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Originally posted by Hoondatha

Not that this isn't darkly humors, but to get back to the OP, I think those Pathfinder prices are going to be too high in a lot of cases.

Unfortunately, I think the true price is going to vary a great deal, depending on the situation. How common is slavery in that land? How common is the slave type? How far did the slaver have to bring the slaves, and how much risk was involved? Those prices might be good for an area with not a lot of slavery, or risk involved, but I'm guessing that in major slaving areas (ie: Calimport and Thay), slaves would go for a lot less. Unless, of course, a bidding war starts at auction, in which case, who knows.

It might be worth doing some research on how much slaves in the US pre-Civil War sold for, and what that would be in today's money. It would at least us a real-world comparison for agricultural and skilled labor slaves to base our musings on.

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For the purposes of this thread slavery shall be defined as: A person who is forced into servitude to a specified individual, organization or group, and is therefore considered unfree.

To most people the word slave conjures up images of Chattel Slavery. This is the stereotypical form of slavery that most people associate with the concept. In this form of slavery most people view the slaves as having poor living conditions, being treated worse than animals, enduring frequent whippings and having poor nutrition. This is obviously a very limited and narrow view of slavery that does not take into account the complexities that most societies build around the slave. Additionally, D&D offers new types of slavery not possible in the real world.

Therefore, for the purposes of this thread, I'd like to talk about and discuss other forms of slavery aside from Chattel Slavery.

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Note on Slave Breeding: As a general rule it should be assumed that many (but not all) cultures that embrace slavery also embrace a form of breeding among slaves. In this way, the slaves become self-sustaining and the culture of slavery becomes inbred into the children (it is all they've ever known). The slave can then be treated like a farmers crop and 'harvested'.

* Magic/Mental Slavery: D&D introduces magic into the slave equation, something not possible in real life. A common form of slavery that may take place in a standard D&D world is mental slavery. In this form of slavery these individuals are forced into bondage by entirely magical means. They have no free will, they're not treated as "less than animals" as in the Chattel system but are considered nothing more than useful tools. As tools, they can be well cared for, depending upon owners and culture, and may be assigned to specific and specialized tasks. This type of slavery would be the most common among creatures with mental domination abilities such as Illithid and Beholders, but could also be extended to the killing of living subjects and animating them as undead.

An undead slave would have benefits that a mentally dominated slave does not - for example, the undead slave does not need to eat, breathe or sleep and can unless otherwise instructed continue to perform a certain task indefinitely. Such slaves could be useful in mining, because breathing conditions are often a concern for living creatures.

For breeding purposes the note on slave breeding would apply normally. However, in a society that embraces undead slaves this obviously means keeping some slaves alive. Such societies may also attempt to 'modify' their slaves magically to either produce more slaves per-birth and may dabble in magical fertilization. Additional modification methods may be attempted on the unborn children - for example, attempting to make them naturally stronger so that they may handle tasks that are more strenuous. They may also attempt to breed various beings that would otherwise not be genetically compatible.

* Religious Slavery: Some nations that are theocracies may outlaw all forms of slavery, but may allow a certain religious group to keep slaves. These slaves, unlike typical slaves, may serve a cultural purpose. For example, in a lawful society based on a strict code of conduct, breaking that conduct may result in you temporarily losing your freedom in order to "redeem" yourself. The type of work you do may vary depending on the religion and the culture. You may have to serve the church for a defined period of time (a year or so perhaps) after which you are once again a free and absolved of your sins.

Such religious slavery may also be required for individuals who wish to become part of a people or larger group. In such cases, this type of religion might heavily embrace a certain race, tribe or nation. Like the above, you would serve for a period of time, proving your worth, and then at the end of your servitude be made an honorary member of the race / tribe or full member of the nation. That in turn would allow you the same privileges as any other member of the race / tribe or nation.

Finally, Religious Slavery may engender other forms of slavery, but the Church may be the only organization legally allowed to engage in it.

This may not be the only forms or types of Religious Slavery.

* Subservient Child: While this may be controversial to point out, depending on perspective the way children are handled in the modern western world (at least in the United States) may be viewed as a form of child servitude and by some groups a form of child slavery.

