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farinal
Learned Scribe
Turkey
270 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Oct 2012 : 17:10:17
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I have a Lolth priestess character I've been playing for quite some time now. The thing is she is starting to get a little bit bored with Lolth. It seems like the clerics of Lolth are the most hardworking people in the drow society, who can never actually gain anything. Lolth is a hard goddess to satisfy. There has been some occassions which shaked the beliefs of my character and she is starting to think that Lolth actually doesn't give a damn about drows or anything other than just her own amusement and that is causing some problems to my character, who takes herself too serious.
My first idea was to convert to Shar. My character will still be evil and arrogant and will think the males and other races are inferior to drow. But she will be opposed to Lolth, needless spider rituals and too much Chaos just to entertain Lolth, like letting heretics live and cause trouble as long as they are not found or other stuff that is basically wrong according to the Church but can only be a crime if it is caught...etc.
But I don't really know much about Shar and thought perhaps you guys have some better ideas for my character's conversion. And no she will not be an Eilistraeen :D
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2012 : 19:30:33
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Whatever you choose, your priestess probably still "pretends" to be a priestess of Lolth, and practices her new faith in secret. The reason being that Lolth is the only acceptable faith in much of drow society.
Shar is a pretty strong choice. A conversion to her probably involves some sort of tragedy or loss, which could be the loss of her deeply ingrained faith. Viconia from the Baldur's Gate series is a drow cleric of Shar.
Here are a couple other deities to consider:
- Kiaransalee, drow goddess of undeath and revenge: This is probably the most logical choice if you're going to stick with a drow deity. The personality remains the same, but her priorities become undermining and destroying Lolth's church, and she will become considerably more comfortable with undead. She might eventually seek to become undead herself.
- Vhaeraun, drow god of thieves: It's odd to have a female servant of Vhaeraun, but your priestess would have a unique position to work against the church of Lolth (which is one of Vhaeraun's goals). You'd face as much opposition in the organized church as a male priest would in the church of Lolth, but it might be a cool story.
- Gaunadaur, drow god of oozes and corruption: If you want your priestess to be really corrupt and a little gross, consider this deity. He is considered majorly heretical in drow circles.
- Ilbrandul, monster god of the underworld and caverns: This is an unusual choice, but might make sense for the area. As of the Time of Troubles, Ilbrandul is actually dead and being impersonated by Shar, so this might be sort of a transitional deity that would eventually lead your priestess to worship Shar.
Loviatar, human god of torture/suffering: She's a human deity like Shar, but if your character delights in inflicting torment, Loviatar is a natural choice.
Regardless, you should do some research on whatever deity you choose. I recommend the 2e FR Faiths and Avatars or 3e Faiths and Pantheons sourcebooks. Barring those, check out the FR wiki, then ask for clarification here on the boards (as the wiki isn't that accurate).
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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farinal
Learned Scribe
Turkey
270 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2012 : 19:44:57
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Thanks for the response! My setting is currently in Underdales, in a drow refugee camp and the city of Maerimydra is infested with undeads and the priests of Kiaransalee. My character hates the Banshee with all her heart and it would be very out of character for her to join them. Neither the Eilistraee and of course not Vhaerun since she completely believes that males are inferior to females and greatly dislikes the Masked Lord. Ghaunadaur is also very unlikely, I think and I already had a male priest of Ghaunadaur and don't want to deal with "him" again and seems a bit weird for her to convert to Ghaunadaur anyway.
Ilbrandul is an interesting idea I haven't thought before and I really haven't thought about Loviatar either. I'll do more research on them. But Shar is probably the Goddess I'll go to and about the hidden worship part, I am actually thinking about leaving the place to move to a more "secular" trade city or perhaps to Surface. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2012 : 19:47:15
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In the "Name the Warlock Knights of Vaasa" project over at WotC, I had a female drow 'inquisitor' who worshiped Loviatar, and was called a 'betrayer priestess of Lolth' (she was from Dambrath). We have at least two canon examples of Lolthite priestesses going to other deities, and yet still receiving favor from Lolth (one was Liriel Baenre, the other was in the WotSQ series).
