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Thomas M. Reid
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
334 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Jan 2004 : 21:17:52
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If you haven't already heard, Wizards is planning to close down the novels portion of their message boards as of Friday, the 23rd. They intend to include a page of links to other sites as a surrogate to the forums. All other Wizards product lines, including RPGs, will still have forums available. You can read more about it >> here. << Looks like you might be getting a little more traffic to this site soon, Alaundo.
Thomas
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"A knight is not truly virtuous, only truly resolved to be so."
www.thomasmreid.com |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2004 : 21:27:00
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What!?!?!? I've seen Wizards make some bad decisions before, but this is ridiculous. Thank you for the news, great author. It appears you are right. We probably will be recieving a few more scribes..... |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2004 : 21:47:47
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What a ridiculous decision! Yet more evidence that WotC dont give a monkeys about their own stuff
well maybe thats a bit harsh but i really cant see the reasoning behind this! Surely they are aware that FR authors visit the WotC forums for feedback on their novels! |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31777 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2004 : 00:47:40
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Indeed, you are very right Rad.
But as Mr Reid just said, it is most likely that Candlekeep will be receiving an influx of new scribes very soon. So I look at it like this - what is WotC's loss, is Candlekeep's gain...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2004 : 00:59:04
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| Very true Sage. And look, I've attained learned scribe status. YaY! |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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Cyric
Senior Scribe
Norway
388 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2004 : 16:18:56
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| Yes it is and one of them might just be a follower of Cyric, i say this is a greath thing. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2004 : 17:09:51
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I haven't gone to the official boards to look at this announcement as I always visit Candlekeep first. <Insert Gold Star here for me> So, I'm at a bit of a loss...is there an explanation as to why????
I'm biting back some comments here before hearing of any reason. |
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Signal-9
Acolyte
Canada
37 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2004 : 23:20:46
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Hello all,
This is my first time here at candlekeep.com, but im sure I will have a good stay... Admins you can thank WOTC and the closure of thier FR novel board.
Im looking forward to some interesting discussions.
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"Dont make him come near me, Tanis !. I assure you. I am capable of this, truly. What i have sought all my life is within my grasp. I will let nothing stop me. Look at Caramon's face, Tanis ! He Knows ! I kiled him once. I can do it again..."
- Raistlin (Dragons of Spring Dawning)
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2004 : 07:20:28
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*latches onto the new home*
*digs out a niche and burrows in*
I won't mourn the Wizards.com novel forum overmuch. The moderating there is getting a bit much. I understand if the WizOs would want to close down threads that have escalated into flamewars, but there was an occasion where a thread -- not started by me, mind -- was locked. The reason? The WizO said that this might get flamey.
Yup. Perfect logic. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2004 : 15:33:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Winterfox
I won't mourn the Wizards.com novel forum overmuch. The moderating there is getting a bit much. I understand if the WizOs would want to close down threads that have escalated into flamewars, but there was an occasion where a thread -- not started by me, mind -- was locked. The reason? The WizO said that this might get flamey.
Well, not to defend the moderators, but to give you some perspective...Earlier this month, first weekend I believe in fact, I got a private message from a WOTC moderator wanting an explanation for a joke I had made in a message about the Elven Retreat being over. Being throughly confused as to why this moderator, by the impression he/she was giving me, thought I had violated Code of Conduct, I explained the joke and asked how that could be interpreted as being offensive. The explanation I got back was a quick backpedal as he/she realized the silliness of trying to warn me about the message followed by and I'm paraphrasing here:
We recently had an author complain about some of the posts on the boards. Thus, we [moderators] are being extra sensitive to any comments about authors and/or their works.
I'd love...I'd pay.....I'd sacrifice something perhaps to know which author complained and what the thread was that prompted the complaint.
I have no idea if that statement is part of the reason the novels boards are closing down. I have no idea if it's purely financial. I have a great deal of opinion, but opinion is just that...opinion.
