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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Jun 2012 : 22:15:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Branimir
Alright, heard a lot of pros and cons on things, but I feel like I need to go through them all myself still... which makes this thread less productive than I hoped.
You need not learn every rule to give it a spin and see if you like it. Although finding groups who play older editions may be troublesome. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4471 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2012 : 16:46:38
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I've played in the late stages of AD&D, then fully into 3E then converted to v3.5 and then onto 4th Edition. From my experiences I've had a lot of fun with v3.5 and 4E the most. I like 3E's customization for characters in terms of a level-by-level multiclass system (but this has it's own problems). I also like the customizaton of campaign aspects v3.5 has to offer. The core mechanics are also very adaptable to literally any sort of campaign you want. Low-Magic, High-Magic, Epic-Magic, Westerns, Goth/Horror, War-style campaigns (dealing with troops, military based ideas, etc..), aquatic/sea-faring campaigns, desert campaigns, and more. The reason why it's a bit more adaptable to these than 4e is because there are supplements to support them and specific mechanics that alter or change the game for these specific diffrences.
I like 4E because I love the DM ease that's found within. Making monsters (completely from scratch or modifying them) is SO much easier than in v3.5 (almost a craft to get right). Also, there are a lot of rules modules thats easily slapped onto the game via the Character Builder. The supportive on-line tool for 4E is pretty extensive and easy to use. As for game-play, the classes are far more balanced, the descriptions of powers/spells/etc. can be whatever you desire, it's easier to re-flavor monsters, weapons, spells, classes, themes to fit your desire. I like how classes have a more 'focused' feel. A Fighter is darn good at defending and with a variety of weapons where as a Wizard is good at controlling the battlefield and supressing monsters with his spells. There's also a much more free-form aspect in the non-combative area. You don't need to be super special or put in a lot of character resources to be good at baking or playing the flute or crafting a mundane sword. The math and mechanics is far less convoluted (ie. Making magical items is WAY easier than in 3E).
Needless to say, one is free (d20srd.com) and one you have to pay for (but i think the free downloaded rules are still available). So give both a try and see which one you like more. Perhaps your like me and Erik and like both but for different reasons. There is just something awesome about both systems that I have a hard time "picking" one. And I wouldn't feel pressured into thinking you have to choose one. Liking more than one system is, IMO, more preferred than sticking with a single one. |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4216 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2012 : 17:45:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Liking more than one system is, IMO, more preferred than sticking with a single one.
I agree with this. I actually like all editions of Dungeons and Dragons for varying reasons.
The reason I like AD&D and AD&D2 more are for reasons of history...I simply played them for so dang long! I didn't even really know what I was doing when I was six years old and got my first book (the Monster Manual RULED!)...BUT I kept at it and those two games lasted me right up until 3.0 came out...and that is a long many years to put behind you.
With 3.0 it took some serious getting used to honestly. One of my players outright quit playing D&D because his character got hosed badly (his character, Malik "The Freed" was a human Ftr/Thf/Clr/Wiz...all around 9 levels in each, though I can't remember exactly). His character became so different under the new rules he just decided he was done. I can understand it in a way, he went from being a Warrior Lord (with a keep and all the troops), a Thief-Master (with a small band of spies and thugs), a Cleric with followers and a Wizard capable of teleporting...to (I think) a second level fighter, second level thief, and an odd assortment of clerical and wizard abilites nowhere near the casting ability he had before.
The rest of the party was really fine because they all had just one class...two at most.
4e came out, and it was fun too...but a TOTALLY different animal. They of course even said you should put behind your other characters and simply make new ones because the game was so different.
Man, fever has me rambling!
The thing to remember is simply this: it doesn't matter what rules you use as long as you find a good group of pals to hang out with and have fun. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4471 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2012 : 23:43:29
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| Something I really loved about the Baldur's Gate games are the intricate histories of all the magical items you got in the game. Pick up a +1 weapon and it has some history tied to it that makes it unique. I think we lost that somewhere along the way of everyone has +X weapon. With the flatter math approach of D&D:Next, it seems that this history should play a more important role in "cool-ness" factor for these weapons. |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4216 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2012 : 00:09:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Something I really loved about the Baldur's Gate games are the intricate histories of all the magical items you got in the game. Pick up a +1 weapon and it has some history tied to it that makes it unique. I think we lost that somewhere along the way of everyone has +X weapon. With the flatter math approach of D&D:Next, it seems that this history should play a more important role in "cool-ness" factor for these weapons.
That game (and the Realms in general) are the main reason I have tried to NEVER give out a magic item that is simply "A Sword +1" or even a simple magical potion.
I tried for a long time to make the Healing Potions of various gods unique...but that got out of hand for time...so I settled on one general look for such...but I still try to make the descriptions and history unique for each. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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idilippy
Senior Scribe
USA
417 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2012 : 00:50:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Something I really loved about the Baldur's Gate games are the intricate histories of all the magical items you got in the game. Pick up a +1 weapon and it has some history tied to it that makes it unique. I think we lost that somewhere along the way of everyone has +X weapon. With the flatter math approach of D&D:Next, it seems that this history should play a more important role in "cool-ness" factor for these weapons.
