| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Aug 2012 : 03:13:19
|
I was looking over my copy of Desert of Desolation, and I noticed no mention of the Adama. Instead, the Durpari are followers of Anu. I checked the original modules, and Anu is mentioned as the god of the Sybalayans(sp?).
Now, I think the Adama is a cool concept, but what about this as an alternative for Durpar's religion, one more in line with DoD (and Old Empires):
Anu
Lesser Power (or maybe Intermediate Power?)
The Exile, God’s Breath, Lord of the Heavenly Vault, the Eternal
History:Anu’s cult flourished for a time in Unther, after the Orcgate Wars during the early phase of the Second Empire of Unther.
The interloper god challenged Enilil for kingship. In the fight that followed Anu was defeated. His corporeal form was destroyed permanently, but his breath survived. The would-be king of the gods fled to Mulhorhand, but the god-kings there expelled him to honor a treaty with Unther. Anu, now reduced an airy sprit of demi power status, flew farther to the south beyond the reach of the Mulan god-kings.
Hovering over the land now known as Durpar, Anu brooded and plotted for centuries. He slowly gained followers among the primitive semi-nomadic tribesmen of the area. He could not manifest in solid body to rule over his people and aid them directly in battle, as the Old Gods of Unther and Mulhorand were wont to do. He could, though, blow tempests to confound his worshippers’ foes, speak to his priests in windborne messages, and bring rain to parched fields by blowing storm clouds across the sky.
Cult and Ethos:
Because Anu lacks any visible body or form he has grown jealous and resentful of other gods, who can take on solid form. He has forbidden his worshippers to make any images of him.
His Durpari worshippers eventually adopted a blue circle as Anu’s symbol—blue like the fair skies and perfectly shaped, without beginning or end. In time, the prohibition on making images of Anu was extended to a prohibition on idols in general. Anu’s proclamations against the gods of Unther (who had cast him out) and of Mulhorand (who had rejected him in his need) were interpreted as enmity towards all other gods.
Anu’s traditions are passed down orally from priest to priest, with tablets and scrolls used mainly for keeping temple records or recording spells/prayers. There is no single major holy book of the faith. The priests do not deny the existence of other gods, but hold it as wicked or barbaric for humans to worship such gods. All other gods are classed as enemy spirits, servants of Anu, mighty beasts, rebellious demons, etc. The religious code prohibits drunkenness and gambling, commands respect for the priesthood and temporal rulers, and mandates strict punishments for wrong-doers. Idolatry is prohibited. No power may be honored over Anu, or even alongside him. Temples of Anu are built as ziggurats with open roofed shrines at the top.
Relations with other gods:
Anu has no allies among the gods of men. He considers the pantheons of Unther and Mulhorand to be enemies or rivals, but neither set of gods paid him much attention until the growth of his cult in recent times. He grudgingly tolerates most of the greater and intermediate powers of the Fauerunian Pantheon, but only because he is not powerful enough to challenge them. He mostly ignores non-human powers, provided they do not compete with him for followers (His followers may be less tolerant of ‘beast gods’ and ‘demon cults’, though).
Servants:
(I’m not at all sure about this list; it’s just a set of ideas)
Lawful Dragon types
Windghosts (abberations)
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mm2_gallery/88268_620_124.jpg
Abeil (bee-people from 3E)
Invisible Stalkers
Pegasi (axiomatic in 3E)
Shedu?
Air elementals
Comments? Questions?
|
YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
Edited by - combatmedic on 23 Aug 2012 06:58:29
|
|
|
Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2012 : 09:33:45
|
In mythology Anu is the head of the pantheon, rebellion against Enlil doesn't really fit. He was one of the gods who didn't travel from Earth, maybe his influence on Toril weakened because of that, when people could see other god-kings, so only a cult remained.
