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Signal-9
Acolyte
Canada
37 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Jan 2004 : 06:34:06
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I was wondering if anyone else thought it would be a good idea for authors to supply maps with their novels?
Im a big dragonlance fan (hence my signature), but I am getting into the FR novels now. I was very surprised to notice they do not supply maps with their novels. (sorry if some do).
HOW COME ?!? im sure it is not a money issue.
Thanks 
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"Dont make him come near me, Tanis !. I assure you. I am capable of this, truly. What i have sought all my life is within my grasp. I will let nothing stop me. Look at Caramon's face, Tanis ! He Knows ! I kiled him once. I can do it again..."
- Raistlin (Dragons of Spring Dawning)
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2004 : 07:56:58
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A lot of authors don't use maps in their books. Partially it's because they don't think it necessary. Other times, it might be so that readers don't see mistakes. (I've seen a few.) However, in the Forgotten Realms, there are maps for the setting. Perhaps they assumed we'd be picking those up too.
I do understand your frustration. I was on the brink of sketching together the fragments of maps from different books when I finally happened upon a copy of the Forgotten Realms Atlas.
What in particular are you looking for? |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2004 : 10:33:08
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Back in the old days of TSR....
::looks at the other scribes who grown at Rad's opening line:: 
....hmmmm, many of the older FR novels contained maps at the front. I often flicked back whilst reading to see locations and events and found the maps very useful.
In addition, the Forgotten Realms Atlas (the book, not the CD-ROM) was FANTASTIC and still remains in my top 5 FR products. As well as maps of the Realms, it includes novel specific maps showing the events and paths of the characters - such as the Moonshae Trilogy, Avatar Trilogy, Icewind Dale....
Cool If only they kept it up and did this for other novels too. Now where did I put my wish list?  |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2004 : 12:39:00
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Yes. Those battlemaps for Icewind Dale were nice. And I especially liked the cutaway diagrams of inns and other buildings -- I like that sort of detail.
I'd suggest we form a petition . . . but since when has Wizards listened to their customers?  |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31777 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2004 : 14:34:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Rad
Back in the old days of TSR....
::looks at the other scribes who grown at Rad's opening line::
....hmmmm, many of the older FR novels contained maps at the front. I often flicked back whilst reading to see locations and events and found the maps very useful.
In addition, the Forgotten Realms Atlas (the book, not the CD-ROM) was FANTASTIC and still remains in my top 5 FR products. As well as maps of the Realms, it includes novel specific maps showing the events and paths of the characters - such as the Moonshae Trilogy, Avatar Trilogy, Icewind Dale....
Cool If only they kept it up and did this for other novels too. Now where did I put my wish list?
Those maps were very useful indeed  . I used to study them for hours while reading the earlier FR novels. They would also be a great help to me when creating my own lands for game play, or more likely, creating regions for my earlier fantasy stories that I had written.
Nearly everybody I knew (who liked reading about the Realms) who didn't have a copy of the ol'grey box and it's accessory maps of the Realms, would head to the library every time a new FR novel (with maps) was released, and photocopy each and every map, so they could have some idea of what the Realms actually looked like...
Ah...those were the days...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Signal-9
Acolyte
Canada
37 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2004 : 19:01:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
A lot of authors don't use maps in their books. Partially it's because they don't think it necessary. Other times, it might be so that readers don't see mistakes. (I've seen a few.) However, in the Forgotten Realms, there are maps for the setting. Perhaps they assumed we'd be picking those up too.
I do understand your frustration. I was on the brink of sketching together the fragments of maps from different books when I finally happened upon a copy of the Forgotten Realms Atlas.
What in particular are you looking for?
I am not very frustrated; I searched a few websites to get the land mass coordinated in my head. But I always liked to speculate where the character in my book may go, or where they have been.
I also re-think after each reading segment where the plot may go. And know the land and the surrounding area's really help me in predicting the outcome of future events.
I am reading the Sembia series right now, and I am pretty sure everything will stay in Selgaunt (no spoilers please.) so its not a big deal...right now...
quote:
posted by rad
....hmmmm, many of the older FR novels contained maps at the front. I often flicked back whilst reading to see locations and events and found the maps very useful.