That game (and the Realms in general) are the main reason I have tried to NEVER give out a magic item that is simply "A Sword +1" or even a simple magical potion.
I tried for a long time to make the Healing Potions of various gods unique...but that got out of hand for time...so I settled on one general look for such...but I still try to make the descriptions and history unique for each.
Yeah, I loved that about the game too, even +1 rings of protection had a small story to go with it, likewise for some other magical items that would be considered minor in 3e and beyond. That game has inspired me as a DM to come up with histories for most items, and to not overload the PCs in my Forgotten Realms with generic +x items. Sometimes, of course, it's unavoidable. Not every item can have an intricate history, some are simply mass produced items or items that never amounted to anything, but most items can be given at least a little history. I think that items with history are one great way to get across the depth of the Forgotten Realms setting to players, showing off just how fantastic the history of the setting is. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4216 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2012 : 01:01:38
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| The "Magic Factory" is one of the reasons I prefer to play AD&D or AD&D2...in those games there had to be thought and even adventure behind the crafting of a magical item. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2012 : 01:08:15
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Emphasizing the history, nature and look-and-feel of magic items over their mechanical details was one of the approaches that Ed Greenwood pioneered in his 'Arcane Lore' and other articles in Dragon magazine. This is one area where first and second edition AD&D, with their lengthy and difficult processes for making magical items, as further elaborated by Ed in Volo's Guide to All Things Magical, represent the Realms more closely than the editions where such items can be crafted or bought relatively easily.
Incidentally, for potions, a key piece of lore -- the flask marks often used to indicate them -- was tucked away in a 2000s Dragon article. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3746 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2012 : 03:18:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
That game (and the Realms in general) are the main reason I have tried to NEVER give out a magic item that is simply "A Sword +1" or even a simple magical potion.
I tried for a long time to make the Healing Potions of various gods unique...but that got out of hand for time...so I settled on one general look for such...but I still try to make the descriptions and history unique for each.
-I generally do the same thing. Potions and magical healing feels different depending on it's source. A potion brewed by a Cleric of Shar will feel like the pain being numbed, a potion brewed by a Cleric of Lathander will reel refreshed and rejuvenated, a potion brewed by a Cleric of Kossuth will burn your throat and stomach like alcohol when you drink it, a potion brewed by a Cleric of Loviatar will feel like pins and needles, and so on.
-With other magical items, though, I think it really depends on the item. Items that PCs create, or buy, it is a rule that they have to name them. Items that they find- especially weapons- an Identify reveals their names. A lot, though, just don't have names. The batch of +1 swords commissioned by a petty nobleman for his personal guards, for example. They're just swords. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4216 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2012 : 03:37:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
That game (and the Realms in general) are the main reason I have tried to NEVER give out a magic item that is simply "A Sword +1" or even a simple magical potion.
I tried for a long time to make the Healing Potions of various gods unique...but that got out of hand for time...so I settled on one general look for such...but I still try to make the descriptions and history unique for each.
-I generally do the same thing. Potions and magical healing feels different depending on it's source. A potion brewed by a Cleric of Shar will feel like the pain being numbed, a potion brewed by a Cleric of Lathander will reel refreshed and rejuvenated, a potion brewed by a Cleric of Kossuth will burn your throat and stomach like alcohol when you drink it, a potion brewed by a Cleric of Loviatar will feel like pins and needles, and so on.
-With other magical items, though, I think it really depends on the item. Items that PCs create, or buy, it is a rule that they have to name them. Items that they find- especially weapons- an Identify reveals their names. A lot, though, just don't have names. The batch of +1 swords commissioned by a petty nobleman for his personal guards, for example. They're just swords.
Ahhh...but they AREN'T just swords. They are the "Sword of Jerum, Guard of Baron Korl" and so on. Swords in history, unlike in D&D, were very cherished (if it was a finely made sword and/or a gift).
Also, to make even a +1 Sword in AD&D HURT the maker (loss of a constitution point!) unless a secret formula was found...such as the "technology" of the Drow.
I actually used to hand out Magic Item Cards. These cards were numbered and signed by me...so there was no "extra" magic items that suddenly came into the game. When a potion was drank, the card had to be passed to the DM (me) and I destroyed it and marked it in my "Magic Items Book" as gone.
Giving these index cards often made the item come alive...especially if there was some history and description of the sword written on the card. Made things fun!
EDIT: something I also actually enjoyed was keeping a Spell Component sheet for each caster. When they bought/found/acquired new components, they gave me the new list and I added it to their inventory that I kept. When they didn't have a component, they didn't cast a spell! Even "pinches of sand" or "rose petals" were kept this way for spells as simple as Sleep. If a caster had his spell compenents/foci removed from his control, he could be in a lot of trouble! |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
Edited by - Dalor Darden on 09 Jun 2012 03:40:33 |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2012 : 04:23:15
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| I have done a little of research into running a 3.x/PFRPG game w/ little or no magic, but I always run up against how this would effect the CRs of critters whom are now more resistant to the meddling of adventurers. Has anyone else looking into this at all? |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
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He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
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* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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idilippy
Senior Scribe
USA
417 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2012 : 05:28:02
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That probably deserves a thread of it's own to discuss in, but to begin you need to define what little or no magic means to your game. Are all spellcasting classes banned, just full casting classes, none of the classes? Are you going to add restrictions to players who cast spells and will they be role playing, mechanical, or both? What about magic items, or magical monsters, or supernatural abilities/near-magical feats? Is it just arcane magic that's going to be rare, or just divine, or will both types be rare? Do you still want a full 1st-20th level progression, or would you prefer a lower level game to go along with the low magic?