As for the servants you could add lammasu, girtablilu (scorpionfolk), shedu, griffons, ekimmu, mishtu, sirrush, humbaba, asakku, asag, maybe even lillends, utukku, anzu, or lilitu. |
 |
|
|
combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2012 : 10:47:31
|
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
In mythology Anu is the head of the pantheon, rebellion against Enlil doesn't really fit. He was one of the gods who didn't travel from Earth, maybe his influence on Toril weakened because of that, when people could see other god-kings, so only a cult remained.
As for the servants you could add lammasu, girtablilu (scorpionfolk), shedu, griffons, ekimmu, mishtu, sirrush, humbaba, asakku, asag, maybe even lillends, utukku, anzu, or lilitu.
Yup.
Anu is the Akkadian name for the Sumerian An. As I understand it, An was one of the elder gods, and was seen as 'king' of the gods or a member or a ruling triad (which included Enlil). It gets tricky when you consider the way roles and relative importance of these gods varied over time and even from one city to the next.
It gets even more complex when you consider the way the Akkadians and later dominant peoples would add to , reinterpret, and syncretize the Sumerian myths.
The most relevant point is that the decidedly inaccurate, but also very fun, Deities and Demigods lists Anu (Akkadian name) a head of the 'Babylonian Mythos.' As the author noted, he deliberately expanded on differences between the gods of Sumer and some of the later Mesopotamian gods, in order to differentiate the pantheons.
I assume, perhaps incorrectly, that most of the game designers used material from deities and Demigods when writing up Old Empires stuff.
|
YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
Edited by - combatmedic on 23 Aug 2012 10:59:29 |
|
|
|
combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2012 : 10:49:05
|
Great list of servants, by the way!
Anu (FR version) might also have been one of the powers banished by Gilgeam well after Enlil departed. |
YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
Edited by - combatmedic on 23 Aug 2012 10:53:49 |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2012 : 03:31:33
|
I managed to get the DoD series to fit on the official Raurin map, if you are interested. The scale is pretty damn accurate (compared to the modules).
The Hordelands |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
|
|
|
combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2012 : 04:26:51
|
Nice map!
|
YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
|
|
|
Marc
Senior Scribe
662 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2012 : 17:26:41
|
| On Hallowed Ground has the same explanation. I wonder why they didn't split the Roman gods from the Olympians then. Has more mythological material than between the Sumerians and the Akkadians-Babylonians. |
. |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2012 : 20:58:29
|
| I tried to do something along these lines (I saw Anu in DoD as well) in the old Utter East thread. I forget now where I went with it - I recall some knights of Anu, or some-such. It was basically 'the old religion' of the region. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
|
|
|
Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2012 : 06:07:37
|
Officially, Anu is a deity from Unther and, in fact, is really the god Enlil. Enlil took Anu as his own aspect when arriving in Toril. Enlil and Ishtar left Realmspace, and thus, Anu was gone as well. It was Anshar and Druaga that were driven out of Toril by Gilgeam.
This makes me wish the new Forgotten Realms coming in 5E can bring back this entire pantheon. It would make for a very interesting realm to play in, and side by side with Mulhorand and their pantheon, it'd be like the Old Empires feeling new all over again. |
|
|
|
combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2012 : 06:23:05
|
quote:
Originally posted by Razz
Officially, Anu is a deity from Unther and, in fact, is really the god Enlil. Enlil took Anu as his own aspect when arriving in Toril. Enlil and Ishtar left Realmspace, and thus, Anu was gone as well. It was Anshar and Druaga that were driven out of Toril by Gilgeam.
This makes me wish the new Forgotten Realms coming in 5E can bring back this entire pantheon. It would make for a very interesting realm to play in, and side by side with Mulhorand and their pantheon, it'd be like the Old Empires feeling new all over again.
Anu might be 'gone' according to later publications-- yet a bunch of clerics are running about Durpar and Raurin, casting spells and worshipping Anu. It's all right there in Desert of Desolation.
I wonder if the later set of designers missed something, or just decided the Creation Spirit/Adama angle was better and ignored what came before?
