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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Jun 2012 : 16:36:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Caolin
Honestly, this is a losing battle. Print books are going to be relegated to a niche market like vinyl. Sure vinyl has seen a resurgence in popularity among "purists", but it still only represents a small portion of music sales. At some point in time you will see the price of eBooks drop below that of print and that will be the death knell mass printing of books...at least for non-educational books.
And to be quite frank I welcome that day. We will get reasonably priced eBooks and a lot less tress will have to be cut down.
Using vinyl is a poor comparison. In that example the quality of the product (sound) is taken into consideration. With the e-book trend the quality should give the printed side the advantage.
Also, MOST books offered through Barnes and Noble ARE slightly cheaper in the e-format. |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
Try Audible and Get 2 Free Audio Books! https://amzn.to/2IgBede |
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Aulduron
Learned Scribe
USA
343 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2012 : 18:36:12
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quote:
Print books are going to be relegated to a niche market like vinyl.
Hopefully, I'll be dead and gone by that time. |
"Those with talent become wizards, Those without talent spend their lives praying for it"
-Procopio Septus |
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Tanthalas
Senior Scribe
Portugal
508 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2012 : 18:44:08
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quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
You know what you could do, and continue to get hardcopy novels? Become a RAS fan. His stuff sells like hotcakes, and WOTC is certainly gonna keep releasing his stuff in paper book form for some time to come! 
Yeah, but I want to read RAS novels and everyone else as a hard copy, not just RAS. |
Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage". |
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
769 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2012 : 22:58:22
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quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
quote:
Originally posted by Caolin
Honestly, this is a losing battle. Print books are going to be relegated to a niche market like vinyl. Sure vinyl has seen a resurgence in popularity among "purists", but it still only represents a small portion of music sales. At some point in time you will see the price of eBooks drop below that of print and that will be the death knell mass printing of books...at least for non-educational books.
And to be quite frank I welcome that day. We will get reasonably priced eBooks and a lot less tress will have to be cut down.
Using vinyl is a poor comparison. In that example the quality of the product (sound) is taken into consideration. With the e-book trend the quality should give the printed side the advantage.
Also, MOST books offered through Barnes and Noble ARE slightly cheaper in the e-format.
I disagree. I have found the eBook reading experience to be FAR superior to reading a print novel. For one they take up less space. Secondly, it is very convenient to have all of my books in one spot. Thirdly, I can search any of the novels I have very quickly and easily. So if I want to find all references to Cyric in the first novel of the Avatar series, I can do that in a matter of seconds. Oh, and with my Kindle Fire, I can look up the definition to words that I might not understand AND I can search the web for places or characters I don't know about. There isn't anything you could do to make me go back to reading print novels anymore. Just like I don't carry around records or cds anymore. It's just too convenient to have all of my music on an iPod or some equivalent device.
I feel those who prefer to stay with print do so mainly for nostalgic reasons....hence my reference to vinyl, or they are just very averse to change. And ALL FR eBooks on Amazon sell at a cheaper price than their print variants. But either way, I stand by my statement. Print novels are on their way out as the main medium of literature. There is no amount of protesting or boycotting that will stop it.
I think it would be best if we all supported it so that we can encourage a drop in price for eBooks and to find ways to maximize the formats potential. |
Edited by - Caolin on 28 Jun 2012 23:00:04 |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2012 : 23:25:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Caolin
quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
quote:
Originally posted by Caolin
Honestly, this is a losing battle. Print books are going to be relegated to a niche market like vinyl. Sure vinyl has seen a resurgence in popularity among "purists", but it still only represents a small portion of music sales. At some point in time you will see the price of eBooks drop below that of print and that will be the death knell mass printing of books...at least for non-educational books.
And to be quite frank I welcome that day. We will get reasonably priced eBooks and a lot less tress will have to be cut down.