Either Lolth doesn't pay much attention, or this is one of those 'chaos' things she is famous for. Her faithful, however, pay attention to EVERYTHING.
So yeah, I am agreeing with Erik. 
I'm of an opinion that in the case of most deities, they really don't care how faithful their worshipers are, so long as they get paid lip service. I can't think of countless examples of 'bad' (as in, not really following the tenets of their faith) priests. Also, Lolth allowed Kiaransalee to live alongside her in the Demonweb pits - I have to wonder how her priestesses managed to explain that one to their followers. If she was truly a "that shalt not put any god before me" type of deity, then how was Kiaransalle allow to survive for so long, let alone have her own following amongst the drow?
I think the priesthood is a lot less tolerant then the deity (which is probably true in most cases). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 26 Oct 2012 22:21:21 |
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farinal
Learned Scribe
Turkey
270 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2012 : 19:52:36
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| Absolutely what I'm tring to say Markustay. And those things are bothering my priestess now since she lived her life very strictly following the "code" and tried to hunt heretics and so on but now she thinks her Goddess even doesn't care or give a damn about her or anything she has ever ddone. That's why she is in search of something that will actually care about her. She is too arrogant as you can see and wants some attention :D |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36910 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2012 : 21:15:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
In the "Name the Warlock Knights of Vaasa" project over at WotC, I had a female drow 'inquisitor' who worshiped Loviatar, and was called a 'betrayer priestess of Lolth' (she was from Dambrath). We have at least two canon examples of Lolthite priestesses going to other deities, and yet still receiving favor from Lolth (one was Liriel Baenre, the other was in the WotSQ series).
In the Liriel books, there was also Shakti Hunrin, who was a traitor-priestess. She was a priestess of Lolth who converted to Vhaeraun, but her loyalty to him was masked, so she still received spells from Lolth.
I've suggested something like this as a possible way for the secret of creating driders to spread beyond Lolth's priesthood, too. 
Otherwise, I agree with some of the prior suggestions. I really hate the amount of attention Shar receives, to the point that it's spilled over into a dislike of the deity -- but she is a logical choice, and if I was looking outside the drow pantheon, she'd be one of my first choices for a drow priestess. Loviatar would be the second choice, in part due to the fact we already have drow following her. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2012 : 22:22:54
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Logical choice: Cyric. A race of backstabbers and killers deserve a God of Murder.
Ideal: Bane. You'd want a very powerful deity that could help you both in the Underdark and on the surface world. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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farinal
Learned Scribe
Turkey
270 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2012 : 22:52:49
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| Interesting choices really. Bane could actually be useful since she is already under the Shadowdale and Shadowdale is under Zhent invasion in our game. |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2012 : 23:00:06
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I'd suggest Asmodeus. Drow have nothing on devils when it comes to schemes, plots, and backstabbing. Plus, Asmodeus is a lot less fickle. Rank and status actually are based on merit in his church.
Now that the obvious is out of the way, I'd also suggest Loviatar. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2012 : 23:07:10
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You could pick a powerful demon or demon lord too. The old 2E Drow of the Underdark makes mention of drow dark cults that worship beings from the Outer Planes and have battled followers of Lolth some 16,000 years ago and several times since. Pathfinder has a bunch of demon lords detailed out too. If you wanted to custom design what kind of evil deity your character follows you could make a demon lord of your own and then tailor that to your tastes.
I always though Bhaal the Lord of Murder should have a presence among the drow and would maybe operate as an aspect under a different name. |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2012 : 23:50:14
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Tempus CN/unaligned
he has evil followers.... wl face it, hes a war god, and when you follow war, its never borring.