Bottom line, there is a great deal more going on then what any of us will ever know. |
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Signal-9
Acolyte
Canada
37 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2004 : 16:51:15
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I have seen some flames towards authors on the WOTC forums, and i even told one guy to either post some constructive criticism or dont say anything.
But to close a whole message board just because of that ??? sounds like the easy way out to me. |
"Dont make him come near me, Tanis !. I assure you. I am capable of this, truly. What i have sought all my life is within my grasp. I will let nothing stop me. Look at Caramon's face, Tanis ! He Knows ! I kiled him once. I can do it again..."
- Raistlin (Dragons of Spring Dawning)
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2004 : 05:38:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Signal-9
But to close a whole message board just because of that ??? sounds like the easy way out to me.
Check out this thread http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2403784#post2403784 from which I got the following:
Posting for Mary Kirchoff
____________________
The decision to close WotC's book message boards rests solely with me and has been in the planning for some time. As an author and a publisher, I fully understand the value of the boards to consumers, WotC, and the authors. However, as the vice president of publishing for Wizards, which includes both Books and Roleplaying Games, I also understand the cost in time and resources. It is my responsibility to make sure those resources are wisely spent. Creating separate Books and RPG forums for discussion for each of our worlds was made years ago, at a time when Books and RPGs were in separate divisions of the company with separate marketing budgets. The Book Publishing department has made a business decision to focus on website content and other initiatives due to the fact many of our authors have their own boards where fans can converse. I'm sorry for the loss of connection some long-time web friends may feel as a result of this decision, but I hope that they will be able to reconnect at our other boards or those provided by our authors.
I understand that it's far more interesting to speculate about corporate conspiracies, but there really isn't one here. I'd be less than honest if I didn't admit that the final decision was made easier in light of the volume of extremely negative and insensitive chatter last fall that distracted authors, and the Publishing and Web team staffs alike. We take very seriously our responsibilities to our fans, our authors, and our company to publish the best shared-world fiction and bring it to market in the best possible light. Now everyone will have a little more time to do just that.
Mary Kirchoff
Vice President, Publishing
Wizards of the Coast
**
Quite frankly, the last paragraph to me comes across as very insulting. Posts "distracted authors, and the Publishing and Web team staffs alike????" What are these people? Five? They don't have self-discipline or control to ignore a thread and do work? That makes no sense and I just can't believe a Vice President just said that about her employees. |
Edited by - SiriusBlack on 24 Jan 2004 05:44:44 |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2004 : 06:12:20
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SiriusBlack said:
quote:
Well, not to defend the moderators, but to give you some perspective...Earlier this month, first weekend I believe in fact, I got a private message from a WOTC moderator wanting an explanation for a joke I had made in a message about the Elven Retreat being over. Being throughly confused as to why this moderator, by the impression he/she was giving me, thought I had violated Code of Conduct, I explained the joke and asked how that could be interpreted as being offensive. The explanation I got back was a quick backpedal as he/she realized the silliness of trying to warn me about the message followed by and I'm paraphrasing here:
This is why I've been holding the Wizards.com Novel forum in less-than-good view. The level of sensitivity there was becoming ridiculous, and it's not just the mods. There was one time, here: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=132480&highlight=head
WizO_BigSister made a joke:
quote:
I am sorry but I can't resist this! I know a lot of people really want to see inside Drizzt's head .... and they are just DYING to open it up with a big axe <insert smiley>
EC said:
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Well, this is just dandy. Now this particular brand of character-bashing negativity is being supported by the WotC moderators.
<snip>
True enough. I doubt any reasonable person would argue, however, that a smilie disclaimer is sufficient to counteract any and all inappropriate comments. Of course, what constitutes "appropriate" is a matter open for interpretation.
Moderators set the tone for the boards. If this is the tone WotC wants for their official site, so be it.
