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Hymn
Senior Scribe
Sweden
514 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Jan 2004 : 00:25:31
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What would the Zhentarim do if darkhold was to fall by an alliance of Cormyr, The lords Alliance and with the help of the Harpers and mercenary companies. I know the Harpers sworn to Blackstaff have a truce with the Zenths for the time beeing but this dosen't stop other Harper factions to join the fray. Just post your ideas. Thank you
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Sauro moki kara ochiro - Even monkeys falls from trees.
The path that leads to truth is littered with the bodies of the ignorant - Miyamoto Musashi |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2004 : 01:51:32
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Hmm...this is a very interesting question (and a little moot for my own campaign since the Darkhold is currently floating in the Ethereal)...so much so that I think it deserves some more time to think about what you have said (plus I have to get back to work).
I'll try and post some thoughts later...
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2004 : 01:53:56
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Actually I do have one quick thought...in the form of some questions...
What is the current force composition and number of the Zhentarim stationed at the Darkhold?. Is there anything special located there at the time of this attack, or are we just assuming the normal disposition of military and magical forces?.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Hymn
Senior Scribe
Sweden
514 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2004 : 07:59:02
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| Well as for the forces I have the normal deposisotion for now at least :-) 3 ed that is. Another question would be how much the clashing forces of Bane and Cyric have for effect on the place, or perhaps they emenate such true evil power that the place truly will be a old of darkness. |
Sauro moki kara ochiro - Even monkeys falls from trees.
The path that leads to truth is littered with the bodies of the ignorant - Miyamoto Musashi |
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Cyric
Senior Scribe
Norway
388 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2004 : 18:36:50
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Wel the effects of this attack would lead to a all out war the Zhentarim wont stand for this nether wil the priest of Cyric and Bane. It would probaley lead to a all out war. And this would most likley make old evil foes stand up unitet, this is a almst all powerful foe after all but if the Zhentarim stand alone the lose big time but not after maney fights all ower the place.
And by the way is Baldurs gate a members of the The lords Alliance ? |
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Cherrn
Learned Scribe
Denmark
323 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2004 : 19:37:27
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| I don't think the church of Cyric and the church of Bane would ever be allies. As I see it, with the risk of open war, Cormyr wouldn't join in the battle because Cormyr can't handle open war so shortly after Nalavara and her Ghaznets |
A wise man from Calimport once told me: "If a merchant puts sand in the flask of oil he's trying to sell you, then he isn't trying to sell you sand..." |
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Hymn
Senior Scribe
Sweden
514 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2004 : 21:00:09
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| Perhaps, but they have had a few years to build their forces. I think they would at least send a small detatchment, since in destroying Darkhold they rid the Stonelands of any lurking Zentharim forces, and an attack from that direction. That would just leave them with the Sembians and Arabel of course ;-) |
Sauro moki kara ochiro - Even monkeys falls from trees.
The path that leads to truth is littered with the bodies of the ignorant - Miyamoto Musashi |
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Hymn
Senior Scribe
Sweden
514 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2004 : 21:06:30
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| and as Cherrn mentioned I don't think the possibility of the followers of Bane and Cyric would join up on this, I think in fact that Fzoul would be angry at the loss of Darkhold but at the same time be glad to be rid of the pestering followers of Cyricc occupying Darkhold. As mentioned in the CS, Fzoul have played around with Darkhold letting them more or less fight for a position as the commander of the place. |
Sauro moki kara ochiro - Even monkeys falls from trees.
The path that leads to truth is littered with the bodies of the ignorant - Miyamoto Musashi |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2004 : 07:55:23
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In the current situation with the stand-off within the Zhentarim (Bane vs. Cyric) Darkhold doesn't really pose a greater danger than it has been for the region - maybe even less of a danger... Why would countries like Cormyr and organizations like the Lords Alliance invest so much money to wage war on Darkhold. And take in account that waging war is not some nice glorious thing, but has to be wgaed economically, otherwise the war-waging groups find themselves perhaps closer to bankrupcy or the likes.
Also the Lord's Alliance is not likely to be united on the subject. Waterdeep for instance is a little more likely to follow the Blackstaff's course and therefore acknowledge the 'truce' with the Zhents. Actually most of the cities in the Lord's Alliance are merchant cities, and unless they see a profit in making war on Darkhold, the will refrain from it.