Using vinyl is a poor comparison. In that example the quality of the product (sound) is taken into consideration. With the e-book trend the quality should give the printed side the advantage.
Also, MOST books offered through Barnes and Noble ARE slightly cheaper in the e-format.
I disagree. I have found the eBook reading experience to be FAR superior to reading a print novel. For one they take up less space. Secondly, it is very convenient to have all of my books in one spot. Thirdly, I can search any of the novels I have very quickly and easily. So if I want to find all references to Cyric in the first novel of the Avatar series, I can do that in a matter of seconds. Oh, and with my Kindle Fire, I can look up the definition to words that I might not understand AND I can search the web for places or characters I don't know about. There isn't anything you could do to make me go back to reading print novels anymore. Just like I don't carry around records or cds anymore. It's just too convenient to have all of my music on an iPod or some equivalent device.
I feel those who prefer to stay with print do so mainly for nostalgic reasons....hence my reference to vinyl, or they are just very averse to change. And ALL FR eBooks on Amazon sell at a cheaper price than their print variants. But either way, I stand by my statement. Print novels are on their way out as the main medium of literature. There is no amount of protesting or boycotting that will stop it.
I think it would be best if we all supported it so that we can encourage a drop in price for eBooks and to find ways to maximize the formats potential.
Ebooks do have a certain appeal. The last time I moved, aside from furniture, the heaviest and crappiest part of the moving was hauling my bins and boxes of books around. heh. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36974 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2012 : 00:36:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus
Ebooks do have a certain appeal. The last time I moved, aside from furniture, the heaviest and crappiest part of the moving was hauling my bins and boxes of books around. heh.
The first time I was moving on my own, I found a very large box, one that would hold most of my books (maybe 200, at the time). And so I put them all in that one box.
Yeah. Not my smartest maneuver. 
I was able to move the box by myself, but I learned my lesson.
When I was moving out of my 3rd floor apartment, I moved all of my books and such by myself... And ye dancing gods, it was a pain! One of the most irksome things about losing everything in the fire, a couple months later, was thinking of how difficult moving all that stuff had been!  |
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Thrasymachus
Learned Scribe
195 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2012 : 21:19:32
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It's not a plot or a plan. It's just cruddy marketing.
I am not buying nooks, kindles, or any other gadget that’s going to be made obsolete in the next upgrade.
*raises hand*
Can you print out the e-books? I am thinking maybe I can run off a copy, and take it to a book binder. |
Former Forgotten Realms brand manager Jim Butler: "Everything that bears the Forgotten Realms logo is considered canon". |
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Yoss
Learned Scribe
USA
259 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2012 : 09:57:32
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| Eh, consider me lured. Having become all too much a creature of the promised instant gratification on the one-click buy button, and the availability of a bunch of older fr stuff I was slowly getting around to obtaining from various used book sources, I can't be too against the idea of ebooks when they're such a convience--for example right now, at work, had I forgotten to throw a second paperback in my backpack in the event it was a quiet enough night at work to make it through the first, i could just go online and grab something else. Doesn't mean I don't still enjoy buying a physical book every now and then, though. |
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Yoss
Learned Scribe
USA
259 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2012 : 10:00:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus
Ebooks do have a certain appeal. The last time I moved, aside from furniture, the heaviest and crappiest part of the moving was hauling my bins and boxes of books around. heh.
The first time I was moving on my own, I found a very large box, one that would hold most of my books (maybe 200, at the time). And so I put them all in that one box.
Yeah. Not my smartest maneuver.
I was able to move the box by myself, but I learned my lesson.
When I was moving out of my 3rd floor apartment, I moved all of my books and such by myself... And ye dancing gods, it was a pain! One of the most irksome things about losing everything in the fire, a couple months later, was thinking of how difficult moving all that stuff had been!
