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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Oct 2012 : 23:18:34
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I was trying to define the term "RSE" for a reader unfamiliar with it recently, and realized that my definition isn't necessarily the same as the way others think of it. What I think qualifies as a RSE may be bigger or smaller than what someone else thinks.
So let me ask you, what do YOU think of as a RSE?
There are some events I think we can all consider RSEs. The Time of Troubles, for instance, is a RSE. Gods fall to earth, gods die, mortals ascend to become gods. Dead/wild magic appears. All the assassins go away. Nations fall and rise.
The Year of Rogue Dragons is a RSE: dragons go wild, attack people all over the Realms, kill a few important NPCs in the setting, leave much of Faerun in ruin.
But other events aren't so clear. Are the Ed Greenwood Presents Waterdeep novels RSEs? What about the Harpers novels--Elfshadow, say, or Spellfire and its sequels?
Thoughts to consider:
1) How big an event are we talking about? Is the impact limited to a single town, a single country, or all of Faerun?
2) Does an event that is really big but doesn't change the status quo (i.e. puts all the toys back, intact, when it's done playing with them) still count as a RSE? Does a RSE have to create new lore or redefine how a location/theme/etc works in the Realms?
3) How significant are the NPCs involved? If Elminster's in it, is it automatically a RSE? What if those NPCs aren't functionally changed?
4) How relevant is the term "RSE"? As I understand it, it's really a marketing term to hype up a story. The actual impact of the story doesn't matter as much as the sense that it's really dramatic and really significant.
5) Where do you draw the line between what is and is not a RSE?
Once you give a definition, pick 5 Realms novels and tell us whether you consider them RSEs or not. Spoilers possible, but try to be very vague about it for those who haven't read them. Here's an example:
Last Mythal Trilogy: RSE? Yes. A major evil organization is shattered, a huge war is fought between multiple forces, and a kingdom is established. This represents the end of the Elven Retreat, which has gone on for centuries.
Shadowbane: RSE? No. Action is quarantined to the city of Luskan, with minor implications for nearby lands. Lots of NPCs die and lots of power structures are upturned, but all of them were invented for that book. Ultimate status quo does not contradict what's printed in any sourcebook.
Cheers
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Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4255 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2012 : 00:09:21
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I would love to take part in this discussion...but I've not read many novels in the past two years because of all the chaos...HOWEVER:
An RSE to me is a singular something that has a lasting dramatic consequence known to nearly everyone. The Time of Troubles was an RSE, the Spellplague was an RSE...but the Rage of Dragons wasn't to me (even though it fits into my definition mostly).
The Rage of Dragons is something that is "normal" in the Forgotten Realms...and so because of that, it is something that folks actually expect...even if they don't want to accept it. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4702 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2012 : 00:10:49
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Well for anyone that did not play Drow, either as PCsw or NPCs, silence of Lolth did not bother the Realms at all.
I do not think end of Elven Retreat really was Realm shaking either. Just might be a few more elves about, but always were a few elves about. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
Edited by - Kentinal on 13 Oct 2012 00:12:30 |
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Sightless
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2012 : 00:18:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
I would love to take part in this discussion...but I've not read many novels in the past two years because of all the chaos...HOWEVER:
An RSE to me is a singular something that has a lasting dramatic consequence known to nearly everyone. The Time of Troubles was an RSE, the Spellplague was an RSE...but the Rage of Dragons wasn't to me (even though it fits into my definition mostly).
The Rage of Dragons is something that is "normal" in the Forgotten Realms...and so because of that, it is something that folks actually expect...even if they don't want to accept it.
While I'd say that the lore indicates that flights of dragons do do what happened at certain times of the year. The draconomicon makes it sound that's more of an orderly affair. A group of dragons fly from a to x and do what dragons do. If samon were able to have the destructive power of a hurican, sort of thing. So it's realms shaking, but it's one of those realms sahking that happens every know and again. It's going to impact the region, commerrce and so on will be altered, at least for a time as a consequence. |
We choose to live a lie, when we see with, & not through the eye.