Bane, evil
strength
loviatar
Zehir
that evil drawf of greed
if your drow is cold hearted
auril..... |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
Edited by - sfdragon on 26 Oct 2012 23:50:53 |
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farinal
Learned Scribe
Turkey
270 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2012 : 04:33:39
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| Are there any heresies for Lolthites? And where can I get more information on the "Darkmoon Heresy" of Shar and Selune other than Power of Faerun's one paragraph? |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2012 : 05:43:36
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| I'm not sure there's been anything specifically detailed. Many cities worship via the Way of Lolth which is basically a set of tenets they follow. Menzoberranzan runs under such a guideline. Guallidurth under Calimsham doesn't work that way and every noble house or faction worships in whatever way they think best, which leads to lots of fighting over who's doing it right and wrong. The Lady Penitent tricked an assassin from that city into worshipping her as some sort of aspect or avatar of Lolth for a time if I recall correctly. |
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Aldrick
Senior Scribe
909 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2012 : 06:41:49
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As a general rule, I've always used Shar as a good fallback goddess for evil drow priestesses who were turning away from Lolth. In my Realms Shar has been - for a very long time - attempting to undermine Lolth's influence and take the Drow for herself. Especially after the Time of Troubles.
My feeling is that a drow priestess, raised in a highly sexist culture, isn't going to turn to a deity that is portrayed as a male. She may worship the deity under a different identity, but it would be jarring for her to hold anti-male views and yet in the same breath praise a male deity. Thus, Shar was always a good solid logical choice.
In my home Realms, though, I've tossed Shar aside for the Masked Lady. Which I think - were you playing in my game - would have been perfect for your character. She's basically Lolth without all the negative things that Lolth brings to drow society. They strongly believe that Lolth is holding them back, that the Underdark was meant to be a place where they were to be made strong, but their ultimate purpose is to return to the surface to conquer and rule. (And of course kill, torture, and enslave surface elves.) To be blunt, the Masked Lady is basically Vhaeraun with a vagina.
Dogma: "The servants of the Masked Lady must cast off the tyranny of the Spider Queen and forcibly reclaim their birthright and rightful place in the Night Above. Those who are loyal to the Spider Queen must be destroyed, and the warring practices of twisted Lolth done away with, so that the drow are welded into a united people, not a squabbling gaggle of rival Houses, clans, and aims. The Masked Lady will lead the Drow in the Ascension where they will reign supreme over the other, lesser races."
You could always create a heretical priestess that took Vhaeruan as her deity, but believed that he was a she... or that the worshipers of Eilistraee and Vhaeruan have twisted those deities and that your priestess knows the "truth". (In the same way that the Dark Moon Heresy brings together the worship of Shar and Selune, the Masked Lady heresy brings together the worship of Vhaeraun and Eilistraee... ending up what I outlined above.)
Another good suggestion in this thread is to worship a powerful (female) demon instead. You could even create a heretical cult to Lolth herself, which would be secretly powered (even unknowingly by your priestess!) by said Demon attempting to usurp Lolth.
Those are the routes I'd personally consider. I always tend to favor heresies simply because it allows you to craft and twist a faith toward the goals and themes that your character is striving toward. |
Edited by - Aldrick on 27 Oct 2012 06:45:01 |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2012 : 08:02:33
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| The Masked Lady, although we only saw her briefly, was definitely interesting. I like the melding of the dogma above. I was never a big fan of Eilistraee, but melding the two siblings does have possibilities. :) |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2012 : 14:22:20
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Too bad shes dead I would have liked to see more of the Masked Lady as well. Of the surviving deities i would think Shar or Cyric would make a good choice for the drow.
Shar already has a presence in the underdark after consuming Ibrandul . |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2012 : 18:40:00
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Shar, Mask and Cyric are perfect evil dieties for drow. Shar is the most logical choice for an ex-matron because Shars gender makes it an easier choice for a drow priestess.
Some more neutral choices for a patron could be fun though. Fenmarel 'the lone wolf' Mestarine might take a repentant drow who feels he must atone by self exile. Fenmarel had an affair with Lolth once so he understands drow abit better. Waukeen could be fun, if she likes to steer the flow of coin; or Sharess if shes kinky alot.
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My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2012 : 20:29:08
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| Other demon lords are more likely than members of the Faerūnian pantheon. |
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Tarlyn
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2012 : 21:22:12
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The Demon Lords tend to be just as fickle as Lolth, if you are looking for something more orderly, you could go with Glasya, Asmodeus's Daughter or Fierna, Lord of the Fourth.
