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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36891 Posts |
 Posted - 05 May 2012 : 17:35:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
@Dennis - the Marvel Universe is amazingly detailed and quite complex, and I often use it as my 'fall-back canon' when I need to fill-in a piece of missing D&D lore.
They've had 50+ years to work all the kinks out with magic, physics, 'cosmic beings', etc.. still far from perfect (most of us are still wondering what the heck powers Doctor Strange has), but its prettty damn good.
They have the advantage of time.
I wonder...Was there a time when it felt as though the setting got 'stagnant,' like, as many claim, what happened to Dragonlance?
For me, Marvel got stagnant because of the near-daily threats to all of existence. With how slow comics time is, it began to feel like the heroes had some dire threat to face every other day. I felt like they should have these things on their daily planners... "Hey, Kitty, want to go see a movie on Friday night?" "Nope, sorry, I'll be busy -- Skrull Invasion XVI kicks off that afternoon."
My problem with Dragonlance was that after the Chronicles and the Legends, there was a period of time when they focused on the history of Krynn, whether it was the (sometimes nonsensical and/or contradictory) various background stories of the Heroes of the Lance*, or focusing on characters that had lived in various times in Krynn's past. At that time, there were 5 trilogies out, but only two were set in the present. And that's when I discovered the Realms...
*Nonsensical: So Sturm goes to the moon with Kitiara, and doesn't see fit to ever mention that to his companions? Contradictory: in the beginning of the Chronicles, Raistlin has problems casting sleep or wizard lock, but in one of the Tales books, there's a pre-Chronicles short story where he casually casts like 4 polymorph spells. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 05 May 2012 17:38:34 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2012 : 01:29:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
@Dennis - the Marvel Universe is amazingly detailed and quite complex, and I often use it as my 'fall-back canon' when I need to fill-in a piece of missing D&D lore.
They've had 50+ years to work all the kinks out with magic, physics, 'cosmic beings', etc.. still far from perfect (most of us are still wondering what the heck powers Doctor Strange has), but its prettty damn good.
They have the advantage of time.
I wonder...Was there a time when it felt as though the setting got 'stagnant,' like, as many claim, what happened to Dragonlance?
For me, Marvel got stagnant because of the near-daily threats to all of existence. With how slow comics time is, it began to feel like the heroes had some dire threat to face every other day. I felt like they should have these things on their daily planners... "Hey, Kitty, want to go see a movie on Friday night?" "Nope, sorry, I'll be busy -- Skrull Invasion XVI kicks off that afternoon."
Maybe they see it necessary because it's "tested and proven" to sell well? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3746 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2012 : 02:16:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
@Dennis - the Marvel Universe is amazingly detailed and quite complex, and I often use it as my 'fall-back canon' when I need to fill-in a piece of missing D&D lore.
They've had 50+ years to work all the kinks out with magic, physics, 'cosmic beings', etc.. still far from perfect (most of us are still wondering what the heck powers Doctor Strange has), but its prettty damn good.
They have the advantage of time.
I wonder...Was there a time when it felt as though the setting got 'stagnant,' like, as many claim, what happened to Dragonlance?
I've had this argument with many a folk who claim the same. The DRAGONLANCE setting was only stagnant for a very brief period. It wasn't long after the whole focus on the Heroes of the Lance, that the setting starting moving forward again with the Age of Mortals -- focusing on the introduction of many new characters, lands, and fresh events that furthered fleshed out a great deal of new locations across Ansalon. |
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36891 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2012 : 04:20:31
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
@Dennis - the Marvel Universe is amazingly detailed and quite complex, and I often use it as my 'fall-back canon' when I need to fill-in a piece of missing D&D lore.
They've had 50+ years to work all the kinks out with magic, physics, 'cosmic beings', etc.. still far from perfect (most of us are still wondering what the heck powers Doctor Strange has), but its prettty damn good.
They have the advantage of time.