Every decision, no matter the evidence, is a leap of faith; if it were not, then it wouldn't be a choice at all. |
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Gustaveren
Learned Scribe
Denmark
197 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2012 : 01:03:21
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Well, it is a RSE if it invalidates existing lore via a method there has no existing lore foundation
That is, the reappearance of something from stasis there suddenly change a large geopgraphical area or the political power balance is annoying unless there is a good amount of existing lore in numerous products describing what is in stasis, why it is in stasis and so forth
Nevertheless, I am very tired of seeing the same tricks like (something appear from stasis, or escapes from banishment or arcane prison) |
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Gustaveren
Learned Scribe
Denmark
197 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2012 : 01:06:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
I would love to take part in this discussion...but I've not read many novels in the past two years because of all the chaos...HOWEVER:
This is actually a good description of a RSE
Sufficient big change that you loose the interest in reading the novels.
I have not yet managed to convince myself to read the 4e novels even though I have actually brought many of them to avoid holes in my collections, that is, i stopped buying them some months ago since i could not remember what 4e novels i had already brought. |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2012 : 01:11:40
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Go to TV Tropes, look up Crisis Crossover and Red Skies Crossover.
To me, a "realms shattering event" is a setting specific name for those two tropes. It's a storyline that crosses through several titles, will usually have a main series devoted to it, and serves the primary purpose of justifying the changes to the status quo. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4255 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2012 : 01:15:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Gustaveren
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
I would love to take part in this discussion...but I've not read many novels in the past two years because of all the chaos...HOWEVER:
This is actually a good description of a RSE
Sufficient big change that you loose the interest in reading the novels.
I have not yet managed to convince myself to read the 4e novels even though I have actually brought many of them to avoid holes in my collections, that is, i stopped buying them some months ago since i could not remember what 4e novels i had already brought.
Perhaps I should have clarified: my own personal life chaos. Taking in four foster children, withdrawing from school to do so, moving from Montana to Virginia in the midst of it all...that sort of chaos; not speaking of the FR actually.  |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2012 : 01:20:55
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It a dramatic event that causes a significant, long-lasting change on a realm or realms, experienced by everyone in the affected place. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2012 : 02:29:15
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For me nuking Neverwinter was not a RSE.
It was changed, but it was still there.
Most of what Elminster does is decidedly non-RSE, but alas it happens off screen.
The plant of magical items and such, nurturing magic. But we all hear about when he makes big bada booms |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2012 : 06:14:17
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An event that changes things for many folk throughout most of Faerūn (and possibly beyond).
On the other hand, some RSEs are real RSEs, and do cause those major changes, while other RSEs are of the "everything was all better the next day variety" (WotSQ, Threat from the Sea, rage of Dragons, ect). Nothing Drizzt (or Cadderly, or any other RAS character) does is an RSE. A moon being pulled out of the sky by an uber-munchkin should be an RSE... but wasn't (and that was one of my favorite series, even with that).
So I don't know which is worse - an RSE that changes everything and fills the world with nerd angst, or a 'pretend RSE' that only makes us think it is and does absolutely nothing to the setting (You know.. like when Zhentil Keep comes back in the very next product...)
I think the Arrival of the Shades was an RSE - that wreaked a lot of havoc continent-wide. It was weird how little impact they later had on 3e (and then into the century of change and 4e they acted up again... strange.. They only behaved themselves throughout the edition that introduced them). They came in in a huge way, and then just sorta chilled for 13 years.
And lastly, we have the non-RSE that behaves like an RSE (the opposite of the 'fake RSEs' mentioned above). The only one of those that comes to mind is the Windwaker trilogy - it explained why drow can do 'drow stuff' on the surface now (which was a wonderful explanation, that no-one ever bothered referencing after that series).
