| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Jan 2004 : 08:44:29
|
LOL  Thanks Forgotten One, youve brightened my day after I read that!
|
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
|
 |
|
|
EcThelion
Learned Scribe
Norway
323 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2004 : 16:31:56
|
Huh? You actually managed to read it? After writing it I didn't, myself. I was so IRRITATED by all the misstypes that I considered writing a flame ot myself, but concluded that if I had the lack of self-controll to write it in the first place, I'd probably not care about beign flamed
I've been flamed (or have flamed... shame on me) so many times that I've lost count of them. (Not that I ever kept track, though).
Around here I've not managed to find a sinlge flame, though. And that's despite my, at some times, highly annoying posts, I dare presume... 
I've been known to be annoying, atleast - |
Ec'Thelion, formerly known as Forgotten One, now known as Ec'Thelion the Overpowered.
Currently not all that active. I'm preoccupied with Warcraft III for the moment. Bite me :P |
|
|
|
Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2004 : 16:44:53
|
::lobs an orb of fire on the Forgotten One's head::
Happy now?
Seriously, we have a rather strict free-speech-until-you-become-disruptive-and-refuse-to-stop policy here. (See the "Favorite Quote" in my profile -- I put that up after someone kept attacking Zemd verbally.) We also have an informal teaching tradition here as well -- if you come with a question, we answer. We don't usually tell you to look it up yourself.
Unless, of course, it's a question that has been asked so many times, like "what's your favorite character" or "what's the order to the books" -- then a more experienced member will direct the questioner to some older scrolls or to the scrying room. Alaundo doesn't like duplicate scrolls very much -- too hard on his indexing system. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
|
|
|
EcThelion
Learned Scribe
Norway
323 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2004 : 20:13:34
|
Okay.
So... who'd win? Elminster or Drizzt? |
Ec'Thelion, formerly known as Forgotten One, now known as Ec'Thelion the Overpowered.
Currently not all that active. I'm preoccupied with Warcraft III for the moment. Bite me :P |
|
|
|
Simon Says
Acolyte
36 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2004 : 21:34:26
|
Well, here I am, shuttled over from the now-defunct Forgotten Realms Novels board in order to speak my mind.
Someone above mentioned "Their loss is Candlekeep's gain." I'm not sure about THAT ... but likely this will be a busier place.
So, for introductions, I am Simon (duh), and I am happy to speak to Forgotten Realms fans, players, designers, and authors alike. Like most of you (people being a bold lot here on the anonymous 'net) I speak my mind. Unlike most others, I do not bruise easily. So call me names; I'll likely just smile and quip back a vague and nonsensical somethingorother.
All in fun.
One of the things I am fond of doing is critiquing novels - the good, the bad, the ugly, and Forgotten Realms books have large numbers of each. I am not here to bash authors, however. My hope is that, egos aside, we can begin a dialogue that, with decent participation, might help to bring about change in the way WotC THINKS we like our novels.
...........unfortunately, this being a non-WotC site, it may very well be akin to throwing rocks against one neighbor's wall in order to get the attention of the other neighbor down the street. Perhaps a letter-writing campaign would get better results, but myself ... I like feedback.
Many of the problems I see in some of these books are a direct result, I believe, of WotC's infamous writing "formula". Though I could be wrong. Hopefully this Candlekeep forum will let me know if I err in assuming.
Another distinct possibility is that many of you LIKE the current wave of FR novels, and wouldn't change one whit. Which is fine. Speak and be heard!
Above all, thanks for listening.
Simon
|
And the trees were all kept equal - by hatchet, axe, and saw. --Peart |
|
|
|
BrokenRulz
Acolyte
USA
29 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2004 : 21:36:02
|
Elminster would win. And now on to other things!
For the Novels...
This may be a question for the authors or maybe nobody will know. How many people are there who plot out the Timelines for Toril events? What I mean is...who gets together and sets out what is going to take place during the Year of This and the Year of That and if these monumental events will need a Novel or not? Also, does anyone have a count on how many books per line get released a year? |
D. |
|
|
|
EcThelion
Learned Scribe
Norway
323 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2004 : 22:58:42
|
quote:
So, for introductions, I am Simon (duh), and I am happy to speak to Forgotten Realms fans, players, designers, and authors alike. Like most of you (people being a bold lot here on the anonymous 'net) I speak my mind. Unlike most others, I do not bruise easily. So call me names; I'll likely just smile and quip back a vague and nonsensical somethingorother.
All in fun.
That almost sounds like the words of a troublemaker in the making. 
quote:
Elminster would win. And now on to other things!
Well ofcourse he would win. I just said it to make my point. Or was it Bookwyrms point? I can't properly remember... |
Ec'Thelion, formerly known as Forgotten One, now known as Ec'Thelion the Overpowered.