I wonder...Was there a time when it felt as though the setting got 'stagnant,' like, as many claim, what happened to Dragonlance?
I've had this argument with many a folk who claim the same. The DRAGONLANCE setting was only stagnant for a very brief period. It wasn't long after the whole focus on the Heroes of the Lance, that the setting starting moving forward again with the Age of Mortals -- focusing on the introduction of many new characters, lands, and fresh events that furthered fleshed out a great deal of new locations across Ansalon.
Sorry, friend Sage, but that stagnant period last long enough for me to get utterly bored by the setting, and to seek out another one.  |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2012 : 05:04:40
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I would have continued to adore Dragonlance if they hadn't killed off two of Caramon's sons in essentially the prologue of a novel!
I was devastated. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36891 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2012 : 15:31:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
I would have continued to adore Dragonlance if they hadn't killed off two of Caramon's sons in essentially the prologue of a novel!
I was devastated.
Yeah, I was not a fan of that one... I've no objection to character death, if handled correctly, but I really would have preferred to see them do something more. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2012 : 16:16:32
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Yeah, that sounds as bad as a cool character getting killed-off in an off-hand comment made a hundred years later.... hmmmmm... 
The only DL novel I was ever tempted to buy was one I saw about the Minotaurs. I love Minotaurs (and centaurs, and anything else derived from Greek myth).
When I posted about the Proemial gods (from marvel) the other day, i was on one of those 'Wiki-hunts' for usable lore, and was sorely tempted to marry some aspects of the chromatic lanterns story-arc (the emotional spectrum) to my latest model on magical energies. Not sure if its going to work, though (which also tries to put that together with alignments and schools of magic... and maybe the nine hells...) |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 07 May 2012 15:15:39 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36891 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2012 : 16:46:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The only DL novel I was ever tempted to buy was one I saw about the Minotaurs. I love Minotaurs (and centaurs, and anything else derived from Greek myth).
I've lost interest in the setting, but when I had to replace all my books, I went out of my way to replace the Dragonlance books by Weis & Hickman. I was intro'ed to that writing duo by the Chronicles and Legends, and they remain some of the very few authors that can sell me a book by putting their names on them.
Weis & Hickman are also among the very few authors who have made me mourn the death of a character.
I've actually been thinking of re-reading those books, of late... Too many books, too little time!  |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 06 May 2012 16:47:51 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2012 : 17:36:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The only DL novel I was ever tempted to buy was one I saw about the Minotaurs. I love Minotaurs (and centaurs, and anything else derived from Greek myth).
You should seek out the "Minotaur" trilogy by Richard Knaak, that sets the new stage for the Minotaur realms -- and their partial conquest of south-eastern Ansalon -- in the post-War of Souls era. |
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Patrakis
Learned Scribe
Canada
256 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2012 : 03:10:55
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THe HArn Setting was introduced in the late 70s by Columbia Games in conjonction with their rules system Harnmaster.
It is a very detailed setting but quite small in scope. The area covered is about the size of the UK. The planet was covered in broad strokes over the years but the main project has always been the isle of Harn.
Its creator, Robin Crossby, died a couple of years ago but the setting still lives on at columbia games and they are putting out 4 or 5 products per year.
It's a very low magic setting with a lot of details given to political intrigue, the way of life of its people and minute details about it fauna, its flora and the day to day life. I never seen a world described with such details.
Its a very interesting read and very close to actual medieval life.
Pat
quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
quote:
Originally posted by Patrakis
I will vote for Harn as my first choice for a detailed setting.
Pat
What is the Harn setting from?
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Dancing is like standing still, but faster.
My site: http://www.patoumonde.com |
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Patrakis
Learned Scribe
Canada
256 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2012 : 03:26:55
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If you are looking for a physical map, i know they sell a big poster map of Harn on the columbia web site.
If you meant digital, i dont think there is one avaiable. I'll check around.
Pat
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Harn looks nice and compact - good to run a campaign in. I wish I could find a larger map somewhere.