So that was a non-RSE, that behaved like an RSE, and then was completely ignored thereafter like a pretend RSE (which actually works in that one exceptional case - how many folks - other then Drow - knew something was different?) And laughingly I am in the middle of reading Realms of the Dead at this moment and I thought there was a continuity glitch (the drow items were destroyed in sunlight), but I see they gave that story an early (1204 DR) date. Clever... and an example of a 4e-era book with a story set 'in the past', so there is a nice precedent moving into 5e.
Sometimes the best stories can be told in the past. 
... without an RSE...  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 13 Oct 2012 18:27:50 |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2012 : 06:48:00
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Thanks for this, Erik! Now that I know what it means, here are a few examples of what I think counted as an RSE:
The Avatar series, for obvious reasons
Return of the Archwizards: return of the Netherese Empire (which I'm actually curttently reading)
Lady Penitent: the transformation of the drow, though the results of this have yet to be seen
Empyrean Odyssey: death of Tyr and Mystra
Last Mythal: this might be debateble as an RSE, but it was the restoration of Myth Drannor, a major elven city, so it could be considered one to some extent.
Twilight Wars: death of Mask (can't wait for Godborn!)
Icewind Dale trilogy: I think it was this one in which Mithral Hall was reclaimed...
Abolthic Soverignty: this trilogy actually creeped me out a bit, but since the aboleths came along...yesh, that was pretty big
Haunted Lands: ah, Szass Tam...we are all zombies now...
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Sweet water and light laughter |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2012 : 06:53:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I think the Arrival of the Shades was an RSE - that wreaked a lot of havoc continent-wide. It was weird how little impact they later had on 3e (and then into the century of change and 4e they acted up again... strange.. they only behaved themselves throughout the edition that introduced them). They came in in a huge way, and then just sorta chilled for 13 years.
Just because people hardly saw their activities does not mean they were just chilling out. They prefer to work in shadows, and now try to avoid confrontation with Faerun's powerful. It probably took them years to plan on how to conquer Sembia with as minimal loss as possible.
They're now trying to recover as many fallen Netherese enclaves they could find, to repopulate Anauroch and strenghten their own army, before they could venture conquering more lands. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2012 : 08:05:05
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Hmm. If we're all eager to define RSEs as really rare (i.e. some feel Rogue Dragons doesn't even count), whence the "stop all the RSEs!" attitude?
How about folks give me a list of novels they DO consider RSEs, similar to C'sD, and say why?
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3821 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2012 : 09:40:46
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Anything that brings major changes to the Realms, even confined to a particular region/race/organization/pantheon, is a RSE IMO. That said, the reason so many of them turn people away is that they mostly lead to the removal from canon of characters (mortals and divine alike), places or elements that are held dear (or their change into something unrecognizable), motivated by no apparent reason. Some RSEs can be interesting (provided that the damage they cause is confined within the story itself, destroying elements created to tell that story), or even good when adding stuff.
Any novel which removed something flavorful and characteristic is a bad kind of RSE (stories which removed organizations, deities or relevant NPCs, or drastically altered something -the Haunted Lands-), even if the story is well written (yes, even good books can bring damage to the setting).
Novels which bring new elements and plot hooks to the Realms are good kind of RSEs, unless they sacrifice some other interesting element to do so (examples of additive RSEs are the 'Return of the Archwizards' -even tho it destroyed Tilverton-, or 'Starlights and Shadows' -altering drowcraft and allowing dark elves to use magic on surface is a heavy change, so I'd say a RSE-) |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Apex
Learned Scribe
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2012 : 12:07:58
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1) How big an event are we talking about? Is the impact limited to a single town, a single country, or all of Faerun?
I would say an RSE has to impact at least a good part of the continent to be an RSE or dramatically change an important locale (ie if Waterdeep was destroyed).
2) Does an event that is really big but doesn't change the status quo (i.e. puts all the toys back, intact, when it's done playing with them) still count as a RSE? Does a RSE have to create new lore or redefine how a location/theme/etc works in the Realms?
