szass Tam was his sort-of-student, even if not long term one.
Where does this ome from?
quote:
Originally posted by Darsson Spellmaker
They would always be experienced mages, who maybe were lucky enough to get their hands on ancient spells or magic, and knowing the value of such would be sufficient to pay for an education under one of the greatest wizards in existence.
Or he could just take it from them. |
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2013 : 10:33:14
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Not so Jarlaxle. Larloch can be reasoned with and if you have something to offer that he values I dont see why he would not want to trade with the mage in question.
A good example is Szass Tam who procured a mantle of sorts for Larloch. Larloch could have sent any one of his lich servitors or vampire lords serving him to acquire it but Szass Tam did so and he traded with Larloch amicable enough. |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2013 : 11:11:03
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Szass Tam is a mighty lich himself with a lot of resources under his command. Sure Larloch is much mightier but just taking it from Tam (who I guess took precautions before going to Larloch) was probably more effort then just trading with him.
If a common adventurer (arch)mage goes to Larloch with an interesting artifact this might be very diffrent |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2013 : 12:04:36
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The question is... Who would or could take Larloch on as an apprentice??? Srinshee or Ioulaum or perhaps Arthindol the terraseer??
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1158 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2013 : 12:19:42
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| The Srinshee wouldn't deal with Larloch unless she had to, let alone take him as an apprentice and the Terraseer would only do it if it somehow furthered his 'Netherese Experiment', which he's still apparently working on. However, as one of the few people to have forseen the Spellplague much prior to the event itself, he might decide not to bother taking any apprentices. As for Ioulaum, Larloch would probably have to go to him as Ioulaum can't really come to Larloch. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12194 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2013 : 13:42:45
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quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
Szass Tam is a mighty lich himself with a lot of resources under his command. Sure Larloch is much mightier but just taking it from Tam (who I guess took precautions before going to Larloch) was probably more effort then just trading with him.
If a common adventurer (arch)mage goes to Larloch with an interesting artifact this might be very diffrent
Lets also not forget.... Larloch got something from Tam and he gave Tam a cursed artifact.... um, that was probably a devilish scheme to curse Tam without the Zulkir of Necromancy knowing it. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2513 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2013 : 13:48:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Darsson Spellmaker
I think Larloch would be willing to tutor someone in magic, but the apprentice would have to pay for their tutoring.
Not with gold or gems, but with ancient artifacts or Netherese magic.[...] and knowing the value of such would be sufficient to pay for an education under one of the greatest wizards in existence.
He gave or lent some artifacts to Szass Tam.
But then, it may be more a case of an ambitious lich willing to conduct far away some experiment Larloch is not insane enough to try himself or allow anywhere near his lair. 
quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Szass Tam was his sort-of-student, even if not long term one.
Where does this ome from?
Hmm... They don't call it so, or mentioned swapping spells as such. Technically, these two struck a deal where Szass Tam procured a few items Larloch wanted and was given some in exchange. Now, Szass Tam walked out of the Crypt with some really shiny toys, some of Larloch's making. Death Moon Orb and others. But here's a question: could he even know they all exist, let alone are there? If not, essentially he accepted what Larloch wanted him to do.
quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
If a common adventurer (arch)mage goes to Larloch with an interesting artifact this might be very diffrent
If a common adventurer or even a slightly naive archmage goes to Larloch, he may or may not live long enough to touch the doorbell, let alone tell what he wants there. A lot of these (including Red Wizards) tried to rob Larloch before Szass Tam's visit.
Again, some Manshoon clone(s) visited him and survived. Volo's Guide to the Sword Coast mentions adventurers who were allowed to go away - with a "little" task. All in all, it seems that Larloch thinks anyone walking into his home either is going to try and be useful for him, or they have no business there, and whoever can't survive run-in with a few mindless undead isn't worth his time either way. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2013 : 14:23:46
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Larloch would 'take on' an apprentice.
In fact, I can't think of anyone he wouldn't 'take on'.
