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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
 Posted - 17 May 2013 : 12:53:56
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My question is how you would handle two clerics under the same god but with different alignments which would make them enemies?
Like a CG cleric of Gond versus a LE cleric of Gond?
Or a CG cleric of Tempus versus a CE cleric of Tempus?
Or a LG cleric of Helm versus a LE cleric of Helm?
Any suggestions, ideas or tips?
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Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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Pineapple
Acolyte
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2013 : 13:08:46
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Imagine such conflicts with real-world religions. Christianity, Islam, Judaism, and other world religions are not huge groups of people with singular visions, they are all subdivided into smaller groups. And in some cases, subdivided again and again. I don't think there's any reason to believe that wouldn't happen in the Realms, unless you're trying to keep things extremely simplistic. That said, it's probably not worth your time (and it may not be particularly canon) to split each FR deity's worshipers into discrete sects.
Add into that that some of the alignments allowed by Realms deities are occasionally odd in my opinion, and you have a case where you're going to have to go with your gut. (For example, followers of Tempus are supposed to respect the rules of fair combat at all times according to the Realms Wiki, but is that really reasonable for a CE or CN character?)
I think it's safe to assume that almost all FR deities have some kind of prohibition on outright physical infighting. Certainly the Lawful deities would. A church that allows its clergy to regularly and lawlessly battle each other weakens itself immensely and allows itself to look like a disorganized joke to the rest of the faiths. I would absolutely roleplay some heated disagreements on policy or interpretation, and political backstabbing would probably happen in some cases. For example, a LE character trying to move up in the ranks by discrediting his LN or LG counterparts. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4686 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2013 : 13:11:28
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Er, I seem to recall Clerics can not be that diverse, followers certainly can be for major deities. CG VS LE should not be possible as Clerics of same deity.
That said, alignment by itself does not make automatic enemies, it depends on actions. Clearly a Cleric of Helm hearing about what a different one did might be concerned saying that is not what I would do. No if the two are even in the same party and both in good standing with their deity, it would still depend on actions or words. As long as the Clerics are faithful to the dogma, rules of their religion, niether has the right to attack the other. They clearly might get into discussions with each other and both might seek arbitration of a higher Cleric of the faith.
Of course a false Cleric revealed likely would be attacked, possible to the death. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2013 : 13:19:30
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Actually clerics of Gond and Oghma, at least, are allowed to be any alignment. At least by 3ed rules. So a CE v. LG or CG v. LE are possible with these gods.
There is a question of if clerics of different alignments are allowed to fight each other.
Like if a LE evil cleric of Helm is making an army of 'watch' undead by killing members of an entire village, while the LG cleric of Helm is defending the people of the village. Both could be said to be fulfilling their commitments to Helm, but they would also be in conflict... likely physically. |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4686 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2013 : 13:47:28
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Yes Clerics of the same deity can fight each other to the death, based on their mundane actions or even how they interpret the dogma. It should tend to be rare a battle over religion, however Clerics' actions are not always based on religion.
The base default is slavery is Evil and not Lawful, however is some sections of the Realms clearly it is considered normal, Kawful and Good. Clerics of the same deity from different regions clearly could fight to the death one to free slaves, the other to keep slaves.
Eilistraee Dogma is "No Drow should die, smite Evil" in part which should translare into no Good Drow should be killed, however an Evil Drow can be killed. Using Ed's estimate 75 percent of Drow do not have the protection from "No Drow should be Kill." |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2013 : 14:05:08
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To me, it all depends on circumstances. Also, alignment/portfolios of the deity has a lot to do with it. Priests of an 'evil' god are more likely to use violence against each other. Priests of Gond may not be able to cordially work together, but that doesn't mean they are trying to kill each other (and alignment may not even be the issue - I can see priests of Gond being especially competative).
If they are different physical locations, then there is no problems; they could possibly belong to different sects within a church. If they do meet somehow, and their agendas are in conflict, then YES, I can see their being problems. I think Ed has even mentioned times when certain Harpers have worked against each other.
This is like when two group of Barbarians go to war - both groups may follow Talos, or Uthgardt, or whatever, but the god doesn't take sides. In fact, he is probably happy with them killing each other (because it falls within his purview). So once again, it is entirely situational, and there are far too many factors to create a general rule-of-thumb for this one.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 17 May 2013 14:05:45 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11716 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2013 : 14:14:00
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Everything depends on the circumstances and the religion involved. Taking the ideas you presented
The two gondsmen would probably not be best friends, but unless some point of contention arises between them, they wouldn't be at odds. It should take a lot to turn this to blows.
The two Tempus worshippers would consider the other a worthy foe, but they wouldn't go out of their way to assault one another. However, if they were mercenaries on two sides of a battle, they might actively seek the other out to prove that they are the favored one in the eyes of Tempus.
The example given of the evil Helmite's "watch" undead being created is a pretty bad example, as that cleric wouldn't be following lawful tendencies (i.e. murdering innocents). Said cleric could use say rampaging bands of orcs, gnolls, etc.... to accomplish the same goal and be serving his god in the end (i.e. he's protecting people from said orcs, gnolls AND turning their deaths into a useful end). Now, the two Helmites might be at odds over the creation of undead. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2392 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2013 : 07:06:30
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Why not.
But then, why not simply CN cleric of Tempus vs. CN cleric of Tempus? Or, say, CE priestess of Lolth vs...  |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Enemies under the Same God