My dresser is the only thing I own that has proved to be more of a pain in the ass to move than boxes of books. And I often wonder, when I'm at work and I get sent on calls up to 3rd or 4th floor apartments, if I lived that many floors up, would I even own any furniture? Because I don't think I could be bothered to have more than a cheap coffee table and some lawn chairs..Nevermind major appliances. |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2012 : 20:39:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Thrasymachus
It's not a plot or a plan. It's just cruddy marketing.
I am not buying nooks, kindles, or any other gadget that’s going to be made obsolete in the next upgrade.
*raises hand*
Can you print out the e-books? I am thinking maybe I can run off a copy, and take it to a book binder.
Just because it's being made electronic doesn't necessarily mean that you have to buy a portable gadget to read it. They can also release it as an e-doc that you can read on a computer. Store it on a personal website, and you can access it from any computer, sparing you from having to lug around a portable device with built-in, engineered obsolescence.
I think where they err is releasing electronic documents in proprietary formats that can only be read on specific devices. That's like having so many different connectors on AC charger cords for these devices, instead of going with something truly, well, Universal (USB). |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
769 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2012 : 00:44:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Thrasymachus
It's not a plot or a plan. It's just cruddy marketing.
I am not buying nooks, kindles, or any other gadget that’s going to be made obsolete in the next upgrade.
*raises hand*
Can you print out the e-books? I am thinking maybe I can run off a copy, and take it to a book binder.
Can you point to one instance where one of these "gadgets" was made obsolete in any upgrade? I mean, yeah, Apple releases a new version of their devices a couple times a year. But all the older versions still work. Heck, Amazon is planning on releasing a new Kindle Fire pretty soon and I am 100% positive that my current version will still display the books that I bought with it. |
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Thrasymachus
Learned Scribe
195 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2012 : 03:33:02
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quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
quote:
Originally posted by Thrasymachus
It's not a plot or a plan. It's just cruddy marketing.
I am not buying nooks, kindles, or any other gadget that’s going to be made obsolete in the next upgrade.
*raises hand*
Can you print out the e-books? I am thinking maybe I can run off a copy, and take it to a book binder.
Just because it's being made electronic doesn't necessarily mean that you have to buy a portable gadget to read it. They can also release it as an e-doc that you can read on a computer. Store it on a personal website, and you can access it from any computer, sparing you from having to lug around a portable device with built-in, engineered obsolescence.
I think where they err is releasing electronic documents in proprietary formats that can only be read on specific devices. That's like having so many different connectors on AC charger cords for these devices, instead of going with something truly, well, Universal (USB).
Good points. Although I think installing a computer in reach of the toilet isn't going to fly 
The proprietary formats are another downer for me.
quote:
Originally posted by Caolin
quote:
Originally posted by Thrasymachus
It's not a plot or a plan. It's just cruddy marketing.
I am not buying nooks, kindles, or any other gadget that’s going to be made obsolete in the next upgrade.
*raises hand*
Can you print out the e-books? I am thinking maybe I can run off a copy, and take it to a book binder.
Can you point to one instance where one of these "gadgets" was made obsolete in any upgrade? I mean, yeah, Apple releases a new version of their devices a couple times a year. But all the older versions still work. Heck, Amazon is planning on releasing a new Kindle Fire pretty soon and I am 100% positive that my current version will still display the books that I bought with it.
I am not using a Kindle to look up the word obsolete, so bear with me a moment…
From Random House Dictionary of the English Language * licks a thumb and flips through pages*
Obsolescence…
Obsolescent…
Ahh, here we go
Obsolete: (1) No longer in general use; fallen into disuse. (2) of a discarded or outmoded type: out of date (3)(of a word or other linguistic unit) no longer in use, esp., out of use for at least a century. (4) effaced by wearing down or away (5) Biol imperfectly developed or rudimentary in comparison with the corresponding character in other individuals, as of the opposite sex or a related species. (6) to make obsolete by replacing with something newer or better.; antiquate.
