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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Apr 2013 : 19:55:18
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((okay maybe not, seems I may be wrong and some of this is already covered))
but the tablets that caused the times of troubles are being rewritten , which will cause a shift in power, and force things in a new pecking order.
One tid bit of interest, Amadeus, or however his name is spelled, will be retained as a god. **Can give a source to this on Friday, but can't steal the persons thunder due to job security of said person**
Edit Two: The blood war will resume and be of a greater significance for the first half, and then tapper down.
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Edited by - silverwolfer on 16 Apr 2013 20:00:27
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2013 : 02:51:34
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| Well, I for one am hoping this pans out. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
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http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2013 : 03:07:03
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quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer
One tid bit of interest, Amadeus, or however his name is spelled, will be retained as a god.
I've long felt that the Realms could use some more Mozart.  |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
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Edited by - Artemas Entreri on 17 Apr 2013 03:07:24 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36906 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2013 : 04:29:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Entreri3478
quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer
One tid bit of interest, Amadeus, or however his name is spelled, will be retained as a god.
I've long felt that the Realms could use some more Mozart.
So he'll be Bach for 5E? I don't know if I can Handel that... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2013 : 06:00:20
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Interesting. As I posted in another thread sometime ago, I thought the Blood War needs to be brought to the limelight. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Venger
Learned Scribe
USA
269 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2013 : 08:10:47
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| The return of the Blood War would definitely be nice. That change was a bit of a headscratcher and I never really understood it. How does ending the Blood war improve D&D campaign settings? |
"Beware what you say when you speak of magic, wizard, or you shall see who has the greater power." |
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Lord Bane
Senior Scribe
Germany
479 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2013 : 10:21:17
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| Bringing back the Blood War is a good sign, letīs hope it causes Asmodeus to concentrate back on planar matters and not put his nose in the Realms like in 4e. Yes i did not like him becoming a god. |
The driving force in the multiverse is evil, for it forces good to act. |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
896 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2013 : 15:18:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Entreri3478
quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer
One tid bit of interest, Amadeus, or however his name is spelled, will be retained as a god.
I've long felt that the Realms could use some more Mozart.
So he'll be Bach for 5E? I don't know if I can Handel that...
Ok ok, Liszt get bach on topic please.
This all sounds very good by the way |
Edited by - Kilvan on 17 Apr 2013 15:20:35 |
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Mapolq
Senior Scribe
Brazil
466 Posts |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2013 : 15:27:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Bane
Bringing back the Blood War is a good sign, letīs hope it causes Asmodeus to concentrate back on planar matters and not put his nose in the Realms like in 4e. Yes i did not like him becoming a god.
The new excerpt from Godborn hinted that Azzy might be sticking his nose more in the Realms to keep tabs on what the ambitious Mephistopheles is doing. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
896 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2013 : 15:36:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Bane
Bringing back the Blood War is a good sign, letīs hope it causes Asmodeus to concentrate back on planar matters and not put his nose in the Realms like in 4e. Yes i did not like him becoming a god.
The new excerpt from Godborn hinted that Azzy might be sticking his nose more in the Realms to keep tabs on what the ambitious Mephistopheles is doing.
I'd wish that Asmodeus would finally hit a wall and fall back to a lesser status. Not that I don't like the guy, but everything is just running too smoothly for him. I never liked how he got to greater god status by killing an injured lesser god.
And I like my devils to be on par with my demons. Without the blood war, nothing stop either the demons or the devils to just swoop in and take the material plane, which was the point of the blood war in the first place! This might have been the biggest flaw of 4e for me, and I'm glad they are taking measures into solving it. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2013 : 15:58:05
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The 'New & Improved' Tablets of Fate thing was covered at the last Gencon.
As for Asmodeus... I just assumed they were keeping him around. Anything that is working for Pathfinder will be used in FR/5e... it just makes sense to cherry-pick your competitors.
Not that THEY invented Asmodeus lol... they just finally used him to good affect.
Personally, I've always had Asmodeus a major player in The Realms... the folk of my FR just call him Bane. 
EDIT: I just had an idea - perhaps they are going to leave most of the finite details of the new tablets vague/undetailed, so that each DM can hand-tailor specifically how everything works in his Realms (which means you can 'pick your own gods'). I have no idea if thats what they are intending, but it would fit-in with the rest of their plans. The 'Tablets of Fate' then becomes a DM tool for house rules.
