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deserk
Learned Scribe
Norway
239 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Aug 2012 : 15:35:51
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All gods coming back is much better than only a few select gods.
I mean, think about it. What if they brought back gods you didn't like, over gods you did like? Bringing back them all is bound to make at least the majority of people happy.
I'd personally like for there to be as much gods as possible, to give further diversity to the setting. |
Edited by - deserk on 23 Aug 2012 15:42:21 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2012 : 15:44:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
They're symbols, true, but they're also more than that. And this doesn't change the fact that they're not there in canon anymore, no more stories about them will be told (because WotC decided that the drow must be ''kewl and evulz'') even tho it is clear that they are meaningful characters that a lot of fans would be happy to see them back in canon (this is what I read in your statement, at least). Whatever pleases them, I guess...
I think you're overreacting based on not a lot of data. See my earlier notes about deities coming back. (Also, before anyone gets depressed or elated about "all the deities coming back," read what I said about it above.)
Eilistraee and Vhaeraun *never left* canon, so it doesn't really make sense to push for them being *back in canon.* It would certainly be cool to see stories about their respective churches, faiths, and missions. Both of them factor heavily in my home campaign and also relate to some of the Realmslore/fiction I hope to produce in 5e. So no worries. The signs are good that they will be explored in the canon products of 5e, and they are of course available for your game.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
Edited by - Erik Scott de Bie on 23 Aug 2012 15:48:41 |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3823 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2012 : 16:01:45
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| Eilistraee and Vhaeraun left canon when WotC decided to brutally end their story. That's why It makes sense to push for them to be back and supported in the new era, so that stories about them not limited (and rendered kind of vain) by some pointless ultimate conclusion (which was just a design tool) already set in stone could be possible again. However, reading what you wrote, I'll wait and see. Thanks for the keeping hopes up. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 23 Aug 2012 16:03:41 |
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Tarlyn
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2012 : 16:02:38
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Did Tymanther and Akanul ever receive additional support beyond their brief entries in 4e FRCs?
quote:
Originally posted by deserk
All gods coming back is much better than only a few select gods.
I mean, think about it. What if they brought back gods you didn't like, over gods you did like? Bringing back them all is bound to make at least the majority of people happy.
I'd personally like for there to be as much gods as possible, to give further diversity to the setting.
I think the new debate is more about which deities will be supported in official products now that all deities are being brought back. |
Tarlyn Embersun |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2012 : 16:42:21
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| Oooh, if all the gods are coming back then maybe we'll get some good stuff on the Bhaal, Myrkul, and Moander. All three some of my favorites. :) |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2012 : 16:51:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Tarlyn
Did Tymanther and Akanul ever receive additional support beyond their brief entries in 4e FRCs?
They did.
The city of Airspur (capital of Akanûl) and its denizens were detailed in three DDI articles (two in Dragon and one in Dungeon).
I don't recall any articles for Tymanther. Chris Sims wrote an ecology of the Dragonborn article, but it wasn't set in the Realms.
EDIT: I recently read that Tymanther and Akanul have a presence in the Brotherhood of the Griffon novels. I've not read these novels so don't take this as first person info. (Can anyone confirm?)
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Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 23 Aug 2012 17:02:24 |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1632 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2012 : 18:00:32
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| I think people are going to want at least some support for thier cleric of Hoar for example or Llira, Sharess, Malar ect... Otherwise what's the point in being back Gods, if only 20 gods get supported and the rest ignored? Even 4e Campaign Setting Book had the Pantheon of the world table, I'd expect something akin to that at minium. Preferably in the long term I like a Faiths and Avatars, Demigod Deities, and Powers and Pantheons updated for 5e, even if,its just in pdf form. |
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Aulduron
Learned Scribe
USA
343 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2012 : 18:04:11
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| Yes, Tymanther, Akanul are mentioned in BotG, and Tymanther was SW of Mulhorand/Imaskar. |
"Those with talent become wizards, Those without talent spend their lives praying for it"
-Procopio Septus |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2012 : 18:29:25
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I don't want to get into a heated debate (nor should any of us at this point - we haven't even seen what they will unveil).
