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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Oct 2012 : 01:38:28
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
@Sage re: Wonder Woman: My concern is thus. Having Diana not have to be born of a man is a really cool feminist statement. It says that women don't really need men in order to have what they want in life. The new origin says the opposite: as awesome as the Amazons are, they still can't be happy without a man's seed, as it were. Which is a problematic statement.
I don't see it as problematic in any way, if anything it's closer to truth than how male heroes are portrayed. That in my mind is the bigger misconception, that men don't need women or anyone's help.
It's not problematic regarding supporting characters--she has plenty of those. It's the gender politics of the past vs. the retcon.
The problem comes in that Wonder Woman was something unique in comics: she was a female character who was not dependent or reliant on a male character. She was conceived by the queen without a man and raised/trained by the Amazons--no men involved.
Men weren't in her backstory, they weren't part of her motivation. If she romanced a man, that was by her choice, and she was always the one with the power (just like vice versa with every male superhero you can name). She could exist on her own as a woman without having to lean on any man, the way a lot of (most, actually) male superheroes are allowed to exist without having to lean on any woman. No men involved.
This is not to say that she was without supporting characters. Wonder Woman had dozens of extremely powerful and effective role models who shaped her into what she was. The thing is, they were all women. Hippolyta, Artemis, the other Amazons, etc. No men involved.
Now, though, not only is a man (Zeus) retconned into Wonder Woman's history, but he's VASTLY superior to her and to her mother. Why is Wonder Woman powerful? Because she's the daughter of a god. Her power comes from a man. And no matter how awesome she becomes, she's still operating in the shadow of that divine MAN.
That seems to . . . lessen Wonder Woman, I think. The pinnacle of the empowered woman is now reduced to being just a derivative of a man.
And also it's a shame, because there was SO MUCH POTENTIAL for a cooler backstory. Make Wonder Woman the daughter of Hippolyta and Athena, for instance. How awesome would that be?
But this isn't a Realms discussion. If we want to keep talking about Wonder Woman, let's do it on facebook or something outside Candlekeep. 
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31727 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2012 : 02:33:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Sightless
A pity I can’t read comics, I did rather like the character and it would be interesting to see what they’ve don with her. I doubt they gave her scale mail though.
Most of the time, Sonja still wears the chainmail armour bikini, but the various artists who have worked on the book over the years have also played around with new costume types.
Not to mention her role in Queen Sonja which has her regularly wearing various royal and formal attire. |
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31727 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2012 : 02:33:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
As a note- just my two cents, mind- Red sonya very rarely teams with or relies on anyone else, at least in the comics.
That's true.
And it's one of the reasons why I'm currently buying both the Red Sonja and Queen Sonja comic books from Dynamite Entertainment. Divorced from her previously poorly crafted renditions by earlier publishers, this version of Red Sonja has now been fully realised as a character in her own right.
I'm loving the exploration of her character from various points in her history -- from infancy right to the point where she takes the throne and beyond. Awesome stuff!
I don't know enough about Sonja...what does she become queen of?
The Frozen Wastes region. And the book spends a great deal of time delving into the history of the realm, which is another aspect of the series that I enjoy as well. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2012 : 23:37:53
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In The Wise Man's Fear, females are generally seen as superior to men, particularly the Ademre warriors. The Ademre are fierce fighters, and their martial arts, Ketan (which is like a combination of Yoga and various Chinese martial arts), is rooted in control. Since men are generally impetuous, it's the women who usually master this art. Even their leaders are mostly women. If not for their "backward" thinking and hypocrisy, I might have liked them. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Female Realms Heroes