Most people have a very clear picture in mind when they speak of a low magic game, but that picture is almost never exactly the same as the next person's. I am sure there are more questions to consider that I can't think of as well. The first thing to do is be sure you know exactly what you want for your low magic game, then you can see what has to go and people can get you ideas on how to go about doing that.
For an example, I recently started a Carrion Crown campaign that I wanted to run in 19th century Europe, rather than Golarion, drawing on some classic horror tales for inspiration. I wanted the PCs to be able to use magic, so as not to deviate too much from Pathfinder's assumptions, but didn't want to worry about the effects on the real world if 9th level spells are thrown around. I also wanted there to still be a reason for technology increasing, and decided that I wanted magic item shops to be nonexistent and mystical creatures to be rare enough that many people in the world may not have seen them.
For my needs, I decided running an E7 campaign(characters, PC and NPC, level up to 7 at most, then get feats every so often thereafter rather than continuing to gain levels) with firearm rules from d20 past and an option from Unearthed Arcana for armor increases by level(that's on d20srd.com). I also decided that magic is in decline in the world, non-humans are dying out or becoming more humanlike, monsters are vanished from the more civilized areas, and both the number and potency of individuals capable of spellcasting has long been in decline. I came up with a world where earth shattering spells and dragons as large as a skyscraper are things of legends argued over by historians over what is true and what is an exaggeration. A world where magic items come from deeds the item has accomplished, individuals the item has been in contact with, belief associated with the item, or simple age: a magic item being a relic of a bygone era, rather than one with magical assembly lines. That let me have the flavor of the late 1800's Europe for the players without worrying about all the possible changes a magic-saturated setting would have, while also allowing full casters for my PCs(they're special after all) and leaving it open for PCs to acquire magic items, or even for mundane items in their possession to become magical by association or significant deeds. I also skipped over the "real world religion" problems by making none of the deities or pantheons talkative. Special members of any faith may receive divine casting ability, but those individuals are rare in every religion, and are just as likely to be hermits or wanderers than leaders of the various faiths.
All of those changes work for me and my players, because they fit the lower magic campaign I want, however your campaign may require a completely different system of changes. Might be best to start a new thread with your whole campaign idea and your view on magic in it in there, then let people address your specific points. Sorry that this long post doesn't have a ton in the way of specific help, I'd be more than happy to give you my opinions on possible changes when/if I get a better idea what you see your campaign as being(though you probably will find others with better advice or more experience than me). |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2012 : 13:35:03
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| Iron Heroes has some great low-magic options to help overcome these issues. |
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Eltheron
Senior Scribe
740 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2012 : 19:06:59
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| Game of Thrones d20 RPG for a low/almost no magic game. |
"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3746 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2012 : 22:05:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Ahhh...but they AREN'T just swords. They are the "Sword of Jerum, Guard of Baron Korl" and so on. Swords in history, unlike in D&D, were very cherished (if it was a finely made sword and/or a gift).
-Except, to the PCs, Jerum the Guard of Baron Korl is a nobody, and certainly isn't a proper noun, as more powerful weapons with more 'proper' names are.
quote:
Originally posted by Hawkins
I have done a little of research into running a 3.x/PFRPG game w/ little or no magic, but I always run up against how this would effect the CRs of critters whom are now more resistant to the meddling of adventurers. Has anyone else looking into this at all?
-I don't remember the specifics of the game because it was a while ago, but the party (10th Level or so) encountered a Golem. However it happened, we were low on magic, and we had fought some Beholders previously, and a few party members had their primary weapons disintegrated (a better option than the characters themselves getting evaporated). With the Golem's DR, and limited magical weapons to bypass it, it was a horrible battle. A hell of a lot of damage was absorbed and ignored, prolonging it way past what probably would have been a generally easy battle with said weapons and spells. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 09 Jun 2012 22:08:39 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4216 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2012 : 00:00:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Ahhh...but they AREN'T just swords. They are the "Sword of Jerum, Guard of Baron Korl" and so on. Swords in history, unlike in D&D, were very cherished (if it was a finely made sword and/or a gift).
-Except, to the PCs, Jerum the Guard of Baron Korl is a nobody, and certainly isn't a proper noun, as more powerful weapons with more 'proper' names are.
I'm only saying that anything can have history. As for Jerum's Blade; medieval knights often named their swords...just as soldiers in our own army (yours truly included) often name their weapons. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Branimir
Acolyte
USA
27 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2012 : 15:16:10
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Sorry it took so long to reply, there were so many messages to reply to, and I wanted to get them all, so it was a while before I had the time. So in order from my last post:
Dalor Darden, thank you! I'm not sure why I didn't think of that. >.< That was one of the Forgotten Realms books I got. I guess I just thought it was stories more than a rule set for how to play as the race.
