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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Aug 2012 : 18:36:46
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Time is real, but not the way people think. Its just another dimension. It doesn't move, our consciousness moves through it.
I've believed something along these lines for the past ten years or so, and not so long ago Steven Hawkins came to the same conclusions. He should have just asked me and saved himself some time. 
Once you realize this, then dozens of other 'paranormal' phenomena starts to make sense. It almost becomes a 'theory of everything' in the paranormal world.
We are 'aware' of what our very limited senses are able to translate to us. We actually don't know anything - our sensual information is translated through our brains to us, based on past experiences and knowledge. And it lies... a lot (there are several different types of phenomena associated with this). There are no 'solids' or liquids', etc - those are states of how densely packed the molecules are together. We (artificially) create such categories, because thats how our (limited) perceptions see them. Its like the story of the Blind men and the elephant, except we are all the 'blind men'. In reality, the whole universe around us is composed of innumerable numbers of particles - particles we cannot see - and fields of energy (which we also cannot see). So what we 'see' (and hear, and feel, etc) is an illusion - it is how I brain translated the information to us.
If we were able to truly 'see' the world around us, it would be like Neo seeing the world for the first time at the end of The Matrix. Now we just have to wonder, who or what is able to truly see? How much more aware is our subconsious then our conscience? Could déjà vu simply be an atrophied ability to 'see' through the dimension of time? Have we lost it, while others still have it?
In Buddhism, they have a saying that goes something like this: When one first studies Zen, one realizes they know very little. After a long time, one achieves understanding. Toward the end of the road one receives enlightenment, and realizes that they know nothing at all.
A man is judged 'wise' not by how much he knows, but how much he understands how little he knows. Time might be one of those things we don't see, because we can't handle it. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 08 Aug 2012 04:15:01 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2012 : 21:23:24
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Time doesn't exist? That strikes me as a very narrow view. Time is not simply a measurement, it is the transition of existance from one moment to another. All time exists as both a single point (the origin of time, if you will), and as branches from that point. Time-travel, while difficult, is (in theory) not beyond the scope of possibility. One would simply have to find the point or moment one wished to move to, and then proceed along it. It flows, much like a river, and one can swim either with it- as we do in our normal lives- or against it, as in going into the past. So although most people view time simply as a measure for days, weeks, etc, it is far more than that. It is not linear, which is where most people miss the point, so to speak.
Anywho, I think there SHOULD be a deity of time. Mystryl was the nominal one until her "death", and Labelas has that aspect for elves, but there really is not one for the overseeing of time as a concept. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4215 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2012 : 22:38:25
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I love when people attack others views with words like "narrow" as if I might be unenlightened.
Any view that says "time branches from a single point" is unproven and only theory.
It isn't narrow...it is choice to say that Time doesn't "flow" or anything like that. It is only NOW...and there isn't a river of time behind me or before me. Nobody can prove me wrong either...find me the science paper that PROVES that time exists and I will gladly and gracefuly accept that I'm wrong.
And as for something being 3D it is in fact A FACT that length, height, weight, width and etc. are also abstract units of measure. I even said so...you can measure the space...but what you are measuring with is an abstract and not a THING at all.
You can't pick up length...you can't pick up weight...
In fact...weight is itself a flawed unit of measure because it depends on gravitational variation...what I "weigh" on earth is not what I weigh in space, on mars or on Jupiter.
Abstracts are just that...weight especially depends entirely on gravity and so is completely abstract as it depends on numerous variables...we won't even get into the Higgs theory! |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3813 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2012 : 02:14:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
[...]
And as for something being 3D it is in fact A FACT that length, height, weight, width and etc. are also abstract units of measure. I even said so...you can measure the space...but what you are measuring with is an abstract and not a THING at all.
You can't pick up length...you can't pick up weight...
In fact...weight is itself a flawed unit of measure because it depends on gravitational variation...what I "weigh" on earth is not what I weigh in space, on mars or on Jupiter.
Abstracts are just that...weight especially depends entirely on gravity and so is completely abstract as it depends on numerous variables...we won't even get into the Higgs theory!
