| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Feb 2013 : 20:03:47
|
I don't believe Manshoon would obsess over killing Elminster or another rival pointlessly or opportunistically. He would obsess over removing a rival only when needing to remove an obstacle or when needing to seize power. That is, simply hating on Elminster (as noble as that may be!) isn't in itself a productive Manshoon activity, while plotting to measure or distract or neutralize Elminster in the hopes of obtaining new magic droppings or spellbooks or somesuch would be productive.
Manshoon, even Vampshoon, must be well aware that attacking beings like Larloch or Telamont woule be insane and futile. I think it more likely he'd be content to (secretly) spy on such rivals, perhaps even attempt to align himself with them or play them against each other or simply position himself advantageously while while each works at crosswise purposes.
If/when Manshoon does indeed kamikaze on a target it would be a most calculated maneuver. He would likely prepare a number of banzai clones, loading them with spells and items designed to methodically achieve special objectives or inflict reeling quantities of overkill damage. And he would probably - in usual Manshoon fashion - employ a network of underlings, agents, spies, assassins, hired adventurers, mercenaries, corrupt officials, and clueless pawns to promote his efforts across multiple battle fronts ... Manshoon is not usually a suicidal individual, and his clones aren't cheap either, he would exact maximum gains while spending his life/death on a hard target and he would engineer situations where he seizes some tangible advantage even when one critical prong on his attack strategy fails. |
[/Ayrik] |
 |
|
|
The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2013 : 21:18:08
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I don't believe Manshoon would obsess over killing Elminster or another rival pointlessly or opportunistically. He would obsess over removing a rival only when needing to remove an obstacle or when needing to seize power. That is, simply hating on Elminster (as noble as that may be!) isn't in itself a productive Manshoon activity, while plotting to measure or distract or neutralize Elminster in the hopes of obtaining new magic droppings or spellbooks or somesuch would be productive.
Manshoon, even Vampshoon, must be well aware that attacking beings like Larloch or Telamont woule be insane and futile. I think it more likely he'd be content to (secretly) spy on such rivals, perhaps even attempt to align himself with them or play them against each other or simply position himself advantageously while while each works at crosswise purposes.
If/when Manshoon does indeed kamikaze on a target it would be a most calculated maneuver. He would likely prepare a number of banzai clones, loading them with spells and items designed to methodically achieve special objectives or inflict reeling quantities of overkill damage. And he would probably - in usual Manshoon fashion - employ a network of underlings, agents, spies, assassins, hired adventurers, mercenaries, corrupt officials, and clueless pawns to promote his efforts across multiple battle fronts ... Manshoon is not usually a suicidal individual, and his clones aren't cheap either, he would exact maximum gains while spending his life/death on a hard target and he would engineer situations where he seizes some tangible advantage even when one critical prong on his attack strategy fails.
I agree with the considered kamikaze, but it does seem in the recent Elminster books that Vampshoon has an obsession with eliminating Elminster, to the extend that he wastes time and resources (a large number of eye tyrants) he had planned to use elsewhere in the hopes he might manage to kill him off.
I DO NOT think that Manshoon is afraid of beholders. The only instance I have ever seen in anything where a beholder forced Manshoon to do something was a short story where Elminster impersonated a mighty beholder (sorry forget the title/names). In all other cases, Manshoon considers beholders worthy allies and useful tools, not terrors to shy away from.
Yes some of the more powerful beholders also think of him this way - a useful tool, not a human to be afraid of. This would be where I'd put Larloch too, they both consider each other useful and dangerous. |
|
|
|
crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2013 : 21:31:55
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
For me, Manshoon is the epitome of a 'in-your-face' villain. He hasn't graduated yet to the in-the-background master-schemer, even though he has the potential for it.
I personally think that the real Manshoon is actually quite adept at the scheming and dreaming and long term plans and that everyone else under estimates him, (which is what he wants).
He is excellent as the puppet master pulling the strings of all his clones sending them out to take on Shandaril or El or anyone else he fancies testing and observes the results at his leisure whilst all the while he sits safe and snug in his hidey-hole making notes and swooping in to grab the goodies that folks leave behind. As well as allowing Fzoul to take over the Zhentarim and become the target figure head allowing him freedom to work on some serious long term aims and goals without the daily grind of running the Black Network distracting him.
Remember all we have see in print of Manshoon (except for the cover of Cloak and Dagger) are the clones, not the real Manshoon at all.
