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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Jan 2013 : 11:18:50
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Hello... after stumbling upon a web page describing some of the beings from the Immortal's Handbook, it got me thinking. Where are these Titanic+++++ creatures? Where do they roam? If something can that big exists and it has the power described. I’m talking 3 digit CRs... Well where would these creatures live?
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2013 : 11:59:27
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Such high-order beings are entirely beyond mortal comprehensions. The existence, domains, and abilities of even the lowliest such beings ("overgods" like Ao, Anubis, and the Lady of Pain) are poorly understood. The Immortals ruleset was never canon outside of Basic D&D settings and is now defunct in any case, although some Planescape lore (mentioned in this scroll) describes the Twin Serpents Jazirian and Ahriman who formed the Ouroboros World Serpent as beings of this order ... also claiming that Ahriman was diminished and became the being we now call Azmodeus.
These omnicosmic beings would likely either transcend the cosmos (exist somewhere outside or "beyond" it) or permeate the cosmos (exist everywhere within it), although Anubis apparently has domain over the entire Astral plane while The Lady of Pain is apparently caged within Sigil. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2013 : 14:33:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
Hello... after stumbling upon a web page describing some of the beings from the Immortal's Handbook, it got me thinking. Where are these Titanic+++++ creatures? Where do they roam? If something can that big exists and it has the power described. I’m talking 3 digit CRs... Well where would these creatures live?
Where ever they wanted to.  |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2013 : 19:15:59
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[/quote]
Where ever they wanted to.
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He he... true! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2013 : 20:42:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
Hello... after stumbling upon a web page describing some of the beings from the Immortal's Handbook... <snip>
Link, please?  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 11 Jan 2013 20:42:49 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2013 : 20:56:40
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| Ah, I'd thought the OP was referencing the Basic D&D Immortals Ruleset. The Immortal Handbook is third party OGL stuff by Eden Studios (er, now Craig Cochrane), it is not official WotC stuff. |
[/Ayrik] |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31726 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2013 : 01:09:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Ah, I'd thought the OP was referencing the Basic D&D Immortals Ruleset. The Immortal Handbook is third party OGL stuff by Eden Studios (er, now Craig Cochrane), it is not official WotC stuff.
That's correct. It does, however, run somewhat as a spiritual successor to the original D&D Immortals boxed set -- drawing, in parts, from the platform for higher-powered beings that the boxed set established.
If Nicolai is really interested in running this stuff, I'd recommend picking it up. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2013 : 01:28:45
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| +1 Recommend. The three Eden Studios books I do have are better quality than most OGL/d20 products, although I'll admit I've basically never used anything from any of them in actual gameplay. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2013 : 11:13:06
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Here's the link: http://d20npcs.wikia.com/wiki/Category:D20_NPCs
I do not want to run that kind of game. First of all the highest level ccharecter we have is my wizard level 28, overpowered some will say but I dont want to bring any gods or over gods into that. Im quite fine with only dieling in mortal stuff.
It more just an interest in reading these kind of things. For me its like reading about a very fast car or biggest ship... Just fun information.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2013 : 20:25:06
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Well, if you like that, you may be interested in THIS SITE, which is based on the data from that tome, and compared to other settings/games. I found that while trying to find whatever site you were referring to (and thanks for the link, BTW) 
I'm the same way - none of that ever makes it into my games, but I like to contemplate 'the big picture' (the multiverse), and how it all inter-relates. The 'Sidereals' concept seems akin to my own 'Ordials' musings.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 12 Jan 2013 20:26:29 |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2013 : 22:32:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I'm the same way - none of that ever makes it into my games, but I like to contemplate 'the big picture' (the multiverse), and how it all inter-relates. The 'Sidereals' concept seems akin to my own 'Ordials' musings.
So true!
BTW I cant get your link to work? |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2013 : 00:00:27
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Don't know why -it just worked for me; here's the address:
http://www.immortalshandbook.com/freestuff1.htm |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Marc
Senior Scribe
657 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2013 : 17:41:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
Hello... after stumbling upon a web page describing some of the beings from the Immortal's Handbook, it got me thinking. Where are these Titanic+++++ creatures? Where do they roam? If something can that big exists and it has the power described. I’m talking 3 digit CRs... Well where would these creatures live?