Fellfire, I've never even seen a hobby store? I've always hated shopping, I've shopped online for everything my entire life. Aside from food of course. I'm not sure how to meet local people for games like that.
Alright I know about D&D and Pathfinder. There are more systems that can be used to play forgotten realms?? I'm starting to get confused on who makes what here. TSR makes Forgotten Realms right? (I mean specifically Ed Greenwood and Eric L Boyd (and others?) write the stuff but TSR owns and publishes it.) Someone else makes D&D don't they? And who is Paizo are they related to the people who make Forgotten Realms?
I may be able to get my dad to host a game in whatever version of D&D he played, either 1 or 2 or both. But how can I play a game without knowing the rules? Isn't character generation different and such? Will I need a different character for each version set to the specifications of that version?
Diffan, I only care about Forgotten Realms, its the whole reason I'm looking at D&D. I suppose if I took the time to look into D&D I'd likely discover its pretty cool even without FR but I don't have the time to think about the extra stuff. You bring up a whole slew of new complicated factors to add to my equation
I have no concept of how the games run so, while I understand the words, I don't get the experience of difference between the benefits you've mentioned. Although it sounds like v4 is the easiest, which sounds good to me. Wait, baking? You can bake in this game? What good is baking to a medieval warrior? Do they need to eat?
Dalor Darden, I never played the old ones so they don't have sentimental appeal for me
And since I'm making my first character anyway it makes no difference what system I make it on. That answers a question though, now I know that the characters are definitely different from game to game, enforcing my desire to only bother with one system at least for starters
As for the uniqueness of items, I remember that from BG. It was cool, but I like how it is now too. It makes sense, its more realistic. In reality there are some unique amazing weapons, a lot of just general weapons made by amateurs (or a manufacturing line) and some that are just slightly better quality, and slightly better than that, and so on. Some of them might have a unique history, and some might not. And that's pretty much how it is now in the game. I've seen weapons in NWN2 that are +2 nothing special, and ones with a unique name and history, and they're also just +2 with nothing making them any greater than the non-unique other than the history. (and of course there are tons of unique items that give other bonuses too) It doesn't make sense that every single thing would be unique, because a lot of regular local blacksmiths make weapons too and some are better than others and such but there's nothing special about the weapons and armor they make.
And I think I was taught that the whole +1 or +2 thing referred to magical enhancement, but honestly I don't even look at it like that anymore. Because in reality not every weapon of the same type is going to be exactly the same quality and strength. So I see it as some might be from magical enhancement but some might just be slightly better swords. Honestly I think they need an entirely better system for determining weapon strength and damage, like in Diablo a weapon would just do like 20-30 damage give or take, but a crude version could do 2-15 or 1-17 or 3-17, and a superior version might do 25-35 and have a higher durability as well. And then magic is a separate thing, magic enhancements being applied on top of the individual weapons statistics. I think they should do something like that, of course it would still have to be a dice roll to determine the damage for each swing, but you could use dice to roll the range of damage as well. Like something could inherently have a 2d6+2 damage, (or 2d6-2 for crude weapons) and then also have a magic enhancement of +2, and of course they would stack because they're technically different things.(or in case of a -2 and +2, cancel each other out.)
Lord Karsus explanation for differences between potions I like though, where as I don't feel a unique history as necessary, it makes sense that different groups brew things slightly differently and they'd have a different taste and feel to them. Is there a comprehensive list of potions like that somewhere? It sounds cool but I'd really prefer not to do the work myself, I'd rather an online list with photos of every kind of potion and how they effect the user to make my life easier.
Dalor Darden, how about just every sword ever made by random not very good Blacksmith from small town? There's no way you can think of a history for that
Since its 1000s of people throughout their entire life, their first swords will be crappier than their last. But in all, still no one cares about their weapons/armor. I mean maybe they could add a signature to it like a "Sword +1 by Blacksmith Jerod of Mirabar made 1342DR" or something but even that, well Idk about you, but I really don't care much about who made some random sword that I'm going to toss as soon as I find a better one.
I like the idea of the index cards, but really I just assumed that was how it is done. I mean, in the video games you find something it has a description and stats, I figured in the PnP version it was the same thing, gm gave them a card or sheet of paper for the items they got (aside from minor stuff like a potion). I would probably do this, get a bunch of index cards with items written out on them, fill a small treasure chest with the folded index cards, then whenever they get to a point where they would get treasure roll a d6 to see how many cards to pull out then pull them out at random. They could get an epic weapon, or simply some bolts for a sling when they don't even use a sling. And also have several things to do that way wherever they go there's something to do, items to get, and the game can go on for as many quests as there is time for.
