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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
 Posted - 18 May 2013 : 20:56:55
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Right, but all that aside, part of protecting one's IP is proving that you have continually protected it against 'unlicensed usage', and a big chunk of what the OGL did was throw a lot of their argument into a trash can. How can you say you are actively protecting something you gave most of away for free?
Even without this movie thing - which is a BIG thing as far as a precedent goes (in the case of IP protection) - I used to have a list of dozens of instances of how they ignored flagrant violations, and also how quite a bit of 'their' IP was actually derived from other people's IP's (hell, the magic system is actually referred to as 'Vancian'... by people who work for WotC/Hasbro).
At last years Gencon, when I asked lots of young people if they "played D&D", they responded 'yes'... and then showed me their Pathfinder books. It doesn't matter whether a copy is really a 'xerox', or if my sawzall is really a 'reciprocating saw'... in the end, the court of public opinion truly decides these things. If WE consider D&D part of the public domain, there's not much they can do to change it.
Which is why they should opt away from the whole 'D&D' thing, and go with the stronger branding... the one that is better known to folks who have never picked up a P&P RPG... The Forgotten Realms.
Or Dragonlance... or Eberron... etc. Screw 'D&D', its not a branding anymore, its a category. RAS books sell. Neverwinter/Baldur's Gate VG's sell. Everyone knows who Drizzt is... go with the branding that everyone is familiar with, with no past negativity attached.
"THE FORGOTTEN REALMS... this ain't your dad's D&D"
I can see the ads now. The double entendre is that the 'old farts' are all still playing D&D... and thats become associated with PF. Turn a negative into positive... let them have the title, with all the baggage that goes with it. You want a fresh start, ditch the branding... its not doing us any favors at this point.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 18 May 2013 20:58:37 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2013 : 23:00:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Right, but all that aside, part of protecting one's IP is proving that you have continually protected it against 'unlicensed usage', and a big chunk of what the OGL did was throw a lot of their argument into a trash can. How can you say you are actively protecting something you gave most of away for free?
Ah, but they weren't giving it away. They were presenting the rules as more of a standard, saying "here, use these, but don't change them, credit us, and tell people to buy our stuff. They still own the name, and the rules, and all that -- they just allowed more people to use them. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2013 : 00:19:51
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| If they were to make a D&D movie, as much as I love the realms, they really should do the Dragonlance Chronicles, because anyone that was big into D&D read and appreciated it. Unfortunately, they had someone start a dragonlance animated movie a few years ago, and it was never completed (it didn't completely suck, but it wasn't great). Its been about 5 years since then though. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2013 : 06:06:27
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Thanks again, THO!
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Everyone knows who Drizzt is... go with the branding that everyone is familiar with, with no past negativity attached. [bold added]
Ah, the irony of what you just wrote, right there!  |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2013 : 05:50:25
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This article details some of the reasons why the D&D movie rights are in contention and why Courtney Solomon may be able to fend off Hasbro's attempts to reclaim those rights.
http://www.examiner.com/article/why-courtney-solomon-will-retain-the-dungeons-dragons-movie-rights
It helps to know the execs in the company and it helps that they didn't care enough about the rights to sign a terrible contract.
Also there's this video called Secrets of TSR: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRqSQUL6734
Where TSR alumni talked about various things at a PaizoCon panel. Jeff Grubb mentions how the criteria for the movies were setup and the current D&D movies have never failed to meet those requirements, thus the rights remain out of reach of Hasbro.
How I see it, (though I'm not a lawyer) I think the only way Hasbro will get the rights back is to claim the original agreement was made in poor faith by persons either incompetent or with an agenda to disrupt the previous company/enrich themselves. If an agreement cannot be enforce, perhaps Hasbro has a recourse.
Or they could play hardball and use their existing trademarks to lock down all merchandising for any third party D&D movie. Make the movie unprofitable without supplemental revenue from cross-promotion deals and merchandise. As we know from other genre films like Star Wars, merchandising can pay several times more than the box office receipts. Of course Hasbro/WotC did allow the TSR trademark to lapse, and I believe the Mystara trademark as well at one time, though they might have renewed Mystara for the re-release of the arcade game.
Failing that, they could pay the current rights holders a large sum of money. Everything is for sale, just depends on how much the seller wants and how much you're willing to pay. |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2013 : 17:32:24
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| Here is a link to where talk about the D&D movie begins. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2013 : 05:27:07
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Here is a very interesting article
<http://web.archive.org/web/20110607011132/http://www.chud.com/6592/INTERVIEW-COURTNEY-SOLOMON-AN-AMERICAN-HAUNTING/>
on the history of the first D&D movie.
It talks about the personal connections that Solomon used/exploited to get the rights, as well as his ongoing struggles with TSR/WOTC during development.
To their credit, when WOTC first came on, they sensed the epic fail in the air and sued at that time, too, in order to try to kill the movie en utero. It didn't work, but at least they tried at their earliest possible opportunity.
Solomon also acknowledged that once the dust settled on that lawsuit, there wasn't much time left on his legal rights to the film. He had to cut his losses, and move forward with the resources on hand at that time, or else lose the rights.
I don't get it: why would the former TSR head's brother get Solomon in good with the company, and then the TSR head, herself, interfere with Solomon every step of the way from then on?
There are a LOT of film projects that wither on the vine, for lack of substantive progress during development/preproduction. And that's probably a very good thing, too. We don't need headstrong people pushing forward with any more D&D films until they actually have their ducks in a row (starting with a solid script!). Throwing whatever you have up at the wall to see what sticks, and then pointing the finger of blame at everybody who got in your way, does not count as having your ducks in a row. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2013 : 06:37:35
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They would have to get the script right and choose the right actors(Hells if i know who should play what) but if they decide to produce a movie,about say, Elminster or Drizzt, it would have to be very well marketed.