Cheers
Damian |
So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
|
|
|
The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2013 : 23:00:31
|
| They are all "real" Manshoons... that's kinda the point. |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2013 : 01:13:06
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
They are all "real" Manshoons... that's kinda the point.
Actually, I've spun this a somewhat different way... playing heavily of the old Doombot scenario from Marvel's Fantastic Four.
Essentially, some Manshoon clones have started to suspect that they are more "real," or in fact embody the principles of the one-true Manshoon, more than some other clones. This has only ramped up the Manshoon Wars -- as these clones seek to prove that they are "the one-true Manshoon" when they confront any others. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2013 : 04:18:25
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
They are all "real" Manshoons... that's kinda the point.
Actually, I've spun this a somewhat different way... playing heavily of the old Doombot scenario from Marvel's Fantastic Four.
Essentially, some Manshoon clones have started to suspect that they are more "real," or in fact embody the principles of the one-true Manshoon, more than some other clones. This has only ramped up the Manshoon Wars -- as these clones seek to prove that they are "the one-true Manshoon" when they confront any others.
The Forgotten Realms meets Highlander?  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2013 : 05:23:40
|
| Yeah, that was covered in Highlander 3 - The Sorcerer |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2013 : 05:34:29
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Yeah, that was covered in Highlander 3 - The Sorcerer
All I remember about Highlander 3 was that it was a total rehash of Highlander 1, with nudity. Thankfully, that nudity was not Christopher Lambert! |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2013 : 05:37:11
|
| Highlander 3 was the one where they dug up a guy who was buried alive way back when and he had magic. A LOT like the movie version of The Shadow. |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2013 : 07:14:37
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
They are all "real" Manshoons... that's kinda the point.
Actually, I've spun this a somewhat different way... playing heavily of the old Doombot scenario from Marvel's Fantastic Four.
Essentially, some Manshoon clones have started to suspect that they are more "real," or in fact embody the principles of the one-true Manshoon, more than some other clones. This has only ramped up the Manshoon Wars -- as these clones seek to prove that they are "the one-true Manshoon" when they confront any others.
The Forgotten Realms meets Highlander?
More like the FORGOTTEN REALMS meets a really typical 90's issue of Fantastic Four.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2013 : 08:58:40
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
They are all "real" Manshoons... that's kinda the point.
I would disagree to some extent with this. Most of the clones are clones of clones of clones, so they all have slightly different memories from each other (dependant on when they were made) and also differing powers/spells/magics etc (again dependant on when they were made).
For instance: Prime Manshoon makes Manshoon clone 1 and lets him loose on the world and M1 makes 3 clones M2, M3 & M4. M1 dies straight away after making them and M2 sparks into life, he lives for 3 years gains a level and a new spell slot and makes a unique spell for that slot and also makes the M5 & M6 clones.
M2 dies and M3 sparks into life, one level less, without the memories of M2's last 3 years and no record of that unique spell - now extrapolate that across many clones and many years and there will be a variety of differences in each Manshoon. I am assuming that not all clones get updates by the current Manshoon touching them, probably because he doesn't know where they all are and also he selfishly doesn't want them all as powerful as he currently is.
And they are all no where near the power level of the Prime Manshoon who still exists in his extra dimensional hidey-hole and made that first clone a long time ago to take his place in the Zhentarim and be the target for everyone else allowing Prime M to quietly disappear and to build up knowledge and power (levels) way past the most proficient of his clones, he is the true manipulator of them all setting the current Manshoon clone off on a mission to destroy the Dragon Cult, knowing that another will take his place soon enough if he fails and also giving him chance to observe all that happens from a safe vantage point and take whatever he wants from what is left after the spell hurling ends.
Maybe the cloned Manshoons actually need to go boom after they start to realise that they are not the only living Manshoon alive. Perhaps each of them at some point in their existence knows that the original is out there and this sets of the clone madness that forces them to seek out the original and destroy him. Unfortunatly they can't find him and so vent their anger on Sembia/Shades/El/some random dinosaurs in the Stonelands etc which would explain why this up-to-now cool calm and collected Arch Mage suddenly goes beserk and pops into Shadowdale to kill Storm?
Does that make sense?
Cheers
Damian |
So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
|
|
|
The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2013 : 09:23:26
|
Its an interesting concept you have crazed, but its a new one, not one from the stasis clone spell.
What Manshoon did was create clones that wait in temporal stasis for him to die (or a contingency to trigger it, actually). That way upon his death, there would still be a Manshoon up and about. He didn't make a clone, send it in his place and see what happened.