Of course, it really only matters as a curious little bit of 'canon.' Whatever the DM wants, that's what matters.
|
YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
|
|
|
Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2012 : 14:10:47
|
That's always been my problem with the Realms. Some of its designers. Instead of proper research, some of them just tossed in whatever imaginative thing they wanted at the time and would have no idea of possible contradictions from others publications. Either they didn't bother or they realized how insane it would be to try and scope for all the lore to make sure that one paragraph in their product wasn't invalidating something set in stone in another. It's slowly turning into the mess that Star Wars is and I honestly believe none of us want it to go down that route.
Which is why I am surprised someone there at WotC wasn't given the task of being the "Forgotten Realms Analyst" or some such title. Their sole job would be to collect every single piece of lore ever written in-house (game products, novels, comics, Dragon and Dungeon articles, Polyhedron articles, etc....and maybe video games, that's up to them) and place them in a database similar to Wikipedia for their personal use.
A monumental task, but there are plenty just here at Candlekeep who would be honored to take that on alone. And probably for not that much pay. You'd have to just get someone that would just love to do that and, well, we already have folks here that do. WotC would simply need to give them full access through mail or digitally every copy of published FR lore, of course.
Went off the topic rails there for a moment, but I thought it was relevant to point out considering the original post here was the confusion with what Desert of Desolation had printed. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36965 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2012 : 14:45:14
|
quote:
Originally posted by combatmedic
quote:
Originally posted by Razz
Officially, Anu is a deity from Unther and, in fact, is really the god Enlil. Enlil took Anu as his own aspect when arriving in Toril. Enlil and Ishtar left Realmspace, and thus, Anu was gone as well. It was Anshar and Druaga that were driven out of Toril by Gilgeam.
This makes me wish the new Forgotten Realms coming in 5E can bring back this entire pantheon. It would make for a very interesting realm to play in, and side by side with Mulhorand and their pantheon, it'd be like the Old Empires feeling new all over again.
Anu might be 'gone' according to later publications-- yet a bunch of clerics are running about Durpar and Raurin, casting spells and worshipping Anu. It's all right there in Desert of Desolation.
Desert of Desolation was something backported into the Realms, and it's an older publication. Newer lore trumps older lore -- so those clerics are either getting their spells from someone else, or they'd taken that "I worship a dead god!" feat. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
|
|
|
combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2012 : 18:35:36
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by combatmedic
quote:
Originally posted by Razz
Officially, Anu is a deity from Unther and, in fact, is really the god Enlil. Enlil took Anu as his own aspect when arriving in Toril. Enlil and Ishtar left Realmspace, and thus, Anu was gone as well. It was Anshar and Druaga that were driven out of Toril by Gilgeam.
This makes me wish the new Forgotten Realms coming in 5E can bring back this entire pantheon. It would make for a very interesting realm to play in, and side by side with Mulhorand and their pantheon, it'd be like the Old Empires feeling new all over again.
Anu might be 'gone' according to later publications-- yet a bunch of clerics are running about Durpar and Raurin, casting spells and worshipping Anu. It's all right there in Desert of Desolation.
Desert of Desolation was something backported into the Realms, and it's an older publication. Newer lore trumps older lore -- so those clerics are either getting their spells from someone else, or they'd taken that "I worship a dead god!" feat.
Newer lore hasn't trumped older lore for the guys who don't like or use 4E Forgotten Realms.
For the record I actually do like some of the 4E Realms setting changes. They went further with RSEs than I'd have gone, but the cleaning house and reimagining was impressive. YMMV
|
YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2012 : 18:50:19
|
Like I said, we covered a lot of this in the Utter East thread at wotC. Some of it is coming back to me - we even found a 'fix' for the Anu/Enlil thing (they had become one when the emigrated to Toril, but later split back apart because of some very basic ideological differences). We decided a 'vestige' of Anu (split from Enlil) still existed in some form, and was venerated by the White Cloaks (a group of religious fanatic paladins/knights, loosely based on WoT's 'Blue Cloaks').
At least I think thats where we went with it... The 'White Cloaks' may have been Adama worshipers after a time... can't remember exactly. We also linked the Adama with the Brahma religion the hordelands/western K-T (they both had very similar prophets, right down to similar-sounding names). All I recall is it was one, big convoluted 'fix' to get everything to jell (the histories of the various sub-settings doesn't mesh very well).