Currently not all that active. I'm preoccupied with Warcraft III for the moment. Bite me :P |
|
|
|
Kameron M. Franklin
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
228 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2004 : 23:58:32
|
quote:
Originally posted by BrokenRulz
For the Novels...
This may be a question for the authors or maybe nobody will know. How many people are there who plot out the Timelines for Toril events? What I mean is...who gets together and sets out what is going to take place during the Year of This and the Year of That and if these monumental events will need a Novel or not? Also, does anyone have a count on how many books per line get released a year?
From my understanding, it is primarily the editors who sit down and plan out the novel storyline for the year. Phil Athans is the managing editor for the Forgotten Realms line. I would bet that the authors they want to write the novels would also be included in discussions. |
"You keep saying that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." --Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride |
|
|
|
Simon Says
Acolyte
36 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 00:00:59
|
What are you implying, Forgotten One???
How dare you!
I'll report you for this slight!!!
<runs off to make his little report>
<runs back, out of breath>
Hey, who do I report such obvious villainy to?
 |
And the trees were all kept equal - by hatchet, axe, and saw. --Peart |
|
|
|
EcThelion
Learned Scribe
Norway
323 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 00:23:39
|
Hmmm... indeed.
I think I should start considering a namechange. |
Ec'Thelion, formerly known as Forgotten One, now known as Ec'Thelion the Overpowered.
Currently not all that active. I'm preoccupied with Warcraft III for the moment. Bite me :P |
|
|
|
Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 00:55:09
|
| Alaundo is our leader, take all complaints to him. (Won't he be happy about this?) |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
|
|
|
Crust
Learned Scribe
USA
273 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 03:24:52
|
I'm actually glad that the demise of the novels forum on WotC has led me here. I was getting sick of seeing Big Sister close boards left and right when I saw no reason for it. It wasn't until she became moderator that the boards fell under the heel of harsh discipline. Further, being reminded of the tiresome CoC rules time and again was wearing on my tolerance level. I felt like I was being chastised over and over again for the same offense that wasn't really an offense at all. 
I recall her giving a warning about closing a thread concerning drow elven characters in an FR campaign. She insisted that any drow characters posted include something involving FR specifically, as if being "just" drow isn't FR enough. That was a poor call. If I thought my voice meant anything to WotC, I'd petition to have her removed.
I've grown sick of it. The FR forums have been stagnated by the heavy hand of unwavering discipline that sometimes goes too far... i.e., the closing of the novels forum (not that that was Big Sis' decision).
|
"That's right, hurl back views that force ye to think by name-calling - 'tis the grand old tradition, let it not down! Anything to keep from having to think, or - Mystra forfend - change thy own views!"
Narnra glowered at her father. "Just how am I to learn how to think? By being taught by you?"
"Some folk in the Realms would give their lives for the chance to learn at my feet," Elminster said mildly. "Several already have."
~from Elminster's Daughter, Ed Greenwood |
|
|
|
SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 05:32:43
|
quote:
Originally posted by Crust
I recall her giving a warning about closing a thread concerning drow elven characters in an FR campaign. She insisted that any drow characters posted include something involving FR specifically, as if being "just" drow isn't FR enough.
Well, that's...interesting. I hate that I missed that thread....would have been fun to contribute a few FR tidbits for a drow that would have made her happy. |
|
|
|
Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 05:42:04
|
| Ahh, I can see where this is going Sirius...... And I must admit, I like your train of thought. |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
|
|
|
Simon Says
Acolyte
36 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 06:09:03
|
Heavenly days. Crust hath arrived (arriven?).
If Darkmistress, About Yea High, and Elric of the Ruby Throne poke their noses in here, I'm running for the hills.
(Juuuust kidding, Crust---and for all you who don't know him, don't hate him until you give him a few weeks) (or months) |
And the trees were all kept equal - by hatchet, axe, and saw. --Peart |
|
|
|
Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 06:25:38
|
What, Simon, you missed me? *snarks* Don't worry; I'll try to find a way to contact Elric and drag him here, kicking and screaming, just for you. (What's wrong with Yea, though...?)
And while I may argue to the death with Crust about Ed Greenwood's writing, I agree with him about the Novels board. Hey, Crust, d'you frequent/lurk the GAFF? |
|
|
|
Adrian Moonbow
Seeker
Denmark
64 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 10:36:36
|
Wow, Crust and Darkmistress!
What about Tiny Silver Chalise? About Yeah High?
I feel like I'm home again! |
"I would have wanted not to die.
I would have wanted never to grow up!"
-Quidam
|
|
|
|
Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 10:48:09
|
quote:
Originally posted by Shadowlord
Alaundo is our leader, take all complaints to him. (Won't he be happy about this?)
