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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Aug 2012 : 04:42:34
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I think the implementation will turn out not too dissimilar from how the Legend of the Five Rings CCG (and thus RPG) setting changes with the compiled results of their major official tournaments. There is a theme and overall arc with each set of cards. For instance in the Four Winds era, there were four competing imperial heirs maneuvering for the throne (or not really, it gets complicated) and some other external factors and enemies with a keen interest in this process.
After tournaments are over, the results are decided based on the actual games played at tournament. If players playing one faction lose more than others, then that faction's fortunes took a turn for the worst in the meta-plot of the setting for that generation. In the example above, one heir ended up on the throne, another die in the line of duty, two others accepted the winner, but one declared himself Shogun, complicating matters for later expansions.
Usually a new set of cards (an edition really) will have a changing of the guards to the next generation of in-setting characters and factions. The new young emperor is now older, his allies are older statesmen. New heroes arise to defend the empire against new enemies or resurgent menaces.
I don't think the changes will be as drastic or vital to the setting with this Living Realms system. I do expect some status quo to shift somewhat on a regional level with each arc, which may be take more than an adventure. It could be a season or two of adventures, or perhaps an adventure path. I see regions going about their own arcs, perhaps with some intersection and overlap, like how the LFR was organized along regions.
For instance, in the 3e era, an ideal example situation would be the Unther-Mulhorand war. A series of adventures puts players into the thick of the war effort. During the adventures some game groups side with Free Unther, some with Mulhorand, others with Threskel or with Chessenta or with Thay. GMs and Players fill out forms sent to LFR or WotC or are observed in LFR convention play. Variables are tallied up, and some factions gain while others lose based on the actual play results. When the new Old Empires book comes out, the effects are reflected in the write-ups.
This is all speculation on my part, but I think this is going to be how they make players feel like they are affecting the setting with their play through of the modules. |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2012 : 04:58:47
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I always did think that the way L5R handled things was an interesting way of going about it. Of course, I stopped playing the L5R RPG after I think second edition, and I was never into the card game, so I didn't get to see it over a long period of time, but I still think it's a really interesting way of melding the two genres.
Of course, it also meant it perennially screwed the Dragon Clan, since they were always the "jack of all trades, master of none" in the CCG, and would get pounded by all of the other, more specialized, clans. But no system is perfect. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2012 : 05:34:50
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hidden Lord
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Folks, can we steer clear of yet another round of the edition wars? We've hashed out all these arguments already, approximately 314,572.27 times on this site alone.
May Candlekeep scribes please discuss whichever aspect of the Realms they wish, within those boundaries established by the Code of Conduct?
That's fine. As it is, largely, how most of the more productive edition-discussions here at Candlekeep, have progressed.
What's become tiresome, has been the needless debates of "this edition" versus "that edition."
We really don't need to hash over that again. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Hidden Lord
Learned Scribe
148 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2012 : 05:59:40
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by The Hidden Lord
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Folks, can we steer clear of yet another round of the edition wars? We've hashed out all these arguments already, approximately 314,572.27 times on this site alone.
May Candlekeep scribes please discuss whichever aspect of the Realms they wish, within those boundaries established by the Code of Conduct?
That's fine. As it is, largely, how most of the more productive edition-discussions here at Candlekeep, have progressed.
What's become tiresome, has been the needless debates of "this edition" versus "that edition."
We really don't need to hash over that again.
May those who have not discussed these issues please do so, or is Candlekeep only for those that have been with the site for a long time?
Also, is it ok to discuss the Realms, or one's views of the Realms and the rules editions associated with the Realms, with others, even if other folks have had discussions on similar topics before? |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2012 : 06:03:58
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Mearls said (in the VIDEO, 37:31) "We're gonna bring the Realms to life by coordinating our efforts in terms of visual elements, the writing, bringing everything together in a way that's never been attempted in the history of D&D."
Sounds like a tall order, given the amount of Realms material that's been published already. Hope they pull it off. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 17 Aug 2012 06:06:11 |
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The Hidden Lord
Learned Scribe
148 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2012 : 06:07:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
Mearls said (in the VIDEO, 37:31) "We're gonna bring the Realms to life by coordinating our efforts in terms of visual elements, the writing, bringing everything together in a way that's never been attempted in the history of D&D."
Sounds like a tall order, given the amount of Realms material that's been published already. Hope they pull it off.
Thanks for the link, cool dude! |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2012 : 06:12:01
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hidden Lord
Thanks for the link, cool dude!
No problemo.
Note that Ed starts talking not soon after the time point I listed in my last post. As you'll see in the video, looks like Ed and the other authors for The Sundering six part novel series met back in November to hash things out and talk about what the Realms will be like in the wake of "all that chaos."