Anyway, I've decided I'm just going to learn v4. Its newer, and sounds easier, and I probably would have chosen to learn it anyway if I'd known it wasn't as restricted as I thought it was. And if I learn something to make me more interested in another version later I'll check it out. But I wont be able to learn v4 for awhile anyway, tons of work, and all free time (which will be nonexistent for at least a week) goes to Diablo 3. Which is a good game you might want to check out if you haven't already, better than NWN2 (which is my current favorite realms game, though if they remade the BG games with modern graphics and made them so they could run on my computer again then they'd be my favorite). If Diablo is finally dead in this game, I theorize that the next game might be a game called Sanctuary (the name of the planet they're on) and just be a game of the style of the previous ones based in their world, only more open hopefully, less linear, more like a FR game. |
-Branimir Draek
Please check out The Church of Lathander and consider converting today. http://www.facebook.com/TheMorninglord
Contact the church to have your sins absolved today. I can perform legal weddings in the name of Lathander. |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2012 : 15:53:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Branimir
Alright I know about D&D and Pathfinder. There are more systems that can be used to play forgotten realms?? I'm starting to get confused on who makes what here. TSR makes Forgotten Realms right? (I mean specifically Ed Greenwood and Eric L Boyd (and others?) write the stuff but TSR owns and publishes it.) Someone else makes D&D don't they? And who is Paizo are they related to the people who make Forgotten Realms?
TSR published the D&D and the Realms in the 80s and 90s, then it went bankrupt and Wizards of the Coast (WotC) bought the D&D brand and its affiliated brands came with it. Wizards of the Coast developed and published D&D 3e. Wizards of the Coast also created Paizo as a separate company (IIRC) to publish the Dragon and Dungeon magazines so it focus on making books (Realms and other material) for the D&D brand. In 2004, D&D 3.5 was released. Then, in 2007, WotC relinquished the rights to the Dragon and Dungeon magazines so they could start publishing them in-house again as electronic magazines and announced the advent of D&D 4th edition (along with all of its changes). A large number of D&D 3.5 fans were upset at this and Paizo (now looking for a new product line) recognized this and began developing the Pathfinder RPG (PFRPG) under the Open Game License, which is essentially another rule revision D&D 3.5 (so, still very compatible with the Realms). In the past year, the upstart PFRPG took the place as the most sold RPG from D&D 4e. Then, come the new year, WotC announced that they are developing D&D Next, a new rules set of D&D, which in their hopes will draw back players of all editions of D&D. Earlier this month (or late last month), the first open playtest of said rules was made available. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
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Edited by - Hawkins on 12 Jun 2012 16:57:10 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36912 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2012 : 16:36:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Hawkins
quote:
Originally posted by Branimir
Alright I know about D&D and Pathfinder. There are more systems that can be used to play forgotten realms?? I'm starting to get confused on who makes what here. TSR makes Forgotten Realms right? (I mean specifically Ed Greenwood and Eric L Boyd (and others?) write the stuff but TSR owns and publishes it.) Someone else makes D&D don't they? And who is Paizo are they related to the people who make Forgotten Realms?
TSR published the D&D and the Realms in the 80s and 90s, then it went bankrupt and Wizards of the Coast (WotC) bought the D&D brand and its affiliated brands came with it. Wizards of the Coast developed and published D&D 3e. Wizards of the Coast also created Paizo as a separate company (IIRC) to publish the Dragon and Dungeon magazines so it focus on making books (Realms and other material) for the D&D brand. In 2007, D&D 3.5 was released. Then, in 2007, WotC relinquished the rights to the Dragon and Dungeon magazines so they could start publishing them in-house again as electronic magazines and announced the advent of D&D 4th edition (along with all of its changes). A large number of D&D 3.5 fans were upset at this and Paizo (now looking for a new product line) recognized this and began developing the Pathfinder RPG (PFRPG) under the Open Game License, which is essentially another rule revision D&D 3.5 (so, still very compatible with the Realms). In the past year, the upstart PFRPG took the place as the most sold RPG from D&D 4e. Then, come the new year, WotC announced that they are developing D&D Next, a new rules set of D&D, which in their hopes will draw back players of all editions of D&D. Earlier this month (or late last month), the first open playtest of said rules was made available.
Actually, Paizo was founded by former WotC members. I don't believe WotC had any direct input on the creation of the company. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36912 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2012 : 16:37:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Branimir
Anyway, I've decided I'm just going to learn v4. Its newer, and sounds easier, and I probably would have chosen to learn it anyway if I'd known it wasn't as restricted as I thought it was. And if I learn something to make me more interested in another version later I'll check it out. But I wont be able to learn v4 for awhile anyway, tons of work, and all free time (which will be nonexistent for at least a week) goes to Diablo 3. Which is a good game you might want to check out if you haven't already, better than NWN2 (which is my current favorite realms game, though if they remade the BG games with modern graphics and made them so they could run on my computer again then they'd be my favorite). If Diablo is finally dead in this game, I theorize that the next game might be a game called Sanctuary (the name of the planet they're on) and just be a game of the style of the previous ones based in their world, only more open hopefully, less linear, more like a FR game.
