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Taliesen
Acolyte
9 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Jun 2013 : 18:11:06
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I'm currently playing a rogue who is starting to develop into a Shadowdancer, but I haven't been able to find out a whole lot of information regarding how they fit into Realmslore. The character I am playing is basically a totally impartial 'Justiciar' of Hoar, with a thieving background. While he has renounced crime and dedicated himself to justice, he's still fine with using those skills for his new purposes.
How do Shadowdancers tie into the Plane of Shadow, if at all? I'm very interested in the whole concept of this extremely, almost supernaturally stealthy warrior, but I'm trying to figure out how to act the part. Another interesting fact is that this character recently, for a brief time, was transported into the Plane of Shadow, for reasons he and his comapnions do not yet fully understand. This just happens to coincide with his long planned development into a Shadowdancer, and I'm wondering how I might tie the two together. Most of the material I've been able to find is more focused on the mechanics, which I have a firm grip on, but I'm hoping that someone here might be able to point me in the direction of some 'fluff' that is either Realms-centric, or at least fits with the Realms. I appreciate any help.
- Longtime Lurker
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2013 : 18:55:13
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Bernsteins class chronicles article on shadowcasters introduced Demarchs Folly, an intriguing organisation that has a strong focus on shadow magic in all its forms.
Personally I'd tie organised shadowdancers to Sharran and Maskarran sects of assassins and master burglars. It would be awesome if they have some sort of interregional organisation who manipulates or directly commands shadowdancers into furthering Shar or Mask's aims. The occasional shadowdancer could be trained by Baravar Cloakshadows and Brandorbaris' clergy, but I would say that highest level secrets of 'the Shadow Dance's origin are only known by Shar.
Most shadowdancers are lonely individuals that are self trained, though. They only need to 'train the steps' with their own shadows as their 'silent mentor'. After several levels of training their own shadows can act on their own, and will instruct the aspirant shadowdancer by showing shadowsteps of diversion and distraction. At the highest levels a Shadowdancers shadow can become fully independant and will directly speak to and give advice to their masters.
Perhaps an undead shadow can teach a mortal 'to shadow dance'. Such a mortal needs to control that shadows malignent intent for long enough to unlock the basic principles of the shadow step. Perhaps this is the way the Sharran and Maskarran clergy train multiple shadowdancers: by Planar Binding a shadow into a teacher role for their specialists.
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My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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BadCatMan
Senior Scribe
Australia
401 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2013 : 03:45:25
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Shadowdancers actually use a form of shadow magic:
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Shadow_magic
Which isn't quite the same as Shadow Weave Magic, and has a longer history in the Realms than SWM or the Tome of Magic for 3.5 edition. Nor is it necessarily closely linked with Shar or Mask. It's Weave-based magic.
One Shadowdancer in the Realms is Sahbuti Shanardanda of Amn (FRCS 3e) of the Dark Moon monk order of Shar.
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BadCatMan, B.Sc. (Hons), M.Sc.
Scientific technical editor
Head DM of the Realms of Adventure play-by-post community
Administrator of the Forgotten Realms Wiki |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2388 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2013 : 09:26:06
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"X in the Realms"? They originated in the Realms. 
Wizards and Rogues of the Realms (1995), Shadow Walker kit, with shadowy stealth and minor spellcasting abilities.
quote:
Originally posted by Taliesen
but I haven't been able to find out a whole lot of information regarding how they fit into Realmslore.
IIRC, used to stick to weakly tied secret societies where they can get special training. Obvious suspicions in association with Mask (or Vhaerun), let alone Shar, is not a great incentive to advertise such abilities, for one. Especially in cases when it's so.
quote:
How do Shadowdancers tie into the Plane of Shadow, if at all? [...] this character recently, for a brief time, was transported into the Plane of Shadow
Since the whole point of a Shadowdancer is swinging back and forth over the Shadow Fringe, they won't exactly prosper when pulled in the plane's depth. Though probably will be still better off than someone who got no clue at all about the place. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Taliesen
Acolyte
9 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2013 : 16:58:08
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You've all been a huge help so far. The information you have given is leading me to more stuff, and giving me some great ideas. The Forgotten Realms Wiki's article didn't make any mention of exactly how the Shadowdancer's powers function, and the books I've looked at were more focused on game mechanics and very genericized lore.