Well met
Oh i'm sure the new scribes wont be causing me any unnecessary grief and extra work within the library  ....else woe be tide!  |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
|
|
|
|
Simon Says
Acolyte
36 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 18:08:23
|
<GASPS> It's ... it's Alaundo!! Revered scribe of Candlekeep!
Back, fell moderator! Back, I say!! I'll cast a Summon MWallace spell!Adrian Moonbow and Silverfox have joined ranks in my Band of Lawful-Selfish Naer-Do-Wells and we've forced Crust to come along through the clever usage of hot pokers!
No sign of Alrunic or his glimmering wife, no sign of Gerri, and no sign of About Yea Short, but curse your withered bones---if you come a step closer I shall be forced to name-drop more folk you don't recognize (nor likely care about!)
And nobody wants that! Back, I say! |
And the trees were all kept equal - by hatchet, axe, and saw. --Peart |
|
|
|
EcThelion
Learned Scribe
Norway
323 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 18:13:44
|
Personally I tend to wait a few weeks before I start poking the moderator(s). (Just you wait! (I'm joking by the way (You never know (sorry  ))))
If you start poking them right away they might, as in this case, smack you with the Staff of the Irritated Moderator +3 +5 before you have hitpoints to deal with it, so to speak.
Personally I still tremble in the wake of Alaundo. Only Bookwyrm and The Sage have HP enough to stand up to him for a few rounds |
Ec'Thelion, formerly known as Forgotten One, now known as Ec'Thelion the Overpowered.
Currently not all that active. I'm preoccupied with Warcraft III for the moment. Bite me :P |
Edited by - EcThelion on 29 Jan 2004 23:28:51 |
|
|
|
Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 20:10:11
|
quote:
Originally posted by Simon Says
<GASPS> It's ... it's Alaundo!! Revered scribe of Candlekeep!
Back, fell moderator! Back, I say!! I'll cast a Summon MWallace spell!Adrian Moonbow and Silverfox have joined ranks in my Band of Lawful-Selfish Naer-Do-Wells and we've forced Crust to come along through the clever usage of hot pokers!
No sign of Alrunic or his glimmering wife, no sign of Gerri, and no sign of About Yea Short, but curse your withered bones---if you come a step closer I shall be forced to name-drop more folk you don't recognize (nor likely care about!)
And nobody wants that! Back, I say!
Well met, Simon Says (?!)
Hot Pokers?! Mind you keep that well away from these scrolls and tomes, lest you feel my wrath!
::turns to regard Forgotten One:: And thats a Staff of Irritated Moderator +5, by the way |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
|
Edited by - Alaundo on 29 Jan 2004 20:11:07 |
|
|
|
Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 20:49:05
|
Yes, Forgotten One, he upgraded...... Now he's even worse!
Hey, Alaundo, you never got back to me about the e-mail issue about being doorman for the CK Inn. I can't create a new account because it says my e-mail address is already in use. I'm looking for a solution, so I'd appretiate it if you got back to me. |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
|
|
|
Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 20:57:30
|
quote:
Originally posted by Shadowlord
Yes, Forgotten One, he upgraded...... Now he's even worse!
Hey, Alaundo, you never got back to me about the e-mail issue about being doorman for the CK Inn. I can't create a new account because it says my e-mail address is already in use. I'm looking for a solution, so I'd appretiate it if you got back to me.
Well met, Shadowlord
::thumbs through his in-tray::
Hmmmm theres nothing here on such a matter, Shadowlord.... however, Ill pen you a personal scroll on the matter. |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
|
|
|
|
Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 21:08:14
|
| Ah, thank thee Alaundo. I do know you are so prompt in such matters. |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
|
|
|
EcThelion
Learned Scribe
Norway
323 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 23:33:26
|
Fixed.
Huh? The moderator? Going off-topic? HAVE YOU NO SELF-CONTROLL!? ARR-
: : smack : :
: : The sound eccoes through the hallway for a few more seconds, and you can see The Forgotten One crawling off to some dark corner of the castle to serve his sentence. : :  |
Ec'Thelion, formerly known as Forgotten One, now known as Ec'Thelion the Overpowered.
Currently not all that active. I'm preoccupied with Warcraft III for the moment. Bite me :P |
|
|
|
JamesLowder
Forgotten Realms Author & Game Designer
USA
310 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 01:54:04
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kameron M. Franklin
From my understanding, it is primarily the editors who sit down and plan out the novel storyline for the year. Phil Athans is the managing editor for the Forgotten Realms line. I would bet that the authors they want to write the novels would also be included in discussions.
With a few exceptions, the individual authors do not seem to be particularly involved in the plotting/scheduling stage. That was not always the case. In the mid- to late-90s, TSR/WotC began coordinating in house so that all the novels released in a real-world year would be set in DR-year X or Y. This required the line editor to do a lot more of the initial planning, the authors to be less involved in the concept stage for their novels. In fact, many more of the basic plots for Realms novels are driven from in house these days than in times past. Threat From the Sea, Stormweather, War of the Spider Queen, and so on are all driven, initially, by characters and plots generated, to one degree or another, in house.