I liked seeing the video montage of the authors actually working together. Kinda neat, that.
Looks like WotC is serious about putting the iconic characters into the background and advancing the actions of people's campaigns to the fore, such that what we do has an effect on the Realms instead of what the iconics do.
"Your characters will determine the unfolding tapestry of the Forgotten Realms. Shaping the Realms is your job now." --Mearls, 56:02
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Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 17 Aug 2012 06:34:08 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2012 : 08:07:06
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hidden Lord
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by The Hidden Lord
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Folks, can we steer clear of yet another round of the edition wars? We've hashed out all these arguments already, approximately 314,572.27 times on this site alone.
May Candlekeep scribes please discuss whichever aspect of the Realms they wish, within those boundaries established by the Code of Conduct?
That's fine. As it is, largely, how most of the more productive edition-discussions here at Candlekeep, have progressed.
What's become tiresome, has been the needless debates of "this edition" versus "that edition."
We really don't need to hash over that again.
May those who have not discussed these issues please do so, or is Candlekeep only for those that have been with the site for a long time?
You're free to discuss whatever Realms-related issues you like, just so long as you adhere to the dictates of the Code of Conduct, and remember that Candlekeep is a place for fans of ALL editions of the setting. Endlessly criticising "this" or "that" decision in incorporated into any of the editions, or constantly rattling on about another's scribes feelings re: some particular rules-related element, is rarely conducive to the ongoing discussion as a whole. So try to steer clear of that.
quote:
Also, is it ok to discuss the Realms, or one's views of the Realms and the rules editions associated with the Realms, with others, even if other folks have had discussions on similar topics before?
Of course. Just so long as you remember what I've said above. Keep it positive, keep it constructive, and keep it respectful. That's all we ask. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 17 Aug 2012 08:09:51 |
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Aryalómë
Senior Scribe
USA
666 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 04:41:04
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| Is it just me, or does anyone else want a return to more "old-school"/"classic" fantasy artwork? |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 05:00:34
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| Sounds good to me. Heck, I'll take some black and white in pencil or ink too. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 05:01:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Aryalómë
Is it just me, or does anyone else want a return to more "old-school"/"classic" fantasy artwork?
Yeah, I do-- although you and I may not be thinking of the same stuff when we write 'classic' or 'old school.'
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YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
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combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 05:02:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
Sounds good to me. Heck, I'll take some black and white in pencil or ink too.
Yeah, black and white art definitely has its place!
I would like to see more of it in D&D books.
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YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36910 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 05:17:42
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quote:
Originally posted by combatmedic
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
Sounds good to me. Heck, I'll take some black and white in pencil or ink too.
Yeah, black and white art definitely has its place!
I would like to see more of it in D&D books.
One of my all-time fave D&D illustrations was a black-and-white ink drawing in the 2E PHB.
And who can forget the wonderful interior art of Valerie Valusek? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 06 Sep 2012 05:19:23 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 06:43:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
One of my all-time fave D&D illustrations was a black-and-white ink drawing in the 2E PHB.
Some of my favorite black and white work was done in SSI's* Creature Collection books.
Those monsters just dripped deadly awesome and they were all ink or pencil drawings.
To anyone at WotC who might be listening: half the reason I use a monster is the artwork for it. I like being able to show my players an awesome picture of what they're facing before getting down to combat.
*Sword and Sorcery Studios |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 13:22:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
Sounds good to me. Heck, I'll take some black and white in pencil or ink too.
Most every creature you might meet in the underdark...or heck in a cave complex of anykind should have a black/white/grey base...thats what you would see |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
497 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 14:43:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Oohh! Can we get Larry Elmore back? I LOVED his work!
Elmore is undoubtedly the Master, but Clyde Caldwell is awesome, too. And Jeff Butler. And Jeff Easley. I would also add Keith Parkinson, but sadly, he will no longer be able to grace us with his truly remarkable talent. 
Brom also did some fine pieces, mostly for Dark Sun. All of these gents would only add to the quality of any work Wizbro puts out.
- OMH |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36910 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 15:07:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Oohh! Can we get Larry Elmore back? I LOVED his work!
Elmore is undoubtedly the Master, but Clyde Caldwell is awesome, too. And Jeff Butler. And Jeff Easley. I would also add Keith Parkinson, but sadly, he will no longer be able to grace us with his truly remarkable talent.
Brom also did some fine pieces, mostly for Dark Sun. All of these gents would only add to the quality of any work Wizbro puts out.
- OMH
I'm a huge fan of Elmore, and I consider the era where he, Caldwell, and Easley were doing most TSR art to be the high point of D&D art.