Now, creating clones is a long, complicated process. This being the case, ever meticulous Manshoon made many clones, so that when the spit hit the fan he would not have to stop and make another before going about his business. Clone making was for off time, I'd imagine.
Then one day BAM they all woke up at the same time. No one know why.
AFTER this point, I'd say those clones that survived long enough AND managed to get a copy of the spellbook or recreate the stasis clone spell would then go about making new clones as safety precautions per their (Manshoon's) habits.
I DO think that one Manshoon rises to the top of the manipulation pyramid. I chose Manshoon Prime, mostly because I was a transformers kid and I like having my characters with the Prime in their name :P... In my mind he had the best shot, and according to cannon he got over 1/3 of Manshoon's cached loot/magic, making him immediately ready to take the steps I mentioned above AND get right to the business of eliminating other clones. I picture him being the Manshoon who swoops in at the ends of big Manshoon clone battles, kills the victor and claims the spoils. I also concocted the above scenario because I like the Zhentarim, and idc how much cannon talks about them being wiped out or suddenly having changes of heart and becoming nice guys, they still will be a major dark organization in my Realms.
Were I to start having Manshoon do it your way (which I think I might :P) it would be via use of the Simulacrum spell, not the clone or stasis clone spell. Simulacrums have some drawbacks and benefits. They are not as powerful, but they are 100% obedient and you do not have to fight it (clone rules)... As I type this I am envisioning an army of Manshoon Simulacra thrown into the mix of the Manshoon wars - VERY cool :P |
|
|
|
The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2013 : 09:29:18
|
| 2 other thoughts on the Simulacrum. 1st its illusion/phantasm magic, so put that in your pipe and smoke it all you illusion haters. 2nd, I'm thinking Manshoon would create an improved version of the spell, say 9th level, which lets the duplicate be more powerful, be controlled telepathically, and be harder to detect. |
|
|
|
Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2013 : 16:40:01
|
It would appear that Manshoon, at some point, developed cloning magic that lets a clone retain full memory and experience from a previous body.
See The Many Deaths of Manshoon by Brian Cortijo, in Dragon #415.
This doesn't obviate the possibility of lesser awakened clones using lesser cloning magic, of course.
|
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2013 : 16:48:04
|
| I don't see any reason for Manshoons to have an identity crisis. They each know themselves as Manshoon, and see other Manshoons as potential competitors, allies, or rivals. And they each know the workings of the stasis clone spell intimately. |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2013 : 00:16:19
|
You ever see the movie Multiplicity? Silly movie, but funny.
They actually get into what happens when you make a copy of a copy... you loose a little something each time.
I get that feeling that's been happening to Manshoon for awhile. His clones are 'special'.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11830 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2013 : 00:53:11
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Wise men say... only fools rush in... (with apologies to Elvis)
My favorite Elvis song, BTW. I used to sing it to me Ex (which may be why she dumped me... I sing TERRIBLE).
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by Jakuta Khan
I do not recall the exact source of it, but as far as I know, it was kind of punishment for the zhents allying up with the phaerimm in myth drannor.
This sounds familiar to me, as well.
Which just makes things worse - the Phaerimm are as alien as it gets. They would not ally with anyone, under any circumstances - they could barely tolerate each other. Their hubris made the Netherese look like a bunch of 'bleeding hearts'.
That was just some very bad plot right there, IMHO. I was just about to compare it to something similar (in FR), and realized it was the same author. I'm going to have to re-adjust my opinion of him yet again. I am a big advocate of portraying monsters as more then just mindless killing machines, but assigning human-like sensibilities/traits to such alien creatures is just bad research/bad design.
Humans are like chattel to Phaerimm - I don't talk to a chicken before I cook it, and neither would they.
You know what they say, get a lemon, make lemonade. Maybe the Phaerimm had seized control of the Zhent leadership in Zhentil Keep. The Shadovar didn't feel like working through all the loose strings to find the puppetmasters, and instead they just simply smacked Zhentil Keep. Of course, I say all this and I hadn't even read the original reference (didn't know Zhentil Keep was destroyed by Shade... but it does make sense that those two power groups, so close together, would eventually come to blows).
You know something?
Thats brilliant! 
I hadn't even considered the Beholders. The Beholders are the one thing that make the Zhetarrim (including Manshoon) quake in their boots. On the other hand, the Phaerimm enslaved a whole city of them (which demonstrates the VAST power-gulf between the phaerimm and the Zhents).