The harpers will be alone - for sure initially - if they would decide to wage war, then again, waging an overt war is not the style of the harpers... |
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Hymn
Senior Scribe
Sweden
514 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2004 : 23:43:57
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| Hmmm, good point JP. Though one have to remember that most keeps fall because of treachery from the inside. And who is a better traitor to the Zenths and have better knowledge about Darkhold then Sememmon. If he where to fall into the right hands, sort of. He would have much valuebal information to the enemies of the Zentharim. Since he have no future among them at least not with Fzoul as a ruler, I would bet on that he is quiet eager to get his revenge, and who knows perhaps some of the zenth troops would even trade sides to their former leader's. and the question isn't really if it would work, I have a plan that will make it work. The question is, what would happen if it would work. ;-) |
Sauro moki kara ochiro - Even monkeys falls from trees.
The path that leads to truth is littered with the bodies of the ignorant - Miyamoto Musashi |
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Cyric
Senior Scribe
Norway
388 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2004 : 19:40:56
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| War is what would happen war that would spread, i think this would have ben the start at a all out war a world war parhaps |
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Dracandos the Spellsage
Senior Scribe
466 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2004 : 20:29:23
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| wow a world war of Toril...who would win!?!?! |
Death strips away the masks men don to hide their true nature - The Slayer's Guide to Undead
The Lord of Murder shall perish, but in his doom he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. Chaos shall be sown from their passage - So Sayeth the Wise Alaundo
Whenever magic one doth weave, 'tis never ever wise to deceive - Elminster
Strength and power come from knowing and controlling what others do not, but never reveal all that you know - Vecna
I have been known to cast a blue mage spell now and again - Dracandos the Spellsage |
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Roewyn
Learned Scribe
114 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 00:38:31
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A world war, Darkhold isn't that important. Only Cormyr would be intersted in there but they are not as powerful as they were.
But Shadow Lord is an irritating enemy and he is now appeared on the stage of intrigue, I don't know for sure his lasts deeds but he wants to regain Netherese authority over Toril. He might be planning a long term plot.
That can trigger a real world war, and that's a real threat. |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 00:43:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Roewyn
A world war, Darkhold isn't that important. Only Cormyr would be intersted in there but they are not as powerful as they were.
But Shadow Lord is an irritating enemy and he is now appeared on the stage of intrigue, I don't know for sure his lasts deeds but he wants to regain Netherese authority over Toril. He might be planning a long term plot.
That can trigger a real world war, and that's a real threat.
Ehem, by Shadow lord, you mean Mask, *Lord of Shadows*, right? Not me, THE SHADOWLORD, correct? |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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Dracandos the Spellsage
Senior Scribe
466 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 02:21:02
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i was not aware there was a difference Shadowlord |
Death strips away the masks men don to hide their true nature - The Slayer's Guide to Undead
The Lord of Murder shall perish, but in his doom he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. Chaos shall be sown from their passage - So Sayeth the Wise Alaundo
Whenever magic one doth weave, 'tis never ever wise to deceive - Elminster
Strength and power come from knowing and controlling what others do not, but never reveal all that you know - Vecna
I have been known to cast a blue mage spell now and again - Dracandos the Spellsage |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 02:36:40
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| Of course there is! Hes the Lord of Shadows, I'm a Shadowlord! He rules over shadows, while I am a Chosen of Vhaeraun. |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 04:35:38
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| Putting aside the unlikely nature of such a unification, that is an alliance between Cormyr, the Harpers, and the Lords' Alliance, the Zhents would probably try and start a war over it, but I would imagine they would lose. First, any concept of the Followers of Bane and Cyric allying to defend Darkhold is absurd. The Cyricists would probably feign a true and then stab the Banites in the back, since that is the Cyricist way. After that Darkhold would fall and Fzoul would probably try to start a war to reclaim it, but I think it would achieve little. The Zhents really cannot content with the powers of Cormyr and the Lords' Alliance untied, as unlikely as that is. In the end, I would say the whole scenario is unlikely, is even remotely possible. The only nation that would have any reason to try would be Cormyr, and they are too weak to try it right now. Also, Hymn the Harpers sworn to Blackstaff is in fact a group called the Moonstars. You can find out about the Moonstars in Cloak & Dagger, a Second Edition Forgotten Realms product. |
Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep
"Mmm…pie…"
- Gaius Solarian, Captain General |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Crust
Learned Scribe
USA
273 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 13:03:52
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A war upon the Zhentarim? That would truly be epic.