I wasn't entirely thrilled with the published version of Mulhorand and Unther. I liked the flavor, but they went too far with the derivation. I think that could have been easily fixed.
I was even less thrilled with their solution (no solution really - getting rid of something is not fixing it; IMHO thats bad design). Anyone who knows me knows that I am an advocate for 'monster rights', and the Orcs especially. The city of Arkanul, to me, was one of the most interesting places in The Realms because it was ruled by a half-orc. It demonstrated how, in The Realms, anyone can rise to power. I feel that's an important aspect of the setting - that anyone has the potential to do 'great things'. They nerfed that in favor of Genasi... which FR had all along.
What I want to see in 5e: Ed's version of Mulhorand and Unther, without a lot of the later published trappings. They can be 'Egypt-like' or whatever without having to be direct derivations (right down to the pantheon - at least tweak the names, dammit). This can easily be accomplished with the New Sundering (I can already see problems with this re-use of an old name). The Mulan peoples (one culture this time?) should return, and be caught between their old nemesis the Imaskari (I actually would like to see them gone, but I fear that's not going to happen) and the beings 'left behind' by the Sundering.
It makes sense some of the 'new' people get left behind - they were born on Toril. A century is a long time. Only things originally from Abeir should return to it (leaving them high-and-dry without their settlements and a lot of other things). I'd keep some the elemental (earth) motes though - that should be a hold-over from the magical chaos and could last for centuries after the Spellplague.
So you have a returning people (one has to assume they were in some sort of limbo/stasis, otherwise they shouldn't even be the same people), and you have recent 'refugees' from their own, now-gone lands, and the Imaskari in their magical citadels and enclaves (in remote locations), all vying for the same territory. If done correctly, it could be very, very good.
I just want the Imaskari to be very different then the Netherese - perhaps go with the artificer thing heavily (but not so heavily its smells like steampunk). I'm not happy they returned (I wasn't happy with the Netherese either), but it is what it is. We have to 'fix' our ugly baby, warts and all.
I think amalgams of much of the changed lands - Maztica/Larakond, Thay/Leng, old Empires/new Empires, etc could work in our favor be something fresh and new, and still have enough of the old 1e/2e/3e flavors (mixed with the newer 4e flavor) to appease (if not please) most everyone.
Will it be easy? Hell no! I do not envy the current crop of designers - this is like walking a tightrope with lava pits on one side and alligators on the other. God bless them if they pull it off to our satisfaction. However, Ed is steering this ship, and although he is running straight into the eye of the storm, I think he will get us out the other end, perhaps a little worse for wear.
EDIT: And bring back 'southern magic' - they missed a golden opportunity to tie that to the new sorcerer class in 3e, but instead they gave us a new form of casting and then just ignored the 1e/2e southern magic thing. Opportunities missed, me thinks. From what I understand, 5e will theoretically have three different magic systems (tied to three different Mage classes) - lets use that to give the Realms a bit more regional flavor. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 23 Aug 2012 19:53:04 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4489 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2012 : 19:24:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Quale
You couldn't be more wrong, the Old Empires had far more potential, backed by thousands of years of history and mythology, than some designers pathetic attempt to port nth militaristic reptile race in the Realms.
You mean thousands of years of history and mythology from Earth they just 'plopped' into the Realms. Deities near the same. Heirachy near the same. Same style of huts and pyramids. Same Egyptian feel. I mean, I find nothing about this original or unique that fits into the Realms. As for militaristic reptile race, Dragonborn were in the Realms before the Return of Abeir. Now, while I didn't see the NEED to bring more of them in with a Country of their own, I find it more acceptable than Pharoahs and mummies.
I'm not wrong, I just have a different opinion than you.
And you know what, if I got some sign that they'd still support Tymanther, Akanûl, and Returned Abeir in some fashion then I'd be OK with that because I could just 'port' it over to the Realms with little fuss (or reverse it and give Mulhorand, Unther, and Maztica the same treatment). But I believe, as it stands, they'll wipe away these inspiring things to the shelf and be forgotten, which I still feel is a darn shame. |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator
E6 Options: Epic 6 Campaign |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2012 : 19:35:41
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Let's also not forget that Abeir has been around as long as Toril. Just because it hasn't had the priveledge of seeing its deep history in print, it doesn't follow that history doesn't exist.