If you're not going to be gaming for a while, you might wait for 5E to come out. It's currently in open playtesting. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Branimir
Acolyte
USA
27 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2012 : 19:12:59
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Ah, so this D&D Next / D&D v5 is coming out soon huh? Alright, I suppose I'll wait for that then, assuming it's coming out in the next few months. Even if I wont have the chance to play for a while I'd like to learn a rule set asap so I'll be able to play when the opportunity arrives. Though I suppose it wont be too hard to be patient with all the other stuff I have to do still. Aside from D3, I'm in the middle of playing through NWN2 again, and I never got the expansions for it so I might get those and see how it improves. I'm still very happy about NWN2, I didn't like NWN1 very much (it was ok) and IWD was somewhat lacking. I really liked DAO too, but that's not FR correct? Is DAO a D&D game based in a different realm? It has the same feel as the FR video games. I hope they come out with a new FRVG soon. Thank you everyone for your assistance.
Edit: So, TSR made D&D and FR? So does that mean FR really is the official campaign for D&D? |
-Branimir Draek
Please check out The Church of Lathander and consider converting today. http://www.facebook.com/TheMorninglord
Contact the church to have your sins absolved today. I can perform legal weddings in the name of Lathander. |
Edited by - Branimir on 12 Jun 2012 19:18:49 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36912 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2012 : 21:11:33
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Well, I don't think 5E is anywhere close to done, so if you're looking to play in a few months, by all means, learn 4E.
TSR published D&D, and at their high point, they also published a lot of different settings, allowing people to play D&D with their characters on a number of different game worlds -- or their own, homebrew settings. The Realms was one of many settings, and it's pretty much the only setting that remains in print. It's not the default setting, though -- a D&D game can be set anywhere. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4471 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2012 : 04:04:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Branimir
Alright I know about D&D and Pathfinder. There are more systems that can be used to play forgotten realms?? I'm starting to get confused on who makes what here. TSR makes Forgotten Realms right? (I mean specifically Ed Greenwood and Eric L Boyd (and others?) write the stuff but TSR owns and publishes it.) Someone else makes D&D don't they? And who is Paizo are they related to the people who make Forgotten Realms?
I may be able to get my dad to host a game in whatever version of D&D he played, either 1 or 2 or both. But how can I play a game without knowing the rules? Isn't character generation different and such? Will I need a different character for each version set to the specifications of that version?
Ok, Wizards of the Coast (apart of Hasbro) makes the Dungeons and Dragons system. This is the core elements of the game that is seen in almost every setting they produce. Wizards of the Coast also support multiple settings, such as the Forgotten Realms, Eberron, Dark Sun, and the Nentir Vale (a new setting by Wizards). The core elements of Dungeons and Dragons is incorporated into each of these settings (much to a lot of people's anger). This is done to allow you to take any supplement you find witin that edition and apply it to your specific supported setting.
The Forgotten Realms, in particular, has specific elements of that setting such as Gods, Races, character options (like Feats and Paragon Paths) in addition to Realms-specific magical items. When you make a character for the Forgotten Realms using 4E, it's generally assumed that the Forgotten Realms Player's Guide and any Dragon-Magazine supplemnts for that setting would be available in addition to anything Genre-less (like the Player's Handbook 1, 2, and 3 and the Adventure's Vault 1 and 2 books). After you get a grip on the core rules and how to play aspects, you can then start to incorporate other setting stuff like Warforged (from Eberron) and the feats associated with their Dragonmarks, but this would probably be a DM decision.
quote:
Originally posted by Branimir
Diffan, I only care about Forgotten Realms, its the whole reason I'm looking at D&D. I suppose if I took the time to look into D&D I'd likely discover its pretty cool even without FR but I don't have the time to think about the extra stuff. You bring up a whole slew of new complicated factors to add to my equation
I have no concept of how the games run so, while I understand the words, I don't get the experience of difference between the benefits you've mentioned. Although it sounds like v4 is the easiest, which sounds good to me. Wait, baking? You can bake in this game? What good is baking to a medieval warrior? Do they need to eat?
Of course you can bake in the game, people gotta eat right  ? Though you don't have to spend character resources (like Skills or Feats) to accomplish stuff that's more background and customization of your history. Basically D&D is the rules engine you use when you make and play a character in the Forgotten Realms. You could use other systems but I think the D&D-ruleset is the easiest way to immerse yourself within the rules and setting. That being said, I would suggest playing 4E as it is a bit easier to get accustomed to, and I would encourage you to get the "Essentials" material for the game first and foremost, espically the Beginner Red Box set. It's an intro to character playing and the rules for 4E. If the DM is good, he'll be able to put a Forgotten Realms spin on the adventure to make it more Realms-ish.
After playing the game and getting accustomed to the rules, go onto Character creation using Heroes of the Fallen Lands and Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms books. Both are non-setting specific but lead you to races, character classes, and the building blocks for making a character.
quote:
Originally posted by Branimir
Anyway, I've decided I'm just going to learn v4. Its newer, and sounds easier, and I probably would have chosen to learn it anyway if I'd known it wasn't as restricted as I thought it was. And if I learn something to make me more interested in another version later I'll check it out. But I wont be able to learn v4 for awhile anyway, tons of work, and all free time (which will be nonexistent for at least a week) goes to Diablo 3. Which is a good game you might want to check out if you haven't already, better than NWN2 (which is my current favorite realms game, though if they remade the BG games with modern graphics and made them so they could run on my computer again then they'd be my favorite). If Diablo is finally dead in this game, I theorize that the next game might be a game called Sanctuary (the name of the planet they're on) and just be a game of the style of the previous ones based in their world, only more open hopefully, less linear, more like a FR game.