James Lowder chimed in:
quote:
To amplify this--if she wears the Moderator badge, then she is supposed to avoid all appearance of partisanship. This is the official WotC board and she the official moderator. She is therefore the official WotC rep here, acting with their permission, as their voice in matters of board conduct.
Given that she knows how unpleasant and divisive comments have been here, on this very topic, she should not have made a joke about it. The fact that the standard RAS-bashers took up the joke makes that even more clear.
Practical application: Seeing her comment, smiley included, made me rethink why she shut down the thread where I was taking some posters to task for being rude to RAS. Whether or not she is biased, she has certainly given public indication that she is not "above the fray," as her position would, I hope, require her to be.
Cheers,
James Lowder
There's appropriate reprimand, and there's outright overreaction. (By the way, I was apparently one of the "some posters taken to task for being rude to RAS." You know what, I started that thread in which Mr. Lowder "took people to task", and WizO_BigSister ended up shutting it down because it was getting off-topic. She even sent me a polite PM asking me to be less flippant and emphatic. I'm certain she's biased and bears RAS tons of ill will.) |
Edited by - Winterfox on 24 Jan 2004 10:31:20 |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2004 : 06:39:01
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Winterfox? What kind of name is that?
quote:
By the way, I was apparently one of the "some posters taken to task for being rude to RAS."
Yeah, the person making that boast, has gone out of his way to take people to task regarding a great many subjects with some of the most arrogant postings I've seen from any message boarder. A fine example of the pot calling the kettle black.
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JamesLowder
Forgotten Realms Author & Game Designer
USA
310 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2004 : 06:57:29
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Hi:
The WotC boards were supposed to: 1) help sell products, and 2) promote a sense of community among fans. They are corporate boards, paid for by the company to achieve those goals. The rules of conduct for them are different from public, non-corporate boards. Yes, negativity was frowned upon--should have been frowned upon--because those posts damaged the sense of community and drove people away from products. I lost count of the number of times "fanboys" were attacked for saying positive things. Great way to build a community, that.
This was not the only reason the boards were shut down. The negativity factored in, but the company did what it did for reasons that were not shared with the authors, that did not involve the authors in any way.
But it is naive for anyone to suggest that you somehow have a right to go on a company board and slash the employees, staff or freelance, and the products, and that the company should then pay for those boards to be maintained so that your negative comments should be broadcast around the world.
Cheers,
James Lowder |
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JamesLowder
Forgotten Realms Author & Game Designer
USA
310 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2004 : 07:11:28
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
Yeah, the person making that boast, has gone out of his way to take people to task regarding a great many subjects with some of the most arrogant postings I've seen from any message boarder. A fine example of the pot calling the kettle black.
Heh. A boast how, precisely?
And you might not like being taken to task--and, gee, but that sounds like you whining about being criticized on the WotC boards--but when you post about subjects for which you have no understanding, that's going to happen to you now and then.
Cheers,
James Lowder |
Edited by - JamesLowder on 24 Jan 2004 07:20:29 |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2004 : 09:04:14
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James Lowder said:
quote:
Yes, negativity was frowned upon--should have been frowned upon--because those posts damaged the sense of community and drove people away from products. I lost count of the number of times "fanboys" were attacked for saying positive things. Great way to build a community, that.
Of course, sticking fingers in your ears and singing "LALALA, I can't hear you!" in regard to negative comments is a great way to build a community, too. Right? Because everyone knows filling up the place with fanboys who will worship and sing mindless praises is the best way to ensure balanced feedback. Not that anyone wants to, you know, see the products improved and/or errors corrected. (And considering the sheer number of errors found in sourcebooks -- well.)
quote:
But it is naive for anyone to suggest that you somehow have a right to go on a company board and slash the employees, staff or freelance, and the products, and that the company should then pay for those boards to be maintained so that your negative comments should be broadcast around the world.