With regard to Dragonborn, it's not like the Realms has never played host to the introduction of whole races from other worlds before. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Tarlyn
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2012 : 19:50:56
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| Abeir (the alternate planet) was made up specifically to have an excuse to play musical chairs with the nations in 4e FR. Abeir the name was used to ensure the Abeir-Toril entry was alphabetically first in the campaign setting. While arguably it could have a lot of interesting stuff written about it, it doesn't. The only development for Abeir was published during the 4e era either in the campaign setting or in dungeon and dragon articles, since before that it simply did not exist. That is not to say that it is all bad, but implying that there is some grand history of Abeir is just misleading. |
Tarlyn Embersun |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2012 : 19:58:35
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Actually, I once started a thread trying to find 'old connections' to Abeir in FR material. I realize that in actuality there weren't any, but there is enough loose-ends in FR (and D&D) lore to give us some past links, if we wanted to spin them that way.
As I recall, that thread was shot-down by folks on both sides of the edition wars. I think that's when I gave up trying to 'fix' 4e (although it was more the 1e/2e/3e people that were very obstinate about the 'wrongness' of what I was doing). I do recall Brian James trying to at least help in this regard (he has stated that parts of Abeir materialized on Toril before, during the ToT).
Funny... now that I think about it... this 'new Sundering' may have been my idea. 
I have always said that the Spellplague wasn't a solitary event - it was just a major battle in an on-going war (one that started at the dawn of time). Then again, I say a lot of things.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 23 Aug 2012 20:02:56 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36968 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2012 : 20:05:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
As for militaristic reptile race, Dragonborn were in the Realms before the Return of Abeir.
The dragonborn of 4E have absolutely nothing in common with the dragonborn of 3E, save for the name and some cosmetic similarities. And the dragonborn of 3E were a core race, anyway; I can't think of a single canon FR dragonborn from 3E.
So you could say there were dragonborn before the 4E era, but they are not the "militaristic reptile race" of 4E.
This is part of why I so badly hate the reuse of names. |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2012 : 20:26:33
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Tarlyn this might come as a shock to you, but the Realms in its entirety is a made up thing.
Now then, nobody is implying a grant history of Abeir exists in print for us all to use.*
There's a valid comparison to be made in terms of what's been in print for the Old Empires as opposed to Abeir. Likewise you can argue there's more value in some aspect of the Realms that's seen a lot of print vs. something that hasn't.
I've interpreted the comments (to the effect) of "Abeir has no history! Mulhorand/Unther do!" to imply Abeir came about just prior to the Spellplague. Within the context of the setting, this isn't true.
My comments addressed this by saying (more or less) Abeir is an established part of the Realms continuity and its existence goes back as far as Toril's. Thus, there exists a deep history to Abeir, we just haven't seen it yet.
*However we can't assume this information doesn't exist. A world bible might already exist and it may just be older then the idea of the Spellplague.
Also it's my understanding the Abeirian material was initially produced by Ed and--given his history--he likely overwrote and gave them more than they asked for, thus adding to the pile of information TSR and now WotC owns that hasn't seen the light of day. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Venger
Learned Scribe
USA
269 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2012 : 00:14:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
As for militaristic reptile race, Dragonborn were in the Realms before the Return of Abeir.
The dragonborn of 4E have absolutely nothing in common with the dragonborn of 3E, save for the name and some cosmetic similarities. And the dragonborn of 3E were a core race, anyway; I can't think of a single canon FR dragonborn from 3E.
So you could say there were dragonborn before the 4E era, but they are not the "militaristic reptile race" of 4E.
This is part of why I so badly hate the reuse of names.
Yeah, the 3E Dragonborn are members of other mortal races who, if I remember right, undergo some sort of ritual which transforms them into "Dragonborn", Half-Humanoid/Half-Dragon beings. They weren't their own species, nor did they reproduce as usual. They definitely weren't the 4E Dragonborn, which didn't exist until the advent of 4E.