In the past, the Harpers books, for example, opened a number of slots each year and asked for authors to come up with proposals for books involving Harpers. That was the extent of the guidance offered at the proposal stage. The book proposals that surprised the editors--explored the Realms in interesting ways--were chosen. These days, it is far more likely that a specific author will be contacted by WotC about a specific book, with a location and maybe even plot details and even the main character already in place. Not all the books are done this way [EDIT ADD: The trilogies being written by some of the Spider Queen authors, for example, are more author-driven], but a significant number of them are still fairly company-driven.
Cheers,
Jim Lowder |
Edited by - JamesLowder on 30 Jan 2004 05:12:33 |
|
|
|
Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 14:19:32
|
I think you may be overstating the case just a tad, Jim. I would say that the FR editors often come up with the basic concept or subject matter (e.g., "We want a book about rogues," or, "We want an epic trilogy focusing on the dragons of the Realms, and it would be cool if a Rage of Dragons was part of the story"), but the writers generally supply the characters and actual plot. At least that's been my experience.
Even in the case of War of the Spider Queen, where there was by far the most editorial direction (of necessity, I think, with each novel being written by a different guy), I wound up concocting most of the plot in my installment, as well as many of the characters. Also, the writers of the first three novels participated in the big planning session for the series, so when editorial handed us our instructions, they were instructions that we helped to come up with ourselves.
Now, you're one hundred percent right that nobody asks us about scheduling. Or anyway, they're not asking me. |
|
|
|
Edward Bolme
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 18:46:42
|
| Regardless, I'll expect to see an Eberron Novels Board when the time comes. |
Edward Bolme
http://www.bolme.com/books.htm |
|
|
|
JamesLowder
Forgotten Realms Author & Game Designer
USA
310 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 19:06:32
|
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
I think you may be overstating the case just a tad, Jim. I would say that the FR editors often come up with the basic concept or subject matter (e.g., "We want a book about rogues," or, "We want an epic trilogy focusing on the dragons of the Realms, and it would be cool if a Rage of Dragons was part of the story".
Which is the plotting/scheduling stage. And authors are currently rarely involved in that. Because authors are being asked to react to this scheduling--where it is decided what types of books, often what general plots, characters, and settings for books, go on the plan for the coming year--the authors are in a reactive, not an active role in determining content.
Being asked to write a book about dragons involving a rage, even if you are given input on how that book is later shaped, is limiting for the author far more than being asked to propose a Realms book you want to write without that restriction. You are limited from the start by a house-driven idea. You may be able to do some nifty things within those guides, but you can't, for example, propose a book about unicorns. So you are limited in what you can do.
At one time, the push was for less guides, less restrictions on content, with the authors being asked to pitch books before the schedule was set, or slots being set so wide (as in the Harpers) that they were essentially open for author input. The opposite has been true for years now. Some books are more author-driven than others--some of the Spider Queen spin-offs [Thomas Reid's trilogy, for example] are much more like the old "what-do-you-want-to-write-about" set-ups--but War of the Spider Queen is more typical than not these days. Threat From the Sea, Stormweather, etc, were all house-driven projects, with various and sundry limitations on characters, plots, settings, and so on. And that makes it clear that the line is being directed much more specifically from in house.
quote:
but the writers generally supply the characters and actual plot. At least that's been my experience.
The rough guides for characters, setting, and occasionally plot are being handed to the authors rather often. And I am talking about "We want a book about this sort of character, set in this part of the world," not fully formed plots. Authors flesh the bare bones out, but again, that's not the same as an author starting with a blank page and trying to sell the editor on an idea that is author-generated.
Is the author still called upon to be creative, even when handed rough guides? Of course! I'm not dissing you here, Richard. In fact, in some ways it is much harder to write a good book when you are given even a couple limitations.
I've done books for TSR/WotC under more reactive conditions (Knight of the Black Rose) and more creator-driven conditions (Prince of Lies or Ring of Winter) and know that they are not exactly the same processes. Your editor gives you problem X, with the various factors to be considered, and asks you to solve it. That's not the same as determining what problem you're going to be asked, in addition to how you solve it.
Cheers,
Jim Lowder |
|
|
|
Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 20:29:22
|
We hear online from novelists, freelance and in-house game designers and managers, but not from TSR/WotC's book editors -- I for one am curious about their thinking sometimes, and I wonder if a little more contact would reduce misunderstanding and wrong speculations.
Both the relatively all-over-the-place Realms books of the 90s (the 1360s DR) and the new more strictly coordinated timeline have their good and bad points, and I see the appeal of anonymity to the people making these major decisions about the setting, but I don't think I like it. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
WotC Novel Boards Closing