I did not realize that Shadowdancers existed in 2nd Edition (even if under another name), or that they had their origins in Realmslore. Knowing that they are tied to Shadow Magic is also helpful. I do appreciate the info, and if anyone else has anything else to share, feel free. |
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BadCatMan
Senior Scribe
Australia
401 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2013 : 02:21:13
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| That's because there isn't anything about how a Shadowdancer functions, specifically. But they use shadow magic, which uses the Weave to channel powers from the Plane of Shadow. At that wiki article, I didn't go into any detail from Tome of Magic about how core shadow magic functions, but there is some fluff for it in the book. Shadow magic works on the principles of sympathetic magic (like affects like; affect the shadow of a thing to affect the thing itself) and reflection (for every action, there is a reaction; give and take). |
BadCatMan, B.Sc. (Hons), M.Sc.
Scientific technical editor
Head DM of the Realms of Adventure play-by-post community
Administrator of the Forgotten Realms Wiki |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2013 : 15:50:36
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One should be wary of putting too much stock in the FR Wiki. We can extrapolate taht shadowdancers use shadow magic, sure, but it's not necessarily tied to the Weave. Plenty of shadowdancers were around before the Weave fell apart and still have their powers a century later, such as Lady Ilira Nathalan (The Fox-at-Twilight), a character in my novels. It's possible the Weave/Shadow Weave's collapse caused a disruption in their abilities, but if so, they came back and work as well if not better.
As to whether they are tied to the plane of shadow, well, some more tightly than others. I would hazard a guess that all shadow magic connects to the plane of shadow on at least some level, just as all fire magic connects to the plane of fire, death magic connects to the negative energy plane, etc. But that doesn't necessarily mean that a shadowdancer is channeling the plane of shadow or hopping into it and back.
The shadowdancers in my work (and certain spells, such as shadow walking, etc.) skirt or actually journey through the shadow reflection of the mortal world. Whether this is the "plane of shadow" (what 4e calls "the Shadowfell") or not is a matter of some speculation.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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BadCatMan
Senior Scribe
Australia
401 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2013 : 16:28:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
One should be wary of putting too much stock in the FR Wiki.
We can and we should, as otherwise it won't work.
I wrote the entire piece and vouch for its accuracy. I picked out all references I could find to "shadow magic", as a distinct form of magic separate from the Shadow Weave and other shadow-stuff, to compile the article.
Races of Faerun page 103 makes a strong link between shadowdancers and shadow magic. Tome of Magic page 110 marks it as a lesser form of shadow magic. Shadow magic by default utilizes the Weave, as stated in the Class Chronicles series. Ergo, there's a very good probability that a shadowdancer uses Weave-based shadow magic of some form. It's not the only possibility, of course, but anything's possible for the PC. |
BadCatMan, B.Sc. (Hons), M.Sc.
Scientific technical editor
Head DM of the Realms of Adventure play-by-post community
Administrator of the Forgotten Realms Wiki |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2013 : 20:24:21
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"A very good possibility," aye, but not "definite fact."
I absolutely acknowledge your work and am glad you did your research. But no matter how well constructed your article is, unless WotC (or Ed) declares that it is canonically accurate, one must take it with a grain of salt. Your work may be wonderful, but the FR wiki is full of a lot of less than wonderful research, some of it wildly inaccurate.
I did not mean to invalidate your hypotheses, but only to point out that it is a "hypothesis," not a fact. I'd like to suggest--as you acknowledge--that "[Weave-based shadowdancing is] not the only possibility."