That is nice to hear. But they re-printed alot of the old novels and I have a feeling the maps may not be included. |
"Dont make him come near me, Tanis !. I assure you. I am capable of this, truly. What i have sought all my life is within my grasp. I will let nothing stop me. Look at Caramon's face, Tanis ! He Knows ! I kiled him once. I can do it again..."
- Raistlin (Dragons of Spring Dawning)
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Edited by - Signal-9 on 25 Jan 2004 19:03:52 |
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Kameron M. Franklin
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
228 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2004 : 21:47:17
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Just a slight correction . . .
I have heard (from the mouth of James Lowder, no less) that it is ultimately the editor's decision to include a map or not. Some author's request it, others do not.
The reprints of the first three Avatar books included the original maps. |
"You keep saying that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." --Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride |
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Lina
Senior Scribe
Australia
469 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2004 : 04:09:29
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Being a heavy reader myself, I sometimes find the use of maps helpful in getting my bearings but if the storyline isn't too focused on locations, ie most of the stuff happens within a city and characters don't go globetrotting, in that case having a map is purely unnecessary but eyepleasing. Except in cases where they put too much into a map so it becomes confusing and overcrowded. Let me remind those map-makers about LIMITS. Yes there are limits especially if:
i) the map is in black and white; too many lines trying to distingush between land and sea blurs the definite outlines of islands and continents; showing moutainous and forest regions can be a little overdone; proportions on a map between locales are a bit sketchy especially when illustrations of castles etc are used instead of pinpoints.
ii) similarity with the use of colours - can be a triffle overdone.
iii) key locations in the story are not shown on the map
iv) legends are not included so you have to work out what some funny sketches on the page are.
v) they try to fit two different places onto the same map/page ie the continent and in the corner enlargement of a city. Gets a bit hard on the eyes.
vi) overuse of illustrations - adds to overcrowd the map
Well if I've missed out any your welcome to add to the list.
I think the FR Altas is useful too.  Thanks Rad. 
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“Darkness beyond twilight, crimson beyond blood that flows! Buried in the flow of time. In thy great name. I pledge myself to darkness. All the fools who stand in our way shall be destroyed…by the power you and I possess! DRAGON SLAVE!!!”
"Thieves? Ah, such an ugly word... look upon them as the most honest sort of merchant."
-Oglar the Thieflord |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2004 : 17:27:33
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| Even staying in the cities can be confusing. In Elfshadow, it's hard to keep track when they're moving around inside Waterdeep. The map that's included shows the Sword Coast and all, but nothing on the streets of the city. It was nice, when I finally got the FRA, to be able to figure out things like where Elaith's place was. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2004 : 02:31:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Yes. Those battlemaps for Icewind Dale were nice. And I especially liked the cutaway diagrams of inns and other buildings -- I like that sort of detail.
I'd suggest we form a petition . . . but since when has Wizards listened to their customers?
Not since the days of TSR, Bookwyrm, not since TSR..... But on another note, where did you pick up this amazing FR Atlas. I could use such a tome...... |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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Adrian Moonbow
Seeker
Denmark
64 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2004 : 09:51:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadowlord
Not since the days of TSR, Bookwyrm, not since TSR..... But on another note, where did you pick up this amazing FR Atlas. I could use such a tome......
Ooo, I can answer that. It was a 2nd edition companion that summarised the journeys of a few of the novel characters (Avatar trilogy, one of the first Drizzt trilogies, Moonshae trilogy). Most like a walkthrough (or the red travel-line from Indiana Jones). I have a hard time browsing through it without humming the tune for Indiana Jones! |
"I would have wanted not to die.
I would have wanted never to grow up!"
-Quidam
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arilyn742
Seeker
Ireland
54 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2004 : 00:44:34
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I can't get enough of these! RAS uses them a lot, but I really don't think their are enough FR novels with maps.
Although admittedly I can only get my hands on the big name ones, so the only ones I've seen without maps were Dissolution and The Dream Spheres... |
Yonde iru, mune no doko ka oku de
Itsumo kokoro odoru yume wo mitai
Kanashimi wa kazoekirenai keredo
Sono mukou de kitto anata ni aeru |
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VEDSICA
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2004 : 22:05:49
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| I like it when there are maps no matter what the setting is.Whether in a city or not.Just so I can get the feel of direction when the characters are moving from place to place. |
LIFE,BIRTH,BLOOD,DOOM---THE HOLE IN THE GROUND IS COMING ROUND SOON----BLS |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2004 : 22:15:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Adrian Moonbow
quote:
Originally posted by Shadowlord
Not since the days of TSR, Bookwyrm, not since TSR..... But on another note, where did you pick up this amazing FR Atlas. I could use such a tome......
