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Sightless
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Sep 2012 : 23:41:15
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Now, allow me to explain: I am attempting to flush out the Kingdom of Many Arrows, well, actually been at it for a while now. Yes, I’m sure there’s probably some Realms source somewhere in lovely print and lots of colorful pictures in it, but it’s not accessible to me, and frankly I’m having more fun this way. That said, can any body help me with Zhent and Cult of the dragon activity in the north in general? I’m more interested in Zhent activity, as I’ve just recently acquired the Cult of the Dragon book from TSR. Any information will be most helpful. I can see the black net work having folks in the kingdom, especially after the earliest years, helping to stir up dissatisfaction among different orcish clans. I can also see them pretty active in Lufkin after the fall of the Host Tower; thanks in advance.
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We choose to live a lie, when we see with, & not through the eye.
Every decision, no matter the evidence, is a leap of faith; if it were not, then it wouldn't be a choice at all. |
Edited by - Sightless on 19 Sep 2012 13:44:26
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Lord Bane
Senior Scribe
Germany
479 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 13:41:41
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It would depend on what period of time you plan to use. If you go "edition neutral" then I suggest you take a look at the Silver Marches or Luruar as they call it now. The 3rd Edition sourcebook on the Silver Marches aswell as the 3rd Edition Forgotten Realms Campagin Setting and Champions of Ruin state that settlers from Zhentil Keep are arriving, pretending to not be involved in the politics of the Black Network but it is hinted that they await orders to expand the influence of the very same network they deny having any connection with.
If you wish to add the religious component into it, which in my opinion should always be applied to the Zhentarim, especially when they are working with the Church of Bane and the fact that they were the most powerfull when the Black Network was controlled by the faithfull of Bane, i suggest adding Sundabar into the picture. Again the 3rd edition Sourcebook on the Silver Maches states that the banite faith lead by Dreadlord Holt Burukhan is growing within Sundabar and since the Zhentarim and the Church of Bane is heavily interwoven, it is not unlikely to have the faithfull in Sundabar do dealings with the Zhentarim.
Of course the Silver Marches are only a neighbouring region of the Kingdom of Many Arrows but it is the closest to the region you wish to flush out.
Luskan,the seat of Power of the Host Tower of the Arcane does had dealings with the Zhentarim but if they are to any greater extend is not clear. The Savage Frontier Sourcebook and the Waterdeep and the North sourcebook both state that the Zhentarim are attempting to strike an alliance with the City while the sourcebooks The North and Volo´s Guide to the North state that the Zhentarim among other powergroups attempt to place agents within the Arcane Brotherhood. Cloak&Dagger states that the Zhentarim have a some sort of presence or influence within the City of Luskan.
Lords of Darkness speaks of Overwizard Rimardo Domine who is, together with High Captain Suljack of Luskan in talks with the Zhentarim over an alliance, while The Savage Frontier states that the Host Tower of the Arcane is allied with the Zhentarim. The North and The Savage Frontier both speak of Eldeluc who has had contact with the Black Network due to his faith. The North and Villains Lorebook also mention Dendybar the Mottled who went from worshipping of Myrkul to Iyachtu Xvim and given the period where the Church of Iyachtu Xvim was acting as replancement for the Church of Bane, due to the Black Hands temporary death, within the Zhentarim it could be possible that he also had atleast some connection via the faith to the Black Network.
Luskan and the Silver Marches/Luruar are the neighbours of the Kingdom of Many Arrows and that is pretty much what i could find on Zhentarim involvement within them. Further south and southeast of the Silver Marches/Luruar you also got the Grey Vale with the Zhentarim controlled settlements of Orlbar and Llorkh as western bases of the Black Network and end of the Black Road in Llorkh but those are perhaps too far away for your Orc Kingdom. |
The driving force in the multiverse is evil, for it forces good to act. |
Edited by - Lord Bane on 06 Sep 2012 13:59:18 |
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Sightless
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2012 : 13:48:52
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... kingdom founded by Obould Many-Arrows in 1371 DR and recognized as a sovereign realm by several of the Silver Marches signatories the following year. It stretches From Mithral Hall in the west to the Moonwood in the east and to the Evermoors in the south.