Think about how many evil organizations would pop up to gain a foothold on the nations devoting their attention to the war? The malaugrym, the Sharrans, The Cult of the Dragon, The Twisted Rune...Any of those organizations, and perhaps more, would be fighting to assassinate Mourngrym, or Morn, or even the infant King. Could be a fine assignment for PCs to transport that infant king to some safe local.
What is also staggering is what the Zhents could bring to the battle. This war would be unlike anything any of us have ever seen. Archwizards, dark clerics, hordes of humanoids and monsters of all kinds, including beholders, constructs, and most definitely devils (and perhaps demons). The Alliance would most certainly contain all manner of good races, and perhaps a few unruly ones (my githyanki Incursion campaign has a tribe of quaggoths battling on the side of the Alliance - they're enthralled by a epic-level shadow sorcerer I used to play). We'd finally see Scyllua astride her albino nightmare! Perhaps the Peregost would step onto the field. Man! That's be an entrance not unlike Sauron's at the beginning of Fellowship!
This is interesting because I almost wanted to use Darkhold in my campaign. I was thinking of having the PCs get captured as they attempted to retake Dagger Falls from githyanki and Zhent occupation (the Zhents fear the githyanki, both for their seemingly endless numbers, their Lich-Queen, and her command over red dragons). I was going to use that monstrous map of Castle Waterdeep (found in the City of Speldors box). It seems large enough. |
"That's right, hurl back views that force ye to think by name-calling - 'tis the grand old tradition, let it not down! Anything to keep from having to think, or - Mystra forfend - change thy own views!"
Narnra glowered at her father. "Just how am I to learn how to think? By being taught by you?"
"Some folk in the Realms would give their lives for the chance to learn at my feet," Elminster said mildly. "Several already have."
~from Elminster's Daughter, Ed Greenwood |
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Cyric
Senior Scribe
Norway
388 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 14:41:31
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| i think that could trigger souch a war it is a importen place for Bane and he would surley send some of his minions and the zents would most likley get allys and all manner of people would take advantege of this and maney gods would help the war tempus and Bane and his allys and Cyric just playing them all and the god gods trying to take out evil and the dales would get in to it. And the zent do have maney allys. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 02:17:33
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The Zhents would only have 'those many' allies if their plans seem to be generating enough of a reward to justify allying with them. If, and when things started to go badly for the Black Network, they will most likely quickly find themselves without these allies, and forced to face defeat on their own.
In the Zhentarim's case, their alliances will only last as long as the gold they provide for their allies assistance, and the quick benefit of rewards from campaigns waged against their enemies. Once that disappears, the Black Network will find themselves without any allies to rely upon.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Hymn
Senior Scribe
Sweden
514 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 12:08:57
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| Hmm, yes right you are Sage. I have been thinking along those tracks also. After all the Zentharim are merchants foremost and a "mage guild" second. |
Sauro moki kara ochiro - Even monkeys falls from trees.
The path that leads to truth is littered with the bodies of the ignorant - Miyamoto Musashi |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 16:03:20
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Although, I suppose the Black Network could rely more on the less intelligent races, making the tribes of orcs and ogres in the area part of their ally troop contingent...This at least has the advantage of making it easier for the Zhents to maintain a stronger hold over these allies, and provides them with access to better incentives to motive the troops, mainly being razing and pillaging.
There have been numerous examples throughout history, that there can sometimes be advantages in having an army that doesn't think for itself, and does exactly as it's told.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Crust
Learned Scribe
USA
273 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 17:04:51
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You make very interesting points, Sage.
In my campaign, I like to assume that other beings are pulling the strings. Sure, the Zhentarim rely on gold, but in a pinch, or in the case of my campaign, it isn't impossible that an alhoon or an epic-level phaerimm sorcerer have their claws (and spells) deeply implanted in the minds of those who unwittingly serve them.