If you have any question regarding 4E or the Realms, don't hesitate to ask them. As for Diablo 3, I'm on the fence. I have two friends who are playing it and liking it alot but it doesn't have the Paladin class or Necromancer class, which saddens me greatly. I think i'll wait until something like them are released before I give it a try. |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator |
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Branimir
Acolyte
USA
27 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2012 : 17:58:11
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What are paragon paths?
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
[quote]Originally posted by Branimir
If you have any question regarding 4E or the Realms, don't hesitate to ask them. As for Diablo 3, I'm on the fence. I have two friends who are playing it and liking it alot but it doesn't have the Paladin class or Necromancer class, which saddens me greatly. I think i'll wait until something like them are released before I give it a try.
The Witch Doctor is the Necromancer, they're basically the same, he summons undead but can also summon other creatures like the Druid, and has poison skills and such like the necro. The Monk is like the Paladin, he uses the same auras, but he doesn't use heavy armor, he's all about speed and dodging and super martial arts skills rather than strength. And the Barbarian in D3 is much better, was kind of boring in D2, I also preferred the Paladin, but the Barbarian is a good alternative if you want a solid heavy armored melee character with good interesting skills. His Earthquake skill does 2000% dmg (but takes 3 minutes cool down) and he has various other skills for damage and buffs, and nice passive skills. The Necromancer was my first character in D2, I even designed my own build for it (I used my own lightly tweaked version of the hammerdin for paladins).
So far D3 is a fantastic improvement in every way but one, weapons and presumably armor are limited. My Necro build, G&G or God and Grim was a melee skeleton summoner, also poison nova. The only character I've played so far is the barbarian, and he cannot equip any ranged weapons at all. When I played Barbarians in D2 I always gave them a ranged weapon in their secondary weapons slot (they got rid of secondary weapons slots in D3) in case I get a runner or birds that stay at a distance or something because they can be annoying. That was one of my favorite things about D2, that I could equip any weapon and armor I wanted without having to have a skill or feat for it like in the FR games. Well, the birds and runners thing is still a big issue in Diablo 3, which is fine if I have a Demon Hunter in my party, but if I run into a horde of supped up birds in Nightmare Act 3 alone I'll never even see them on my screen because of the lag of my old (2009) computer and just die. The graphics are set as low as possible already, I need to upgrade to a quad core I think.
I'm on the fence about whether I should play a Monk or Witch Doctor next, or maybe the Wizard, they're pretty bad ass. I like that they have both genders too, so I can play as a male Wizard if I want to. Though I'm probably going to play through at least normal with every class and gender because the transition sequences and dialogue is unique for class and gender. The max level is 60 in D3 and easily attainable. At first I was upset that it didn't go higher for the same reason I'm always bothered when games have a level limitation, because it generally means your ability to get stronger is limited and I like getting more and more powerful in games until I'm godly. But in D3 you don't have stat or skill points, every level's stats are predetermined, but with the equipment selection you can boost stats in any direction tremendously, and find better and better equipment the higher you go, and by 60 you've unlocked all your skills and skill runes so you can make any build you want.
By level 60 you're on Inferno difficulty though, if 60 is maximum then that means all the equipment you find in Inferno you'll be able to use already, so there's no strive to get stronger to use the better equipment, only to find it. But considering how tough Inferno is supposed to be, and that I never find equipment I can't use anyway, I suppose it doesn't matter. I think equipment drop is programed to be within your level, like how the monsters level up every time you do. Its much more balanced that way, I gained levels just as fast from starting Nightmare at 30 as I did starting Normal at 1, in D2 you always saw a slow of leveling up even if the enemies were getting stronger. And excessively training to get more powerful, or rushing ahead without training at all makes little difference, which is nice. It's just as fun with smoother more enjoyable gameplay.
Edit: I just made it to Hell Difficulty at level 48, but it wont let me start it till I'm level 50.
Edit: If you play D3 let me know so we can team up. |
-Branimir Draek
Please check out The Church of Lathander and consider converting today. http://www.facebook.com/TheMorninglord
Contact the church to have your sins absolved today. I can perform legal weddings in the name of Lathander. |
Edited by - Branimir on 15 Jun 2012 18:10:25 |
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Gavinfoxx
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2012 : 21:57:28
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I would use whichever setting and lore and timeframe you most prefer.
Here is how I look at things:
3.0e/3.5e: Best if you have lots of system mastery, and want the movers and shakers of the party and the world to be primarily spellcasters, with everyone else related to second fiddle
Pathfinder: Basically 3.55, a set of houserules for 3.5e, which can be easily found online without piracy. Use this with whatever 3.5e books you have, and just mine it for good ideas. Do NOT consider it a balance fix, consider it perhaps an 'ease of reference' fix.
Trailblazer: A small, fancy looking, commercially published in dead tree book that actually went pretty darn far --well, for a dead tree item-- in fixing 3.5e's endemic balance issues. I'd consider this 3.60, maybe.