EDIT: Just found the spot where I started discussing the Anu/Enlil split - Utter East Thread. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 25 Aug 2012 18:54:20 |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36965 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2012 : 23:35:50
|
quote:
Originally posted by combatmedic
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by combatmedic
quote:
Originally posted by Razz
Officially, Anu is a deity from Unther and, in fact, is really the god Enlil. Enlil took Anu as his own aspect when arriving in Toril. Enlil and Ishtar left Realmspace, and thus, Anu was gone as well. It was Anshar and Druaga that were driven out of Toril by Gilgeam.
This makes me wish the new Forgotten Realms coming in 5E can bring back this entire pantheon. It would make for a very interesting realm to play in, and side by side with Mulhorand and their pantheon, it'd be like the Old Empires feeling new all over again.
Anu might be 'gone' according to later publications-- yet a bunch of clerics are running about Durpar and Raurin, casting spells and worshipping Anu. It's all right there in Desert of Desolation.
Desert of Desolation was something backported into the Realms, and it's an older publication. Newer lore trumps older lore -- so those clerics are either getting their spells from someone else, or they'd taken that "I worship a dead god!" feat.
Newer lore hasn't trumped older lore for the guys who don't like or use 4E Forgotten Realms.
Pretty sure it was done in 2E. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2012 : 05:59:55
|
Yes, you are correct about the Adama replacing Anu in 2E FR materials. I acknowledged that change or addition in the first post. I placed this thread in Running the Realms because it's not about a canon question, but about making my own version of the setting to use in actual play. If it were a canon thread, I'd ask about 4E. 4E material trumps 2E and 3E material, because it is newer.
Since you brought up edition changes and new lore, I have a couple of questions related to the canon:
• What is the canonical status of Durpar and the Adama in 4E? Any big changes?
• Do you run games using the up-to date canon, which is to say the 4E campaign setting materials?
• If you don't use 4E, post-Spellplague Realms--
• Are the 4E events things that have not yet happened in your game, but are going to happen in the future?
• Is the 4E stuff just not part of your Realms at all?
• What is the current date in your game? Do you stick fairly close to canon, or make a lot of your own stuff that overrides published materials?
• Is there a cutoff date (real world publication or in-universe timeline) on your personal 'canon'?
|
YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36965 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2012 : 15:21:04
|
I, personally, am not running a game right now. My gaming group split up years ago (as a gaming group, that is), and I've not bothered to find a new one.
If I was, I would default my campaign to right after Cloak & Dagger, and before the advent of 3E. There were a lot of changes I didn't like in 3E, storylines I should have like to have seen continued were abruptly dropped, and I didn't care for many of the endless flood of RSEs. Some of the events I would have had happen differently, some I would have totally omitted. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2012 : 18:52:48
|
There is no reason why the older lore can't still be supported, which was my point. In the past, 'Anu worship' may have been all the rage in the Shining Lands, but the Adama edged it out over time.
You don't necessarily have to disagree with canon just to put your own spin on things. In fact, sometimes you can better support out-dated (over-written) canon then the official setting does. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 26 Aug 2012 18:53:46 |
|
|
|
combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2012 : 21:59:49
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I, personally, am not running a game right now. My gaming group split up years ago (as a gaming group, that is), and I've not bothered to find a new one.
If I was, I would default my campaign to right after Cloak & Dagger, and before the advent of 3E. There were a lot of changes I didn't like in 3E, storylines I should have like to have seen continued were abruptly dropped, and I didn't care for many of the endless flood of RSEs. Some of the events I would have had happen differently, some I would have totally omitted.
Sounds cool.
I wish you luck if you ever do try to form a new group.
My preference is to use the Old Gray Box as the baseline, and selectively add stuff from later sources.
