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Entromancer
Senior Scribe
USA
388 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Jan 2013 : 17:56:18
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| Its a bit from the left field, but the Knight of the Black Rose novels from the Ravenloft line aren't Krynnish canon, according to Tracy Hickman. So I'd say Krynn is its own world, and the Spelljammer stuff is Elseworlds to the Dragonlance line. By extension, that would make Tiamat and Takhisis separate entities. I certainly find Tiamat's priesthood/minions more impressive than Takhisis's, but that's more a commentary on the types of fantasy that characterize Toril and Krynn. |
"...the will is everything. The will to act."--Ra's Al Ghul
"Suffering builds character."--Talia Al Ghul |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2013 : 01:01:07
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quote:
Originally posted by creyzi4zb12
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
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Originally posted by creyzi4zb12
Is it possible that the planets and stars in Dragonlance Krynnverse are smaller than the ones in Forgotten Realms?
There was this one instance in Dragonlance where Raistlin grew too powerful to become a starbuster.
Most stars in arcane space are not actually stars as well know them. They are instead very large critters, or portals to the plane of Radiance, or something else.
Wait, what?
Is this really true?
What kind of creature would that be? Some kind of huge Fire Elemental?
I mean, it must be really huge if you can actually see it so big from such a distance.
Fire elementals are one possibility. I've seen others that suggest ancient primordial beings of fire that predate the arch-elementals and elemental lords of the Planes of Fire and Radiance.
There's also the theory that the stars/portals connect to a particular Crystal Sphere's own star... |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2013 : 01:06:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Entromancer
Its a bit from the left field, but the Knight of the Black Rose novels from the Ravenloft line aren't Krynnish canon, according to Tracy Hickman. So I'd say Krynn is its own world, and the Spelljammer stuff is Elseworlds to the Dragonlance line. By extension, that would make Tiamat and Takhisis separate entities. I certainly find Tiamat's priesthood/minions more impressive than Takhisis's, but that's more a commentary on the types of fantasy that characterize Toril and Krynn.
Except that Wizards have declared that Soth in RAVENLOFT is canon -- for both worlds.
When Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman returned to TSR, there were reports of them saying that, as far as they were concerned, Soth never left Krynn for RAVENLOFT. To make their point, they even made Soth an "extra" in the novel Dragons of Summer Flame, released in 1995. This created a lot of [useless] confusion as to where Soth really is.
The official word from Wizards of the Coast is that Soth definitely did enter Ravenloft after the events of the novel Test of the Twins. And he definitely returned to Krynn in the autumn of 752 BC, during the events of the novel Spectre of the Black Rose, written by James Lowder. The in-game reasons behind Soth's escape, however, are nebulous and open to reader interpretation. Many interpreted it as a consequence of the fact that Soth was no longer feeling imprisoned and the Dark Powers decided to let go of their dull toy.
Also, although Soth definitely left Ravenloft in 752 BC, it has not been definitively stated when he reappeared on Krynn. Time flows strangely in RAVENLOFT when compared to other worlds and Soth could easily have reappeared in Dargaard Keep mere moments after he left it. Since then, Soth briefly appeared in other DRAGONLANCE novels before the authors of that setting eventually killed him off. In 3e products, you can find references to this character when the name "The Black Rose" is mentioned.
From James Lowder's own words on the Worlds of D&D forums:-
quote:
It was always my intention to have Soth's stay in Ravenloft a temporary one, and there was no pressure from WotC for me to plot the end of Spectre a certain way. I was on board with the idea of Soth returning to Krynn from the start.
When Knight of the Black Rose was planned, Margaret and Tracy were on bad terms with TSR, not working on anything with the company. As RL fiction line editor, I offered them both the chance to have input on the project, and Tracy the chance to write the book, but they declined. I understand why.
But I made it clear to them at the time Knight was proposed that I would do all I could to make certain Soth was not changed in such a way that he would be undermined when, or if, they came back to TSR to work on the DL line. When I could not find a writer who was capable of writing Knight without monkeying with Soth, the head of the department (Mary Kirchoff again) stepped in and asked me to take the assignment. It was an assignment I accepted somewhat reluctantly, I must admit. But it worked out for the best, I think.
In terms of continuity, I don't think it matters when Soth returns to Krynn in the DL timeline. Time works differently in the Mists, so he could be gone five minutes from Krynn, yet spend decades in the Dark Domains.
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2013 : 23:12:11
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| Was I the only one who thought Alaundo Of Candlekeep and Astinus of Palanthas were quite similar? (Sorry if I spelled em wrong) |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2013 : 23:42:38
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quote:
The Masked Mage
Was I the only one who thought Alaundo Of Candlekeep and Astinus of Palanthas were quite similar? (Sorry if I spelled em wrong)
Well, one is immortal. Perhaps a god or demigod or avatar of some sort.
The other is dead. Or condemned to serve eternity as a webmaster, which is pretty much the same thing. |
[/Ayrik] |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2013 : 23:57:12
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In the end (age of mortals, Astinus disappeared). Some said it was because he was a god, but that's just some people saying :) - like with Fizban...
I thought Alaundo lived a long time too for some reason, like a thousand years, but online says he only lived to like 100. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2013 : 02:35:40
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Was I the only one who thought Alaundo Of Candlekeep and Astinus of Palanthas were quite similar? (Sorry if I spelled em wrong)
There are some basic similarities... but Astinus is a great deal more "prevalently" intimate with the history of his world than Alaundo ever was with that of Toril. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2013 : 02:51:21
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
In the end (age of mortals, Astinus disappeared). Some said it was because he was a god, but that's just some people saying :) - like with Fizban...
It's not just some people saying it. There's reasonable enough suggestive evidence in the DL canon for numerous theories about Astinus being connected to Gilean. Some suggest that he's the God in mortal form. Others suggest some avatar-puppet. While numerous accounts point to Astinus being fostered by Gilean. The most prevalent theory in DL lore, however, is that Astinus is simply a mortal aspect of the God of the Book. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2013 : 01:02:01
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The most prevalent theory in DL lore, however, is that Astinus is simply a mortal aspect of the God of the Book.
Er, how does this differ from being an avatar?
I imagine that while avatars are all part of a greater entity, they are each independent (and perhaps quirky or imperfect!) "copies" of the deity. To my mind Astinus is just a bookish and nerdy avatar of Gilean who embodies whatever compartmentalized aspect of the god is interested in recording history.
The common assumption is that avatars are formed from "nothing" or perhaps created out of planar stuff from a deity's realm. I think avatars can also be created by "occupying" faithful vessels. Astinus could be the Krynn equivalent of a "Chosen" or "Exarch" or "Proxy". |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 28 Jan 2013 01:09:27 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2013 : 01:09:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
That last was always my view on him, too.
Which partly explains why, when the rest of the other gods disappeared during the Summer of Chaos, Astinus vanished as well. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2013 : 01:10:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
quote:
The most prevalent theory in DL lore, however, is that Astinus is simply a mortal aspect of the God of the Book.
Er, how does this differ from being an avatar?
I imagine that while avatars are all part of a greater entity, they are each independent (and perhaps quirky or imperfect!) "copies" of the deity. To my mind Astinus is just a bookish and nerdy avatar of Gilean who embodies whatever compartmentalized aspect of the god is obsessed with recording history.
I don't really think there is much difference. But I think the "mortal aspect" is key here -- in that, one version [mortal aspect] can be more easily "killed" than the other [full-blown avatar]. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Conections between Dragonlance gods and Toril/FR