Space, time etc.. are physical quantities, measurable concepts. They do not coincide with their units of measure, which are conventional items assumed to be the standard terms of comparison. So, an object occupies space, it has an extension over one or more of the 3(?) dimensions and this is what can be measured: the extension over one of the dimensions, which is length and it seems to be a THING to me, as it is a meter (what I'm measuring with). Something analogous could be said for time. You could even treat time as a coordinate in the (4-dimensional?)extent where things are and happen, which would be kinda similar to the label example I made, and measure the extension of a succession of events over this dimension. Sure, it looks way more abstract but it has concrete reflections (check below) (PS: I apologize about writing ''weight'' in my previous post. I meant mass. However weight would be one of those ''measurable concepts'' as well, being a force that planets apply on objects)
I get your point that these are models built to explain what happens and that we can't ''prove'' with absolute certainty such models and that what they predict or express exists. However they must have a concrete reflection on what happens in reality in order to accomplish what they're made for. I mean, there's tech based on them, and it works, so such models can't be so wrong or abstract (heck, the GPS works fine taking in account 2 effects of time dilation...).
That said, from a ''what really exists and what doesn't'' PoV we could spend endless hours to discuss and get nowhere, but at some point you have to get practical and use concepts that can allow to explain and predict how processes evolve. You see something happening, choose the parameters to describe it and then work on them. Lets take your example of the movement of the Sun and lets focus on time. You said it is a measure of said movement, but what does it measure, exactly? You say that at some instant the Sun occupies a position in a 3 dimensional space, then at another instant it occupies a different one and so on, so you're measuring the succession of events which leads to the change of position... Basically, you're splitting the whole process of the movement of the Sun in ''labeled'' parts, and the ordered succession of these parts is time. So, in this practical sense, time can be the developing itself of processes, and what you measure in seconds is the ''extension'' of such succession in the space-time (the extent where things happens). Maybe it's not what you mean for time (which, honestly, I didn't understand) but if you see it from this PoV, it is something ''concrete''.
EDIT: Ok, this is getting completely out of topic, and I apologize about it. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 08 Aug 2012 02:31:59 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2012 : 04:32:26
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Some great Matrix quotes...
Morpheus: If real is what you can feel, smell, taste and see, then 'real' is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain.
Spoon boy: Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth.
Neo: What truth?
Spoon boy: There is no spoon.
Neo: There is no spoon?
Spoon boy: Then you'll see, that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself.
That little boy is so Zen he doesn't even believe in Zen. I think he was a Red Wizard.
Anyhow, discussing physics, the universe, paranormal and temporal phenomena, etc, all fall under the same category as deities in D&D and FR - they're not meant for our understanding. If the fundamental forces themselves have sentience, are they not 'gods'? And do they pray to something higher?
I think becoming a god is more along the lines of wisdom - thats where the power comes from. Once you understand how the universe truly works, then you can manipulate those forces. Call it 'science', or call it 'magic' - its really all just the same thing. Ergo (to steer this back on-topic), if one was to assume time exists, and time itself is sentient, then time itself is a god - there is no need for a 'deity of time'. Chronos from Greek mythology wasn't a god of time - he was time itself. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 08 Aug 2012 04:34:33 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2012 : 10:06:43
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Why would it matter if a god's portfolio is measurable or not? Many of them are not. Heck, the very concept that embodies the overgod is not quantifiable (Balance).
And, MT, yes, he's a Red Wizard. He's Marek Rymut before he got addicted to sweets and became a fat man. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3813 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2012 : 10:29:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Anyhow, discussing physics, the universe, paranormal and temporal phenomena, etc, all fall under the same category as deities in D&D and FR - they're not meant for our understanding. If the fundamental forces themselves have sentience, are they not 'gods'? And do they pray to something higher?
I think becoming a god is more along the lines of wisdom - thats where the power comes from. Once you understand how the universe truly works, then you can manipulate those forces. Call it 'science', or call it 'magic' - its really all just the same thing. Ergo (to steer this back on-topic), if one was to assume time exists, and time itself is sentient, then time itself is a god - there is no need for a 'deity of time'. Chronos from Greek mythology wasn't a god of time - he was time itself.
Heh, I disagree. Things like that have been said in the past about phenomena that appeared extremely abstract and out of the reach of mankind, but now many of such things are kinda mundane. Just give it time (a lot, I recognize it...).
