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Kyrel
Learned Scribe
151 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Nov 2012 : 20:17:01
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I'd like to ask you all a question rgd. your view on the following:
Drow get an LA+2. Is this reasonable in the FR setting in 3.5? And how does this affect the race as a PC race in a game where other players hasn't picked races with an LA?
My personal oppinion on this is that I find it somewhat difficult to justify the +2LA for the Drow.
I can get the +1LA hands down, but not +2. The bonus to the stats are nice, but I'll be honest and say that I could have lived without the +2Cha (I've never understood why the Drow got that bonus. I'd have expected a -2 rather than a +2, if anything!).
Darkness provides a slight defensive bonus, but it affects you as well (unless you combine with Faerie Fire), and you can still see in it, so this is not real great as an agressive tool in combat.
Dancing Lights can be used for distraction or illumination, but is that really an advantage to a Drow? These guys see better in darkness than most other creatures as it is.
Faerie Fire can be used in combination with Darkness to help eliminate the bonus miss chance granted by the Darkness spell, but other than that, does it really have a point?
Spell Resistance is an advantage, and normally provide you with a roughtly 50/50 chance to ignore a magical attack, though arguably it also gives you a 50/50 chance to miss out on the effects of other augmenting and helpful spells that are cast on you (i.e. Healing spells). Unless you spend a feat to be able to lower your resistance willingly (assuming I don't misunderstand/-remember the rules...).
The Elven save bonus is a boon. No question.
Light Blindness reduces your chance to hit an enemy while outside in daylight or similar.
With +2 level adjustment you will generally speaking hit 0-10% worse than your partners. You will have fewer HP (and a negative CON modifier on top). Your will have worse saves, (unless your stat scores are high enough to compensate somehow). You will be behind the curve in spell power, caster level and spell level access, and you might well be a Feat or two behind the rest of the party.
Reputation. Here's the real kicker IMO. Any GM that plays true to the setting, is going to be able to throw all kinds of crap at you, every time a Drow PC tries to interact with most other races, especially if the game takes place on the surface of Faerun. If this isn't a significant drawback, I don't know what is! Generally speaking you can expect to get into fights you don't want, pay more for your stuff (unless you intimidate people into selling you stuff at a better price), be remembered, stand out in the crowd, have everyone be weary of you etc.
Is this really worth LA+2? IMO no.
Anyway, what's your take on this issue? Why is LA+2 justifiable for a Realms PC Drow?
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2012 : 20:36:48
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Just use LA buy-off from Unearthed Arcana. Problem solved.
The race that really got screwed are the avariel. They're LA +3 when a regular elf with the winged template, which flies better that the statted avariel, is LA +1. That just makes no sense. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2012 : 20:44:19
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Game balance is always a hard thing to balance, factional levels makes things more complicated.
As to spell resistance quote:
A creature can voluntarily lower its spell resistance. Doing so is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Once a creature lowers its resistance, it remains down until the creature’s next turn. At the beginning of the creature’s next turn, the creature’s spell resistance automatically returns unless the creature intentionally keeps it down (also a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity).
which is innate ability and does not require a feat.
quote:
Light Blindness: Abrupt exposure to bright light (such as sunlight or a daylight spell) blinds drow for 1 round. On subsequent rounds, they are dazzled as long as they remain in the affected area.
clearly is a problem if Drow raid in sunlight, however daze is not that bad quote:
The creature is unable to see well because of overstimulation of the eyes. A dazzled creature takes a -1 penalty on attack rolls, Search checks, and Spot checks.
and it should be something like 90 percent of Drow are encountered in the dark, either underdark or the Night above.
A DM clearly can present Drow in combat in worst possible situation increasing the chance that they would lose battle. However you clearly missed the sleep poison that most Drow have with them.
As to the -2 on Con quote:
These traits are in addition to the high elf traits, except where noted.
an Elven trait including the +2 Int. that does not result from being a Drow. Yes saving throws are effected, however it also depends on class selected.