Even today most people think of DND as obese nerds living in their mom's basement...a lot of marketing is needed to change that preconception. |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2013 : 17:00:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Dark Wizard
This article details some of the reasons why the D&D movie rights are in contention and why Courtney Solomon may be able to fend off Hasbro's attempts to reclaim those rights.
http://www.examiner.com/article/why-courtney-solomon-will-retain-the-dungeons-dragons-movie-rights
Looking at this article, it seems as though they only have rights to the D&D name (and if Book of Vile Darkness is any clue all the fluff included in the core rules), but not Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms, or any of the specific IPs. So I don't think we can expect it to be a movie from one of the non-Greyhawk (or generic) campaign settings. I wonder if that is a loophole WotC/Hasbro can exploit to make their own movie(s). |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2013 : 17:34:39
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quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
Thanks again, THO!
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Everyone knows who Drizzt is... go with the branding that everyone is familiar with, with no past negativity attached. [bold added]
Ah, the irony of what you just wrote, right there!
I can see that, but WE are looking at it as fans of The Realms, and as grognards on this site. Neraly everyone who plays WoW has heard of Drizzt, even if they've never read a RAS novel, or know what the hell 'The Realms' are.
Remember that trailer of the fake Drzzt movie? Something along those lines. You mention 'D&D', and you just slapped a whole can-of-negativity on it, before it even had a chance.
They need to move away from the D&D branding, and embrace The Forgotten Realms. Thats all I am saying. Pick something they know they own 100% and run with it. D&D has become something else... several somethings... and its no longer concrete enough to build your brand on.
I think Neverwinter was a great step in the right direction - thats precisely what I want to see. I have other.. reservations... about it, but not about their intentions. If they want to know why it will fail, they should download Game Developer Tycoon - a quirky little game (for only $10) that will teach them more about the video game industry then they ever wanted to know (and they will realize their mistake the same way I did while playing - marketing the wrong type of engine to the wrong audience).
However, their plan was good. They need to be a little bit better at picking employees (and development houses). I had more here, but after re-reading I decided it was in exceptionally bad taste (even for me). Don't change the plan - make better decisions within it. Stay the course, and 'think smart'.
Don't try to be D&D... prove you have moved beyond it. Thats how you grab 'the kiddies' these days. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 23 May 2013 17:36:17 |
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carbos
Acolyte
14 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2013 : 10:05:10
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| One thing that I could see being profitable would be making TV series out of Drizzt Books. |
Edited by - carbos on 12 Jun 2013 10:05:35 |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1152 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2013 : 11:57:12
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A TV series would definitely be a better option for the Drizzt novels.
For an FR movie, I would use the Threat From the Sea trilogy. Fantasy films usually don't have such a focus on undersea things so it'd be fairly original. Also, you've got big battles for the CGI freaks, a menacing antagonist in the form of Iakhovas, a great protagonist in Jherek Wolf's-Get (dark history, newbie adventurer torn from his family, brave, honourable and with mysterious powers as well as gods constantly telling him that he has a big ol' destiny coming up), a powerful female character (which have become big with Game of Thrones) and love interest in the form of Sabyna, a comic relief character with the antics of the dwarf (I forgot his name). Not to mention the political rivalries and alliances with the Seros power groups, the sahuagin (who are represented particularly scarily by Mel Odom) and pirates! Everybody loves pirates.
However, the report says that script was written by the same guy who wrote the drek known as the Wrath of the Titans remake and the executive producer has never played the game so I don't hold my hopes too high. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2013 : 15:29:30
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Maybe, but it would have to be insanely good. Movies only need some explosions an CGI monsters to be popular these days, but TV series - bizarrely - have become more 'cerebral' (not talking about the plethora of 'reality shows' we have now - I am thinking more about the kind of programming AMC does).
Perhaps, when AMC is done with Game of Thrones, WotC should approach them regarding Drizzt? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 12 Jun 2013 15:30:28 |
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2013 : 18:41:26
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Not that it really matters in relation to the point Markustay is making, but GAME OF THRONES is on HBO.
One issue you're going to have to contend with if you try to make Drizzt or any FR property into a TV series is just how expensive it's going to be. GAME OF THRONES is workable because there aren't all that many monsters and no flashy D&D-style magic. At that, if it weren't VERY popular, HBO would likely have pulled the plug on it by now as they previously did with ROME and as Showtime just did with THE BORGIAS. |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2013 : 19:10:03
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I was thinking maybe movies for "The Icewind Dale Trilogy" and "The Dark Elf Trilogy", and if they absolutely wanted to keep bleeding the storyling dry, a TV series for the remaining books. Maybe it would work out to one book mini-series per season of the show?
But frankly, I would rather end the story with Drizzt and the gang happy at Mithral Hall, per the end of The Halfling's Gem, and not milking it any further than that. Wrap it up with a neat little bow, even though the books, themselves, don't end succinctly like that.
I would want to see other Realms novels given the bigscreen treatment at that point. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
Edited by - BEAST on 12 Jun 2013 19:15:30 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2013 : 01:27:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
Not that it really matters in relation to the point Markustay is making, but GAME OF THRONES is on HBO.
One issue you're going to have to contend with if you try to make Drizzt or any FR property into a TV series is just how expensive it's going to be. GAME OF THRONES is workable because there aren't all that many monsters and no flashy D&D-style magic. At that, if it weren't VERY popular, HBO would likely have pulled the plug on it by now as they previously did with ROME and as Showtime just did with THE BORGIAS.
There would have to be a LOT more T&A to attract HBO or Starz or Showtime. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Warner Bros. Aquires rights to make D&D movie