Also, what makes you think that time is sentient? About the god of time, well what you say about time is kinda true for other deities as well, since a god can be seen as concepts and ideas ''embodied''.
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Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 08 Aug 2012 10:30:20 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36910 Posts |
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Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2012 : 16:15:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
You know, I think it's time we got back to the original topic...
Where is the rim-shot smiley |
I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches won’t fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4215 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2012 : 20:43:59
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A God of Time should indeed exist in a world in which time-travel can happen...
Such a God would have to be in charge of making sure time did not change however...so unlike other gods, a god of Time would have to be aware (and capable of operating) at all times. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2012 : 21:42:01
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Me thinks such a portfolio should be held by the Overgod of a sphere - it gives too much power to single deity over the others.
The same might be said of Mystra.
Conversely, instead of the Overgod of the sphere (Ao), have it 'higher' then that even - one of those uber-primordials (the beings I have dubbed 'Ordials' in other threads, and coincides with Ed's and OD&D's concept of 'watching Gods'). I think having control of time should be one of the most basic pillars the universe is built upon, and there has to be some layer that even the gods (deities, primordials, etc) can't interfere with. Tamper, perhaps, but not change wholesale. If they could just keep going back and getting 'do-overs', why wouldn't they?
Unfortunately, this is one of those problematic spots where D&D should overrule logic. Its perfectly logical to have such a deity, but it messes with way too much for something like that to be built into a set of fantasy game rules (which is why I suggested above to place it on a tier far above one that PCs could interact with). I am against PCs having access to everything (I'm old-school), and its one of the few things I found fault with in 3e. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 08 Aug 2012 21:42:42 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4215 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2012 : 22:05:34
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| If Mystra were the god of time...she would know what time she was going to be influenced by anything and everything (such as being attacked)...and that very knowledge would make it impossible for her not to change the flow of the future because she would sense she was attacked then and change time in the past to reflect it. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2012 : 07:15:55
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| Time per se, I think, is not as important to mortal beings as fate is. If we look in a variety of pantheons, we will find deities of fate time and again - time, on the other hand, not so much. Time itself would only become important if it would become accessible as medium (for travel, for instance). So the temporal aspect of destiny would have its own deity (deities) very likely whereas the more technical aspect of time itself often would be subsumed under the portfolio of a deity of magic or art/technology. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2012 : 23:01:57
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That was not meant as an attack, so please don't misinterpret. By "narrow view", I meant simply that- that it is a definition that is very narrow in scope and does not take into account that time does, indeed "flow" through a succession of events. Time is not simply "now", because if it was, now would cease to exist as soon as time progressed beyond that instant. It doesn't. How do we know this? Human memory, for one thing. We can remember any event in our past because it happened at a certain moment or set of moments in time. That memory is a (semi)permanent record that the event occured, and proves that that moment existed. We can say the same of any event that has ever been video-recorded, written of, or any other method of keeping track of events. They happened at different points IN TIME, and we have means of recording when those events occured. Time as a concept may be mathematically difficult to prove, but the very fact that we can imagine and attempt to understand it at all shows that it is "real".
MT, you seem to have an idea of time that is very much in keeping with some of the esoteric studies I've done on the subject. If people only knew just how fluid and elastic time really is.... This is, however, another reason I think the FR should have a deity of time. It IS like a "river" or perhaps like the tides of the ocean- the water that flows in is not always the same water that flowed out previously, but it returns to the same point over and over again. Time is cyclic, and the universe itself points to this. A deity of time would understand this, and govern that process. And I also remember the temporal plane you mentioned in Planescape- there was, in fact, a "river of time" that one could use for time-travel into any point of existence there. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe
485 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2012 : 17:29:51
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Time does exist and can be affected. Checkout a certain Mr Einstein's theory of relativity.
As for time in the realms, well I don't think a god should have power over it, let Ao have it. I'm not against time travelling spells though. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2012 : 18:44:17
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Ao, or someone higher. In Marvel comics The Beyonder is a being so insanely powerful that he over-powered all of the Marvel Universe's cosmic beings including eternity - the very embodiment of the universe itself. That means he is just as powerful as everything within a single universe combined (which gets explained at some point, but that's another story).