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2012 : 15:12:07
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| Why do you say you can still see in a darkness spell? I always thought no vision could pierce the magical dark... |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2012 : 19:58:50
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Well they nerfed Darkness in 3.5 quote:
This spell causes an object to radiate shadowy illumination out to a 20-foot radius. All creatures in the area gain concealment (20% miss chance). Even creatures that can normally see in such conditions (such as with darkvision or low-light vision) have the miss chance in an area shrouded in magical darkness.
Normal lights (torches, candles, lanterns, and so forth) are incapable of brightening the area, as are light spells of lower level. Higher level light spells are not affected by darkness.
However the point raised is valid, darkvision does not allow for better seeing in a darkness spell because one is Drow. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2012 : 20:30:23
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Right. 3.5e's Darkness led to such stupid conversations as:
"There's no light!"
"Don't worry, I'll cast Darkness! Then we can see!"
Sigh. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2012 : 21:37:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
Right. 3.5e's Darkness led to such stupid conversations as:
"There's no light!"
"Don't worry, I'll cast Darkness! Then we can see!"
Sigh.
Well those that argued that clearly were incorrect, darkness might not stack, however darkness clearly does not add light to an already dark condition. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Kyrel
Learned Scribe
151 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2012 : 22:53:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
As to spell resistance quote:
A creature can voluntarily lower its spell resistance. Doing so is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Once a creature lowers its resistance, it remains down until the creature’s next turn. At the beginning of the creature’s next turn, the creature’s spell resistance automatically returns unless the creature intentionally keeps it down (also a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity).
which is innate ability and does not require a feat.
I'm glad to hear that is the case. However, that makes me wonder why you have a feat that provides this ability? Or is that somehow an upgradede variant of the standard rule? Can't remember the exact wording of the Feat right not...
quote:
[i]quote:
Light Blindness: Abrupt exposure to bright light (such as sunlight or a daylight spell) blinds drow for 1 round. On subsequent rounds, they are dazzled as long as they remain in the affected area.
clearly is a problem if Drow raid in sunlight, however daze is not that bad quote:
The creature is unable to see well because of overstimulation of the eyes. A dazzled creature takes a -1 penalty on attack rolls, Search checks, and Spot checks.
and it should be something like 90 percent of Drow are encountered in the dark, either underdark or the Night above.
In case of an NPC or a PC in an underdark campaign I agree with you. However, my question was more related to Drow used as PC's in a more typical type game taking place above ground. In this case, a good number of your combats are liable to be happening while Dazed, and that puts your character's to hit roll yet another point behind the rest of the group. For a full BAB character meant to fight, that means that your to hit roll is down by 15% in comparison with other similar characters in the group. Sure, you can cast "Darkness" and fight in the shade, and then eliminate the 20% miss chance by casting Faerie Fire, but that's two rounds you just spent eliminating 5% of the 15% you were down in comparison with your partners.
quote:
A DM clearly can present Drow in combat in worst possible situation increasing the chance that they would lose battle. However you clearly missed the sleep poison that most Drow have with them.
Again, ref. the issue of the Drow being used as a PC in a non-Underdark campaign. Sleep Poison is not necessarily all that easy for a PC Drow to get a hold of, if they are not in the Underdark. And frankly, once you get on a few levels, the DC15 check isn't all that useful against most monsters of a similar CR.
quote:
As to the -2 on Con, these traits are in addition to the high elf traits, except where noted. An Elven trait including the +2 Int. that does not result from being a Drow. Yes saving throws are effected, however it also depends on class selected.
True, not all of the stat bonusses are unique to the Drow. But they still play a part in determining the ultimate LA.
As for the Saves, again true. A PC's saves do depend on the class in question, as well as the related stat. However, regardless of how you look at it, you are two levels behind your companions, so in some periods of the game your saves will be one or more points worse in comparison. Not necessarily a lot, but every point is an additional 5% cumulative chance that you mess up that save. At the end of the day it all adds up.