Q, in the north, does it stretch all the way to the spine of the world? I think so, but am not sure.
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We choose to live a lie, when we see with, & not through the eye.
Every decision, no matter the evidence, is a leap of faith; if it were not, then it wouldn't be a choice at all. |
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Lord Bane
Senior Scribe
Germany
479 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2012 : 14:23:46
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| The maps show that it is part of the Spine of the World, i would say it goes as far as the ice shield. |
The driving force in the multiverse is evil, for it forces good to act. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2012 : 18:43:34
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Yes, the Spine of the World is included in his Realm (although how much of it he actually controls is questionable). His 'capitol' is in the Spine of the World, IIRC, and thats where most of his orcs live, most of the time.
You get a good feeling for his kingdom in the Drizzt novels (Hunter's Blade trilogy), and there is one short story (where he is returning that dead elf's body to her people) where it describes the extent of the kingdom, and how much more advanced the orcs were then anyone ever gave them credit for (they were building a series of fortifications along their border).
@Sightless - I haven't taken a close look at that other thing yet, but I haven't forgotten about it. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 19 Sep 2012 18:44:15 |
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Sightless
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2012 : 20:32:54
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They were digging on to hold onto what they claimed during the fighting, and that's why they couldn't be simply pushed back as before. The Silver March forces would have to take out each fortification, or risk having an attack on their flanks. It would be a slow costly process, even with magic. |
We choose to live a lie, when we see with, & not through the eye.
Every decision, no matter the evidence, is a leap of faith; if it were not, then it wouldn't be a choice at all. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6669 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2012 : 02:04:18
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There are no direct connections between the Zhentarim and the Kingdom of Many Arrows - and realistically, why should there be? The Zhents are not all encompassing. It's simplistic to view the Realms as dominated by the major power groups, when more minor and localised groups are more to Ed's vision of how the Realms moves and shakes. It is even more simplistic to consider that the major evil power groups, stand shoulder to shoulder cackling evilly to themselves. They defend their territory and "patches" with vigour.
So let's look at how the Zhents could get contact with the Kingdom of Many Arrows. Clearly, the first response is "with difficulty". Their chief problem is with geography. The High Forest is a significant barrier to entry in the North, which is why trade goes through the Heartlands and then up the Sword Coast and through the Dessarin valley. The Zhents have 'short-cutted' this route somewhat through Anauroch and Llorkh/Loudwater but they can't go straight north from there due to Hellgate Keep. Geography alone prevents the Zhents having a major presence in the Kingdom of Many Arrows.
Secondly, WHY would the Zhents want to have a presence there? Why would they want to stir up trouble in the orcish clans? What is their benefit in doing so? I can't think of any immediate benefits. A long term benefit might be the destaibilisation of the North and hence a greater focus on the Heartlands and the Vilhon/South for trade and mercantile activity, but this is stretching a long bow.
Why don't you focus on coming up with some local power groups who have a presence in the Kingdom of Many Arrows? How about the duergar of Gracklstugh? How about illithid manipulation of the orc tribes to form a horde as they did in 612 DR with the Everhorde?
I don't think the Zhents are the best fit for the Kingdom of Many Arrows. Go ahead and us them if you really want to, but I think there are far more better options out there.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Sightless
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2012 : 22:48:38
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
There are no direct connections between the Zhentarim and the Kingdom of Many Arrows - and realistically, why should there be? The Zhents are not all encompassing. It's simplistic to view the Realms as dominated by the major power groups, when more minor and localised groups are more to Ed's vision of how the Realms moves and shakes. It is even more simplistic to consider that the major evil power groups, stand shoulder to shoulder cackling evilly to themselves. They defend their territory and "patches" with vigour.