When he goes to kill Dr.Doom, he realizes he can't. The Doom he meets has no knowledge of him, yet he has met Doom in the past (which is why he hated him). That means Doom will meet the past version of the Beyonder at some point in Doom's own future, so the Beyonder's hands were tied - he could not create a time paradox around his own actions.
In D&D terms, The Beyonder is way more powerful then Ao; he is at least on-par with Ao's boss, and probably higher. And the bottom line was, even he could not 'muck with time'. Travel through it, yes. Make major changes that would affect himself, NO. I often find myself falling back on Marvel-lore to fill gaps in D&D lore because they have run into many of the 'cosmic' problems/incongruities already. Time is obviously one of the most basic forces/planes that the universe is built upon.
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
MT, you seem to have an idea of time that is very much in keeping with some of the esoteric studies I've done on the subject. If people only knew just how fluid and elastic time really is.... This is, however, another reason I think the FR should have a deity of time. It IS like a "river" or perhaps like the tides of the ocean- the water that flows in is not always the same water that flowed out previously, but it returns to the same point over and over again. Time is cyclic, and the universe itself points to this. A deity of time would understand this, and govern that process. And I also remember the temporal plane you mentioned in Planescape- there was, in fact, a "river of time" that one could use for time-travel into any point of existence there.
Not only is it a river, it is a winding river where the loops some times come quite close to each other.
Almost like an energy/sine wave.
If you understand how radio waves work, you can kinda picture how time works (and how some very weird crap can happen occasionally). Our conscience mind is only able to handle looking at a single spot on the wave, whereas our subconscious can travel up-and-down the path (meeting other subconsciences).
I suppose you have studied Edgar Cayce as well? 
Scientists study Einstein and Hawkins. Paranormalists study Edgar Cayce and others. Its only when you study both do you realize just how much they agree with each other. The only difference between science and magic is that with science you have the math equation. 'Magic' is nothing more then scientific theory (where you know something works a certain way, but you haven't figured out its equation yet).
Its all about the math. And the ancients were much better at math then we. How many of our modern sciences have grown out of the teachings of the 'magi'? Chemistry from Alchemy. Astronomy from Astrology. Ask any physicist and he tell you "the answers to all the mysteries of the universe lie in the stars".
Hmph... seems to me I've heard of other wisemen 'following the stars'.
In D&D/FR science is like the Weave, and magic is like the Shadoweave. Magic is all the 'spaces between the knowledge' where the mysteries still lie.
Anyhow, I've digressed quite a bit from the OT - sorry. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 11 Aug 2012 18:46:36 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2012 : 22:50:48
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My, my! You and I DO think alike! I've not "studied" Cayce, per se, but I'm somewhat familiar with his work. Most of my delving into the esoteric realm has been self-taught and/or through some very personal experiences with the subject. That "Big Bang" they talk about was really more like pop-corn popping..... But I digress. I like the way you tie the cosmologies together, and it's pretty consistant- something that WotC could use a bit more of in that area, I think.
Also- considering your ideas about science and magic- re-read the second line in my siggy- that says it all! (And ties in nicely with your use of Marvel-verse notions, I might add!!) |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4215 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2012 : 00:30:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus
Time does exist and can be affected. Checkout a certain Mr Einstein's theory of relativity.
As for time in the realms, well I don't think a god should have power over it, let Ao have it. I'm not against time travelling spells though.
Einstein has been proven "not quite right" on several levels. A theory is simply an idea how things work...and as of yet, nothing has been even close to beginning real work on proving or disproving Einstein's ideas on time because we don't have the technology yet.
I agree with you that a god shouldn't have any power over time...it is better for there to be a God "Watchdog" maybe over time; but not the true controller. "Guardian" of time would be best. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Aravine
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2012 : 00:38:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus
Time does exist and can be affected. Checkout a certain Mr Einstein's theory of relativity.
As for time in the realms, well I don't think a god should have power over it, let Ao have it. I'm not against time travelling spells though.
Einstein has been proven "not quite right" on several levels. A theory is simply an idea how things work...and as of yet, nothing has been even close to beginning real work on proving or disproving Einstein's ideas on time because we don't have the technology yet.
I agree with you that a god shouldn't have any power over time...it is better for there to be a God "Watchdog" maybe over time; but not the true controller. "Guardian" of time would be best.