Ooo, I can answer that. It was a 2nd edition companion that summarised the journeys of a few of the novel characters (Avatar trilogy, one of the first Drizzt trilogies, Moonshae trilogy). Most like a walkthrough (or the red travel-line from Indiana Jones). I have a hard time browsing through it without humming the tune for Indiana Jones!
Many thanks, though I am looking for something a bit more 3.5e I think Wizards should remake another atlas for the newer addition. |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2004 : 23:26:53
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| Another atlas would be nice, especially considering the have changed the realms geography since Second Edition, and things re not necessary where they were in the original Atlas. |
Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep
"Mmmpie"
- Gaius Solarian, Captain General |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2004 : 23:34:52
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| Yes, thats true. Actually, I would like something that shows the full layout of Cormanthor, as that's where my campaign is taking place. |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31777 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2004 : 03:22:25
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Shadowlord, given the popularity of adventuring in Cormanthyr, I'm sure that if you search around on the net, you'll find some interesting maps of the region that you can probably make use of...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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JamesLowder
Forgotten Realms Author & Game Designer
USA
310 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2004 : 04:02:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Kameron M. Franklin
I have heard (from the mouth of James Lowder, no less) that it is ultimately the editor's decision to include a map or not. Some author's request it, others do not.
Maps cost WotC money to create, which means WotC, through their editorial staff, has final say on their presence in an individual book or series. There are also series/trilogy design concerns--if the first Rogues book lacks a map, for example, there is less design incentive for the second book to feature one. Individual authors might be able to lobby successfully for exceptions on design matters, but rarely on budget matters.
Cheers,
Jim Lowder |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31777 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2004 : 04:11:44
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Thanks for that Mr Lowder...it certainly explains WotC current thinking on including maps with novels. Although I'm still a little disappointed this trend doesn't get the focus it should, I can now understand why the editorial staff have made the decision.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2004 : 21:22:11
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| Greetings, I'm yet another refugee from the Novels board, though I wasn't nearly as active as many. I just wanted to say that my favorite map of Cormanthyr is included in the Fall of Myth Drannor adventure. It shows the entire forest, along with many major and minor population centers and the location of all major battles during the Fall. It's got greater bredth than any of the maps in the novels, though I agree that I really enjoy book maps. It gives me something to ground myself in, especially when there's overland travel involved (Elfsong comes to mind, as do a bunch of others), or the setting is completely unknown to me (Black Boquet). |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2004 : 21:33:23
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| Ah, how could I have overlooked this tome!?!?! My thanks, new scribe. |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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dbassingthwaite
Forgotten Realms Author
Canada
64 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2004 : 03:32:12
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quote:
Originally posted by JamesLowder
[There are also series/trilogy design concerns--if the first Rogues book lacks a map, for example, there is less design incentive for the second book to feature one.
Actually, the Rogues series is a good example (speaking from experience! ) I don't know at what point the decision was made to include maps in books, but well after I turned in The Yellow Silk, my editor came back and asked if I had a map because all of the other books in the series had at least some kind of map. I had never even thought about maps until then.
It was actually pretty cool - no map of Spandeliyon (where the novel is set) existed so I got to sketch something up and map guy Dennis Kauth turned it into the awesome piece that's in the book!
In the case of The Yellow Silk, I don't think not having a map would really have hurt enjoyment of the story (it's not the sort of thing where knowing absolute relationships is necessary), but it's neat to have it there.
Don |
Don Bassingthwaite
www.sff.net/people/dbassing |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2004 : 07:02:21
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No problem Shadowlord, it's one of my favorite sourcebooks, and I like trotting it out and waving it around for others to see.
And I'm glad that editors are asking for maps. Some of the newer series seem to be doing what the Harpers series did: namely, set stories in places no one's heard of. When I have a story set in a completely unknown location (and not just, "oh, I've never had a novel set there," but, "ok, where the heck is this place?"), it's nice to give some background, even if it's just a map. Maps tell lots. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Maps with novels