I would say that an RSE has to change something in a significant way to meet the definition. Something must be different from the beginning of the event. In other words, I don't really classify the Horde invasion as an RSE, since from a Realms perspective almost nothing changed, while the discovery of Maztica is somewhere in the middle, as it could have significantly changed the Realms had its impact been further detailed instead of almost completely ignored.
3) How significant are the NPCs involved? If Elminster's in it, is it automatically a RSE? What if those NPCs aren't functionally changed?
I don't think it matters which NPC's are involved. Elminster could be involved in things that aren't even close to RSE's, while some no name NPC could be involved in a significant one. For instance (using FRE1), Cyric was only 3rd level at the beginning of the Avatar Trilogy and yet he became a god.
4) How relevant is the term "RSE"? As I understand it, it's really a marketing term to hype up a story. The actual impact of the story doesn't matter as much as the sense that it's really dramatic and really significant.
The term does get overused, but there have been several significant RSE's in the Realms (Avatar trilogy, return of the shade, spellplague, discovery of Maztica (well it should have been)).
5) Where do you draw the line between what is and is not a RSE?
I draw the line at things that make significant enough changes to the Realms that they impact past products/lore in a way that makes ignoring them very difficult and the bigger the change the worse the RSE (ie Spellplague/timejump tops the list, followed by the shades, then avatar, then maztica)
Once you give a definition, pick 5 Realms novels and tell us whether you consider them RSEs or not. Spoilers possible, but try to be very vague about it for those who haven't read them. Here's an example:
1. Moonshae Trilogy - Not an RSE. Although it definitely impacted the Moonshaes, the "damage" to the rest of the Realms was nonexistent and even the changes to the Moonshaes were easily ignored if you wanted to use FR2 as a primary reference.
2. Maztica Trilogy - RSE. Not only would the discovery of an entire new continent (and all the new goods and adventuring opportunities) majorly impact ALL of the Realms (much like the discovery of America changed Europe forever), but the trilogy itself was an RSE on Maztica with impacts from the Gods and major destruction/changes. Hoever, this ended up being a very minor RSE because the "results" of the Maztica discovery were ignored in almost all future products/lore.
3. Avatar Trilogy - RSE. The gods walking the world and impacting most of the continent, plus the death/change of several gods definitely was an RSE. However, I don't rate this as huge because the changes were extremely easy to ignore in most of the products that followed (change Cyric to Bane and effectively you are done). Although this became harder as time passed from the event.
4. Spellplague/4th Ed timejump - RSE. This is the mother of all RSE's. The map is dramatically changed. Countries are destroyed. Gods change again. The theme of the Realms itself is changed (ie points of light). To me this was the end of my monetary involvement in the Realms. Simply put, the changes were too great to overlook and to me it became some other world and not the Realms I grew up loving (beginning with Darkwalker in 1988). |
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Gustaveren
Learned Scribe
Denmark
197 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2012 : 14:12:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Hmm. If we're all eager to define RSEs as really rare (i.e. some feel Rogue Dragons doesn't even count), whence the "stop all the RSEs!" attitude?
How about folks give me a list of novels they DO consider RSEs, similar to C'sD, and say why?
Cheers
The RSE's i considered positive managed to fulfill at least one of the following points
1) Increase the lore complexity of the setting
2) Seemed to be a natural evolution based upon existing lore
Nevertheless, I am not fond of RSE's there invalidate existing lore, but the only one there is really a problem for me is spellplague + timejump. Anything occuring during or after that is not the realms in my mind.
(with the exception of a terrible nightmare vision of what could happen to the realms unless the players do heroic actions)
I have more and less concluded, that I have enough FR material to sustain my roleplaying for the rest of my life.