A couple more notes:
I have given you at least one canonical example of a shadowdancer whose power is not tied to the Weave. Indeed, the Fox-at-Twilight's shadowdancing does not know and has never derived from the Weave. There are other shadowdancers in my books too, but for the sake of avoiding spoilers or breaking NDA, I can comment no further.
Tome of Magic, while canonical, is not a REALMS source. It is describing how magic functions generally in the D&D universe, but each individual world/plane has its own quirks.
I'm not sure if "shadow magic by default utilizes the Weave" (I think that's as much as to say that pre-Spellplague, *all magic* by default utilizes the Weave, though there are plenty of exceptions), but I do know that a great many historical practitioners of shadow magic drew on the SHADOW Weave, not the Weave.
And of course, practitioners of shadow magic in general and shadow dancing in specific do NOT draw on the Weave in the post-Spellplague world, where the Weave does not exist (at least not in a form most mortals can draw on).
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2013 : 22:15:07
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Eric, are you making the argument that shadowdancing is closely linked to the shadow weave? 'Cause I can totally go with that. It seems fitting and shadow weave lore needs more love.
It would be awesome if we could see more lore on shadow dancer troupes in the realms. I suspect that shadowdancers are not that unknown to common folk, because if travelling troupes of shadow dancers go from court to marketplace entertaining people their arcobatics would probably be memorable at the least. Shadow steps allow for impressive coordinated shadowdances, accented by flourishes of acrobatics, and a high level shadowdancer always has a dancing partner in his or her own shadow. Some of these shadowdancers can really put the show in shadow. (sorry for the cringe-inducing pun) |
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2013 : 00:16:59
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BCM is the one making that argument, not me. I'm just saying that I think it's quite reasonable.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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BadCatMan
Senior Scribe
Australia
401 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2013 : 01:56:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
BCM is the one making that argument, not me. I'm just saying that I think it's quite reasonable.
No, I'm not. I'm reporting that Eytan Bernstein's "Class Chronicles: Shadowcasters" article made "shadow magic" and "Shadow Weave magic" two different, unrelated, but similar forms of magic. A shadow magic user could well discover and choose to use the Shadow Weave for her shadow magic, but that is not shadow magic's default setting. Weave magic is, as mentioned in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting for 3rd edition, page 55. Shadowdancers use something closely related to shadow magic or shadow magic itself, as implied in canon (Races of Faerun) and core (Tome of Magic) sources. The core interpretation of shadow magic as Shadow Weave magic has been overridden by two official Realms sources. That's correct as of 1374 DR.
Therefore, it is a canonical fact that, prior to the Spellplague, a regular Shadowdancer most likely uses Weave-based shadow magic or some kind of lesser shadow magic (that is, regular magic with shadows), particularly Tethyrian Shadowdancers. We apparently only disagree on the extent or are referring to different eras.
I don't know Fox-at-Twilight, I'm afraid, as I've not read those novels. My focus was on shadow magic in general, to provide some background for a shadowcaster PC in my game.
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I absolutely acknowledge your work and am glad you did your research. But no matter how well constructed your article is, unless WotC (or Ed) declares that it is canonically accurate, one must take it with a grain of salt. Your work may be wonderful, but the FR wiki is full of a lot of less than wonderful research, some of it wildly inaccurate.
My article is canonically accurate because it accurately states what appears in canon sources. References and page numbers are provided for users to check for themselves. If one disagrees with my interpretation, then they can freely edit the article to clarify the point or post on its Talk page to discuss it. Or they can add new information. We really welcome that. That's the purpose and very definition of a good wiki article.
As I've explained in this thread:
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=17833
The wiki has a largely new membership, has moved away from the bad old days, and for over the last year-and-a-half at least we've been policing new work and instigating new policies to improve the wiki, while cleaning up and correcting the old problems. Please don't pre-judge our new, good work on the basis of the old, bad stuff. |
BadCatMan, B.Sc. (Hons), M.Sc.
