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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore

Denmark
1093 Posts

Posted - 15 Jan 2013 :  07:51:02  Show Profile Send Nicolai Withander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Hidden Lord

quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander

Hello... I just reread some stuff in Netheril Boxed set... And it says some very interesting things.

First of all I need to say that this question is directed at 3,5ed around 1380DR


I read a spell that does time travel called Time Conduit its a level 9 spell, so it should still work, or is there something that would prevent the spell from working? And also how likely is it to find the spell and where possible???




Time Conduit is an extant spell in the Year of the Blazing Hand. It is a very rare spell, known to few wizards in Faerun at that time. In addition to being in the collections of these few wizards, some copies of the spell exist in tomes long lost. A prodigious magic-user could also recreate Time Conduit independently, through long years of rigorous study.

All other forms of Chronomancy are STRICTLY regulated by the Lady of Mysteries.

In 3.5 Dungeons and Dragons, Time Conduit functions as follows:


Time Conduit
Conjuration (Creation), Chronomancy
Components: V,S,M
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: 30 feet
Effect: See text
Duration: See text
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: None

Arcane Material Component: One scale from three dragons, each of a different alignment, dust from a slain time elemental, and soil from the destination land of the time conduit.

Upon casting this spell, a shimmering golden portal appears somewhere close to the caster (though the caster has no idea where the portal appears). The 10-foot circular opening appears to lead into a long tunnel filled with silvery-blue flashes of light. Creatures that gaze into the tunnel for more than one round begin to see glimpses of their past cascading past the walls of the tunnel, though these memories cause no damage. The portal remains for one round per level of the wizard or until the caster enters the conduit, whichever occurs first.
During casting, the wizard names the age and year that the time conduit is to transport those who enter it. For example, a wizard who wanted to visit Netheril around the time of Karsus’s birth would state: “During the Shadowed Age of Netheril, in the year 3163 NY.” Creatures entering the time conduit spell are immediately stripped of all magical items and memorized spells (though spell books and scrolls remain; psionics are likewise depleted, though they return at the normal rate). In addition, items that do not yet exist in the time are removed, such as full-plate armor, arquebuses, and most gnomish inventions. Stripped items are stored in the conduit and are returned during the voyage home to the time travelers (but the return trip likewise strips travelers of items they have collected during their stay, creating a storehouse on each end of the conduit where time travelers can leave their belongings). Spells that do not exist in the current age appear as blank pages in a spellcaster’s spell book. Scrolls that do not yet exist in the current time are likewise blank. Blank pages return to normal when the time traveler returns to his own time or when the spell becomes available during his stay in the new time (such as by it being created during the year in which they’re in the past).
There is never a way to determine the precise destination when using a time conduit spell. The only thing for certain is that the time travelers appear somewhere in the lands that they seek. For example, travelers entering Netheril might appear in the southern city of Thiefsward or they might appear as far north as Coldfoot. They might even appear on the High Ice or somewhere deep in the Eastern Forest.
Time travelers always arrive during the festivities celebrating the new year; they always return to their own times during the final night of the year. These are the times when the mystical energies and the forces of time are most powerful on Toril. Nothing can prevent a time traveler from being drawn into the time conduit at the close of the year, even spells that negate magic or shield against its effects. Upon returning to their own time, creatures discover that one month has passed since they left (though they have still aged one full year).
Also, time travelers can not exist more than once in a particular time-once a traveler time-travels to a particular year, he can never return to that year again. Any attempt to do so simply fails, and the caster is instead hurled 1d100 years into a random time and place.




I gotta ask if is your own re-write of the 2ed spell or an official source? And if it is official, where have you foundit?

thnaks!
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The Hidden Lord
Learned Scribe

148 Posts

Posted - 15 Jan 2013 :  12:37:00  Show Profile Send The Hidden Lord a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Lol, of course not; this is the 2e spell re-written with 3.5 mechanics.


quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander

quote:
Originally posted by The Hidden Lord

quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander

Hello... I just reread some stuff in Netheril Boxed set... And it says some very interesting things.

First of all I need to say that this question is directed at 3,5ed around 1380DR


I read a spell that does time travel called Time Conduit its a level 9 spell, so it should still work, or is there something that would prevent the spell from working? And also how likely is it to find the spell and where possible???