Mask and Loviatar both seem like solid options as well. |
Tarlyn Embersun |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2012 : 23:42:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil
Too bad shes dead I would have liked to see more of the Masked Lady as well. Of the surviving deities i would think Shar or Cyric would make a good choice for the drow.
Shar already has a presence in the underdark after consuming Ibrandul.
Shar is overrated. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2012 : 08:59:30
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| Agree about the demon princes, Graz'zt, Nocticula, Aldinach, Pale Night, Rhyxali ... |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2012 : 11:42:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil
Too bad shes dead I would have liked to see more of the Masked Lady as well. Of the surviving deities i would think Shar or Cyric would make a good choice for the drow.
Shar already has a presence in the underdark after consuming Ibrandul.
Shar is overrated.
Frankly I gotta agree with you on that one. I keep hoping that someone will take her down a peg but sadly she seems to be amassing power instead. |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2012 : 11:59:51
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| Shar is one of the coolest concepts of all evil gods in D&D, the problem is that her followers like the Shades are failures. |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2012 : 13:24:24
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We will have to agree to disagree on that as I much prefer the Shades to their patron goddess.
Anyway most Shades are not die hard followers of Shar, they simply worship her for the power she grants them. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2012 : 14:47:56
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Full agreement, Thauranil. Even Telamont himself once defied Shar's wishes. His empire come first. Shar is just a means to an end. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2482 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2012 : 17:50:59
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Also, didn't Shar already poach on the drow?
What with Gorothir's Girdle popping up in Ched Nasad. Now that Vhaerunites ruined the place, it may reappear anywhere either from refugees or Chaulssin, and soon enough make the wearer a Sharran priestess driven to gather following. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2012 : 08:00:09
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Beshaba doesn't seem like she gets enough attention for an Intermediate deity. I think her faith would be something interesting to explore.
Tiamat also seems like a good choice. A goddess of conquest who cast down a pantheon seems like she would appeal to a drow turning away from Lolth.
Talona. I wouldn't want to roleplay a cleric of a gross disease goddess 3:
Shar is getting way over done, and it seems like her nature is being warped. A nihilistic deity who wants to end existence and is bitter that life exists is suddenly the main deity of an Empire = makes no sense at all. She should want to destroy and conquer, not build and rule.
I don't think there is any reason why she couldn't worship Vhaeraun... there are a lot of examples of priestesses of Vhaeraun. I never liked the idea that he only accepted male priests, although it was stated canonically other canon contradicts it. I think in Lost Empires of Faerun there is a priestess of Vhaeraun. Ghaunadaur definitely has priestesses since he doesn't care about race or sex...
If we're assuming the drow deities weren't all massacred Kiaransalee is very interesting, too. You could retcon Zinzerena into not having been slain and subsumed by Lolth, or the character might not know Zinzerena is a face of Lolth. |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2482 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2012 : 11:53:09
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quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
Beshaba doesn't seem like she gets enough attention for an Intermediate deity. I think her faith would be something interesting to explore.
As the goddess of "unfortunate accidents", would be a fun choice for the drow, oh yes.
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
Talona. I wouldn't want to roleplay a cleric of a gross disease goddess 3:
And poison, which makes her somewhat closer for those who don't want to go all the way to Kiaransalee and aren't too picky about the "stylish" side. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Lunarbeams
Acolyte
43 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2012 : 20:43:51
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| I would gone to Shar since she my favorite for not well adjusted and goody to shoes adventurors. I would love to create a Chosen Of Shar as Nightsinger. |
"Software are easy to solve because they do not have egos. " |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2012 : 21:26:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Lunarbeams
I would gone to Shar since she my favorite for not well adjusted and goody to shoes adventurors. I would love to create a Chosen Of Shar as Nightsinger.
It sounds too bardic. How about Nightbringer? Nightseer would have been perfect, but Rivalen already claimed that title, and he's no Chosen, albeit a favored priest. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Lunarbeams
Acolyte
43 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2012 : 22:14:09
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| I am game to corrupting char but I haven't decided on the race much less the class. |
"Software are easy to solve because they do not have egos. " |
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Alternate deities for drow.