In my githyanki incursion campaign, it is not Vlaakith who controls the legions of orcs, trolls, beholders, and a host of other humanoids and monsters (monsters you'd never expect to unite under one banner). It is a pair of phaerimm epic spellcasters of varrying skill and power who operate things. Vlaakith assumes she is at the top of the hierarchy, but the phaerimm, so alien in their intelligence and ambitions, are content to let her think so. At one time there were three, but Elminster destroyed it in the woods north of Shadowdale when it and a trio of beholders ambushed the party (an assassination attempt for their roles in their attempts to gain a military and strategic foothold in Shadowdale).
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"That's right, hurl back views that force ye to think by name-calling - 'tis the grand old tradition, let it not down! Anything to keep from having to think, or - Mystra forfend - change thy own views!"
Narnra glowered at her father. "Just how am I to learn how to think? By being taught by you?"
"Some folk in the Realms would give their lives for the chance to learn at my feet," Elminster said mildly. "Several already have."
~from Elminster's Daughter, Ed Greenwood |
Edited by - Crust on 30 Jan 2004 17:06:59 |
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Cyric
Senior Scribe
Norway
388 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 21:11:41
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| any way it would have ben a big war |
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Hymn
Senior Scribe
Sweden
514 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 23:04:04
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Ah yes, canon fodder is always a good way to buy time for the strike at vital targets  . Perhaps the Zentharim can pull back their orcish forces from the east, the ones left from the attack of the Tugian horde. If they still obey the commands of the Zentharim that is. |
Sauro moki kara ochiro - Even monkeys falls from trees.
The path that leads to truth is littered with the bodies of the ignorant - Miyamoto Musashi |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2004 : 02:13:14
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I think that's highly unlikely...Orcs aren't exactly known for their patience and stick-to-it-ness. Once the situation became settled after the Tuigan Horde, those forces of Orcs most likely fell into raiding and pillaging the countryside of the regions ravaged by the Horde. We know such things occured, as it's detailed in the 2e Grand Tour of the Realms.
Also, without focus or direction, the Zhentarim would be unable to hold onto those orcs forces for very long, in fact, I would assume that the Black Network probably found some way to abandon those same forces once the work was done...caring little for the devastation and disruption to commerical traffic such a force of orcs can create.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Hymn
Senior Scribe
Sweden
514 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2004 : 21:41:35
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| hmm, perhaps. They have settled in with the local community's in Thesk foremost. But then again there is this adventure, the web enchatment for The Unapprochable East that plays on the rising of a Zhentilar loyal force in Phent, that method would well work as a re-kindling for the orcs, as would the method to stop it I guess. My point is that it wouldn't be impossible to gather the herd back again. |
Sauro moki kara ochiro - Even monkeys falls from trees.
The path that leads to truth is littered with the bodies of the ignorant - Miyamoto Musashi |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2004 : 03:58:01
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Oh...I'd actually forgotten about the orc force still in Phent that was mentioned in the UE web enchancement. You see in my campaign, that force was collected up, and used by the Black Network in 1370 DR...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Cyric
Senior Scribe
Norway
388 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2004 : 23:29:57
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| a orc hord at The zents side that would be fun to se |
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Lord Nasher Alagondar
Acolyte
USA
27 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2004 : 23:34:48
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Excuse my next response for the off-topicness
But not as much fun as the Zhentish Banites crushing the Cyricists into one big bloody pulp! |
"Very well, I am admittedly not as traditional in my methodology as you are. So what? The end result is all the same: target ceases to exist. If I happen to use a bit more flair, and a little less stealth to go about it, so be it. If drow were truly meant to skulk within the shadows, we'd not have stark white hair, now would we? Long gone are my days of creeping in the shadows and hiding in wait. Those means are for beings of a cowardly bent. We Bladesingers are risen above such dribble. So saying, it is boldly into the fray I shall go; if I should come to meet my maker, I will at least have done so with a sense of pride and dignity that your ilk will never truly understand. Now go back to hiding in your dark recesses, pathetic mewling...."~Vesz'aun Auvryath |
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The fall of Darkhold