Maybe they should provide a blank booklet with the 5eCG with that title in the initial release, as an 'extra goody' for early adopters (and to promote the idea that FR is YOUR world).  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 17 Apr 2013 16:04:45 |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1628 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2013 : 17:32:15
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Looking forward to friday :D
I like Asmodeaus as a God, he had the power equal to one thanks his control of hell. And the Abyss cancels that out via having vastly more numbers and layers. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12084 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2013 : 20:39:21
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| just wondering, they ever state what happened to Gargauth between 3E and 4E? What about the Knights of the Shield that he was controlling? I'd love to see Gargauth stick it to both Asmodeus and Mephistopheles somehow. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2013 : 23:04:38
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I wonder how this is going to affect the novels. Sure, the DM has more freedom in the gaming world, but you can't very well "decide" what happens in the books.
But...the novels were based off the game, so the game comes first, I suppose. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2013 : 00:29:53
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Never liked Asmodeus as a deity. It's antithetic to what Asmodeus is supposed to be. The absence of belief in the deities and submission to his power instead. Asmodeus, in fact, never needed to be a "god", he was both paradoxically above and below such a status. In fact, I would say he is just beyond such a status, really. I won't say a Primordial, but something else entirely.
Now Gargauth staging himself to be a deity (and succeeded) and gaining more power and having one goal being a 10th Lord of Hell was far more enticing and intricate a plot and character than Asmodeus.
In my Realms game, Asmodeus has servants doing his work behind the scenes as he does on dozens of other worlds. They still remain "cult status" in the Realms, but an extremely powerful one at that. In fact, their power is distinctly kept hidden to avoid direct confrontations, but they can pull more strings than the Zhents, Cult of the Dragon, Knights of the Shield, Twisted Rune, and Red Wizards combined.
In other words, some web-laden intrigues that are so thick that just when you get to the last web string you finally found the true culprit---a servant of Asmodeus is always the one web string you missed and vanishes before you could figure it out. :D |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2013 : 01:28:18
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Yep, I've never liked the archdevils and demon lords/princes as deities either. My view was that you could worship them or seek their favour and through "pacts" they could grant you spells - no game rules attached otherthan to perhaps specify just what spells they granted. Of course, this would spawn a myriad of discussions as to "how" they could grant spells if they aren't deities with a thousand people telling you they can't, another thousand people telling you they can, and a further thousand telling you they can't but they can if ...
Given a devil/demon worshipper with cleric spells would be an NPC/monster does it really matter? Not in my Realms.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Kris the Grey
Senior Scribe
USA
422 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2013 : 02:01:48
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I have to wonder how much of this has to do with Ed's mastery of all things Nine Hells related?
There certainly have been strong Realms/Hells connections running all the way back to double digit Dragon magazines...Elminster in Hell was pretty indicative of that. Lol. |
Kris the Grey - Member in Good Standing of the Watchful Order of Magists and Protectors, the Arcane Guild of Silverymoon, and the Connecticut Bar Association |
Edited by - Kris the Grey on 18 Apr 2013 02:04:07 |
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2013 : 20:59:29
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| I agree that devils and demons shouldn't be deities. They should exist to steal the worship of Gods... |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12084 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2013 : 00:14:53
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Yep, I've never liked the archdevils and demon lords/princes as deities either. My view was that you could worship them or seek their favour and through "pacts" they could grant you spells - no game rules attached otherthan to perhaps specify just what spells they granted. Of course, this would spawn a myriad of discussions as to "how" they could grant spells if they aren't deities with a thousand people telling you they can't, another thousand people telling you they can, and a further thousand telling you they can't but they can if ...
Given a devil/demon worshipper with cleric spells would be an NPC/monster does it really matter? Not in my Realms.
-- George Krashos
Not that I've really read anything about the latest Lolth/Mystra fiasco other than what I've seen here.... but maybe that demonweave is something that the demon/devil lords learned to tap into to grant power to their followers without being deities. Of course, that opens up exactly the same arguments you were just talking about. How do they channel the power? Why can't they cast 9th level cleric spells if they can grant them? etc...
But yeah, I feel the same way, I never liked devil lords as deities (other than Gargauth, because he was special like that... and he wasn't a lord in hell.. he was an exile).
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12084 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2013 : 00:15:18
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Yep, I've never liked the archdevils and demon lords/princes as deities either. My view was that you could worship them or seek their favour and through "pacts" they could grant you spells - no game rules attached otherthan to perhaps specify just what spells they granted. Of course, this would spawn a myriad of discussions as to "how" they could grant spells if they aren't deities with a thousand people telling you they can't, another thousand people telling you they can, and a further thousand telling you they can't but they can if ...
Given a devil/demon worshipper with cleric spells would be an NPC/monster does it really matter? Not in my Realms.