Time Conduit is an extant spell in the Year of the Blazing Hand. It is a very rare spell, known to few wizards in Faerun at that time. In addition to being in the collections of these few wizards, some copies of the spell exist in tomes long lost. A prodigious magic-user could also recreate Time Conduit independently, through long years of rigorous study.

All other forms of Chronomancy are STRICTLY regulated by the Lady of Mysteries.

In 3.5 Dungeons and Dragons, Time Conduit functions as follows:


Time Conduit
Conjuration (Creation), Chronomancy
Components: V,S,M
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: 30 feet
Effect: See text
Duration: See text
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: None

Arcane Material Component: One scale from three dragons, each of a different alignment, dust from a slain time elemental, and soil from the destination land of the time conduit.

Upon casting this spell, a shimmering golden portal appears somewhere close to the caster (though the caster has no idea where the portal appears). The 10-foot circular opening appears to lead into a long tunnel filled with silvery-blue flashes of light. Creatures that gaze into the tunnel for more than one round begin to see glimpses of their past cascading past the walls of the tunnel, though these memories cause no damage. The portal remains for one round per level of the wizard or until the caster enters the conduit, whichever occurs first.
During casting, the wizard names the age and year that the time conduit is to transport those who enter it. For example, a wizard who wanted to visit Netheril around the time of Karsus’s birth would state: “During the Shadowed Age of Netheril, in the year 3163 NY.” Creatures entering the time conduit spell are immediately stripped of all magical items and memorized spells (though spell books and scrolls remain; psionics are likewise depleted, though they return at the normal rate). In addition, items that do not yet exist in the time are removed, such as full-plate armor, arquebuses, and most gnomish inventions. Stripped items are stored in the conduit and are returned during the voyage home to the time travelers (but the return trip likewise strips travelers of items they have collected during their stay, creating a storehouse on each end of the conduit where time travelers can leave their belongings). Spells that do not exist in the current age appear as blank pages in a spellcaster’s spell book. Scrolls that do not yet exist in the current time are likewise blank. Blank pages return to normal when the time traveler returns to his own time or when the spell becomes available during his stay in the new time (such as by it being created during the year in which they’re in the past).
There is never a way to determine the precise destination when using a time conduit spell. The only thing for certain is that the time travelers appear somewhere in the lands that they seek. For example, travelers entering Netheril might appear in the southern city of Thiefsward or they might appear as far north as Coldfoot. They might even appear on the High Ice or somewhere deep in the Eastern Forest.
Time travelers always arrive during the festivities celebrating the new year; they always return to their own times during the final night of the year. These are the times when the mystical energies and the forces of time are most powerful on Toril. Nothing can prevent a time traveler from being drawn into the time conduit at the close of the year, even spells that negate magic or shield against its effects. Upon returning to their own time, creatures discover that one month has passed since they left (though they have still aged one full year).
Also, time travelers can not exist more than once in a particular time-once a traveler time-travels to a particular year, he can never return to that year again. Any attempt to do so simply fails, and the caster is instead hurled 1d100 years into a random time and place.




I gotta ask if is your own re-write of the 2ed spell or an official source? And if it is official, where have you foundit?

thnaks!

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36784 Posts

Posted - 15 Jan 2013 :  19:11:36  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just had a random thought...

In canon, we don't know of any Netherese enclaves that were capable of spelljamming. But there are a lot of enclaves about which we have no information at all. Since nothing explicitly states that no enclaves were capable of spelljamming, it doesn't violate canon to have one that went into space, but not as part of Netheril's space program.

Also, we know that Nimbral -- where they dig illusions -- was settled by Netherese survivors.

Also, we have what I've always considered a troublesome bit of lore from Realmspace: worshippers of Leira, living on Selūne, under a giant illusion. I'd've happily ignored this lore, but it became canon Realmslore with one of the web articles about the Sellplague.

Now, roll this all up into a ball. An enclave, acting independently of the rest of Netheril, went to the moon. Maybe they decided to park there, maybe they were marooned there during the Fall.

These guys were into illusions, like those that settled Nimbral. This explains why Leira worshippers on the moon. If they were marooned by the Fall, they likely have no idea what happened, and may think it was some outside force -- hence their paranoia. And the illusion could have been something they crafted themselves, soon after arriving, because of that paranoia. Though they created the illusion themselves, they considered the magic to do it to be a gift from their goddess, and over time, the truth became lost and mixed with legend.