Now, I do realise that some of you suggest that the issue can easily be fixed by using the LA-buyoff rules. The thing is, you need to convince your GM about using these rules, and if your GM don't follow the RAW rules for awarding XP, but rather just tell people when they level up, you don't necessarily get the RAW intended higher amount of XP for being of a lower level, and thus continue to lag behind. Most of the GM's I play with use this approach. Anyway, I know. Houserules etc. can mess up the game balance and make it difficult to debate the game from a common reference point. |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1847 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2012 : 23:24:16
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| Gonna be honest here. I find the LA rules completely stupid and I dont use them when I DM. If I deem a race too powerful then PCs are simply disallowed from playing them. Fact is, a half-decent DM can work around most of the issues associated with races such as drow without being to overbearing with it. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4441 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2012 : 02:31:38
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quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
Gonna be honest here. I find the LA rules completely stupid and I dont use them when I DM. If I deem a race too powerful then PCs are simply disallowed from playing them. Fact is, a half-decent DM can work around most of the issues associated with races such as drow without being to overbearing with it.
There was a "lesser" drow version in the Player's Guide to Faerun that took out the LA's. But you can do as Hoondatha said and "buy" them off. I did this for an Aasimar Cleric of Kossuth and by 6th level, the disparity of their power was mitigated pretty substantially.
As for the LA rules themselves, yea I have to agree they're pretty bad. Probably the only "broken" thing about Drow is their SR, which scales according to Level, which gets pretty decent at high levels. If you remove that element, then I'd rule it LA +1. Take away their SLA's (or mitigate it choose one to use 1/encounter like 4E) and I'd remove the LA entirely.
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2012 : 04:04:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Kyrel
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
As to spell resistance quote:
A creature can voluntarily lower its spell resistance. Doing so is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Once a creature lowers its resistance, it remains down until the creature’s next turn. At the beginning of the creature’s next turn, the creature’s spell resistance automatically returns unless the creature intentionally keeps it down (also a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity).
which is innate ability and does not require a feat.
I'm glad to hear that is the case. However, that makes me wonder why you have a feat that provides this ability? Or is that somehow an upgradede variant of the standard rule? Can't remember the exact wording of the Feat right not...
I believe you are thinking of Spell Penetration (which is a feat), a way to try to bypass or try to defeat spell resistance.
As for the rest, indeed day light surface Drow are disadvantaged. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4441 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2012 : 04:43:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
As for the rest, indeed day light surface Drow are disadvantaged.
Daylight Adaptation fixes this, however. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2012 : 04:49:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
As for the rest, indeed day light surface Drow are disadvantaged.
Daylight Adaptation fixes this, however.
Which is a feat required. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2012 : 05:42:23
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Agreed. And in 3e you're so feat starved (and with an LA +2 already behind the curve) that you don't want to waste one on something like that. Plus, I think there was equipment to mitigate and magical items to negate the difficulty. Much better to spend gold than feats.
And Kentinal, reread the Darkness spell description you posted. The key there is "shadowy illumination." So if you're in the dark, which has a specific meaning, and you cast Darkness, it upgrades it to shadowy illumination, in which "a character can see dimly." Darkness actually does create light. It's stupid, but that's how it's written in 3.5. It's all on pg 164 of the 3.5 PHB. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2012 : 11:54:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
And Kentinal, reread the Darkness spell description you posted. The key there is "shadowy illumination." So if you're in the dark, which has a specific meaning, and you cast Darkness, it upgrades it to shadowy illumination, in which "a character can see dimly." Darkness actually does create light. It's stupid, but that's how it's written in 3.5. It's all on pg 164 of the 3.5 PHB.
*shock* By RAW, you're right. By RAI... well... |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2012 : 13:10:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Kyrel
In case of an NPC or a PC in an underdark campaign I agree with you. However, my question was more related to Drow used as PC's in a more typical type game taking place above ground.