I kind of doubt I will buy the novels for the 5e FR since I have not managed to convince myself to read the 4e novels |
Edited by - Gustaveren on 13 Oct 2012 14:16:02 |
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Lord Bane
Senior Scribe
Germany
479 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2012 : 15:32:40
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1) How big an event are we talking about? Is the impact limited to a single town, a single country, or all of Faerun?
An effecting that has impact to the entirety of Faerun or large areas of the continent.
2) Does an event that is really big but doesn't change the status quo (i.e. puts all the toys back, intact, when it's done playing with them) still count as a RSE? Does a RSE have to create new lore or redefine how a location/theme/etc works in the Realms?
It does not need to topple things. The Event in it“s self is lore as it happened and therefore changes the course of lore due to it“s mere existance. Even if the effects of the events are immediatly reverted by it, it has left a mark on realms history.
3) How significant are the NPCs involved? If Elminster's in it, is it automatically a RSE? What if those NPCs aren't functionally changed?
Elminster in it is not equal an RSE, only because he is the chosen of a deity of magic does not make him automaticly a RSE factor, same goes for other prominant NPCs. NPCs are part of the story but never THE story unless it is centered around them and it stands and falls with the character it is based on.
4) How relevant is the term "RSE"? As I understand it, it's really a marketing term to hype up a story. The actual impact of the story doesn't matter as much as the sense that it's really dramatic and really significant.
See my first answer. It isn“t an RSE because Elminster meddles somewhere in the realms again or a drow helps reclaiming a dwarven hold. It does not need to be dramatic, it can be described as unemotional events and still have a major impact.
5) Where do you draw the line between what is and is not a RSE?
See my answers to 1) and 4).
I consider the following 5 RSE:
Avatar Series - Gods walk Faerun
Year of the Rogue Dragons Series - Dragons go wild all over Faerun
Return of the Archwizards Series - A former powerfull nation returns with effect for the realms
Threat from the Sea Series - Coasts are under attack
Haunted Lands Series - a powerful nation becomes a more prominant threat for the realms
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The driving force in the multiverse is evil, for it forces good to act. |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2012 : 17:21:38
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The only really bad RSE's I can think of were the whole drow deities dying thing, Thay being turned into a wasteland, and a bunch of 4E Spellplague stuff like gods going bye-bye and the map being redrawn. I think Shade is too powerful, if they were capable of wiping out the Zhentarim, they most certainly wouldn't have stopped there. I don't mind cities being leveled here and there, because they can be rebuilt and it can make for good adventures. The Time of Troubles never really bothered me, because it came across as mostly a backstory and things seemed to be business as usual once they disappeared to the planes again. The Rage of Dragons was cool, but it was used too many times I think. Individual dragon attacks against cities occasionally would be just as cool, and I'm sure we'll see such things as we had tons of dragon eggs deposited across the world.
RSE's can be good. The reconquering of Mithril Hall, the Knights of Bane taking Mintar etc, if we consider them RSE. Things should change from time to time, just not events that lead to sweeping changes from Thay all the way to the Sword Coast. Micro changes can be good, macro have universally almost all been bad. The key here is that changes shouldn't be something that turns an area we know into something that we can't recognize from before. Perfect example here is Thay, Szass Tam could have come to rule that country, but not at the expense of everything we know. He easily could have led the Zulkirs and the country as normal without turning it into a zombie apocalypse.
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Marc
Senior Scribe
662 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2012 : 18:14:26
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Evermeet - not a RSE
Last Mythal - RSE cause one of the most important adventuring sites changed
Return of the Archwizards - no, Tilverton, Evereska, Myth Drannor changes are about right
Twilight War - doesn't have to be, Sembia could continue like before only with secret masters
Erevis Cale, Waterdeep, Darkvision, Ghostwalker, House of Serpent's, Finder's - no
Blackstaff - no
Year of Dragons - lots of dragons died, not really a RSE
Haunted Lands - yes, the most harmful
Lolth's Silence, Watercourse - no
Avatars - yes, mostly cause of Ao's appearance |
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Lord Bane
Senior Scribe
Germany
479 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2012 : 18:15:13
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I have to disagree on the term that the Shade wiped out the Zhentarim.