It's a shame, though, that they didn't use this blurb from A Grand History of the Realms to introduce the Dragonborn.
quote:
1374 DR Year of Lightning Storms
Faerûn is beset by great lightning strikes the length and breadth of the continent.At least some of those lightning strikes mark the impact points of an unusual year-long rain of meteors. In a series of visions, Bahamut and Tiamat instruct their respective followers to seek out such sites, for each contains some form of draconic egg within.
I thought for sure that that would be the way they'd introduce the Dragonborn to the Forgotten Realms, but nope, the designers instead decided to fling a country of Dragonborn at the Faerunian map, and excised a pre-existing country and ALL the plotlines which were running through it at the same time.
Nevermind the silliness of Dragonborn who hate Dragons. It reminds me of an article about WotC I read years ago in which they mentioned how some cartoon producers pitched an idea for an animated cartoon based on Magic: The Gathering to the execs at WotC. The idea featured a pizza-swilling kid from our world who's a mage who travels to the world of Magic: The Gathering where, as they said in the pitch, "he teams up with a barbarian who, get this, hates magic." Yeah, they actually used the words "get this" in the pitch. They really thought they were being oh-so-clever by having a barbarian who hated magic. That's exactly how I picture the discussion about Tymanther and its Dragonborn going down.
"So there's a new country full of Dragonborn on Faerun but, get this... they hate dragons! Clever, huh?" 
Anyway, Tymanther, Akanul, and Returned Abeir would've been a whole lot easier to swallow if they'd made them a wholly separate continent which appeared in the Trackless Sea betweeen Faerun and Maztica or in the Great Sea west of Zakhara. Having them swap out with pre-existing areas on the planet was way, WAY too much, though! Much like 90% of the ideas which went into the 4E Realms, I have no idea how they ever thought that swapping out countries and continents on Toril would go over well.
Which reminds me, I have something to add to the Wish List: WotC making it official company policy that any game designer who creates a new race which has any of the following suffixes will be severely beaten with a rubber hose.
-born
-folk
-man/men
No more -born, -folk, or -man/men races, please. |
"Beware what you say when you speak of magic, wizard, or you shall see who has the greater power." |
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deserk
Learned Scribe
Norway
239 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2012 : 01:44:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Venger
I have something to add to the Wish List: WotC making it official company policy that any game designer who creates a new race which has any of the following suffixes will be severely beaten with a rubber hose.
-born
-folk
-man/men
No more -born, -folk, or -man/men races, please.
Got to add this to the list. Agree wholeheartedly. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4489 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2012 : 02:18:54
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I have no problem with a designer creating a -born, -folk, or -man Race so long as it has a significant element already established in the Realms. Dragon-kin, for example was a great example of someone illustrating pre-Spellplague Dragonborn. I don't see any real reason to have such a huge separation of peoples IMO. Or Catfolk, which I'm sure weren't specifically 'Realmsian' but I don't see why they couldn't be in the Realms as we already have Wemics.
Dragonborn hate dragons because they were repressed, slaughtered, and treatd as second class citizens at best by Dragons. So yea, I can easily see why they'd have a problem with them. And keep in mind that this ONLY refers to Dragonborn from Tymanther. |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator
E6 Options: Epic 6 Campaign |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1632 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2012 : 02:51:19
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Darn and I had a race called Folkmen already to submit ;p
Imagine Warforged minus weapons and armour and made from a pile of accordians and other folk music instruments. Instead of speaking to each other they sing Folk music songs. Another dream dashed :D |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2012 : 02:59:11
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But why would any race want to be a 'half' of anything, or even be considered some sort of 'spin-off'? I even find the term 'halfling' offensive (Hin don't use it).