Or, more simply, a bunch of illusionist Netherese were on a spelljammer that was part of the Netherese space program, and got "shot down" and were forced to land on the moon. The rest works pretty much unchanged.

This reconciles some troublesome lore, by simply expanding into a grey area with some existing tidbits.

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The Hidden Lord
Learned Scribe

148 Posts

Posted - 15 Jan 2013 :  19:23:26  Show Profile Send The Hidden Lord a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Just had a random thought...

In canon, we don't know of any Netherese enclaves that were capable of spelljamming. But there are a lot of enclaves about which we have no information at all. Since nothing explicitly states that no enclaves were capable of spelljamming, it doesn't violate canon to have one that went into space, but not as part of Netheril's space program.




Actually, that does violate canon.

And since this area is to enable fans of the Forgotten Realms to discuss the detailed history and lore of the the Realms; and since only "canon" (official) lore taken from FR sources and products should be discussed in this area to avoid any confusion, maybe this goes in the General area, or something?

Edited by - The Hidden Lord on 15 Jan 2013 19:24:18
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36784 Posts

Posted - 15 Jan 2013 :  20:14:02  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Tell me where, in canon, it states that there were absolutely no enclaves ever that were capable of spelljamming.

The absence of something saying that X is true does not mean that it is false.

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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
7978 Posts

Posted - 15 Jan 2013 :  20:14:11  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I was wrong, under the mistaken impression that Selūnarra/Opus escaped Netheril's fall by spelljamming, but have learned that it instead escaped to another plane, (apparently) through an intervention by Selūne.

Yeoman's Loft (and "two other enclaves" which are not named or detailed) had orbital "spacedock" capabilities, though no spelljamming capabilities. I'm not even sure exactly why spelljammers wouldn't be able to dock with an enclave flying in the atmosphere ... unless Netheril didn't allow it, or mythallars and spelljamming helms somehow interfere with one another.

Yeoman's Loft is mentioned, as an asteroid city/fortress, somewhere in the Spelljammer lore.

Oberon's spelljamming enclave is a non-Wizbro, non-canon creation.

I dimly recall an adventure involving the ruins of a Netherese enclave (along with its broken mythallar and piles of useless quasimagical items) found drifting in the phlogiston, occupied by Gith Pirates. But I can't recall its title or enough specific details for an online search. Probably around the 3E/Shadovar era, so it seems to have been OGL or other non-canon.

quote:
The absence of something saying that X is true does not mean that it is false.
Known as the "argument from ignorance" fallacy. Besides, we could argue endlessly over anything/everything canon has not excluded being a canonically valid possibility. For all we know, Ed's Netheril might be published tomorrow and overwrite Slade's Netheril, or a random Wizbro game designer might create a spelljamming Netherese enclave for an adventure in the next Dragon ... I think it's better to stick with "what is" than "what if".

[/Ayrik]

Edited by - Ayrik on 15 Jan 2013 20:29:54
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 15 Jan 2013 :  20:19:23  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Now, roll this all up into a ball. An enclave, acting independently of the rest of Netheril, went to the moon. Maybe they decided to park there, maybe they were marooned there during the Fall.
That's actually a pretty cool idea.

Expanding on this, what if they lost control of their enclave and it just kept going up, up, up? Maybe they knew they couldn't turn the enclave around, so they did what they could to point it as Selune and hoped for the best?

I like it when lore discussion produce interesting possibilities like this.

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).
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The Hidden Lord
Learned Scribe

148 Posts

Posted - 15 Jan 2013 :  21:34:27  Show Profile Send The Hidden Lord a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Tell me where, in canon, it states that there were absolutely no enclaves ever that were capable of spelljamming.

The absence of something saying that X is true does not mean that it is false.



Lol, a fourth grader tried that same logical fallacy on me last week!

I'm not saying your queer ideas aren't *possible*... But they are NOT canon.


@Ayrik

I'm quite certain that Yeoman's Loft was not an asteroid. I'll check the sources, but considering your track record on Netheril lore, I'm going to assume that you are incorrect.
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 15 Jan 2013 :  21:50:29  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

Besides, we could argue endlessly over anything/everything canon ... I think it's better to stick with "what is" than "what if".

There's a pretty big difference between endless arguing and reasoned speculation.

I for one like speculative Realmslore because it sometimes leads to holes in lore getting filled, with those patches finding their way into future game products.