Scientific technical editor
Head DM of the Realms of Adventure play-by-post community
Administrator of the Forgotten Realms Wiki |
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2013 : 17:27:19
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While I like to think of the Class Chronicles as Canon, and I guess to a certain extent they are, one important thing to keep in mind is that those were written specifically for 3.X mechanics. As far as I'm aware, the Shadow Weave was affected in the same way as the weave in the transition to 4e. I don't know what edition you're planning and 5e Realms is still a ways off.
I've always viewed shadow magic is specifically relating to the manipulation of magical and mundane shadows and shadowy-energy for a variety of effects - shadow conjuration and evocation, shadow walking, darkness spells, and even negative energy spells. Shadow Weave magic, IMO, is like a photo negative of Weave magic, or perhaps the emptiness between the strands of the Weave. It's literally like the Shadow of the weave. And a magic user of any kind would have to specifically learn or be taught to derive power from that source because the default and far more common medium is (or was) weave magic. That's not to say that Shadow Weave casters don't use shadow magic a lot more than other magicians, but the two can be mutually exclusive.
That's not to invalidate your point, BadCatMan. Many people have tried throughout the editions to reconcile changes in lore that occurred to match changes in mechanics. Also, if you are playing a 3.X Shadowdancer, you might not be using 4e canon changes at all. It's certainly possible to play any edition's mechanics while using current lore.
There's also a lot of different uses and interpretations of planes in different editions. In some, the Plane of Shadow (Shadowfell, Shadowland, etc...) is an entirely separate plane from the Plane of Negative Energy. In others, they're combined. Certain dark gods are said to dwell in this plane, so it wouldn't be surprising if people using arcane and divine shadow magic derived power from the plane (or the god). |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
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Taliesen
Acolyte
9 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2013 : 05:12:43
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quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan
I don't know Fox-at-Twilight, I'm afraid, as I've not read those novels. My focus was on shadow magic in general, to provide some background for a shadowcaster PC in my game.
You should give them a shot. They are quite good, although it's been a while since I read them.
And thanks to both you and Erik for the help. I'm quite impressed that I got a Realms author to respond!
As far as edition mechanics go, which Eytan mentioned, this is a 3.5 game in a pre-ToT setting. We borrow from later sources when they fit or make for a better experience, but I'm proud to say that there is no Spellplague to worry about. |
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BadCatMan
Senior Scribe
Australia
401 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2013 : 06:05:22
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quote:
Originally posted by EytanBernstein
That's not to invalidate your point, BadCatMan.
No, not at all, that's exactly what I understood from your article and was trying to explain. Thanks for Class Chronicles, by the way. I'm running a mixed-magic in FR game using them as a basis. It was a good way to give the Shadowcaster PC some wider options without bringing Shar into it (she follows Selûne now).
quote:
Originally posted by Taliesen
You should give them a shot. They are quite good, although it's been a while since I read them.
And thanks to both you and Erik for the help. I'm quite impressed that I got a Realms author to respond!
As far as edition mechanics go, which Eytan mentioned, this is a 3.5 game in a pre-ToT setting. We borrow from later sources when they fit or make for a better experience, but I'm proud to say that there is no Spellplague to worry about.
I only just finished Crucible: The Trial of Cyric the Mad. I have a lot to catch up on in Realms reading!
I'm happy to help. |
BadCatMan, B.Sc. (Hons), M.Sc.
Scientific technical editor
Head DM of the Realms of Adventure play-by-post community
Administrator of the Forgotten Realms Wiki |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1150 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2013 : 13:05:59
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Tome of Magic never explicitly states that all of the shadow-magic casters presented within would all use the Shadow Weave in a Forgotten Realms game, just that it is a source of power for shadow magic casters. Point of fact, in the book's introduction it states:
quote:
Shadow magic exists in the D&D game
as a subschool of illusion magic. The FORGOTTEN REALMS Campaign
Setting took the concept further with the creation of
the Shadow Weave and the corrupt magic it produces. Tome
of Magic presents a wholly different option for shadow magic
that connects it more deeply to the Plane of Shadow and
fully embraces that realm’s true nature as a dark mirror to
the Material Plane.