I don't really mind the RSEs because I just ignore whatever don't fit my campaign. Feeling no obligation to confrom to canon frees me to do what I like with the setting. |
YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
|
|
|
Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2021 : 01:43:49
|
Yes, I know, total thread necromancy, but it's the same topic and no point in making a whole new thread. Consolidation is best.
I've noted there was an official source stating that Enlil took on Anu's aspect in the Realms, but I can't recall exactly where I saw that reference. I've checked Old Empires, Lost Empires of Faerun, Desert of Desolation, Powers&Pantheons, Forgotten Realms Wiki and I can't find where I specifically saw it quoted. I just know I saw it, recorded it down, but forgot to record the source info (and when I do, I plan to edit the Wiki to reflect it)
If anyone else remembers, I'd like to know. Trying to keep a footnote in my personal Realmslore files as a reference for the future. |
|
|
|
Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
959 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2021 : 04:55:00
|
It's briefly alluded in Powers and Pantheons, on page 96, though it's quite easy to miss:
quote:
In Unther, after a few centuries, Enlil (also known as Anu) abdicated in favor of his son, Gilgeam, and vanished from the Realms.
It's also elaborated on arguably semi-canon materials by Thomas M. Costa (copypaste the whole link):
https://web.archive.org/web/20150131031353/http://oracle.wizards.com/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind0204c&L=realms-l&D=1&F=&S=&P=7268
quote:
However, there was a casualty, Anu, head of the Babylonian pantheon, was
destroyed by the Imaskari, and it fell upon Enlil to take up Anu's mantle as
an alias and assume control of both pantheons. (Some scholars speculate that
the origins of the Durparian concept of Adama, which is still referred to as
Anu among some of the Durparians of the Raurin Desert, is most likely a
perverted amalgam of Anu, the Zakharan concept of Fate, and perhaps an
ancient appearance of Ao.)
|
Edited by - Baltas on 02 Jul 2021 09:51:58 |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12189 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2021 : 15:44:16
|
Since the idea is brought up.
It could very much be fun if the idea of Anu were refermented in portions of the Shining Lands (i.e. not have it that the Adama is just a replacement of the worship of Anu) with the return of Enlil to the Dragonborn. Particularly if it were in some place close to "southern Unther and the Shaar" where the dragonborn cities are. Calling the idea of the Adama into question, wherein the religious leaders might say "why do we have all these names for the gods if they are all the same entity", could bring a schism into their religion.
Now, I know it won't happen, but it could be fun.... even bringing in Assuran possibly as a son of Anu, who was possibly betrayed by Gilgeam... so they may seek vengeance. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36965 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2021 : 16:15:06
|
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
(snip)
It could very much be fun if the idea of Anu were refermented in portions of the Shining Lands (snip)
Refermented? Are we talking about a deity or an alcoholic beverage? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 02 Jul 2021 16:16:15 |
|
|
|
Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
959 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2021 : 17:14:16
|
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Since the idea is brought up.
It could very much be fun if the idea of Anu were refermented in portions of the Shining Lands (i.e. not have it that the Adama is just a replacement of the worship of Anu) with the return of Enlil to the Dragonborn. Particularly if it were in some place close to "southern Unther and the Shaar" where the dragonborn cities are. Calling the idea of the Adama into question, wherein the religious leaders might say "why do we have all these names for the gods if they are all the same entity", could bring a schism into their religion.
Now, I know it won't happen, but it could be fun.... even bringing in Assuran possibly as a son of Anu, who was possibly betrayed by Gilgeam... so they may seek vengeance.
Well, I remember discusion on tje Candlekeep Forum, that the Anu-monotheists, were a specific splinter group from the mainstream Adama worshippers. Anu's return, or even just Enlil's, can cause a growth of this group, converting others to it in doubt due to Anu and/or Enlil's return.
It's also possible though Anu and/or Enlil could be seen like like the Trimurti in relation to Brahman - a manifestation of the Godhead, but not denying the totality of all things being Adama.
Though it's probable there would be split between the two positions, along with the third that has doubts in the whole system of Adama beliefs. |
Edited by - Baltas on 02 Jul 2021 17:17:11 |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
Anu
