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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Feb 2013 : 02:33:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Khelben may 'be' The Blackstaff... but he ain't the only guy to ever carry a black staff. 
I've always gone off the assumption that that was one Manshoon looking at others, since thats the book the Clone Wars was in.
Of course he's not the only guy with a black staff, but if I'm doing a realms painting, and I paint a mid-50ish wizard, in good shape, with a white stripe in his short beard, AND a black staff than that wizard is Khelben Arunsun.
Otherwise it would be like someone painting a old grizzled beak nosed wizard with long white/gray hair and beard smoking a floating pipe for the cover of a realms product. Would anyone think its not El? The characters have their basic attribute too clearly defined.
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2013 : 03:29:36
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| I was under the impression it was Khelben...there are two different covers of the book...and the second is far less questionable about who it appears to be to me. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2013 : 03:41:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
I was under the impression it was Khelben...there are two different covers of the book...and the second is far less questionable about who it appears to be to me.
Before Dalor posted that I'd never seen the second image. Both are included in Amazon.com's listing for the item, here:
http://www.amazon.com/Cloak-Dagger-Forgotten-Realms-Wizards/dp/0786916273
This makes me certain it is Khelben and the middle crystal displays Fzoul. Oddly, the image of Vampshoon is less obvious. I still do not know who the left crystal is looking at.
Anyone recognize that guy? The triangle has to be the clue.
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2013 : 03:45:59
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| Perhaps it is Teldorn Darkhope? Looking very closely he appears to have an image on his face... the mark of Xvim maybe? idk. |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2013 : 04:18:42
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| Yeah, I think it's supposed to be Darkhope. In the original portrait of him in Empires of the Shining Sea (sorry, I can't find the image online), he has that triangle on his chest as well. In it there is a Hand of Bane. Other places where you see the symbol of bane it is usually in a shield shape, but I guess Teldorn's tailor took a little artistic license. :P |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2013 : 08:30:38
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
You know what they say, get a lemon, make lemonade. Maybe the Phaerimm had seized control of the Zhent leadership in Zhentil Keep. The Shadovar didn't feel like working through all the loose strings to find the puppetmasters, and instead they just simply smacked Zhentil Keep. Of course, I say all this and I hadn't even read the original reference (didn't know Zhentil Keep was destroyed by Shade... but it does make sense that those two power groups, so close together, would eventually come to blows).
Not canon, but I like this possibility. "When you can't reach the roots, then just cut and burn the trunk."
Like most of the phaerimm's thralls in The Return of the Archwizards, the mind-controlled Zhents might not even be aware of their "hidden" masters. Or the phaerimm offered the Zhent leaders some irresistible bargain. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 24 Feb 2013 08:43:40 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2013 : 12:32:26
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As I said before, the simplest solutions is that the Phaerimm were controlling the beholders that control the keep. Occam's razor and all of that.
That simple fix made me go from really not liking that lore (concerning their alliance) to completely understanding how such a thing could be (in light of past lore... which some designers tend to ignore at their convenience). The Zhents WERE chattel to the Phaerimm, and they were using them the same way they used the bugbears in RotAW.
As for that pic on the cover of C&D - I never gave it much thought (and never - sadly - read completely through that tome either, even though I had it for years). Like I said, I thought it was Manshoon, looking at other Manshoons, and since that particular plot left me flat (and probably why I never really bothered with that book), if anything the cover just reminded me of why I didn't want to read it.
This is all based on when I used to just run FR, and wasn't really a fan of it yet. The 'wheels within wheels' stuff didn't interest me at all at that point, because I wasn't running that kind of campaign back then. If I were to come across that book now (for the first time), I'd probably thoroughly enjoy it. Unfortunately, my perception of it has already been tainted, so when I do see that cover, I subconsciously say, "No thanks, I'll pass". |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 24 Feb 2013 12:33:10 |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2013 : 13:32:45
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Does Jeff Easley lend his voice here? That's his work so he'd know if no one else does.
I'm more convinced than before that it is Khelben. Look behind him to the left. It looks to me like there is a black staff leaning against the shelf in the corner.
Also I found another detail on the 3rd (left) image. He is wearing a diamond shaped brooch or pin or something on his chest.
Steven Schend pops up occasionally, Im sure he could sort it out. But Im fairly sure it's Khelben as well. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2013 : 07:19:16
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George Krashos on the cover plus a link to another unused cover that more accurately portrays Khelben.
Cheers
Damian
*****************************
I am neither of the worthies you asked for help on this one, but I can tell you that the "older wizard" is Khelben "Blackstaff" Arunsun.
The original cover mock-up, which I link to below, makes that clearer:
http://book-covers.lucywho.com/forgotten-realms-nobles-book-covers-t2578487.html
-- George Krashos |
So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2013 : 08:03:06
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Yeah - it all makes good sense once you think about it. Khelben is looking in on how thing are working out with the Zhentarim. Teldorn, Fzoul, and Manshoon (one of them at least).
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2013 : 12:10:41
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| I stumbled across a new spell "Eidolon" - well new to me at least. Perhaps Manshoon is doing this. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2013 : 14:07:43
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Yeah - it all makes good sense once you think about it. Khelben is looking in on how thing are working out with the Zhentarim. Teldorn, Fzoul, and Manshoon (one of them at least).
The more I think about it, the more I reckon that in the cover's first draft, the middle scrying stone was indeed meant to be Fzoul, but the second version got changed so that the central picture was Semmemon. The middle guy's hair is too dark to be Fzoul's red hair in my book.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2013 : 22:45:09
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Yeah - it all makes good sense once you think about it. Khelben is looking in on how thing are working out with the Zhentarim. Teldorn, Fzoul, and Manshoon (one of them at least).
The more I think about it, the more I reckon that in the cover's first draft, the middle scrying stone was indeed meant to be Fzoul, but the second version got changed so that the central picture was Semmemon. The middle guy's hair is too dark to be Fzoul's red hair in my book.
-- George Krashos
Nah. Def. Fzoul - red tinge on hair, stupid looking cape flairs and all :P |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2013 : 22:45:52
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Yeah - it all makes good sense once you think about it. Khelben is looking in on how thing are working out with the Zhentarim. Teldorn, Fzoul, and Manshoon (one of them at least).
The more I think about it, the more I reckon that in the cover's first draft, the middle scrying stone was indeed meant to be Fzoul, but the second version got changed so that the central picture was Semmemon. The middle guy's hair is too dark to be Fzoul's red hair in my book.
-- George Krashos
Nah. Def. Fzoul - red tinge on hair, stupid looking cape flairs and all :P |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2013 : 23:10:41
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Maybe its Mordenkainen, looking in on Raisltin, Dr. Strange, and Strahd.
You never know. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2013 : 02:10:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Maybe its Mordenkainen, looking in on Raisltin, Dr. Strange, and Strahd.
You never know.
Strahd would not be caught dead with that hair :D |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2013 : 02:19:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Maybe its Mordenkainen, looking in on Raisltin, Dr. Strange, and Strahd.
You never know.
Great. Just what Strange needs... more extra-dimensional troublemakers looking over his shoulder. As if the Vishanti weren't already enough of a problem...  |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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shade attack on zhentil keep