That said... I still have a habit, whenever I see a piece of Caldwell art, of trying to locate the round red gemstone.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 21:14:43
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So long as we don't get the comic-bookish art of Eberron in FR. There were a few instances of it, and it was jarring. I like it in EB, because I feel it has the correct 'vibe', but it isn't right for FR, IMHO.
Also, whoever the artist was in the UE book. Whoever did those angler-fish Star Elves needs to go away (Guantanamo Bay?) How anyone approved that 'art' is beyond me.
Musta been the same guy who approved the 4e campaign map. 
EDIT: Todd Lockwood forever.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 06 Sep 2012 21:15:47 |
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Aryalómë
Senior Scribe
USA
666 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 21:19:19
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| I'm mostly talking about the artwork in 2e. It was the best. Great work. A lot of the artwork in The Complete Book of Elves, Moonshaes, Elves of Evermeet, Dragon Lance, etc was fantastic (no pun intended). |
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Mr Dark
Seeker
50 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 21:39:00
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| The 2e era artwork was,IMNSHO, was the best artwork the game saw. I would love to see some of those old artists back! |
Canon stops where the table begins. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 01:38:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Aryalómë
Is it just me, or does anyone else want a return to more "old-school"/"classic" fantasy artwork?
Not I. I do like the "modern" artwork. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 01:42:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
So long as we don't get the comic-bookish art of Eberron in FR. There were a few instances of it, and it was jarring. I like it in EB, because I feel it has the correct 'vibe', but it isn't right for FR, IMHO.
Comic-bookish? I dunno. I haven't yet seen an Eberron art that resembles even remotely of comic books. Besides, it's supposed to be steampunkish, and so far, they more or less have that vibe. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 02:41:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
So long as we don't get the comic-bookish art of Eberron in FR. There were a few instances of it, and it was jarring. I like it in EB, because I feel it has the correct 'vibe', but it isn't right for FR, IMHO.
Comic-bookish? I dunno. I haven't yet seen an Eberron art that resembles even remotely of comic books. Besides, it's supposed to be steampunkish, and so far, they more or less have that vibe.
I'm assuming Markus is referring to the earlier 3e sourcebooks for EBERRON, which relied heavily on noir-styled comic book-like frames/panels in their imagery of setting elements. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 02:47:46
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Yeah - that is what I am talking about. It was good to set the tone for EB, but all wrong for FR. I think I saw a couple of examples of a similar style (not the insets) in a few 3e FR books, but maybe it was some of the core books I am thinking of.
Not all Eberron art was bad - some of it was rather excellent. I prefer most of 3e's art to earlier stuff. I loved 1e/2e artwork at the time, but I think its a bit dated now. Not a big fan of 'retro'.
I just get confused when someone calls a warforged a dragon (and no, they will never live that one down).  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 07 Sep 2012 02:49:53 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 03:30:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I just get confused when someone calls a warforged a dragon...
Why would one do that? Their nature and what constitutes their very being is way different. Warforged are living constructs, but constructs nonetheless, even if some authors tried to "humanize" them. Dragons are living, natural beings. And warforged don't breathe fire. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
497 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 04:23:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Aryalómë
Is it just me, or does anyone else want a return to more "old-school"/"classic" fantasy artwork?
Not I. I do like the "modern" artwork.
One of the things that I had very few complaints about in 4th Edition was the artwork. It wasn't up to the Elmore Standard, no, but it was not bad, by any means. Especially after you compare it to 'Mialee' - type art from 3rd Edition (ugh).
- OMH |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36910 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 05:44:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I just get confused when someone calls a warforged a dragon...
Why would one do that? Their nature and what constitutes their very being is way different. Warforged are living constructs, but constructs nonetheless, even if some authors tried to "humanize" them. Dragons are living, natural beings. And warforged don't breathe fire.
He's referring to artwork in the Grand History of the Realms, where a pic of a warforged was identified as a dragon. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 21:37:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Aryalómë
Is it just me, or does anyone else want a return to more "old-school"/"classic" fantasy artwork?
Not I. When I see the hand-drawn figures in the OD&D modules, I think of the "Saturday TV Funhouse" animated segments on the TV variety show Saturday Night Live. The early line art looks like "Ambiguously Gay Duo" and stuff!
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"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 21:39:07
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quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
quote:
Originally posted by Aryalómë
Is it just me, or does anyone else want a return to more "old-school"/"classic" fantasy artwork?
Not I. When I see the hand-drawn figures in the OD&D modules, I think of the "Saturday TV Funhouse" animated segments on the TV variety show Saturday Night Live. The early line art looks like "Ambiguously Gay Duo" and stuff!
Not that there's anything wrong with that. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Forgotten Realms? NDA (and then… not so much)