Frank & K Tomes: A very fun read that helps you identify many of the problems with specific areas of 3.5e rules, as well as an interesting read into the economy of a setting that works under 3.5e rules, and some useful patches. Sadly incomplete. Maybe 3.65 if I had to give it a number.
Ruleofcool's Legend: Maybe this is either '3.75' or 'what 4e should have been'. This is, by far, my preferred form for D20-style roleplay. Completely balanced, very well written, fun to read, has versatile powers, and is free.
4e: A very solid miniatures tactical wargame with optional roleplaying bits. Balanced, but kinda bland, it does what it set out to do... but it sacrifices a lot of things which make characters --numerically-- interesting to do so. Probably the best miniatures wargame of the list, except maybe Legend, and only because Legend doesn't have all the extra options out yet.
5e Preview: This tries to get the feel of lots of older editions, and goes away from a tactical miniatures feel. However, from the rules we've seen, there is still the 3.5e/PF problem of casters overpowering noncasters, even if they did dramatically nerf the sorts of conditions wizard types could do -- but clerics are still seemingly able to do a fighters job and a cleric's job, like in 3.5e, which is an issue. Otherwise pretty streamlined and interesting, but I prefer Legend to this. |
Edited by - Gavinfoxx on 17 Jun 2012 05:06:13 |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2012 : 23:35:42
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| Rule of Cool looks awesome. You forgot to mention, what a great cause. I will be burrowing into this later. Thanks for the heads-up, Gavinfoxx. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Edited by - Fellfire on 17 Jun 2012 00:40:21 |
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Derulbaskul
Senior Scribe
Singapore
408 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2012 : 05:20:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus (snip) I generally do the same thing. Potions and magical healing feels different depending on it's source. A potion brewed by a Cleric of Shar will feel like the pain being numbed, a potion brewed by a Cleric of Lathander will reel refreshed and rejuvenated, a potion brewed by a Cleric of Kossuth will burn your throat and stomach like alcohol when you drink it, a potion brewed by a Cleric of Loviatar will feel like pins and needles, and so on. (snip)
That's seriously brilliant. I have never thought to do that but will now. Thanks for posting this! |
Cheers
D
NB: Please remember: A cannon is a big gun. Canon is what we discuss here. |
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Ozreth
Learned Scribe
206 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2012 : 23:44:24
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TSR (Gary Gygax etc) made D&D in the mid 70s.
Ed Greenwood had been creating The Realms since before D&D came out.
D&D came out and Ed used the Realms to set his D&D game in.
Ed ended up writing articles about FR in Dragon magazine and TSR hired him.
The first Forgotten Realms box came out in 1987.
However, Dragonlance, Greyhawk, and Birthright were already settings for D&D. FR was the 4th setting to be introduced.
In the mid 90s TSR went bankrupt. WotC bought them out.
Now then, as far as FR lore is concerned you can of course use any of it with any game ever. Even non D&D games. It's just a setting or backdrop. I run 3.5 with the 2e FR boxed set. However, if you want to use all the stat blocks for items, monsters, etc you will have to stick with the same editions of realms and D&D or convert the material.
A lot of people here, and in general, will tell you to stick with 3.5 as it is wildly popular, available for free online and still similar enough to older D&D that if you wanted to convert material it wouldn't be too hard. Also, the newest edition that is coming out sometime next year will closely resemble a mix of 1st edition and 3rd edition. So if you play 3rd youll be more comfortable with how D&D as a whole feels. 4e on the other hand is vastly different to every edition of D&D prior and is more rough to convert, and most of it probably wont make it over to 5e.
Waiting for it to come out might see you waiting another year and a half. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4471 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2012 : 02:57:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Ozreth
4e on the other hand is vastly different to every edition of D&D prior and is more rough to convert, and most of it probably wont make it over to 5e.
Actually, it's really not as different when compared to 3E as a lot of people seem to believe. They kept a good portion of 3E's familiar structure (positive scaling for attacks and AC, 3 Saving Throws, Skills, Feats, Iconic spells, a rich and strong multiclassing/hybrid system to create unique characters, post-class achievements (in 3E they were called Prestige Classes, in 4E they're called Paragon Paths), multiple options on character classes and builds, etc.
Sure, how they implemented them in and when are pretty different but to say that it's vastly different from every other edition of the game is a bit exaggerated. As for conversion, I was able to convert nearly every single character I made in 3E (except the Swordsage, that one still eludes me). Really, it's not that hard.
Also, when I looked at the D&D:Next playtest I saw an abundance of 4E mechanics streaming their way into the new system. Advantage is clearly derived from Combat Advantage of 4E. Hit Die used as healing is easily seen as Healing Surges of 4E. At-Will spells (ie. Cantrips) are another 4E, and to a certain extent Pathfinder, mechanical design. Themes are yet again another 4E contribution as are how Backgrounds come to play in character's story. |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator |
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Branimir
Acolyte
USA
27 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 02:34:52
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| Has the new edition been released yet? |
-Branimir Draek
Please check out The Church of Lathander and consider converting today. http://www.facebook.com/TheMorninglord
Contact the church to have your sins absolved today. I can perform legal weddings in the name of Lathander. |
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D&D v3.5 or v4?