Let’s take the Kindle itself…
The Amazon Kindle is in it’s 4th generation vs books which are in their final version btw. Now, are you arguing that the Kindle Fire is going to be the final generation? More to the point of obsolescence; you would be hard pressed to find someone who would buy a 1st generation Kindle because it’s obsolete, as in no longer in general use. The first generation Kindle has been replaced by something newer and better. I took a gander on that new fangled Internet, and it seems the first generation Kindle isn’t even made anymore.
Amazon Kindle software was introduced for use on various devices. Including among others Blackberry.
I can assure you the former Crackberry has lost most of it’s market share. Rim (which makes Blackberry) has it’s back against the wall. If the moderators don’t object I am willing to bet a Billie Holiday album on vinyl that the company will have been bought up or gone out of business within the next three years. Even if they rolled a 20, and managed to stay afloat there are plenty of now obsolete devices they have put out.
I am going to stop at two, because the point is made.
I get the Kindle advantages. It’s compact. You can change the font size. It lights up. If I gave a hoot about trees that could be a plus too although as a side note you may be surprised what’s done to the environment to create that soon to be obsolete device that is so coveted. And by obsolete let’s be clear that you will be able to find first generation Kindles in landfills long after you and I shuffle of this mortal coil.
If I lose a 7-dollar paperback (or even a 50 dollar hardcover) on the beach, the hiking trail, on the train, in cab… well I just buy a new one - versus losing the latest $200 gadget
Not so long ago you could buy old Forgotten Realm modules and sourcebooks from a third party. The were called ESD’s or some such. The promise was you could download forever, and you could, right up to the moment they lost the license agreement, and went poof.
If the material is put out in both book and electronic form that’s great. I am not saying don’t do e-books. I am saying Wizards is silly to limit itself to e-books without publishing hard copy at any price. Real books are not buggy whips.
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Former Forgotten Realms brand manager Jim Butler: "Everything that bears the Forgotten Realms logo is considered canon". |
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Derulbaskul
Senior Scribe
Singapore
408 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2012 : 04:00:55
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I find eBooks so much more practical.
For a long time, I kept a house in Oz - even though I wasn't living there - simply so I could store all my books.
I've been making a concerted effort to get everything in eBook or PDF format now. Almost all of my D&D books are now in PDF - including all of the Dungeon magazines and most of the Dragon magazines - and I have many of my novels in .txt or PDF formats. (And, yes, most of these are not legal copies. As I own the originals, I don't really care.)
I do hope WotC and other publishers work out the nonsense prohibiting the sale of eBooks to other countries but I suspect that's going to take a long time.
Honestly, I prefer real books to the electronic format but I divide my time between three countries so real books aren't as practical as they once were. |
Cheers
D
NB: Please remember: A cannon is a big gun. Canon is what we discuss here. |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2012 : 05:13:02
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I am reminded of the films Wall Street, and even more relevantly, OPM, for "Other People's Money". Big tycoons steamroll over individual businesses or even entire industries with hardly a thought for all the people being put out in the process. Unfortunately, only in the movies do we get our quaint little pull-out solutions to preserve the history and tradition of the old-school ways as we simultaneously herald in the new age.  |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Thrasymachus
Learned Scribe
195 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2012 : 05:47:43
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quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
I am reminded of the films Wall Street, and even more relevantly, OPM, for "Other People's Money". Big tycoons steamroll over individual businesses or even entire industries with hardly a thought for all the people being put out in the process. Unfortunately, only in the movies do we get our quaint little pull-out solutions to preserve the history and tradition of the old-school ways as we simultaneously herald in the new age.
With the "obsolete" term was thrown out in the same discussion as books & E-readers I was thinking small screen "The Obsolete Man" - Twilight Zone. Burgess Merideth as the Librarian on trial for being obsolete. |
Former Forgotten Realms brand manager Jim Butler: "Everything that bears the Forgotten Realms logo is considered canon". |
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Are we being Lured to ebooks?