You know what I like? When I am reading something from another setting and there is some new monster name, and it turns out to be an Orc (with maybe a few cosmetic differences... maybe). When an Orc is called an orc, its an automatic 'Tolkien derivation'. Another example - the Thomas Covenant series didn't use the term 'worgs' (wargs), it called its giant wolves 'Kresh'. Just a minor thing, but it makes a big difference to me. Even when something is very similar to somethng else, I want it to have a different name (obvious exceptions being dragons, giants, and any giantkin races like trolls and ogres). WoT has Ogre-like creatures called Ogier. Thats what I am talking about.
FR's half-dwarves are called D'Tarig, not 'half dwarves'. I woulkd love that kind of treatment for everything (in both D&D and FR). For instance, why would a lizardman call itself a lizard man? Wouldn't it have a word in its own language that means 'man' which they would use for themselves, and call humans that + their word for folk, or 'soft', or 'pink'?
This was my big problem with 'Returned Abeir' - no-one from there would be calling it that. When I pointed that out (on the WotC site) after the 4e FRCS came out, some designers even agreed with me that is is bizarre that none of them even considered that during the designing process. There was no real name for the damn continent.
The naming conventions are written from a very humanocentric viewpoint, which actually breaks the immersion factor. I have to agree with the above posters that everything should have its own name (plus the name others call - the Laerti/Asabi are a great example, as are the Tlincallis/Stingers and Thalud/Tomb Tappers).
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
Darn and I had a race called Folkmen already to submit ;p
Not as kewl as my Folkinmenborn. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 24 Aug 2012 03:00:50 |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2012 : 04:02:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
But why would any race want to be a 'half' of anything, or even be considered some sort of 'spin-off'? I even find the term 'halfling' offensive (Hin don't use it).
You know what I like? When I am reading something from another setting and there is some new monster name, and it turns out to be an Orc (with maybe a few cosmetic differences... maybe). When an Orc is called an orc, its an automatic 'Tolkien derivation'. Another example - the Thomas Covenant series didn't use the term 'worgs' (wargs), it called its giant wolves 'Kresh'. Just a minor thing, but it makes a big difference to me. Even when something is very similar to somethng else, I want it to have a different name (obvious exceptions being dragons, giants, and any giantkin races like trolls and ogres). WoT has Ogre-like creatures called Ogier. Thats what I am talking about.
FR's half-dwarves are called D'Tarig, not 'half dwarves'. I woulkd love that kind of treatment for everything (in both D&D and FR). For instance, why would a lizardman call itself a lizard man? Wouldn't it have a word in its own language that means 'man' which they would use for themselves, and call humans that + their word for folk, or 'soft', or 'pink'?
This was my big problem with 'Returned Abeir' - no-one from there would be calling it that. When I pointed that out (on the WotC site) after the 4e FRCS came out, some designers even agreed with me that is is bizarre that none of them even considered that during the designing process. There was no real name for the damn continent.
The naming conventions are written from a very humanocentric viewpoint, which actually breaks the immersion factor. I have to agree with the above posters that everything should have its own name (plus the name others call - the Laerti/Asabi are a great example, as are the Tlincallis/Stingers and Thalud/Tomb Tappers).
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
Darn and I had a race called Folkmen already to submit ;p
Not as kewl as my Folkinmenborn.
They ain't got nothin' on tpms Manbornfolkmen |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2012 : 04:02:54
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
But why would any race want to be a 'half' of anything, or even be considered some sort of 'spin-off'? I even find the term 'halfling' offensive (Hin don't use it).
You know what I like? When I am reading something from another setting and there is some new monster name, and it turns out to be an Orc (with maybe a few cosmetic differences... maybe). When an Orc is called an orc, its an automatic 'Tolkien derivation'. Another example - the Thomas Covenant series didn't use the term 'worgs' (wargs), it called its giant wolves 'Kresh'. Just a minor thing, but it makes a big difference to me. Even when something is very similar to somethng else, I want it to have a different name (obvious exceptions being dragons, giants, and any giantkin races like trolls and ogres). WoT has Ogre-like creatures called Ogier. Thats what I am talking about.
FR's half-dwarves are called D'Tarig, not 'half dwarves'. I woulkd love that kind of treatment for everything (in both D&D and FR). For instance, why would a lizardman call itself a lizard man? Wouldn't it have a word in its own language that means 'man' which they would use for themselves, and call humans that + their word for folk, or 'soft', or 'pink'?