Words to describe children are often used such as: "Who does that child belong too?" The word belong is the key word. (Used in the same context: "Who does this chair belong too?" or "Who does this dog belong too?") No one looks at an adult and asks if they belong to anyone, and thus the child is seen as the parent's property. If the child runs away they are located and brought back. The child is expected to obey their parents, and should they disobey, the parent is fully within their rights to punish the child. There are very few methods in which a child can escape their parents until they reach adulthood.

This is brought up so that alternative family structures may be discussed.

In contrast to the society in which the family unit (parent and child) is the core, there may be other cultures and societies in which everything is shared with the rest of the community. That would include the raising of children. I would imagine Elvish Cultures perhaps taking this type of view for two reasons. First, Elvish Culture is said to embrace individualism and thus a higher worth may be placed upon the individual and therefore the child. Second, the age at which an Elf is considered an adult. As a result of seeing their children as separate from their parents, neither owned nor subservient, Elves would therefore likely view the method at which Humans raise their families disturbing if not down right oppressive.

I could also imagine Halfling and Gnomish culture following similar trends as the Elves.

An interesting point to bring up, though not really related, is the method in which the aforementioned cultures survive without the labor produced by their children. This may produce an interesting thought exercise.

* Slaves-As-Children: I also brought up the above to introduce this form of slavery. In some societies it may be possible to own a house hold slave, though they may be viewed by the family as something similar to a child. As there are laws protecting children against abuse in the real world, likewise, in a society that views slaves as something similar to children may have laws that protect them from abuse.

A slave in this type of society may be seen as subservient to even the children of the house, but at the same time, may be viewed as a member of the family. I guess, perhaps, the better way of thinking of it is as the family dog. The dog is loved and cared for by the family. The family may never consider harming the dog and be appalled by the idea. They view the dog as a member of the family and treat the dog as such, though there are obvious limitations. The dog is expected to be subservient to everyone in the home. He is expected to behave. In some cases the dog is expected to guard the home when the family is away, and in others the dog is expected to provide enjoyment and pleasure for the family.

Likewise, a slave in this type of culture may be viewed very similarly.

Additionally, in virtually every case, the slave would have to be viewed as inferior. The reason I call this method Slaves-As-Children is due to the mindset behind the slavery. The slave, like a child, would be viewed as someone who was so inferior that they lacked the ability to make good decisions and choices. As such, the family who has the slave is actually doing the slave a service (in their minds) by shielding them from things that could harm them, much as parents view themselves as shielding children from a world that is difficult for them to understand.

However, unlike a child, a slave never "grows up" and is forever in this "inferior" state. In almost all cases this type of slave would have to come from at least a moderately different culture (likely more barbaric than the slave-keepers) or of a different race entirely.

It might be possible for a particular type of Elf culture to embrace this type of slavery. They could view humans as inferior to the point that they are doing a service by "caring" for them.

* Slaves-As-Prisoners: In many cultures it is possible that a prisoner may be taken and their freedoms stripped away. In our own culture if you break the law you lose your freedom and are placed in jail. This may be common in other cultures as well.

Prisoners could potentially fall into any number of the above categories, however by definition they are unfree. They may be captured during wartime, and then forced into a type of Religious Slavery as outlined above in order to integrate into their new culture and society. Alternatively, they may simply be turned into chattel slaves, enslaved through magical / mental slavery, or perhaps some of the more desirable slaves may become Slaves-As-Children.

Alternatively, they could simply be left to rot like in our prison system and be forced to serve whatever governing body currently holds them. (Such as working in government owned fields.)

* Indentured Servant: In this type of slavery the slave typically enters into slavery willingly to pay off some debt. However, it would not be uncommon for someone to be forced into this type of slavery in order to pay off the debt. Generally speaking, this is only for a limited period of time until the debt has been paid, after which the slave is allowed to go free.

* Feudalism: Any feudal kingdom will have serfs and peasants which are slaves. Serfdom is a condition of slavery that involves enforced labor on the part of the serf on the land of a landowner. In return the landowner provides protections and the right to work on their land. It includes everything from agriculture, forestry, mining, transportation and pretty much anything else you can name. The entire system revolves around landownership, and technically speaking the serf is part of the land, thus if the land is sold so is the serf.

This type of slavery is common in most D&D games as Feudalism plays a critical part of the medieval atmosphere.

* The Caste Slave: There are could be types of Caste systems in which someone may actually want to become a slave. Becoming a slave in such systems may actually give you power over most free people and make you an important member of society.