I wonder, will WotC start sending cease-and-desist letters to Amazon.com/BN.com/et all to shut down their reviewing systems? |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2004 : 10:11:20
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Well met
First of all, thank ye for bringing this piece of news over to us, Thomas M. Reid, and for the other scribes herein providing that little extra....if somewhat disturbing, information.
Let it be said, that we welcome all FR novel scribes here in Candlekeep, a fair number of which are already prisoners residents within these halls 
Furthormore, we will NOT tolerate any slander or ill words against such...ahem, "guests"!  . Views on authors novels and requests for further information are more than welcome, indeed we have a Scribes Desk for your reviews, not all are shining reviews but any critisism is done POLITELY! Woe be tide anyone who disobeys these simple rules, say I! |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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Elfinblade
Senior Scribe
Norway
377 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2004 : 15:06:26
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| I personally think it is a shame that the boards lose such a valuable source of information about the novels, but hey! we still got candlekeep right? it`s just a matter of priority. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2004 : 15:15:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Elfinblade
I personally think it is a shame that the boards lose such a valuable source of information about the novels, but hey! we still got candlekeep right? it`s just a matter of priority.
I'm waiting for that conspiracy theory will start.
Poster #1: "Do you know what I heard? The people at Candlekeep flooded the WOTC novel board with negative comments to get it shut down so everyone would go to their board."
Poster #2: "I knew it! Don't they have some Vhaeraun followers over there."
Poster #1: "Exactly. Watch this one message posted by SiriusBlack. Notice the pattern here....back...and to the left...back....and to the left...with all his replies. Clearly a part of a larger conspiracy."
Or of course the inevitable speculation also will surface that....the novels board is closing down which means WOTC is about to be sold, go bankrupt, be taken over by Microsoft. Take your choice. |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2004 : 17:48:30
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hehehehe youre too paranoid SiriusBlack
Shame the board closed..... you were always a good supplier of any snippets of upcoming releases you heard over there  Youll have to find a new source of information before Alaundo deems your role now redundant and confines you to sweeping the basement  |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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JamesLowder
Forgotten Realms Author & Game Designer
USA
310 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2004 : 18:46:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Winterfox
Of course, sticking fingers in your ears and singing "LALALA, I can't hear you!" in regard to negative comments is a great way to build a community, too. Right? Because everyone knows filling up the place with fanboys who will worship and sing mindless praises is the best way to ensure balanced feedback.
WotC is not trying to provide balanced feedback. The boards are intended for promotional purposes--as in, to help sell more WotC product. Even building the community is secondary to that. They are a business--they want the sense of community so that people will enjoy the games and--wait for it--buy more products.
Given that purpose, they have no real reason to house attacks against their fans or the constant, repetitious muttering and shrieking against certain authors and series. To expect them to do so is like saying someone should be required to buy magazine ad space to promote a book and run the negative quotes as part of that ad. It makes no sense.
Your further comment about Amazon shows that you don't get the business aspects of this, either. WotC isn't paying for Amazon to list its books. But if WotC were to pony up some money for an Amazon promo campaign, you can be certain they would not allow that promo to foreground negative reviews.
And if Amazon decides that negative reviews are preventing it from doing its business--selling more books--they will stop them, too. As is, Amazon doesn't care what books you buy, so long as you buy books. So long as the negative reviews don't get in the way of that, swell. WotC, on its site, has to be more concerned about WotC's lines.
Cheers,
James Lowder |
Edited by - JamesLowder on 24 Jan 2004 18:53:25 |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2004 : 01:04:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Rad
hehehehe youre too paranoid SiriusBlack
I figured you'd say something like that since you are against me too.
quote:
Shame the board closed..... you were always a good supplier of any snippets of upcoming releases you heard over there Youll have to find a new source of information before Alaundo deems your role now redundant and confines you to sweeping the basement
Before? <Looks down at broom in hand> Alaundo told me this was just a lateral transfer.
