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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Sep 2012 : 01:31:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
How are you doing DD?
I will have an updated map for you soon - I have at least one more locale to add, plus I want to tweak a couple of things. Figure about a week, though, because I am going to be very busy the next few days.
I'm doing really well...semester started a couple weeks ago...wife just had surgery (outpatient)...moved into a smaller house a couple months ago...just went down four children to only three now (from seven)...
Things are actually really good right now!
I'm not finished with my work on this...only waiting and doing a little at a time. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2012 : 21:05:04
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New Version
Added two canon settlements to Shining Planes and adjusted roads accordingly. Changed Carragar to settlement. Added names for Erlkazar and Deep Wash. Corrected Whamite Isles orientation. Made the Underoad purple to denote it is subterranean. Got rid of redundant "The Jaws Straight". Added trail between Kulta and Huddagh (in Sembia). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2012 : 17:00:36
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MT...I'm seriously happier with this map than I think I've ever been with a map before.
Is there really anything else that needs to be done?
If not, I think I will move forward with some of the rougher work regarding the Five Shires Project...although I'm still waiting until after I get my hands on the Elminster's Forgotten Realms book before finishing up...just want to have a certain feel of that book so that I don't miss out on anything awesome that I might want to include in this work. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2012 : 18:02:38
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The only thing I might 'eventually' do is correct the Erlkazar region to match my new FR map I am working on, but that region is three map sections away, and I haven't even started placing icons on the first section yet.
The only other thing I noticed - after posting that - is that I left off Sespech. Only a tiny piece of it shows (Nimpeth) but I am a stickler for details. Out of the seven nations shown (at least in-part), six of the capitals appear on the map... not too shabby. 
New Towns:
Carragar - appears on pg.13 of PftF, and also Ed responded to my question about it in his thread on 8/12/08 (and worth reading if you head that way - the hermitage is now defunct, but the tiny little settlement should still remain). All I did for this one is change it to the appropriate symbol.
Byernadine - appears on the map in The Ghost king, and is briefly mentioned in the book. Me thinks RAS decided to slip someone's name into Realmslore.
Rhios - it appears on a canon map that I 'acquired' at Gencon. More then that I cannot say (but you can always ask Ed and see if he knows anything). 
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
MT...I'm seriously happier with this map than I think I've ever been with a map before.
Thanks for the compliment - it ties in nicely to a conversation I had with Mike Shley at Gencon. A good map makes you want to play there, and know more. A great map can even be better then great lore, because it can pull new people into the setting (the "Hey! Whats THAT?!" phenomena). A bad map makes people play Pathfinder.
EDIT: I will probably also re-do the not-so-pretty hills in Turmish, and maybe the mountains, when I get around to fixing the Erlkazar part. However, that will not change the placement of anything (its more of a facelift - I am never satisified with how something looks). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 04 Oct 2012 18:59:48 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2012 : 21:26:06
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As long as nothing currently on the map will be moved around, then I feel I can move forward.
Still won't be officially working toward finishing until after I get Elminster's Forgotten Realms though... |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2012 : 18:44:58
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Nope, nothing should get moved from this point on. I hadn't expected the stuff in The Shining Plains, otherwise all locations should have been finalized the last time. Anything else I do on the Five Shires conversion map will be of a cosmetic nature.
I still have to flip a few city/town maps around for you, though. Whenever I get bored with the FR map I will work on those (and I get bored a LOT, so no worries). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2012 : 03:56:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Nope, nothing should get moved from this point on. I hadn't expected the stuff in The Shining Plains, otherwise all locations should have been finalized the last time. Anything else I do on the Five Shires conversion map will be of a cosmetic nature.
I still have to flip a few city/town maps around for you, though. Whenever I get bored with the FR map I will work on those (and I get bored a LOT, so no worries).
Excellent! With Elminster's Forgotten Realms in hand, I'm moving forward!  |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2012 : 04:11:33
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| OH! One thing though, can you split the map EXACTLY in half from north to south to fit in a book? |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2012 : 06:51:11
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No problem.
I did it that way so that I could show the maximum amount of geography and have all the labels still be legible when printed on a standard 8½ x 11 paper.