This was my big problem with 'Returned Abeir' - no-one from there would be calling it that. When I pointed that out (on the WotC site) after the 4e FRCS came out, some designers even agreed with me that is is bizarre that none of them even considered that during the designing process. There was no real name for the damn continent.
The naming conventions are written from a very humanocentric viewpoint, which actually breaks the immersion factor. I have to agree with the above posters that everything should have its own name (plus the name others call - the Laerti/Asabi are a great example, as are the Tlincallis/Stingers and Thalud/Tomb Tappers).
[quote]Originally posted by Gyor
Darn and I had a race called Folkmen already to submit ;p
Not as kewl as my Folkinmenborn.
They ain't got nothin' on my Manbornfolkmen......just sayin'  |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Edited by - The Red Walker on 24 Aug 2012 04:04:26 |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1632 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2012 : 04:21:23
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I support being all the Gods back, but they don't have to have the same Portfolios so Torm whose awesome doesn't have to get demoted. Tyr can be God of Judges and serve Torm.
As for Mulhorand being Egypt like it not Egypt like, it is Egypt, Imaskar kidnapped people from Earth, Abeir is far from the only world to share a history with the realms.
Still Mulhorand evolved and if you compare Mulhorand and Ancient Egypt they have a very different dynamic. Mulhorand is alot more Culturally Cohesive. In fact Mulhorand reminds me of Quebec in how importent protecting culture and identity is.
One thing I love about Mulhorand is that the Fluff is flavoured Egyptian, its history and goverment built more like Isreal, but flavoured like Egypt.
I mean think about it, Mulhorand and Unther flipped the bible backwards. In the Bible Jews are enslaved and mistreated by Ancient Egypt and Bablyon, but in the end are divinely lead to the promise land after time in the desert. In Faerun its the Mulan who are kidnapped and,enslaved by a powerful empire. Moses...er Ra and the other Gods are sent by a higher power (In the case of the Mulan Ptah) to deliver thier,people. The oppossers are punished (Red Sea falling on ones head vs. Being driven into the Underdark). They must then journey through the desert to the promise land, where they create a new homeland. Mulhorand is Isreal and Unther is Judea. Its Egyptian and Babylonian sybolism, but Isreal's origin story, Realmsified. From there the story becames about being governed by Gods and the powerful Miracles. I mean to called it a Theocracy is an understatement, Theocracy's are government by Priests, this is government by ones Gods.
Then there's the eb and flow of the empires, Thay gets founded, Molhorgmi (I'll look up the name later), gets founded, Grey Orcs get introduced into Faerun because of them, and these aren't dumb, thuggish Orcs, at least not yet, they have massive amounts of powerful divine magic and are well organized and come from a powerful Orc empire themselves. The Orcgate wars occur wear Orc Gods battle Mulan Gods. I honestly don't remember that from Egyptian mythology.
So yes the Gods from Mulhorand and the symbols are are largely retained from Egypt without fudging, but for a good reason, it not a,copy, its a colony.
Mulhorand is also more technologically advanced then Egypt thanks to Thoth inventing things all the time. Magically more powerful too. Example Magical Contructs. Glorious Servitors were awesome, they'd make a great specialty.
Mulans have also interbreed heavily with Imaskar during thier captivity, so Imaskar is a cultural influence, abiet someo what repressed.
I do agree that Tymanther and Akanul have a long history, on Abeir.
I believe Mulhorand is referenced at times in the novels. None are set directly in Mulhorand, except briefly Ring of Winter early on. But Mulhorand does get mentioned, often as a Military threat, because while its good its expansionist, and powerful even without incarnate Gods.
I think the Wizards novel Darkvision maybe set thier too. Never read that one sadly.
This just the tip of the iceberg.
I do hope they at least keep access to Tymanther and Akanul, very interesting, they were just implemented destructively.
I'm looking forward to Mulhorand again.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2012 : 04:24:17
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And just like all the great kaiju (giant monster) movie critters, mine has a robotic adversary -
folkinmanbornforged
Not to be confused with the giant vampiric dire fiendish psuedo-natural demi-creature...