This is not Great Wheel cosmology - they live in 10 dimensions - some creatures live between the dimensions.
dimension 0 is Entropy,
1-3 is the Prime
4 Transitive planes - Astral, Ethereal, Shadow
5 Inner Planes
6 Outer Planes
7 Far Realm
8 universe of universes - realm of the time lords
9 diamond heaven
10 home of the supreme being - library of all knowledge
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Marc
Senior Scribe
657 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2013 : 19:05:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Such high-order beings are entirely beyond mortal comprehensions. The existence, domains, and abilities of even the lowliest such beings ("overgods" like Ao, Anubis, and the Lady of Pain) are poorly understood. The Immortals ruleset was never canon outside of Basic D&D settings and is now defunct in any case, although some Planescape lore (mentioned in this scroll) describes the Twin Serpents Jazirian and Ahriman who formed the Ouroboros World Serpent as beings of this order ... also claiming that Ahriman was diminished and became the being we now call Azmodeus.
Guide to Hell myth doesn't not fit with Planescape canon, it gives too much importance to Law. Possible cosmic entities from the Great Wheel are the Lady of Pain, Danu of the Celtic pantheon, the Great Unknown/Source, the Cadence, Mechanus Mediators, titan Gaea, unknown power in Chronias, Center-of-All, Entropy, draeden Ulgurshek, Tharizdun, Fate, Brahman, the Sleeping Ones ... |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2013 : 19:34:47
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| If we know about these 10 dimensions, then we must know who lives where? Or am I concluding too much? |
Edited by - Nicolai Withander on 13 Jan 2013 21:53:24 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2013 : 21:13:06
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Guide to Hell seems to be a Planescape product, even without the brand logo.
But casting arguments about it's validity aside, the beauty of Planescape is that it doesn't have to make sense and weirder is often better. Planescape is filled with contradictory lore and impossible combinations of possibilities, it is constant interactions of these things which fuel the setting.
It's even possible for the Guide to Hell myth to be simultaneously true and false, even alongside the creation myths of every other religion. I agree that Law (and a distinct pro-Good bias) are overemphasized in the writing. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Marc
Senior Scribe
657 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2013 : 08:04:07
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| Yeah, fiendish propaganda machines in the planes would repeat a lie until most people start believing in it, changing history and what's real. |
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Marc
Senior Scribe
657 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2013 : 08:04:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
If we know about these 10 dimensions, then we must know who lives where? Or am I concluding too much?
We know a few creatures, but imagine how big our universe is and then a huge number of them. I'll post examples from Bestiary vol. 1
dimension 0 - There are no inhabitants of Byss, though where it sometimes touches other dimensions pieces of it are broken off and become umbrals/qlippoth, unelementals or void dragons. I'd add umbral blots, shadows of the void from D&D.
dimensions 1-3 - Populated by mortals. It is watched over by Aditi, also known as Infinity, or even Lady Fate to some. Though it is the intelligibles/empyreans who are regarded as this dimensions guardians.
dimension 4 - Populated by the astral worms, time dragons, githyanki, thendar, quori, fetchlings, nihiloi, shades, xills, ethergaunts, nathri, planar spiders ... The flow of time is dictated by Zurvan, more commonly known as Father Time. He constructed the inevitables/technites to police the dimension. Zurvan is different in D&D - elder baatorian.
dimension 5 - Genies, elementals, mephits, xorns, azers, tsnngs ... In IH it is ruled by the eldest elemental, Satan, a being sometimes known
simply as Sin. Weird choice for a ruler. Also beings known as elementarchs.
dimension 6 - Inhabited by spirits. Atziluth is presided over by Metatron and the seraphim. The great seneschals of the spirit world are the angels/devas.
dimension 7 - Populated by pseudonaturals, world flayers ... The most powerful entity of this dimension is known as Limbus who seeks chaos and diversity in all things.
nth - All interdimensional space, populated by a multitude of creatures, some are even sentient unto themselves such as the nehaschimic dragons (quasar and singularity worms that writhe within the body of the demiurge).
dimension 8 - Realm of the aeons, otherwise known as time lords. They've created the neutronium golems who guard the borders to higher dimensions.
dimension 9 - The mazzaroth, mirror beings also known as spectrals seek to stymie those who would seek an audience with the supreme being.
dimension 10 - Populated by the lipika, the keepers of secrets, supernal librarians who tend to the Akashic Records. And the Supreme Being. |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2013 : 15:33:48
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| Holly molly... That gotta be some nasty critters on them higher planes! Where was this from again? The Immortal's Handbook? |
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Marc
Senior Scribe
657 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2013 : 09:41:50
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| The Immortal's Handbook- Epic Bestiary vol. 1. And there's many more. |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2013 : 19:39:40
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How would one get there hands on these?