Just thought I'd point something out. Gravity ois also a "theory". it is also universally accepted |
The brave don't live forever,the cautious don't live at all |
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drkissinger1
Acolyte
USA
32 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2012 : 01:19:17
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| To hold dominion over time is, in my opinion, too much power for any FR-style god to possess. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3813 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2012 : 01:35:23
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quote:
Einstein has been proven "not quite right" on several levels. A theory is simply an idea how things work...and as of yet, nothing has been even close to beginning real work on proving or disproving Einstein's ideas on time because we don't have the technology yet.
Relativity works well enough to be usable in tech, considering that -for example- the GPS calculation of the position uses time corrected with two time dilation effects, both of which derive from said theory (and GPS does its job).
That isn't to say that it is axiomatically true, but it works for many applications. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4215 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2012 : 03:17:26
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Gravity is a theory that is accepted because we haven't come to understand fully the tiniest building blocks of reality and how they truly interact.
For example: why one "element" has greater mass than another, but not always greater density.
Hells, we don't even know really why things stick together beyond our primitive grasp of the four forces. Some folks shout "Gravity!" while others are starting to shout "Slow Fusion" or "Charged Magnetism" or whatever.
Our use of time as a unit of measure isn't even accurate anyway because we haven't learned how to understand how large celestial bodies influence what we use as a unit of measure...and THAT is why we have to fix our time devices (even our "second" isn't accurate).
I'm sorry for the side-track...sometimes I can't shut my mouth over something that I'm passionate about. I promise to keep my trap shut now! 
For the Forgotten Realms though, I LOVE having characters fiddle with time by time travel!
The campaign I ran longest had a large dose of this sort of action, and I think the Realms hit dead on when they wouldn't allow magical items through time.
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The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2012 : 06:44:11
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Time is a matter of perception. And perception is encompassed by the realm of Psionics. Could the God of Psionics, Aupensser, be the God of Time as well? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Kno
Senior Scribe
452 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2012 : 09:18:39
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| perception is encompassed by Helm |
z455t |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2012 : 22:09:41
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uhg... can you guys stop talking about cool stuff that freelance game designers may or may not be working on?
Kidding. I have some fun stuff on this topic that we can discuss shortly. Nothing that will make you want to pull your nether-hair out. |
Edited by - Matt James on 14 Aug 2012 22:10:32 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2012 : 22:21:21
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Talking about stuff displays an interest in said subject matter amongst the fanbase, which justifies anything you may be working on. 
Also, what we are doing is similar to what the 'crunch guys' have to do when working on fantasy games. 'Magic' falls apart in an RPG or story if it is inconsistent - it needs to have its own set of rules and logic (Harry Potter being one of the worst examples of an inconsistent system... despite my love for the books). This thread just digs a bit deeper into the 'guts' of D&D (into the theoretical 'over-cosmology').
As for the subject, I get the idea that mortals have something even the gods do not possess (a common fantasy trope). Their 'free will' (or whatever) gives them the ability to override prophesy (pre-destination) and create their own path. I think this somehow allows mortals to 'mess with' time a little bit more then deities (it could just come down to gods being more cautious - they are connected to too many things on too many levels for continuity-changes to NOT affect them). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3813 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2012 : 22:25:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Gravity is a theory that is accepted because we haven't come to understand fully the tiniest building blocks of reality and how they truly interact.
For example: why one "element" has greater mass than another, but not always greater density.
Hells, we don't even know really why things stick together beyond our primitive grasp of the four forces. Some folks shout "Gravity!" while others are starting to shout "Slow Fusion" or "Charged Magnetism" or whatever.
Our use of time as a unit of measure isn't even accurate anyway because we haven't learned how to understand how large celestial bodies influence what we use as a unit of measure...and THAT is why we have to fix our time devices (even our "second" isn't accurate).
I'm sorry for the side-track...sometimes I can't shut my mouth over something that I'm passionate about. I promise to keep my trap shut now!
I have some replies, but this scroll isn't the place for them. So, would you mind if I sent you a PM? |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2012 : 07:44:03
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Yes. I'd hate to think designers are all working on things we don't like to discuss.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Why isn't there a current and official deity of...