My master-copy map has more on it, so maybe if I split it differently I can have it fit two sheets of paper perfectly. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2012 : 01:23:47
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LOL - looking up something completely unrelated, I happen to be going through issue #269 of Dragon Magazine and found a great article on FR Hin. Apparently we have another kingdom of Halflings - Delmyr!
How the hell did I miss that for so long? And I am not the only one - it should have appeared on the map of the Hordelands in issue #349!
Considering I referenced this issue for some stuff for the Impiltur map (three halfling towns), I am surprised I over looked this. 
On the other hand, I am very excited to have found not only another thing to place on my maps, but it is an entire nation of halflings.
Kung-Fu Hin!  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 22 Oct 2012 01:24:50 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6669 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2012 : 01:37:14
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I think Delmyr's location is such that it is a bit "out of sight, out of mind". Lots of people like the Hordelands. I'm not sure many campaigns are set there though. Be a great place for a "portal trip" side adventure.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2012 : 03:10:05
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I think Delmyr's location is such that it is a bit "out of sight, out of mind". Lots of people like the Hordelands. I'm not sure many campaigns are set there though. Be a great place for a "portal trip" side adventure.
-- George Krashos
OR...a reverse where some Tuigan are suddenly rampaging through the middle of Shaerdon!  |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2012 : 18:33:32
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The Hordleands are fascinating.
I have a new theory where the entirety of 'The Dark Three' arose in that region. We know Myrkul was a prince of Murghōm, and that Bhaal's main temple was the Fortress of the Old Man (Sentinelspire). In another thread just now I mentioned how Bane looks like a half-orc, and how Gruumsh was stomping through some of that region during the Orcgate Wars. Now, I know at some point at least Bane was involved with the Moonsea lands, but that doesn't mean he couldn't have originated elsewhere (I am thinking Semphar).
Plus you have two kingdoms of dwarves there, a gnome kingdom (Songfarla) and two clans of elves (Lythari and normal). The Spiderhaunt Peaks are just begging for some drow in the Underdark, and the same range has a fallen Gnoll kingdom. You have all the monsters and races of both the west and east (OA) available in the same region, along with a smattering of region-specific critters. Add in the fact you have both the lost Imaskari lands (including at least a dozen fallen 'survivor state'), and high levels of Fey/druidic activity associated with both the Raumvari and Lythari, means there should not only me all sorts of truly ancient magical ruins and mysteries, but also a great many portals leading to 'elsewhere' (I feel that the entire region has undergone a 'weakening of the veil' between worlds - the barrier is thinnest there).
But alas, this is a halfling thread. I just can't get the picture of Samurai and Ninja hin out of my head now. I had considering making shojo Oriental halflings, but now they can just be an offshoot (a group of ghostwise granted special 'gifts' by a celestial dragon, perhaps).
Unfortunately, Delmyr got dumped right alongside my homebrew lore on the Fankiang (Hobgoblins), so I have to rethink a few things. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 22 Oct 2012 22:18:01 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2013 : 23:13:11
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I've recently been working quite a bit more on this...I appreciate all the input from all!
MT, is there any way you could send me the "best" version of the map you have either by email, dropbox or whatever? Highest/Best resolution you have please sir! |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2013 : 01:02:55
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| I have no higher resolution one then this one at DeviantART. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2013 : 05:06:45
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| Thanks MT! As always, you are the best! |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2014 : 08:07:53
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| Unfortunately, this project is on hold for an indeterminate amount of time pending completion of my first publication effort. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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thenightgaunt
Acolyte
USA
41 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2014 : 01:11:58
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I actually did almost the same thing. Just in a different location
I ran a campaign based around chronomancy and the PC's convincing groups of refugees to relocate to a region where they were building a new city.
The city north of the High Moor (replacing "modern day" Secomber) and I wanted the city to be mostly non-human. So I placed the 5 Shires in the empty territory south of the Evermoors. The first Trollwar of Waterdeep would have destroyed them but the PC's convinced them to flee south. I also got to use the Dwarves of Rockhome to create a viable version of Ilfaren (for the same reason). The result was a mostly dwarf/halfling city where Secomber used to be.