They didn“t wipe them out and i despise the developers move to make them cut the ties between the Church of Bane and the Black Network for no reason other than making the shades the new "evil ones" of the realms, they are childs play in comparison to a banite run Zhentarim. I still expect them to do justice to Banes dogma and deal the shades a blow that they will never recover from. |
The driving force in the multiverse is evil, for it forces good to act. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2012 : 18:36:53
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I forgot the 4th type - the demi-RSE, or "Region-Shaking Event".
The Thay trilogy counts for that, as does the Empires trilogy... maybe.
So we have -
1) Real RSE (greatly dislike)
2) Pretend RSE (dislike on the surface, but the feeling passes quickly)
3) Psuedo-RSE (not counted as an RSE, but could be considered one because of long-range effects)
4) Demi-RSE (localized RSE - makes major changes to a relatively small area)
So the only one that bothers me 100% of the Real ones in the first category - the Spellplague and the ToT. I greatly disliked the Elf one where they retake Myth Drannor (and I haven't even read it), but thats another that should be a category 4 and is more of a matter of personal taste then a true RSE.
I guess the best way to boil it down is that RSE's that are done specifically because of edition changes are the worst of a bad bunch. No matter how well done they are, everyone is going to know the true reasons behind them. The Spellplague will never be accepted as anything other then a 'corporate fudging' because of that (just like the ToT before it). Those kinds of RSE's draw the nerd angst like lightening rods. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Gustaveren
Learned Scribe
Denmark
197 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2012 : 19:33:58
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I do not mind the time of troubles, it added to the lore and the changes to the world was minor, but the spellplague + timeplague was so bad that I do not want to use or read anything happening during or after the spellplague / timejump
It does not matter what authors they are going to use, the quality of realmslore created after the timejump / spellplague
It is not going to be the realms for me and I will not invest money or time into it
I brought all those 1e,2e, 3e and 3.5e FR sourcebooks and novels since I liked the realms and they worked for me.
There is a saying, "do not fix it if it is not broken"
well, no matter what they do after the timejump / spellplague, in my mind will it be an inferior product to my existing realms and I have decided to keep my realms intact even though it means, I will not have the benefit of receiving new sourcebooks. |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2012 : 20:06:48
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List of series I consider Realms-Shaking Events(keeping in mind the only 4e-Era novels I have read are the Shadowbane series):
-Avatar Series (1989)
-Threat from the Sea (2000)
-Return of the Archwizards (2002)
-Year of the Rogue Dragons (2004)
-Last Mythal (2006)
-Spellplague (2008, though not a series)
List of books I consider Historical Realms-Shaking Events:
-Netheril Trilogy
-Evermeet
List of series I consider Region-Shaking Events (thanks to Markustay for the term):
-Ervis Cale Trilogy
-Twilight War
-Empires (borderline Realms-Shaking)
-Scions of Arrabar (though I am in the middle of it, it seems pretty region-shaking)
-Cormyr Saga
-Baldur's Gate Series
-Maztica Trilogy
-Moonshae Trilogy
-Druidhome Trilogy
-Shandril's Saga (borderline Region-shaking)
-Shadowbane (borderline Region-shaking)
-Elaine's Novels (borderline Region-shaking)
-Bob's Novels (borderline Region-shaking, though I haven't read the Neverwinter saga)
I consider everything else pretty small scale.