The Phaerimm could have easily been controlling the Zhentil Keep beholders. in fact, they could have been doing it for awhile. Thats a very interesting angle indeed.
Hmmm, I hadn't even thought of them controlling the beholder allies of the keep when I wrote that, but yeah, you're right, I can see the Phaerimm enslaving the beholders and mentally taking control over Zhent leaders as well. The Zhents are constantly sending caravans into the desert, so they'd attract Phaerimm attention. Nothing says the Zhents needed to be on top in this scenario. However, nothing says the Zhents even needed to KNOW they were being led by the Phaerimm either, given that the Phaerimm could easily shapechange, use illusions, create simulacrums of the Zhent leaders, or any of a number of other methods to lead them directly (not to mention mind control).
With Manshoon not around and Fzoul more focused on his religious tenets than the business, stuff could happen. Of course, I have no clue when this supposed Shadovar attack on Zhentil Keep happened (since I don't know the original reference), so as far as I know, Fzoul wasn't around either. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2013 : 03:56:19
|
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
[quote]Originally posted by Markustay
With Manshoon not around and Fzoul more focused on his religious tenets than the business, stuff could happen. Of course, I have no clue when this supposed Shadovar attack on Zhentil Keep happened (since I don't know the original reference), so as far as I know, Fzoul wasn't around either.
According to the 4th E mention of the attack on Zhentil Keep, one of the Manshoons had returned, made nice with Fzoul (YEAH RIGHT), and was back in charge. |
|
|
|
Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2013 : 06:34:36
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
According to the 4th E mention of the attack on Zhentil Keep, one of the Manshoons had returned, made nice with Fzoul (YEAH RIGHT), and was back in charge.
By all accounts this particular Manshoon clone was cooperative and willing to work with Fzoul.
This would be the same Manshoon that was (presumably) slain when Shade attacked Zhentil Keep.
The Manshoon that visited Larloch was slain and made an example of, when he proved unwilling to accept Larloch's plans for him. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
|
|
|
crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2013 : 11:40:22
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Its an interesting concept you have crazed, but its a new one, not one from the stasis clone spell.
You are very welcome MM, Manshoon is a pet project of mine I guess and like to speculate and conjecture on him, his clones and his dreams and schemes.
There is an excellent thread here about Manshoon and the clones with input from Ed and THO.
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12084&SearchTerms=manshoon+prime
Just to be clear about Manshoon Prime. I am talking about the first born Manshoon, not the current 'top' Manshoon. If you have a look at the cover of Cloak and Dagger you get the see the original first born Manshoon (the super prime if you wish) in all his glory watching his minion clones running around doing stuff believing that are actually the real Manshoon Prime.
Cheers
Damian |
Edited by - crazedventurers on 23 Feb 2013 11:43:36 |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2013 : 12:30:38
|
| So how many Manshoons does it take to screw in a lightbulb? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
|
|
|
Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2013 : 17:49:37
|
| Where is it written that the person on the cover of Cloak and Dagger is the first Manshoon? |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
|
|
|
The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2013 : 19:56:02
|
quote:
Originally posted by crazedventurers
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Its an interesting concept you have crazed, but its a new one, not one from the stasis clone spell.
You are very welcome MM, Manshoon is a pet project of mine I guess and like to speculate and conjecture on him, his clones and his dreams and schemes.
There is an excellent thread here about Manshoon and the clones with input from Ed and THO.
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12084&SearchTerms=manshoon+prime
Just to be clear about Manshoon Prime. I am talking about the first born Manshoon, not the current 'top' Manshoon. If you have a look at the cover of Cloak and Dagger you get the see the original first born Manshoon (the super prime if you wish) in all his glory watching his minion clones running around doing stuff believing that are actually the real Manshoon Prime.
Cheers
Damian
I like that general idea as well. My only problem with it is the vast amount of magical equipment/resources that your Manshoon Uber-Prime through away in the release of his clones. As such I like the idea better that some string got crossed - perhaps a momentary wild surge, perhaps Elminster did something, whatever - and Uber-Prime had to secretly pick up the pieces, fixing things. I'd also find it unlikely that Uber-Prime would sit back and do nothing while Fzoul sacrificed all the Manshoon-loyal Zhentarim. At the very least he's have teleported the most useful of them from their cells. I'd think he also would have informed the leaders of the Citadel of the Raven that Fzoul was lying - a simple sending would have gotten that done. |
|
|
|
crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2013 : 21:11:26
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Where is it written that the person on the cover of Cloak and Dagger is the first Manshoon?