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When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2013 : 16:28:36
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Again, BCM, I appreciate your enthusiasm, but we need to be clear that no matter how canonical one's evidence or support, that does not make one's article "canonical." The only thing that makes a piece of lore or extrapolated reasoning "canonical" is if WotC or Ed states that it is or publishes it.
Canon is open to interpretation. Adding canonical facts together does not necessarily yield a canonical conclusion.
Also, to be technical, you *are* making the argument that shadowdancing is associated with shadow magic in general (and/or the shadow weave in specific), using Eytan's articles as evidence for your argument. Eytan may or may not have made that argument, but you writing an article that makes that argument is you making that argument.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2013 : 17:47:03
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| I don't want to trudge to heavy into this, but shadow weave / shadow magic are sort of separate things. Shadow Weave is a very shar, although you could access it like the normal weave, if you were intent on it, shadow magic, is rather more weave based pushing heavy on the same realms of abilities that you see that create orbs of darkness and illusions. Also shadow realm is a realm onto itself, much like the etheral/astral travel you see, teleporting spells are just going through the etheral realm just like they go over the shadow realm. |
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BadCatMan
Senior Scribe
Australia
401 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2013 : 01:43:06
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Hash: Thanks, I missed that bit. The actual Shadow Magic chapter is a little less clear, with the "The Shadow Weave of Toril" sidebar hinting that shadow magic uses the Shadow Weave. So of course I went with Eytan Bernstein's correction in "Class Chronicles" as the basis (it being clear and canon Realms material and all).
Erik Scott de Bie: Sorry to quibble semantics (it's my job, really), but we seem to be working off different definitions. 'Canonical' is an adjective describing that something based on canon or presenting canon, or, indeed, is canon. That is, information that comes from canon sources is canonical. If you or me or anyone here made a post that accurately summarised information that appears in canon sources, then that would be canonical information. An FR sourcebook, novel, or comment by Ed Greenwood is both a canon source and a canonical one. So an article made up canonical information is also canonical. It is not a canon article, but a canonical article.
Consider what an encyclopaedia does: it presents an article of accurate and factual information; it is a factual article. 'Factual' would be a bit off for a fictional universe, so 'canonical' would be the best term to use here.
My article is based on canon sources and presents canonical information; ergo, it is a canonical article, not a canon one.
Eytan's "Class Chronicles" article did not link shadowdancers to shadow magic (only stated they can join Demarch's Folly), and I never said that it did. Races of Faerun page 103 and Tome of Magic page 110 are the sources linking shadowdancers to shadow magic. I am not the one making this argument, the canon sources are. I'm only reporting it. Maybe you don't like it, fine, but don't shoot the messenger. |
BadCatMan, B.Sc. (Hons), M.Sc.
Scientific technical editor
Head DM of the Realms of Adventure play-by-post community
Administrator of the Forgotten Realms Wiki |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2013 : 02:55:21
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| Just a note, there's a group with a strong link to thieving and shadows in Thesk (the Telflammar Shadowlords). They have strong ties to Mask. However, if your character maybe was once of a shady past and is now a repentant justiciar of Hoar... might make for a good area. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2013 : 14:15:32
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Some of this is also a matter of terminology.
Shadowcasting - was a mechanic specific to 3rd edition. It did not really overlap with arcane magic cast by wizards, sorcerers, and other casters who drew from the weave, at least in terms of mechanics. Nevertheless, it's possible (not a guarantee here), that shadowcasters could have derived their power from either the Weave or the Shadow Weave. But they wouldn't qualify for feats and PrCs that require Shadow Weave magic or the ability to cast shadow magic spells, unless they actually had the appropriate prerequisites from another source.