Than its the problem of the player that wants to play a drow cause its cool even when it doesn't fit into the campaign. Otherwise the same could be argued if someone wants to play a Sahuagin in a land based campaign for example.
Another big advantage for drow is their darkvision out to 120 feet which is double the length of a darkvision spell for example. So they can see and attack their enemies while they don't see them |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4441 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2012 : 21:02:56
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quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
quote:
Originally posted by Kyrel
In case of an NPC or a PC in an underdark campaign I agree with you. However, my question was more related to Drow used as PC's in a more typical type game taking place above ground.
Than its the problem of the player that wants to play a drow cause its cool even when it doesn't fit into the campaign. Otherwise the same could be argued if someone wants to play a Sahuagin in a land based campaign for example.
Playing an exotic, unique, rare, or otherwise "non-standard" race shouldn't be the excuse for bad rules. Something that was pushed by D&D (in the early days) as a design method was to create interesting races but then flag them with tons of repercussions as to make them horrible game-choices (mechanics wise). A sort of price for that uniqueness. That, to me, is just poor game design and not very imaginative.
quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
Another big advantage for drow is their darkvision out to 120 feet which is double the length of a darkvision spell for example. So they can see and attack their enemies while they don't see them
It could be better if they could see inside their own Darkness  but as it stands, it's nice to have in a pinch. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2012 : 21:27:37
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I'm really liking Diffan's idea of a +1 LA and only allow the SLA once per encounter.
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
As for the rest, indeed day light surface Drow are disadvantaged.
Daylight Adaptation fixes this, however.
So does a pair of sunglasses. 
IMG, drow have steampunk-esque goggles for surface raids. Like THIS, but the goggles looking more like THIS. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 29 Nov 2012 21:29:09 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4441 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2012 : 00:25:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I'm really liking Diffan's idea of a +1 LA and only allow the SLA once per encounter.
Thanks! I just thought about what makes Drow a non-broken, playable race in 4E and I remember that they can do their whole Lolth-touched abilities (Cloud of Darkness or Darkfire) once per encounter. Though in later products they changed it to choosing one or the other at 1st level. I don't enforce this rule because I don't think it does anything to promote good game design and limits player's choices for no good reason.
Additonally, you could remove the automatic +2 to Int, Cha, and Dex and just add in +2 Dex and +2 to Int OR +2 Cha AND keeping the -2 to Con. This would also reduce their initial power right off the bat. It also allows a specific player to have a choice in which ability score to work with.
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
As for the rest, indeed day light surface Drow are disadvantaged.
Daylight Adaptation fixes this, however.
So does a pair of sunglasses.
IMG, drow have steampunk-esque goggles for surface raids. Like THIS, but the goggles looking more like THIS.
[/quote]
Nice! I like them. I'm thinking that perhaps the Drow might have found some Svirfneblin in their taking of Blingdenstone (sp?) and forced them to fashion some of these cool things using gems found in the underdark. I could also see them weaving specific gems infused with Faerzress into the cloaks and weapons of Drow to postpone any deteriorating effects the World Above might inflict. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2012 : 03:02:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
Agreed. And in 3e you're so feat starved (and with an LA +2 already behind the curve) that you don't want to waste one on something like that. Plus, I think there was equipment to mitigate and magical items to negate the difficulty. Much better to spend gold than feats.
And Kentinal, reread the Darkness spell description you posted. The key there is "shadowy illumination." So if you're in the dark, which has a specific meaning, and you cast Darkness, it upgrades it to shadowy illumination, in which "a character can see dimly." Darkness actually does create light. It's stupid, but that's how it's written in 3.5. It's all on pg 164 of the 3.5 PHB.