* Concubine Slavery: Concubines are defined as slaves whose sole purpose is for either carnal gratification and/or breeding. The type of concubine may range from culture to culture and it may or may not be widespread through a culture. A king, for example, may take the most desirable girls and young women of a kingdom to serve as his personal Concubine. However, in some societies such as that of the Drow where a single sex dominates the term might also apply to a "spouse" or multiple "spouses" to indicate an inferiority in the relationship.

Additionally, this type of slavery could be combined with religious slavery if the religion in question embraces sexual gratification and hedonism as key tenants of the faith. Particularly beautiful and attractive slaves may be kept to serve either as attractive objects to look at as well as prostitutes to serve the priests (and priestesses) of the faith and other faithful.

* Conscription Slavery: This type of slavery is defined as individuals who are conscripted into a military or other similar service against their free will. They may serve a nation, a lord or a church and the length of their service may be temporary or permanent. Though, however, it should be pointed out that conscription slavery is dangerous if they are used as soldiers in a battle as it involves arming them, and they may use their weapons to turn upon their masters.

Drow who practice chattel slavery but arm their slaves to fight in battle thus have converted the slave to a conscripted slave. A lord in a feudalistic society who conscripts his serfs into a makeshift militia is likewise embracing a conscript form of slavery. A draft that is issued by a republic or democratic government also falls under this definition, as well as any mandatory military service based upon age and/or gender.

It should be noted, however, that conscript slavery goes beyond a military. An order of Wizards who has a strong influence throughout a nation or kingdom may conscript all who have arcane abilities into their order, forcing them to become members and undergo training.

* Inter-Societal Slavery: This includes all individuals within a society that lack either the mental nimbleness or personal power to avoid a lower position within its society. Such a position may be obtained due to an inability to organize successfully, an inability to cope with leadership when it is attained by a stronger individual or group, a lack of ambition due to lackluster mental ability, a lack of ambition due to fear of failure (and likewise an inability to imagine success), and an inability to compete in societal politics.

This may be one race or culture dominating another, but it is always defined as a co-existence of two separate and distinct groups within a society in which one group is clearly subservient to the other.

A race or culture that lacks the proper leadership, or has ineffective leadership, can doom themselves to subservience in a society.

* Demigod Slavery: This is the implied and obvious superiority of a single individual who can issue any order unquestioned to the group as a whole, thus enacting a form of slavery against the larger group. Dragons are perhaps most notorious for this, although fiends are very close behind. The society operates within its own spheres and can usually operate without the governing entity's direct influence; but all wealth, sweat, and blood the society produces are at the immediate call of its imposing patron.

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None of this actually touches on the daily life of a slave or the long lasting impacts of slavery as both are irrelevant to this discussion. I am interested in expanding this list and getting feedback.

If you can think of a type of slavery not listed here you are encouraged to post.

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Originally posted by Hoondatha

Hmm. After doing some research, I may stand corrected, at least if we're going to use the antebellum south as a reference.

Here's a link with probably more than you ever wanted to know about the subject: http://www.measuringworth.com/slavery.php

The short answer is that if you just adjust for inflation, the average $800 slave in 1850 is today about $12,000. But if you factor in a more realistic assessment of what the wealth actually meant, it's more like $80,000 or more.

Given those numbers, I think it would be more realistic to accept something in the general area of the Pathfinder numbers, though again I think it would depend a great deal on where the slave is being sold, and where the slave came from, among other factors.

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Originally posted by Markustay

On another site, a while back (like seven years or more) I managed to scrounge-up an actual price list for slaves from the early Americas.

Here's the thing: YES, it might actually be cheaper for you to pay a normal person wages for entire lifetime then buy one slave... but slaves breed. The idea is to buy a bunch and breed them, and then the new ones are 'free'. That's how it becomes cost-effective

And children sell for more then adults, for various (unsavory) reasons, so you don't even have to feed them for 16+ years to get your investment back. One reason is that 2nd+ generation slaves are more 'docile' and easier to manage.

Its an ugly business, but one that's been around a LONG time (the second oldest profession?)

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Originally posted by Gyor

You forgot economic slavery, the kind that is still practiced in our society. The poor are effectively enslavedby thier lack of resources and desperation and forced by society and thier need to survive into sweatshops, like the one that sad collapsed in Bangladesh. That's slavery too because if they didn't have to choice between starvation and working in that whole no one would have.

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