So let's look at how the Zhents could get contact with the Kingdom of Many Arrows. Clearly, the first response is "with difficulty". Their chief problem is with geography. The High Forest is a significant barrier to entry in the North, which is why trade goes through the Heartlands and then up the Sword Coast and through the Dessarin valley. The Zhents have 'short-cutted' this route somewhat through Anauroch and Llorkh/Loudwater but they can't go straight north from there due to Hellgate Keep. Geography alone prevents the Zhents having a major presence in the Kingdom of Many Arrows.
Secondly, WHY would the Zhents want to have a presence there? Why would they want to stir up trouble in the orcish clans? What is their benefit in doing so? I can't think of any immediate benefits. A long term benefit might be the destaibilisation of the North and hence a greater focus on the Heartlands and the Vilhon/South for trade and mercantile activity, but this is stretching a long bow.
Why don't you focus on coming up with some local power groups who have a presence in the Kingdom of Many Arrows? How about the duergar of Gracklstugh? How about illithid manipulation of the orc tribes to form a horde as they did in 612 DR with the Everhorde?
I don't think the Zhents are the best fit for the Kingdom of Many Arrows. Go ahead and us them if you really want to, but I think there are far more better options out there.
-- George Krashos
I am or was asking, because My GM used them alot, and since the only 4e material I have was Gontlegrum, I'm probably not spelling that right, I asked to see what power groups were in the area. I know the Netherese are near never Winter, but don't see them being very active, nor the Phayans, save the undead, which seem to be simply wandering around recking havoc. I have already several plains for groups in the under dark, but was trying to see what surfice groups were already in the area. Please keep in mind, that until laterially a week ago, my information was extremly limited. So, I started with what groups I already knew about. Given responses I see that these groups aren'trelatively active in that area, but I had noway of knowing that in the beginning. Now, that I have more information I can better realize that certain groups that I wasn't sure about, such as the Gray Dwarves, as possible rivals. I am currently reading the Underdark Pdf that I just recently purchased, and am getting plenty of ideas. Just so you'll know, and understand the reason for the question a little better. |
We choose to live a lie, when we see with, & not through the eye.
Every decision, no matter the evidence, is a leap of faith; if it were not, then it wouldn't be a choice at all. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6669 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2012 : 02:04:23
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No need to explain yourself Sightless. I was just trying to giev you abit of perspective on that area of the North and encouraging you to move away from the "staple bad guys" and be a bit more inventive. That's what makes the Realms live and breath, not a Zhentarim or Shade in every cave.
What would be cooler again is for you to come up with a unique group/individual who is operating in the Kingdom of Many Arrows and give us the details here at the 'Keep. Not enough sharing of good ideas and realmslore these days.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Sightless
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2012 : 22:07:48
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| According to the underdark book the Imaskari are responsible for creating the Phaerimms. Does anyone know where further details on this is provided? I don’t hear anything on it on Lost empires. |
We choose to live a lie, when we see with, & not through the eye.
Every decision, no matter the evidence, is a leap of faith; if it were not, then it wouldn't be a choice at all. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6669 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2012 : 05:41:12
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That reference is in the 3E 'Underdark' accessory but is anomalous. There is lore that has phaerimm present well prior to the founding date of Imaskar. I've postulated that some Imaskari wizards did indeed create phaerimm - as in breed them - not create them as a race. It might be an opportunity to have a different variant of phaerimm, or even  neutral or good phaerimm ...
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Sightless
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2012 : 23:22:15
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Thanks George, you are once again extremly helpful.
Now, when reading through some of the material I was able to purchase in pdf I ran across an interesting fact, it is mentioned that when the Hord was finally stoped, one of the groups was a group of orcs workingfor the Zhents. I know that they settled in Thesk. The text refers to the group as "the thousand orc
soldiers ". Is just a title of the unit, or were there actually a thousand orcs living in this region? The latter seems more likely, but I can't say either way. And yes, I'm interested in this for very obvious reasons. |
We choose to live a lie, when we see with, & not through the eye.
Every decision, no matter the evidence, is a leap of faith; if it were not, then it wouldn't be a choice at all. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2012 : 04:05:24
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I think the Phaerimm are more of something that naturally occurs around high magic usage, the way moths are drawn to a flame. They are basically magical parasites; they 'infect' things like the weave.