Seriously, there are plenty of other good sources for gaming information online. ENWorld and Gaming Report both come to mind. Thank you for the compliment by the way. Always a pleasure to share information with the people I've met from this board as the folks here are very classy in how they conduct themselves. |
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Valdar Oakensong
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
159 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2004 : 21:30:06
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Lets be honest it wont be missed much, everybody comes here now, don' they |
Guns don't kill people, magic missiles do. |
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Lameth
Learned Scribe
Germany
196 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2004 : 23:17:21
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I want to say hello. I`m coming direct from the WotC Board and it`s so lame that they shut down there Novel Board, without speaking to the fans in the first way.
I hope everyone understands me, my "writing english" isn`t very good.
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Lina
Senior Scribe
Australia
469 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2004 : 01:43:26
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| What the WotC Board is closing!! Not that I would miss it as I've never used it. But it's a shame I didn't do enough surfing while on their site. Oh well. |
“Darkness beyond twilight, crimson beyond blood that flows! Buried in the flow of time. In thy great name. I pledge myself to darkness. All the fools who stand in our way shall be destroyed…by the power you and I possess! DRAGON SLAVE!!!”
"Thieves? Ah, such an ugly word... look upon them as the most honest sort of merchant."
-Oglar the Thieflord |
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Adrian Moonbow
Seeker
Denmark
64 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2004 : 14:09:34
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I've just taken the "long" road from WotC to here too. I just hope I'll get the same good info and interaction with writers (and fellow fans) as I got yonder way.
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"I would have wanted not to die.
I would have wanted never to grow up!"
-Quidam
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2004 : 15:53:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Lameth
I hope everyone understands me, my "writing english" isn`t very good.
Your English is fine. Welcome to you and to Adrian Moonbow. |
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Lameth
Learned Scribe
Germany
196 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2004 : 00:34:37
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Lameth
I hope everyone understands me, my "writing english" isn`t very good.
Your English is fine. Welcome to you and to Adrian Moonbow.
Oh.... thanks. |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2004 : 01:18:36
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
<snip>
Poster #2: "I knew it! Don't they have some Vhaeraun followers over there."
<snip>
Of course, insult the Vhaeraunites like me just because we worship an evil drow god of thievery...... And just because I'm the one who's converting everyone, you have to admit, I have been far more successful than Cyric.....
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The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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EcThelion
Learned Scribe
Norway
323 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2004 : 01:33:26
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The problem about 'official' forums, and the like, is that they attract far too many people. This may sound a little strange, but Candlekeep, for one, is a great site. Not *that* many have heard of it, and certainly not the average Joe. This "Average Joe" allso usually happens to be the one that flames.
In addition to that we get all of these weirdos, that go around Roleplaying everywhere, acting like complete loonies, the bolyd gamrra reakfs* that hang around there, correcting every damn word, and often hurling out a insult while their at it
The big boards are just crowded by too many different kinds of people. Good thing that most of the ones with a relatively well developed sence of humor reside withing the Halls of Candlekeep, I say. This is the first board (Save Lavender Eyes, but that one is dominated by girls ) that I've ever been to where no-one has flamed me for something yet.
Example:
"What's up with tese portfolios, anyway?" I ask, and I actaulyl get a decent answer, not a
"Don't you ******* know what a protfolio is, you dumass? Go read the novels, ******! I can't bloody belive this! You even misspelled "tese" It's not "tese" It's "these"! GET THAT INTO YOUR HEAD! ARRRGH!"
or something liek that. I've seen that happen too many times. Good thing that peopel here are generalyl roleplayers (Nuff said)
(*bloody grammar freaks) |
Ec'Thelion, formerly known as Forgotten One, now known as Ec'Thelion the Overpowered.
Currently not all that active. I'm preoccupied with Warcraft III for the moment. Bite me :P |
Edited by - EcThelion on 28 Jan 2004 01:34:29 |
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Topic |
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WotC Novel Boards Closing