Shadow magic - is a subset of magic, typically a descriptor, that includes spells that create darkness, conjure semi-solid objects out of shadows, and provides some ability to interact with a shadow plane (shadow walking, summoning shadows, storing things in a shadow plane). This only refers to spells, not supernatural abilities.
Shadow Weave magic - is magic (specifically spells) that derives its power from the Shadow Weave, not the Weave. While its casters may like shadows or study shadow magic, their power can functionally produce similar affects to weave casters. They need not use shadow magic spells, though they might favor them.
Shadowdancers - not spellcasters at all, but more like rogues with some special abilities that have shadow flavor. While their abilities are similar to shadow magic, they aren't actually spells. Most of their abilities that relate to shadows are supernatural, not spell-like in nature, with the exception of the ability to create minor illusions, and even then illusions aren't shadow magic unless specifically stated as such, despite the name of the spell-like abilities - "Shadow Illusion." They have learned supernatural secrets that don't necessarily derive from any sort of Weave, be it shadow or otherwise. When I say that, I'm specifically referring to the fact that Shadowdancers don't qualify for mechanics (feats, PrCs) that require Shadow Weave magic, shadow magic spells, or shadow casting.
That said, I don't think it would be far fetched for Shadowdancers' abilities to be considered based on the Shadow Weave or shadow magic. They certainly have an affinity for shadows. But there is certainly no mechanics that would guarantee that interpretation. |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
Edited by - EytanBernstein on 08 Jun 2013 07:30:50 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2013 : 15:19:44
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Understood, BCM. I suspect that not everyone gets the nuance of "canon" vs. "canonical." The word "canon" (and related words like "canonical") is a magic word for a lot of people that evokes a certain understanding in a reader. While it may be accurate and fair to apply the word "canonical" to something that is merely extrapolated (however accurately or logically) from a "canon" source, it also confuses the issue.
I mean, you and I both seem like very intelligent people who are very cognizant of this concept, and look how long we've been talking about it. A layman or just someone looking for some quick info about shadowdancers or shadow magic might easily stumble upon your article on the wiki and take away from it the idea that WotC had categorically stated that shadowdancers use shadow magic--that it was established canon and anyone with an alternative idea was "breaking canon"--when that just isn't true.
It's a really minute point, but it's important to me that you see where I'm coming from. I don't want anyone to be confused as to what is established "canon" and what is a reasonable/logical/sound extrapolation.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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BadCatMan
Senior Scribe
Australia
401 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2013 : 03:02:37
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Oh, great, I'm glad we understand each other now. I was afraid we were getting into an argument. I apologise if I came off rather strong, but pooh-poohing my article, research, and wiki (after our efforts to clean up) managed to press a few buttons.
I know well that canon is an often confused and controversial term in many fandoms. I've been in three. But you brought it up, I was previously only stating my write-up was accurate, the best representation of the lore as I could make at the time.
I really hope someone looking for quick info on shadowdancers or shadow magic stumbles upon my article and pokes further around the wiki. That's why I linked to it. It's a good way to save time when discussing Realmslore if there's a handy overview or reference to the lore readily available. We don't intend to be authoritative. It's in our mission statement that we hope people will find what they're looking for on the wiki, then go look it up in their books for confirmation and a more complete understanding.
I don't think anyone's going to mistake our wiki articles as canon pieces. Wikipedia and fan wikis are pretty common and well known now, and FR fans should be savvy enough to know the difference.
I also don't want a reader to take away a mistaken understanding. I was confident that my piece was correct. Regardless, I've added further detail from Tome of Magic to clarify the point regarding shadowdancers:
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Shadow_magic
I hadn't wanted to include too much from Tome of Magic since it was only a core sourcebook and the information wasn't FR specific.
If you find an error, please do feel free to point it out, specifically, or even fix it yourself. A wiki is a collective, collaborative effort. |
BadCatMan, B.Sc. (Hons), M.Sc.
Scientific technical editor
Head DM of the Realms of Adventure play-by-post community
Administrator of the Forgotten Realms Wiki |
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Shadowdancers in The Realms