-- George Krashos
Not that I've really read anything about the latest Lolth/Mystra fiasco other than what I've seen here.... but maybe that demonweave is something that the demon/devil lords learned to tap into to grant power to their followers without being deities. Of course, that opens up exactly the same arguments you were just talking about. How do they channel the power? Why can't they cast 9th level cleric spells if they can grant them? etc...
But yeah, I feel the same way, I never liked devil lords as deities (other than Gargauth, because he was special like that... and he wasn't a lord in hell.. he was an exile).
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2013 : 12:29:47
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| The problem is if another being can become a god by absorbing devine essence why shouldn't a devil or demon be able to? |
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe
485 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2013 : 13:49:00
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quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
The problem is if another being can become a god by absorbing devine essence why shouldn't a devil or demon be able to?
I think it's more of a case of that they are just better and more useful as they are. Gods come and go but demons and devils are forever! Lol |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1628 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2013 : 14:53:46
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
just wondering, they ever state what happened to Gargauth between 3E and 4E? What about the Knights of the Shield that he was controlling? I'd love to see Gargauth stick it to both Asmodeus and Mephistopheles somehow.
They've never stated what happened to Gargauth in 4e, its just another mystery. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36906 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2013 : 17:22:19
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quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
The problem is if another being can become a god by absorbing devine essence why shouldn't a devil or demon be able to?
I personally would say that some types of entities could not absorb divine essence. This is of course how it would be if I called the shots, and is not canon. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2013 : 17:41:15
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quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
The problem is if another being can become a god by absorbing devine essence why shouldn't a devil or demon be able to?
Id like to think the nature of archdevils, including their innate power, dilutes whatever divine essence they absorb. They get more powerful (and perhaps wiser, wilder, or more murderous, depending on the portfolios they acquire), but essentially, they retain their original nature. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1628 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2013 : 18:10:40
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| Btw wasn't the source of this info supposed to be revealed today? |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2013 : 18:32:10
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Press release got cancled :-(. Something about planescape being considered
I will get you more info once she is off the plane. |
Edited by - silverwolfer on 19 Apr 2013 18:33:56 |
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2013 : 19:55:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Bane
Bringing back the Blood War is a good sign, letīs hope it causes Asmodeus to concentrate back on planar matters and not put his nose in the Realms like in 4e. Yes i did not like him becoming a god.
As the ruler of Baator he neither needed to become a deity, nor should he have even been remotely concerned about becoming a deity. Making him one in 4e grossly contradicted planar lore on the topic, but it was hardly the most egregious retcon that took place (archons, eladrin, entire planes and their inhabitants vanishing as if they'd never existed, all tieflings all of sudden becoming diabolic and all looking alike, etc).
It's a mess that IMO can only be easily restored to order by retconning a number of those 4e changes and explaining away or rationalizing some others with additional information in 5e. Planar continuity w/regards to FR is quite convoluted at this point, with a number of mutually exclusive pieces of lore clashing.
Ideally we'd go back to FR as part of the Great Wheel, but I doubt that I'll have that wish granted. But I can still wish. :) |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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Lord Bane
Senior Scribe
Germany
479 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2013 : 20:55:43
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Letīs vote for Shemmy as planar continuity guardian for 5e Realms.
You have my support demanding a return to the days when Sigil was the center and the planes around it interacted and all things got their place in the greater picture. I didnīt like the planar retcons forced on the realms by the points of light approach or the streamlining of planar creatures to fit a certain agenda. It took away much flair and left it a road with many holes in it.
They still owe us the explanation what happened with a certain demon lord of sexually tempting winged women when all her workforce suddenly becomes baatezu (a prime example of sloppy design). |
The driving force in the multiverse is evil, for it forces good to act. |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2013 : 01:45:42
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I'll be casting my vote against Shemmy, I'm afraid. While I'm often impressed by her knowledge of planar lore of previous editions, the simple fact is that regardless of continuity, I think 4e did it better. I enjoyed the 4e lore moreso than what was there before.
Asmodeus' plots are vast and incomprehensible to those of us who can't think in terms of eons. There's no reason becoming a god shouldn't be a part of them. There's no reason he shouldn't have been a god in the first place(as is the case in Points of Light and Pathfinder). Deity and archfiend are not mutually exclusive terms. Becoming one doesn't mean you stop being the other.
As for the Blood War...fire it back up. It's a glorious thing, to have so many demons to kill again. I was rather excited when the Blood War ended. I thought that would be a major plot point. They had built up for years that once the Blood War ended, the rest of the multiverse was essentially doomed. Not only that, the Blood War ending was something that was specific to the Realms. It wasn't over in Points of Light, just kinda cooled off. I really wish they had done something with that, but I suppose it's a plot thread that just got lost in the shuffle. So it's one snap back I don't particularly mind. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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New information on the sundering revealed