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore

Denmark
1093 Posts

Posted - 15 Jan 2013 :  21:54:52  Show Profile Send Nicolai Withander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
"Great wealth entered the groundling city..." Thats what is says in the boxed set. Hope this helps. Took me quite some time to find!



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The Hidden Lord
Learned Scribe

148 Posts

Posted - 15 Jan 2013 :  22:08:39  Show Profile Send The Hidden Lord a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander

"Great wealth entered the groundling city..." Thats what is says in the boxed set. Hope this helps. Took me quite some time to find!







"Groundling" is a Spelljammer term for a terrestrial humanoid.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36784 Posts

Posted - 15 Jan 2013 :  23:11:28  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Hidden Lord

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Tell me where, in canon, it states that there were absolutely no enclaves ever that were capable of spelljamming.

The absence of something saying that X is true does not mean that it is false.



Lol, a fourth grader tried that same logical fallacy on me last week!

I'm not saying your queer ideas aren't *possible*... But they are NOT canon.


I didn't say my ideas were canon. I said they did not violate canon. That is not the same thing -- as extensive as published Realmslore is, there is no single aspect of the Realms that has been covered to such an extent as to rule out all other possibilities.

Nothing in established lore says that no enclaves were capable of spelljamming. Therefore, it does not violate lore to say that one of the unnamed enclaves had that ability.

quote:
Originally posted by The Hidden Lord

@Ayrik

I'm quite certain that Yeoman's Loft was not an asteroid. I'll check the sources, but considering your track record on Netheril lore, I'm going to assume that you are incorrect.



Was that last part really necessary?

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!

Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 15 Jan 2013 23:12:29
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36784 Posts

Posted - 15 Jan 2013 :  23:13:30  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Hidden Lord

quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander

"Great wealth entered the groundling city..." Thats what is says in the boxed set. Hope this helps. Took me quite some time to find!







"Groundling" is a Spelljammer term for a terrestrial humanoid.



Indeed. This description of Yeoman's Loft proves that the city was earth-bound, contrary to my previous assumption. It was finding that passage that caused me to retract my statement about Yeoman's Loft.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Alisttair
Great Reader

Canada
3054 Posts

Posted - 15 Jan 2013 :  23:51:40  Show Profile  Visit Alisttair's Homepage Send Alisttair a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeoman's Loft is a land based city in Netheril, and is the center for Spelljamming. As per the Forgotten Realms - Arcane Age adventure 9540 How the Mighty Are Fallen (which I just ran adapted to 4E rules), on page 3 SYNOPSIS
quote:
The adventure begins as characters enter the spelljamming city of Yeoman's Loft, the heart of Netheril's Realmspace activities...


I can't currently find a quote that specifically says it is a land based city, but pg 14 shows it as being on land, much of the adventure takes place with the PCs trekking through the forest and mountains in its vicinity, and on pg9 at the Neth Gatehouse, PCs can port to other Netherese cities (in particular Karsus Enclave)...and the city has a Main Gate.

Hope this helps.

Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)

Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 16 Jan 2013 :  00:39:46  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wow... talk about condescending. No wonder we dumped your nasty tea in the pond.

And I've been 'called out' for sources numerous times - scribes like to go read things for themselves.

I knew there were no canon spelljamming enclaves (as in, ones that went into space themselves, not just had ships to do so), which is why I created my homebrew one... and then said IT never made it into space either (but a piece of it did - the Archmages sheared-off both the top and bottom, and sent the mountain's peak into space... where it became the first Dwarven SJ Citadel... he didn't realize the little buggers were in there!)

As for Yeoman's Loft - it is indeed an enclave, but we have had some enclaves in canon that weren't airborn (like the one Waterdeep is sitting on). HOWEVER, I find it highly unlikely that they would use one of their very few land-bound enclaves for space travel... it makes little sense.* And nothing states Yeoman's loft itself went into space - I picture it being like Cloud City in SW (ships coming and going, like a huge floating spaceport).

I also like to say (as in, in MY version of Realms/homebrew) that Selūnarra is the moon city (or one of them), and that is where the 'moonies' came from. I mean it makes sense, right? Moon-goddess stashes moon-lover city on the moon?

Good catch Nicholai - I thought I remembered something to that effect, but the Netehril box has several contradictions so thats fairly easy to ignore. As THL pointed out, its a name for people who 'come form the ground', which were also called 'low Netherese' (both because of where they came from, and also because the people in the flying enclaves considered themselves 'above' them). so that city could have been just a city the other Netherese (arcanists) called 'groundlings' in derision (they weren't 'enclave born'). Lots of ways to spin it.