But seriously, I think all of those Liches (and vamps) beneath him ARE apprentices - we've just never been given much detail on them. There probably are a few famous ones that have 'gone off on their own', but we may not know they trained under Larloch (IIRC, that 'frost mage' that hated Khelben - the one that started that Ruckus with Halester - was an apprentice of Larloch at some point... or am I remembering that wrong?)
I believe he was a major player in Blackstaff.
Anyhow, I wouldn't be surprised if Elminster hadn't trained under him for a time. Elmintser has either trained, or been trained by, nearly all mages of note in the past thousand years. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 05 Jun 2013 14:24:30 |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1158 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2013 : 14:33:15
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| I've never read that Priamon "Frostrune" Rakesk was ever tutored by Larloch. It's not mentioned who his master was while he lived in Waterdeep, but after he was banished he spent about 30 years solidly studying magic by himself in a hidden lair in the Snowflake Mountains. Then, after he joined the Twisted Rune, he was briefly tutored by Bhagenn the Crimson and then by Jhaniloth Puiral. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2013 : 14:40:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
(IIRC, that 'frost mage' that hated Khelben - the one that started that Ruckus with Halester - was an apprentice of Larloch at some point... or am I remembering that wrong?)
Priamon "Frostrune" Rakesk was a former student of Khelben, not Larloch.
In Blackstaff, Larloch was never mentioned, AFAIR. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 05 Jun 2013 14:53:42 |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1158 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2013 : 14:55:34
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quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo
It's not mentioned who his master was while he lived in Waterdeep
Never read Blackstaff but apparently that's where it's revealed that Khelben was his tutor. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2013 : 15:02:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Priamon "Frostrune" Rakesk was a former student of Khelben, not Larloch.
This
And I still can't imagine Larloch as someone who tutors other. In my eyes his liches are just minions for him. But Markus is right that we know to little about him and its all speculation. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2013 : 15:12:22
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quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo
quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo
It's not mentioned who his master was while he lived in Waterdeep
Never read Blackstaff but apparently that's where it's revealed that Khelben was his tutor.
Yes, and just your luck, I keep notes on it:
quote:
From chapter 23, pp. 212-213 of Blackstaff by Steven Schend:
Raegar thought a moment. Shuddering as he conjured up the memories of the past night, he said, “All of his spells were cold. Bitter, biting cold. I’ve not met many undead, and never any liches before him, but the air grew chilled like Auril’s kiss near him.
Tsarra stepped into the room, her stride confident and quick. She said, “Of course it did. We face Priamon Rakesk, traitor in exile and former Tower apprentice.”
Laeral grimaced as she said, “The Frostrune.”
And this:
quote:
From chapter 26, p. 235 of the same book:
“No,” Khelben gasped, gripping the lich’s robes. “You can’t possibly dare to wake—”
“Enough!” Priamon Rakesk’s anger seemed to fuel the harness on his torso. Its magical pulse shoved everyone flat against the walls with a surge of crimson power. “I dare much, Master.”
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Every beginning has an end. |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2013 : 15:24:13
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I think that if it was beneficial for Larloch or fitted his schemes, he would indeed teach others or have them be apprentices...
Btw... do we know from where Larloch leaned his magic? I don’t recall him being mentioned in Netherill boxed set?
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2013 : 15:34:38
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Actually, he was mentioned in the introduction, page 6, the part where Szass Tam asked him to tell the tale of fallen Netheril . . . He was also briefly mentioned in the “Time Conduit” section on page 13. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 05 Jun 2013 15:36:41 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2013 : 15:41:16
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| Okay, thanks for the clarification. I guess I had somehow assumed he ran to Larloch after he left Khelben (not sure where I came up with that - maybe I confused the Snowflakes with Troll Hills somehow...) |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2013 : 15:51:18
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That’s okay, MT. You probably read it in some homebrew or conjectures in a thread or two here at the ‘Keep. I myself misremember some lore sometimes. That’s why it always pays off to have your notes handy, just in case. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Would Larloch ever take on an apprentice?