I would say 99.9% it is given past threads here and on the Realms-L, though will bow to another answer to the contrary.
Have posted in Ed's thread to see if we can get a definitive answer.
Cheers
Damian |
So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
|
|
|
crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2013 : 21:21:19
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
I'd also find it unlikely that Uber-Prime would sit back and do nothing while Fzoul sacrificed all the Manshoon-loyal Zhentarim. At the very least he's have teleported the most useful of them from their cells. I'd think he also would have informed the leaders of the Citadel of the Raven that Fzoul was lying - a simple sending would have gotten that done.
I think Manshoon One is past all that, he probably knows through years of scheming that one of his clones will get back into power and essentially run the Zhentarim for him, acting as a dupe to fool the enemy and keep them busy foiling the clones and not him (or so he believes).
Wasted resources? consider this for tens of thousands of years magic has been created and crafted, passed on and lost (to be found by pesky adventueres in dungeons!), multiply all that magic by the infinite amount of planes/demi planes, planets and crystal spheres that exist with the D&D cosmos and Manshoon One has more than enough resources to play with and replace when necessary.
Just a few thoughts on what keeps him busy on a daily basis
Manshoon One is much more interested in working on permanent longevity magics, uncovering and controlling gates within Faerun and without in other planes and worlds, building his personal power and spell mastery to new heights, trying to get personal mantles to work for him, figuring out how he can ascend to demi-god level within the next 200 years, and just how much of himself must he give up to feel the loving embrace of Mystra for a breif second and experience the joy that Her Chosen have.
Just my thoughts
Cheers
Damian |
So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
|
|
|
The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2013 : 22:10:45
|
| I'd definitely argue Manshoon does not desire to be a Chosen - he thinks being Mystra's servant is beneath him, very much like the Netherese Archwizards considered worshiping gods beneath them. In Ed's books Mystra has asked him to do this or that and he basically always denies her. |
|
|
|
The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2013 : 23:08:24
|
quote:
Originally posted by crazedventurers
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Where is it written that the person on the cover of Cloak and Dagger is the first Manshoon?
I would say 99.9% it is given past threads here and on the Realms-L, though will bow to another answer to the contrary.
Have posted in Ed's thread to see if we can get a definitive answer.
Cheers
Damian
I went back and looked at the cover art again. I definitely think that the furthest right crystal ball has the image of Vampshoon. The fangs and the telltale mask make that apparent.
I'd say the image in the center is Fzoul, not Manshoon, and bears a good resemblance to the images of Fzoul in the old Ruins of Zhentil Keep Box Set.
I have no idea who the left image is. I have to think about what the symbols (the red triangle on the chest - possibly something to do with Beshaba? - and what appears to be a wave in the shape of a great cat) suggest.
Finally, I'd say the wizard in the middle is Khelben, though really my only reasons for this are the beard and the amount Khelben is featured in the book (the Harper Schism, the Moonstars, his ''alliance'' with the Zhents, etc.). |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2013 : 01:19:47
|
quote:
Originally posted by crazedventurers
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Where is it written that the person on the cover of Cloak and Dagger is the first Manshoon?
I would say 99.9% it is given past threads here and on the Realms-L, though will bow to another answer to the contrary.
Have posted in Ed's thread to see if we can get a definitive answer.
Cheers
Damian
I actually used to think it was Khelben. Until, some years ago, I actually zoomed in on the image using some photoshop software in an effort to determine just who it might be. From that closer inspection I noticed that there's apparently some close physical similarities between the visual structure of the wizard's face and that of the vampire-like image in the right-most crystal ball.
Granted, the wizard's white-stripe in his beard suggests that it might be Khelben, but the visual similarities I referenced above also make me think that the wizard might be "a" Manshoon as well.
I wonder whether Steven and/or Eric have any thoughts on this? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2013 : 02:00:33
|
Does Jeff Easley lend his voice here? That's his work so he'd know if no one else does.
I'm more convinced than before that it is Khelben. Look behind him to the left. It looks to me like there is a black staff leaning against the shelf in the corner.
Also I found another detail on the 3rd (left) image. He is wearing a diamond shaped brooch or pin or something on his chest. |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2013 : 02:26:32
|
Khelben may 'be' The Blackstaff... but he ain't the only guy to ever carry a black staff. 
I've always gone off the assumption that that was one Manshoon looking at others, since thats the book the Clone Wars was in. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 24 Feb 2013 02:26:50 |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
shade attack on zhentil keep