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2013 : 19:49:11
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Mine were part of a box of somebody else's D&D stuff collecting dust in a local bookshop. But I understand these books are hard to find because they were drowned under a deluge of OGL products by countless publishers. I'd try eBay or RPG collector sites, or contact the author/publisher to arrange a private sale (I've done this with some lesser-known d20 publishers and even received a fair number as free eBooks, most of these old one-shot publishing companies no longer exist).
[Edit]
Does anyone know of any legit D&D-specific (er, OGL/d20-specific) preservation projects? The sort of thing people do for abandonware, automotive manuals, or primitive home computer ROMs? The idea is simple: they contact authors/publishers with requests (or appeals) to have this obsolete stuff released under some version of a share-alike copyleft license ... basically a public-domain archive of "rescued" or "preserved" content available for free forever. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 18 Jan 2013 19:58:48 |
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2013 : 04:16:12
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Weird - it still works for me.
Sorry guys, I don't know why. All I did was Google 'Immortals handbook' and found it. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2013 : 13:10:52
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There was an answer about where the super-beings live in the old D&D "Wrath of the Immortals" box set, though as pointed out before this was never part of the newer systems. This is an excerpt from that source:
The Vortex Dimension
This dimension appears to be fatal to mortals and Immortals alike. Its outermost Outer Planes, the only ones with portals into the multiverse dimension, are visible from certain Outer Planes of the multiverse to characters using detect invisible or truesight spells; they appear as nasty, whirling vortices of energy and destruction. These vortices occasionally spit out monsters; this is where spectral hounds and the mysterious blackballs come from.
Of the few immortals who have ventured into that dimension, only a battered few have ever returned, and they were unable to recall anything that happened to them while there, leading some to belive their memories had been deliberately erased.
It has been a persistent myth among the Immortals for eons that the Vortex Dimension is where the Old Ones are. According to ancient Immortal legends, the Old Ones are a state of existence and power as far from the Immortals as the Immortals are from humans. Some Immortals believe that the Old Ones were once all Immortals, just as the Immortals were once all mortals. The goals and powers of the Old Ones are unknown, but there are a few Immortals who aspire to become Old Ones in order to acquire the legendary power and knowledge of these beings.
There are rumors that it is possible for a reigning Immortal Hierarch to become and Old One by voluntrily giving up his or her Immortality and becoming a mortal again, then earning Immortality a second time and eventually rising to be a Hierarch once more. However, there are very good reasons why very few Immortals are willing to undertake this. The Immortals all remember how difficult it was for them to earn Immortality the first time and know how slim the odds are that they would succeed in a second attempt, especially given the interference of enemies they have made in their Immortal careers. It is said that only two Immortals have succeeded in this incredible deat in the last few thousand years... and both, as soon as they became Hierarchs a second time, were attacked by blackballs and vanished - either destroyed or, some maintain, transformed into Old Ones. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2013 : 16:37:26
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| Similarly, old Manuals of the Planes hinted at a "demiplane of imprisonment" which might contain such entities. |
[/Ayrik] |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31726 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2013 : 02:24:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Similarly, old Manuals of the Planes hinted at a "demiplane of imprisonment" which might contain such entities.
And, interestingly, there's a specifically vague possibility laid down in RAVENLOFT lore that suggests the Demiplane of Dread itself, may have once been a planar prison for the baernaloths. But outside of the fantastic work of one particular member of the old Realms/Pits of Evil community connecting the origins of the Dark Powers to these fallen baernaloths, I've not seen much done with this possibility -- either in canon or through unofficial material -- since. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2013 : 03:04:01
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| Ah yes, Realms of Evil ... never did get that invite ... I guess I'm not evil enough haha ... |
[/Ayrik] |
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Cosmic entities