Other than what is listed above, I have not read anything published post-2007. Also, I have not read the following series:
-Double Diamond Triangle Saga
-Empyrean Odyssey
-Finder's Stone Trilogy
-Haunted Lands
-House of Serpents
-Knights of Myth Drannor
-Lady Penitent
-Lost Gods
-Nobles
-Pools
-Twilight Giants
-War of the Spider Queen
EDIT: Fixed typo and changed it to "Historical Realms-Shaking Events" |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Edited by - Hawkins on 15 Oct 2012 01:54:26 |
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Thrasymachus
Learned Scribe
195 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2012 : 20:18:22
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RSE-Realms Shaking Event: a marketing device in which the Forgotten Realms is subjected to a implausible story that attempts, but falls short of, justification for an entire revamp of the Dungeon & Dragons rules necessitating the purchase of multiple Rulebooks through forced obsolescence. In an RSE the familiar is often explained away, while new ill conceived...stuff is introduced like a pencil in your eye.
See also
Ham Handed Marketing Strategy
Shooting Oneself in the Foot.
Scrappy-Doo
Time of Troubles was a RSE.
Spell Plague was an RSE
The Year of Rogue Dragons was not.
P.S. Because I suspect they are already mounting up... It's IMHO dang it.
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Former Forgotten Realms brand manager Jim Butler: "Everything that bears the Forgotten Realms logo is considered canon". |
Edited by - Thrasymachus on 13 Oct 2012 20:25:22 |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2012 : 02:07:50
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I was thinking about this earlier, and actually, Evermeet could be considered and RSE, but it expands such a broad length of time, and some pretty big stuff happens. I mean, the creation of Evermeet itself was a kind of RSE, but it was a historic one.
And personally, Markustay, the retaking of Myth Drannor was awesome, and I'm so happy it happened. It would be ridiculous if they went and nuked it again, IMO. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 15:19:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
So let me ask you, what do YOU think of as a RSE?
RSE can mean "Realms Shattering Event" or it can mean "Realms Shaking Event." It's a loose term for most people, which means you're unlikely to find a single answer.
The events of 4E were definitely something that shattered the Realms. The overall tone and feel of the setting were radically changed.
As for something "shaking" instead of shattering, the Erevis Cale / Mask stories by Kemp would fall in this category. Big, epic event, but it didn't alter and change major core themes.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 23:11:27
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quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
I was thinking about this earlier, and actually, Evermeet could be considered and RSE, but it expands such a broad length of time, and some pretty big stuff happens. I mean, the creation of Evermeet itself was a kind of RSE, but it was a historic one.
And personally, Markustay, the retaking of Myth Drannor was awesome, and I'm so happy it happened. It would be ridiculous if they went and nuked it again, IMO.
FR was bought by TSR to be a game setting.
It became an unbelievably successful novel setting as more of an afterthought.
A ruined elven city full of monsters & artifacts = useful. An elven city in the woods = "just like everything else" - both boring and useless to gamer. If I wanted to read about that, I would have cracked open a Tolkien book.
I need useful bits out of FR - enjoyable fantasy reading I can get anywhere. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 16 Oct 2012 23:12:11 |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 06:38:49
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You are likely going to disagree with me on this, because it sounds like you'd want it useful in a more adventuring way, but restored Myth Drannor would still be useful as, say a place of origin for a character you or one of your fellow players.
In another thread focusing on Myth Drannor, there was a proposal to have perhaps the "underneath" of MD still be a place of danger and exploration. I am all right with this. It could be interesting. What I don't want to see is another destruction of the city after it has been restored. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Lord Bane
Senior Scribe
Germany
479 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 09:43:10
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Cities are not immune to getting besieged and destroyed, Myth Drannor may fall again. In the end it is the decision of the ones working on the setting what has more value, an elven city filled with adventure or another ruin filled with adventure.
I“d personally like to see Zhentil Keep restored who was now destroyed two times within less than 30 years but it is not sure if it will happen. I didn“t wish for it to be destroyed yet the ones working on the setting deemed it to be that way. I do not like it but it happened.
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The driving force in the multiverse is evil, for it forces good to act. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 11:29:11
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In time, Zhentil Keep will be restored, specially that its core leaders are still alive. They only have to become stronger and seek a powerful ally or two so that in any case Shade takes interest in them again, they wouldn't be so easily obliterated. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Definition: What's in a RSE?