'Groundlings' is also the term for those moleman-dwarf assassins Zhentil Keep uses. Perhaps it was a city of those. it would be canon, right?

*EDIT: On the other hand, maybe the magic of the SJ Helms somehow conflicted with that of the Mythalars. That actually works for us - it could be one of several reasons why they gave up on space, and also why Yeoman's Loft was a groundling city (picture them firing up a captured SJ helm for the first time, and the city suddenly becoming destabilized in the process). Both create localized field-effects - it does make sense.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 16 Jan 2013 00:47:32
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe

Malaysia
552 Posts

Posted - 16 Jan 2013 :  03:13:19  Show Profile Send Xar Zarath a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think many things in the Realms and even in general DND is made up of NDA's because something as expansive and with such depth as FR cannot be simply filled up. Thats why its so fun, because if a something does not exist, who can say it doesn't with such a rich history and lore to back up the NDA's. Its like the RW and aliens in general, food for thought and building blocks and so on.

If it does not exist, like canon spelljamming enclaves, then just ask, PM ED and THO, though those two will probably be busy. Using the lore already there, it is not hard to imagine some archwizard attempting to reach the stars and beyond. Its all a matter of interpretation, just like the Abyss, think about it, it full of an infinite variety of demons and even authors have made up their own kind of tanar'ri just ask RLB, I certainly did.

The thing is, making stuff up, or adding your own lore to it, is what FR really is. Even Ed couldn't create everything, he let others run loose in FR to make it what it is today.

Everything ends where it begins. Period.



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The Hidden Lord
Learned Scribe

148 Posts

Posted - 17 Jan 2013 :  05:45:38  Show Profile Send The Hidden Lord a Private Message  Reply with Quote
EDIT: "Groundling" is a term that was used in old Netheril to describe those cities and inhabitants which which did not float.


Uh... Nasty tea ? I'm unfamiliar with that metaphor.

To the Reader:

Don't let Markustay fool you. "Groundling" was not a term used by the Netherese to refer to those who did not live in the floating cities.

It is sad that you can't always trust what you read in Candlekeeps canon only area, but that is unfortunately the nature of some contributors.

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Wow... talk about condescending. No wonder we dumped your nasty tea in the pond.

And I've been 'called out' for sources numerous times - scribes like to go read things for themselves.

I knew there were no canon spelljamming enclaves (as in, ones that went into space themselves, not just had ships to do so), which is why I created my homebrew one... and then said IT never made it into space either (but a piece of it did - the Archmages sheared-off both the top and bottom, and sent the mountain's peak into space... where it became the first Dwarven SJ Citadel... he didn't realize the little buggers were in there!)

As for Yeoman's Loft - it is indeed an enclave, but we have had some enclaves in canon that weren't airborn (like the one Waterdeep is sitting on). HOWEVER, I find it highly unlikely that they would use one of their very few land-bound enclaves for space travel... it makes little sense.* And nothing states Yeoman's loft itself went into space - I picture it being like Cloud City in SW (ships coming and going, like a huge floating spaceport).

I also like to say (as in, in MY version of Realms/homebrew) that Selūnarra is the moon city (or one of them), and that is where the 'moonies' came from. I mean it makes sense, right? Moon-goddess stashes moon-lover city on the moon?

Good catch Nicholai - I thought I remembered something to that effect, but the Netehril box has several contradictions so thats fairly easy to ignore. As THL pointed out, its a name for people who 'come form the ground', which were also called 'low Netherese' (both because of where they came from, and also because the people in the flying enclaves considered themselves 'above' them). so that city could have been just a city the other Netherese (arcanists) called 'groundlings' in derision (they weren't 'enclave born'). Lots of ways to spin it.

'Groundlings' is also the term for those moleman-dwarf assassins Zhentil Keep uses. Perhaps it was a city of those. it would be canon, right?

*EDIT: On the other hand, maybe the magic of the SJ Helms somehow conflicted with that of the Mythalars. That actually works for us - it could be one of several reasons why they gave up on space, and also why Yeoman's Loft was a groundling city (picture them firing up a captured SJ helm for the first time, and the city suddenly becoming destabilized in the process). Both create localized field-effects - it does make sense.