The books might be Mystaran but they make for fantastic demihuman settlements and give them a level of detail that players often love. Heck, my Rockhome was a more interesting place than my Waterdeep. Though I may not really have the feel for running the latter properly. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2014 : 21:18:37
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| How did I miss this for so long! Excellent ideas thenightgaunt! |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2014 : 03:37:09
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I put the Nentir Vale in Athwater Vale (that same region around Secomber, south of The High Forest. It was an excellent fit (I didn't even have to resize it - FR is that BIG). Funny how TSR/WotC never really bothered to develop it as a campaign region - its pretty central to everything else.
My Five Shires sits south of the High Moor, in the Greenfields region (Greenest is supposed to be halfling anyway,and it falls-out between former and possible future halfling realms (Meritan and Sheeland). I also split the continent at that point, which made it easy for me to port-in The Five Shires unchanged (its super-imposed with Luiren, which got moved to the same spot). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 04 Nov 2014 03:37:51 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2015 : 23:52:09
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Yeah...YEARS later this is actually nearer to completion.
I suffer from lack of focus...only excuse I have. 
Will post a link here when it is up! |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36812 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2015 : 00:09:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Yeah...YEARS later this is actually nearer to completion.
I suffer from lack of focus...only excuse I have.
Will post a link here when it is up!
Hey, I just noticed the other day that a project I'd been working on was at least a couple years old... In my case, I'm not the best person at creating things from scratch, and my schedule simply doesn't allow much free time, any more.
Being easily distracted by bright and shiny objects doesn't help.
So don't feel bad about taking a while! |
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11855 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2020 : 17:18:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
I still come back to this and slowly work on it. It just turned out to be more than I had reckoned all those years ago.
I think I just got infected with SageTime...
MT still has a nice map of this here:
https://www.deviantart.com/markustay/art/Five-Shires-FR-Conversion-653017761
You and me both brother. I run in too many directions. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2020 : 08:28:37
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Great Reader Darden,
Master Markustay created that map? It is absolutely stunning! Zooming in on that area is mind blowing with the detail as is always the case.
Has he done additional maps for the Shires as well?
Best regards,
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11855 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2020 : 21:59:46
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Hey Dalor,
I just went to the second page of this thread to see the timeline you were putting together because of something someone else said in another thread. I didn't think you were having any relation between these halflings and the halflings in Luiren. However, with all the halflings that supposedly came through in Calimshan, did you make any ties there? Just curious, because I don't think they've ever done anything with that. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2020 : 23:51:53
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Great Reader sleyvas,
Do you happen to know if Explorer Markustay was the one that created the map for the Five Shires? It is amazing!
Best regards,
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2020 : 16:29:20
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Hey Dalor,
I just went to the second page of this thread to see the timeline you were putting together because of something someone else said in another thread. I didn't think you were having any relation between these halflings and the halflings in Luiren. However, with all the halflings that supposedly came through in Calimshan, did you make any ties there? Just curious, because I don't think they've ever done anything with that.
I was digging around in my timeline and I found the stuff below. I put this together a long time ago so I have put in italics the stuff I believe to not be canon.
-7800:
The Great Arrival: The noble djinni lord Calim arrives in Faerūn followed by the Djen, an entourage of genies and their human and halfling slaves. The djinni lord quickly seizes all the lands south and west of the Marching Mountains and founds the Calim Empire on the present-day site of Calimport.
-7790:
The Dragon Wars: A Flight of Dragons destroys the city of Calimport. This event initiates a century of war pitting Calim and the genies against the dragons. By its end, every dragon in the Marching Mountains dies at the hands and magic of the genies. The genies magic rebuilds Calimport within a year of its initial destruction.
It is during this time that the elves and dwarves of Forest of Mir and the Alimir Mountains first encounter escaped human and halfling slaves of the Calim Empire. They quickly decide to help them relocate to the southeast of the Lake of Steam. The Calim Empire loses slaves at a rate of 1 of every 14 human slaves and 2 of every 11 halfling slaves per year.
-6000:
Humans return from the Lluirwood Forest, which stretches from the River Ammath in the west to the River Gundar in the east, and from the Toadsquat Mountains all the way to the shore of the Luirenstrand. They report three distinct tribes of hin living in that region.