Oh I have been thinking about this, the RAW in the spell clearly is a problem that logic should resolve. A lamp in darkness casts light and "shadowy illumination." when used at a place of darkness. If one was going to say "I use a lamp" at high noon to form "shadowy illumination." and the DM clearly permits a minor mundane item to provide cover that defies all reason and logic.
quote:
Lamp, Common
A lamp clearly illuminates a 15-foot radius, provides shadowy illumination out to a 30-foot radius, and burns for 6 hours on a pint of oil. You can carry a lamp in one hand.
Any DM that allow better vision when darkness spell was cast in an area of dark already should give away their DM materials and very likely not very fit to even be a player, IMO. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2012 : 03:40:51
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| I just ignore the newer spell description completely, and make it complete darkness, as per the older rules. Makes more sense anyway. As for the other issues, I have always allowed players two options- the standard +2LA drow, or my "revised" drow, which are daylight-adapted, but have only darkness and fairy-fire (not dancing lights), and have a lower SR. For the standard drow, I stick with the old-school levitate instead of dancing lights, since it's more in line with canon lore. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2012 : 05:31:19
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We never used the LA stuff for races. We did decide to just strip all drow of magic resistance. I never liked how they did darkness in 3E with several different shades of illumination or what not. If you're standing in a globe of darkness, you can't see anything, that's how we do it. Spell-like abilities aren't really that game breaking, as most the time nobody wants to sacrifice their action that round for faerie fire etc, since we don't allow attacks if you use spell abilities. I'd much rather give other players wild abilities or some other option that makes them unique as opposed to penalize one player for playing what they want. Utility spells can be great fun in such a way, though all of 3rd level or lower.
Guess I should note we did transition from 3rd edition back to 2nd. Way easier to run games in my eyes with less tracking of things to worry about. Hate having to stop games to consult books. In 2E all you really need is the saving throws and turn undead charts. I'm probably getting too old to have the will to memorize another entire rule system. ;) |
Edited by - Eilserus on 30 Nov 2012 05:31:55 |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2428 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2012 : 00:35:34
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And a Thayan human gets the same kinds of crap thrown at them without LA at all, so what?
LA is simply about what constitues a challenge and what a curbstomp - since in 3e, XP is mainly about h&s. Not "what would make the Multiverse be fair" (for a change) or make X more attractive for players facing inevitable problems of a character, yes, not fitting into the campaign. And so on. Which is why druids don't have sudden adjustments in city campaigns and Nobles don't have any "consolation prize" in wilderness.
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
or my "revised" drow, which are daylight-adapted, but have only darkness and fairy-fire (not dancing lights), and have a lower SR. For the standard drow, I stick with the old-school levitate instead of dancing lights, since it's more in line with canon lore.
Er... 2e drow had 3 base powers: dancing lights + faerie fire + darkness. And only from 5 level 3 "mature" powers - Levitation + Detect Magic + Know Alignment. All 1/day and subject to some variations.
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People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2012 : 01:30:40
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I think the best way to correct this would be to turn each of the abilities into a feat, and then give a Racial Feat every other level, for EVERY character (or just every PC, if the DM doesn't want to do all that bookkeeping).
So the first three you could take (for free) at levels 2 & 4, and starting at level 6 you could take any that are left (because you have to be at least level 5 to take those last three).
What this means is a DM would have to create or find racial feats for the other PCs as well, which really shouldn't be all that hard. In the case of humans they could substitute regional feats. I don't think it would be all that unbalancing in that most of them would be situational, and would also be limited to once per day. I suppose you could take the same ability/feat multiple times in the case of race-granted powers.
In fact, that would be a good optional system for 5e - make each race get benefits beyond level one (because the way it always sat before, race is nearly pointless after level one). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 03 Dec 2012 01:32:39 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2012 : 22:34:56
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| I am well aware of that, TBeholder. Note I said they were "revised", and my "standard" (meaning full-LA) drow had the levitation (in lieu of the dancing lights). Anything beyond that, as per 3.5 rules, required the requisite feats to take. (ie- Daylight Adaptation, Lolth's Blessing, etc...) |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Rule technical Drow question