Thus, they probably were created by the Imaskari... in as much as one dying and becoming a corpse is said to create maggots. Like George says, that doesn't mean those were the first maggots... just the Imaskari ones.
I think of them more as a natural (giant) pathogen in a magical universe, and Sharn are just antibodies (some natural, some developed by exposure to 'Phaerimm infections'... in other words, created by powerful magical beings to protect themselves from Phaerimm). Unfortunately for the Netherese, they were not the selfless types, and so never discovered (or bothered with) the Sharn counter-measure.
And just like RW virus strains, you can indeed have different types. Even in the Return of the Archwizards series they described the differences (in attitude) between the Myth Drannor Phaerimm and the ones trapped under Anauroch. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Sightless
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2013 : 01:07:39
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I have a miner Dilemma and as a relatively new DM, thought I’d ask you guys, as I’m sure many of you are experienced DMs. I practice a simulatetist design, which as Described by Herold (2002), is a design that attempts to creat as real a false setting as possible. By this one attempts to increase the level of believability for any setting, story, play, etc, to enable the audience to suspend their disbelief and become part of the setting. Now, with the fiddle-faddle out of the way, I’ve taken the time to create organizations, guilds, companies, cities, towns, etc, etc, and then created a series of events that are going on, and have allowed the party to decide how they’d like to respond, depending on their responses, the various campaigns can be iniciated. While the campaigns are ongoing however, things are happening at the same time. For instance, a plague has broken out in the town of Bloody tusks, and the district Kauthag’Knaug (That’s high cordenator in common), has quorentened the town and the district. This doesn’t actually affect the party directly, they are in Five Tusks, dealing with a string of murders, all non-orcs, as part of a long standing contract with the ambassador from Silver moon. This is my prefrence in playing, or rather running a game, for the most part, my party enjoys it, although they all think I’m putting too much work into it.
This is my problem, one player thinks that the game isn’t linear enough, how I enject this into the game, while still providing the rest with the kind of game they’ve seemed to enjoy thus far? Should I alter my DM style to something less free flowing, to make it more RPGish?
Imput is greatly appreciated.
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We choose to live a lie, when we see with, & not through the eye.
Every decision, no matter the evidence, is a leap of faith; if it were not, then it wouldn't be a choice at all. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4690 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2013 : 01:37:14
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Well liner is always a problem that some players expect. Being told of four problems some players want to take care of all of them as they choose.
As DM you offer the possibilities, however they clearly are not all the adventurers in the realm.
If the PCs decide to go North for one problem it clearly is possible an NPC character party might choose to go South to solve one of the other problems.
Even free flow can mean more then one problem can be solved at the same time by different parties. As to should you charge how you DM because of one player the quick answer is NO, the better answer though is to have discussion with all the players to ask how they find fun in the playing the game.
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2013 : 07:56:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Sightless
Should I alter my DM style to something less free flowing, to make it more RPGish?
I received similar input from a player of mine in my last campaign.
My solution was to take a segment of my adventure centered around a dungeon crawl and strip it of most of the fluffy plot that I had built for the whole adventure.
Instead, I made the dungeon crawl about exploration and about survival.
The dungeon crawl still revealed some very important secrets about what was going on in the castle above, but not until the end of the crawl and not before the players had to go room by room and fight to survive and escape.
So, my advice is to find a way to narrow the focus, if only for a few campaign sessions. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Sightless
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2013 : 20:44:10
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| According to Power of Feyran, the Shadovar have a presence in the stonelands by 1372, or at the very least a claim, to what extent is their claim? Are they actively moving forces into the area, hirring mercanaries, what? Any info would be nice, as I don't hear anything on this in the 4e campaign manual, and can't find anything else on it, with the sources at my disposal. Thanks for any help. |
We choose to live a lie, when we see with, & not through the eye.
Every decision, no matter the evidence, is a leap of faith; if it were not, then it wouldn't be a choice at all. |
Edited by - Sightless on 20 May 2013 04:56:33 |
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Sightless's silly questions