Human nomads start to roam the Shaar in numbers. Trade with the gold dwarves of the Great Rift begins.
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"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11855 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2020 : 19:55:25
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quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Hey Dalor,
I just went to the second page of this thread to see the timeline you were putting together because of something someone else said in another thread. I didn't think you were having any relation between these halflings and the halflings in Luiren. However, with all the halflings that supposedly came through in Calimshan, did you make any ties there? Just curious, because I don't think they've ever done anything with that.
I was digging around in my timeline and I found the stuff below. I put this together a long time ago so I have put in italics the stuff I believe to not be canon.
-7800:
The Great Arrival: The noble djinni lord Calim arrives in Faerūn followed by the Djen, an entourage of genies and their human and halfling slaves. The djinni lord quickly seizes all the lands south and west of the Marching Mountains and founds the Calim Empire on the present-day site of Calimport.
-7790:
The Dragon Wars: A Flight of Dragons destroys the city of Calimport. This event initiates a century of war pitting Calim and the genies against the dragons. By its end, every dragon in the Marching Mountains dies at the hands and magic of the genies. The genies magic rebuilds Calimport within a year of its initial destruction.
It is during this time that the elves and dwarves of Forest of Mir and the Alimir Mountains first encounter escaped human and halfling slaves of the Calim Empire. They quickly decide to help them relocate to the southeast of the Lake of Steam. The Calim Empire loses slaves at a rate of 1 of every 14 human slaves and 2 of every 11 halfling slaves per year.
-6000:
Humans return from the Lluirwood Forest, which stretches from the River Ammath in the west to the River Gundar in the east, and from the Toadsquat Mountains all the way to the shore of the Luirenstrand. They report three distinct tribes of hin living in that region.
Human nomads start to roam the Shaar in numbers. Trade with the gold dwarves of the Great Rift begins.
Gotcha, the italicized section is his own add it looks like? Guessing that's the case because that's not what's in the GHotR. However, what that's showing is that some of the Calishite halflings homebrew went down to Luiren. It provides no linkage between the calishite halflings and this variation on the five shires (side note, I had thought that at one point they were trying to put this located less in Turmish and more on the lake of steam area so as it could be an easier insert without affecting the neighbors as much since the border kingdoms have always been a lot more fluid).
EDIT: Yeah, I know now why I could have sworn that they wanted it in the lake of steam areas. It was where he originally thought he could put it and he must have somewhere or other put out a concept sketch. At that time he had a ton of concept sketches he was floating out.
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=21420
I will say from a lore standpoint, I still think that's a better place to put it (i.e. in the erlkazar/ lake of steam/border kingdoms area), because it won't "step on" the surrounding regions like Cormyr as much. It puts it closer to the Shaar and Calimshan, which can have some idea that some of the halflings came from Calimshan to form some kind of realm after the fall of genie rule. Also, the concept of the "black flame" special material is something that could be equated to the efreeti as well. Maybe
Also to note, Markustay actually has a newer version than the map previously referenced. Its still near Turmish for that one, but its probably a better placement. Still think that the Lake of Steam area makes more sense for having a sudden realm appear without conflicting with lore on Cormyr, Sembia, etc... who would be involved with a nearby halfling people (less so with the border kingdoms, shaar, etc....).
https://www.deviantart.com/markustay/art/NEW-5-Shires-coversion-for-FR-2-0-656703763
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 22 Nov 2020 21:14:00 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2020 : 20:47:32
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I left it open on purpose. Trying to tie it to a concrete connection in Faerun just wasn't how I saw the founding of the Five Shires.
So I simply wrote it as:
Circa -950 DR The Early Days. The coming of halflings to Faerdinel and the building of Faerdinel Keep. The Hin make contact with the Gentle Folk, a group of pacifist elven folk who start to mentor the Halflings. Hin records do not indicate where these Hin come from; but many suspect after excavations that the Hin of The Five Shires may have been slaves belonging to Netherese Spelljamming Arcanists which fought for their freedom and forced the ship they were on to crash where Faerdinel was founded. Whether these Hin were from Faerun or some other world is unknown. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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The Five Shires of the Forgotten Realms
