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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Jun 2012 : 11:54:33
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Hello...
I was wondering if the scribes here could clear something up for me.
A Demi Lich is immune to ALL magic except as follows: A shatter spell affects a demilich as if it were a crystalline creature, but deals half the damage normally indicated. A dispel evil spell deals 3d6 points of damage (Fort save for half damage). Holy smite spells affect demiliches normally.
So looking at Shatter one can deduct that is is sonic damage it utilizes in order to damage a crystalline creature or anything else for that matter. So now since one has chosen Elemental Mastery as a Arch-Mage high arcana, one could change a lot of evocation spell into sonic damage. But would these spells (like a sonic fireball) or a Cone of Sonic deal damage to a Demi Lich.. Just lige Shatter or is it simply immune to everything except this one special sonic spell???
Im personally inclined to think it is damaged by other sonic spells than just Shatter, but what does the scribes of old candlekeep think?
Thanks
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2012 : 12:35:34
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This Achilles-heel vulnerability is something introduced in newer D&D editions, "older" demi-liches could not be slain so easily.
In earlier editions, shatter itself allowed a save/negate, which basically equated to a high-percentage chance that the demi-lich would be entirely unaffected by each casting of the spell ... assuming the spell also defeated the demi-lich's magic resistance. Spells such as (minor) globe of invulnerability could make the caster entirely immune to all low level spells; I would think a demi-lich would automatically employ such magics and never allow itself to be so easily slain, but different DMs might argue either way. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2012 : 18:55:35
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| So you can hurt or damage a demi lich with any sonic spell... correct? |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2012 : 21:09:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
So you can hurt or damage a demi lich with any sonic spell... correct?
In what rules edition are we talking here? |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2012 : 21:24:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
So you can hurt or damage a demi lich with any sonic spell... correct?
In what rules edition are we talking here?
We are talking 3.0/ 3.5 ed! |
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2012 : 00:13:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
So you can hurt or damage a demi lich with any sonic spell... correct?
I would say no - it specifically says what spells can affect it, not a general sonic attack.
Demi-liches should be very very very very rare and therefore should also be very tough to beat, so keep it to the spells listed and make the players squirm......
Cheers
Damian |
So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2012 : 19:59:21
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| Thats true, but I just feel that Shatter, being only level 2 is not "special" enough to hurt a demi lich per say, but it is the sonic effect of Shatter that damages it. As if it were a crystalline creature. Can one not hurt a crystalline creature with "normal" sonic magic??? I have somehow a feeling that this be the case, and therefore also the case of a Demi Lich. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2012 : 20:05:03
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You know whats even scarrier then a demi-lich? A Demi-Maur!
Its a lich that acts like a succubus... quite disgusting, actually. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2012 : 20:33:45
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I can't remember a published wizard that has Shatter memorized (though I know there were a couple...just can't remember which).
Now, having said that, Shatter is an unusual spell...and the reason it was picked is that there is probably a certain weakness within the Lich that makes this a viable spell while others are not. Perhaps a traced sigil, invoked word...whatever...but it is a "thing" that makes THAT spell special. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2012 : 21:38:14
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Nicolai, you should do whatever works in your own games, but I think Dalor has the right of it: those specific spells are listed as being vulnerabilities of a demi-Lich, so you should stick to those specific spells.
Different demi-liches might have varying powers/weaknesses, though. Entire quests might be devoted to finding out what a particular demi-lich's Achilles Heel might be.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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idilippy
Senior Scribe
USA
417 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2012 : 22:27:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Nicolai, you should do whatever works in your own games, but I think Dalor has the right of it: those specific spells are listed as being vulnerabilities of a demi-Lich, so you should stick to those specific spells.
Different demi-liches might have varying powers/weaknesses, though. Entire quests might be devoted to finding out what a particular demi-lich's Achilles Heel might be.
Cheers
That's how I would run it, particularly since I use Pathfinder, and the demi-lich is brutal for most parties as a boss monster 1-3CR above the party's level(well, unless they have an archer paladin who wins initiative). The demi-lich should be the center of the adventure, something the party learns of and researches the proper way to dispose of, rather than just a simple random monster to do one justice. Make your demi-lich it's own creature with unique weaknesses based on the process used, who the lich was in life, the area, or whatever else you think is interesting and gives the PCs who have properly researched and prepared a chance at victory. Each of the clues, of course, would be in some way difficult for the party to discover, so you could easily make a full campaign based around the demi-lich, or at least a short adventure series. |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2012 : 22:51:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Nicolai, you should do whatever works in your own games, but I think Dalor has the right of it: those specific spells are listed as being vulnerabilities of a demi-Lich, so you should stick to those specific spells.
Different demi-liches might have varying powers/weaknesses, though. Entire quests might be devoted to finding out what a particular demi-lich's Achilles Heel might be.
Cheers
Thanks... I totally understand the rationality, that this spell has been picked and therefore its the only one that works. It just also makes sense that as it is the sonic vibrations of shatter that damages crystalline creatures and demi liches, so would it be able to damage crystalline creates with other sonic attacks... and therefor demi liches. I know that a demi lich is not a crystalline creature, but it has some of the same aspects. Such as taking damage from sonic attacks (as a crystalline creature. So if sonic attack damages crystalline creatures like a Cone of Sonic so would i think it would damage a demi lich. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2012 : 23:41:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Nicolai, you should do whatever works in your own games, but I think Dalor has the right of it: those specific spells are listed as being vulnerabilities of a demi-Lich, so you should stick to those specific spells.
Different demi-liches might have varying powers/weaknesses, though. Entire quests might be devoted to finding out what a particular demi-lich's Achilles Heel might be.
Cheers
Thanks... I totally understand the rationality, that this spell has been picked and therefore its the only one that works. It just also makes sense that as it is the sonic vibrations of shatter that damages crystalline creatures and demi liches, so would it be able to damage crystalline creates with other sonic attacks... and therefor demi liches. I know that a demi lich is not a crystalline creature, but it has some of the same aspects. Such as taking damage from sonic attacks (as a crystalline creature. So if sonic attack damages crystalline creatures like a Cone of Sonic so would i think it would damage a demi lich.
It isn't taking damage from the "normal" aspect of the spell. It is only taking damage because of something IN the spell. It may not even be the Sonic aspect that is hurting the Demi-Lich.
As an example: My weakness is onions...now you can throw onions at me all day...I can rub them on my skin...nothing. Now put a sneaky arse piece of onion in my burger and I get a swollen tongue!
The Demi-Lich is "allergic" to the Shatter spell alone...not the type of damage it does. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2012 : 07:37:39
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I've made excellent use of shatter before, it can cause all sorts of havoc busting up potion vials, glassteel weaponry, figurines, gems and jewels and crystals, mirrors, orbs, spellcasting components (like the magnifying lenses re-used for read magic), all sorts of stuff. It's surprising how effectively the spell can neutralize a lot of hostile magical resources, especially if also used with dispel magic, and these are both low level spells. Perhaps archmages won't bother to memorize shatter, but tons of little magelings really haven't got much else in their bag of tricks.
My players aren't so fond of using such tactics, largely because it ruins some of the precious loot they expect to divvy up after defeating an adversary. Using them as an example, this particular demi-lich "vulnerability" is almost entirely inconsequential. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Demi Lich