..of doom. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36968 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2012 : 04:57:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
I have no problem with a designer creating a -born, -folk, or -man Race so long as it has a significant element already established in the Realms. Dragon-kin, for example was a great example of someone illustrating pre-Spellplague Dragonborn. I don't see any real reason to have such a huge separation of peoples IMO. Or Catfolk, which I'm sure weren't specifically 'Realmsian' but I don't see why they couldn't be in the Realms as we already have Wemics.
Dragonborn hate dragons because they were repressed, slaughtered, and treatd as second class citizens at best by Dragons. So yea, I can easily see why they'd have a problem with them. And keep in mind that this ONLY refers to Dragonborn from Tymanther.
And yet, the Cult of the Dragon -- still around 100 years after Sammy's true death -- has had good luck recruiting dragonborn. I'm still waiting for an explanation on that one. |
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combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2012 : 05:03:28
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quote:
Originally posted by deserk
quote:
Originally posted by Venger
I have something to add to the Wish List: WotC making it official company policy that any game designer who creates a new race which has any of the following suffixes will be severely beaten with a rubber hose.
-born
-folk
-man/men
No more -born, -folk, or -man/men races, please.
Got to add this to the list. Agree wholeheartedly.
I think 'lizardfolk' should go back to being 'lizard men', darn it. :) I'm put off when I read stupid stuff like 'a lizardfolk guards the door.' It just doesn't work as a singular noun. That sounds horrid.
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YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2012 : 06:15:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And yet, the Cult of the Dragon -- still around 100 years after Sammy's true death -- has had good luck recruiting dragonborn. I'm still waiting for an explanation on that one.
Wooly: not all members of a given race act and think the same.
That was easy. Somebody give me another one.  |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2012 : 06:21:57
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quote:
Originally posted by combatmedic
quote:
Originally posted by deserk
quote:
Originally posted by Venger
I have something to add to the Wish List: WotC making it official company policy that any game designer who creates a new race which has any of the following suffixes will be severely beaten with a rubber hose.
-born
-folk
-man/men
No more -born, -folk, or -man/men races, please.
Got to add this to the list. Agree wholeheartedly.
I think 'lizardfolk' should go back to being 'lizard men', darn it. :) I'm put off when I read stupid stuff like 'a lizardfolk guards the door.' It just doesn't work as a singular noun. That sounds horrid.
Both Jon Schindehette and James Wyatt provide some interesting thoughts on that particular issue here and here.
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combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2012 : 06:52:06
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I find Wyatt's explanation of how 'lizardfolk' became the 'correct' in-game terminology to be unconvincing. I doubt that very many peasants (working class human-folks? LOL) dwelling near swamps, or adventurers looking for sunken treasure, are going to be so politically correct as to insist on the word 'lizardfolk' when referring to a single lizardman. Sorry, but it just sounds clumsy and goofy to me.
At least it's better than 'lizard-person.'
Brrrrr...
YMMV
Thanks for the links. I see a lot of good stuff in there, besides the annoying '-folk' suffix.
I'm in favor of kobolds as scaly little critters with horns and some canine features, but I know a lot of people are very fond of the dragon-like type that debuted with 3E. I'd say go with whichever view is most likely to please the largest number of customers.
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YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
Edited by - combatmedic on 24 Aug 2012 06:55:56 |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1288 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2012 : 07:52:26
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The support for 4e realms has been fantastic in Dragon Magazine and such, the developers have done great work there.
I don't mind Dragonborn staying in the realms. I no longer mind the spellplague, and I don't mind the timeline anymore.
What I want to see changed is all of the old lands brought back.
I also would like to see Abeir disappear off the Toril map completely. Leave the Dragonborn that is fine, just bring back Mulhorand and UNther, and maztica. make Abeir another world that can be reached by portals, but are well off of the Toril map.
For me now, Abeir is the worst thing about the 4e realms. I am hoping the sundering, is cutting Abeir out.
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A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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Likes/Dislikes of 4E Realms, Wish List for 5E