Edited by - The Hidden Lord on 17 Jan 2013 18:57:54
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
4211 Posts

Posted - 17 Jan 2013 :  06:14:59  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Where is your proof that groundling was not a term used by the Netherese to refer to those who did not live in the floating cities?

quote:
Originally posted by The Hidden Lord

Uh... Nasty tea ? I'm unfamiliar with that metaphor.

To the Reader:

Don't let Markustay fool you. "Groundling" was not a term used by the Netherese to refer to those who did not live in the floating cities.

It is sad that you can't always trust what you read in Candlekeeps canon only area, but that is unfortunately the nature of some contributors.


The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me!
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D-brane
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
140 Posts

Posted - 17 Jan 2013 :  08:08:26  Show Profile  Visit D-brane's Homepage Send D-brane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

Where is your proof that groundling was not a term used by the Netherese to refer to those who did not live in the floating cities?

quote:
Originally posted by The Hidden Lord

Uh... Nasty tea ? I'm unfamiliar with that metaphor.

To the Reader:

Don't let Markustay fool you. "Groundling" was not a term used by the Netherese to refer to those who did not live in the floating cities.

It is sad that you can't always trust what you read in Candlekeeps canon only area, but that is unfortunately the nature of some contributors.



Come now, Dalor. It's probably too much for us to hope that The Hidden Lord is counting himself among these "contributors."

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1600 Posts

Posted - 17 Jan 2013 :  09:53:02  Show Profile Send Barastir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Just had a random thought...

In canon, we don't know of any Netherese enclaves that were capable of spelljamming. But there are a lot of enclaves about which we have no information at all. Since nothing explicitly states that no enclaves were capable of spelljamming, it doesn't violate canon to have one that went into space, but not as part of Netheril's space program.

Also, we know that Nimbral -- where they dig illusions -- was settled by Netherese survivors.

Also, we have what I've always considered a troublesome bit of lore from Realmspace: worshippers of Leira, living on Selūne, under a giant illusion. I'd've happily ignored this lore, but it became canon Realmslore with one of the web articles about the Sellplague.

Now, roll this all up into a ball. An enclave, acting independently of the rest of Netheril, went to the moon. Maybe they decided to park there, maybe they were marooned there during the Fall.

These guys were into illusions, like those that settled Nimbral. This explains why Leira worshippers on the moon. If they were marooned by the Fall, they likely have no idea what happened, and may think it was some outside force -- hence their paranoia. And the illusion could have been something they crafted themselves, soon after arriving, because of that paranoia. Though they created the illusion themselves, they considered the magic to do it to be a gift from their goddess, and over time, the truth became lost and mixed with legend.

Or, more simply, a bunch of illusionist Netherese were on a spelljammer that was part of the Netherese space program, and got "shot down" and were forced to land on the moon. The rest works pretty much unchanged.

This reconciles some troublesome lore, by simply expanding into a grey area with some existing tidbits.


Nice ideas, Wooly. The only "problem" I see, and correct me if I am wrong, is that Leira was not known back then as the goddess of illusion and illusionists... So the moon settlers would have to know her after leaving Toril to Selūne. Of course, late arrivals could bring her cult to the moon... Just wondering...

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)
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The Hidden Lord
Learned Scribe

148 Posts

Posted - 17 Jan 2013 :  18:53:39  Show Profile Send The Hidden Lord a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

Where is your proof that groundling was not a term used by the Netherese to refer to those who did not live in the floating cities?




There is no proof; I was incorrect, and in fact 'groundling' was a term used in old Netheril.

Edited by - The Hidden Lord on 17 Jan 2013 18:55:47
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Alisttair
Great Reader

Canada
3054 Posts

Posted - 17 Jan 2013 :  21:33:24  Show Profile  Visit Alisttair's Homepage Send Alisttair a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think I missed some parts when I posted my reply. I noticed the talk was a lot about a spelljamming city. I think it would be neat and a great idea for a homebrew netherese enclave to somehow avoid the fall (since itcant fall in space

Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)

Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2420 Posts

Posted - 24 Jan 2013 :  12:30:23  Show Profile Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If you're interested in time adventuring, Time Conduit is NOT the only option available in canon. There's also the Font Of Time, an ancient artifact from Old Empires located somewhere in eastern Mulhorand. Look in the font during the full moon, see the past, possess someone, and adventure that way. Also a fun way to adventure as someone important for a while.
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