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Dancing is like standing still, but faster.
My site: http://www.patoumonde.com |
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Patrakis
Learned Scribe
Canada
256 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2012 : 03:36:06
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Well, after a quick search, i've found an official site other than Columbia games that sells new product for the world of Harn.
CHeck it out, i'm pretty sure you'll find a map that answers your need.
http://www.kelestia.com/files/Harn_Regional_Map_Preview.pdf
PAt
quote:
Originally posted by Patrakis
If you are looking for a physical map, i know they sell a big poster map of Harn on the columbia web site.
If you meant digital, i dont think there is one avaiable. I'll check around.
Pat
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Harn looks nice and compact - good to run a campaign in. I wish I could find a larger map somewhere.
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Dancing is like standing still, but faster.
My site: http://www.patoumonde.com |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2012 : 15:19:34
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| Thanks for the link. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2012 : 01:28:51
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I'm not permanently ignoring the newer DL novels. It's just that nothing catches my attention...yet. Same goes for Ebberon. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2012 : 02:38:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I'm not permanently ignoring the newer DL novels. It's just that nothing catches my attention...yet. Same goes for Ebberon.
Neither DRAGONLANCE nor EBERRON have received many new novels since the introduction of 4e D&D. In fact, new novels for DRAGONLANCE haven't appeared at all -- just reprints and omnibus editions of classic trilogies. |
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2012 : 18:38:17
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I think you are mistaken. In 2011, The Shard Axe by Marsheila Rockwell was released. And in 2010, there were 4 new novels. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2012 : 01:17:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I think you are mistaken. In 2011, The Shard Axe by Marsheila Rockwell was released. And in 2010, there were 4 new novels.
I'm not mistaken. I didn't say there weren't any, just not many. I remember those few novels release in 2010 and 2011 -- but when compared to the number of EBERRON novels recently annually in the period before 4e, well, it demonstrates how much the new releases have dropped off. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Sightless
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2012 : 03:21:25
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quote:
Originally posted by xaviera
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Jack Vance had an amazing way of drawing you into his world without an over-abundance of detail - his style had an immersion-level all its own. He just casually dropped the names of unknown things, and acted as if the reader was supposed to know what those were. What should have been annoying instead pulled you right in.
Seconded. The Tschai (City of the Chasch, Servants of the Wanak, the Dirdir, the Pnume) series is great for that. The Durdane trilogy (The Anome, The Brave Free Men, The Asutra) is also good for that.
I also like the world of the Narnia books, which I reread pretty much every year.
Agreed, like them as well, but then again as Lewis and Tolkien were firends what do you expect.
I also really like Robert Howards world, to me it was very well thought out, history wise and everything. |
We choose to live a lie, when we see with, & not through the eye.
Every decision, no matter the evidence, is a leap of faith; if it were not, then it wouldn't be a choice at all. |
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Xnella Moonblade-Thann
Learned Scribe
USA
234 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2012 : 08:50:46
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| I know another setting that has a lot of detail. Has anyone here ever seen any of the "Avatar: The Last Airbender" or "The Legend of Korra" episodes? That world is AMAZING in my opinion. They have interesting hybrid creatures (like armadillo-bears, turtle-lions, and polar bear-dogs), lots of places where the veil between the 'real' world and the spirit world is thin, and an awesome explanaion of why people can control the four elements. Heck, some of the characters in the show even created new ways to bend, like finding earth/rock impurities in metal to bend, or controlling a person's movements (a human's body is like what? 70% water?). In the original series (The Last Airbender), their technology was at about industrial-level, but in "Legend of Korra" they've moved up to about 1920's tech. I've been trying to create that world using D&D mechanics, but unfortunately i've hit a brick wall. |
"Sweet water and light laughter until next we meet." - traditional elven farewell
Please forgive any spelling and grammer errors, as my android touch-screen phone has no spellchecker. If I do make a grammer mistake, please let me know and I'll try to fix it.
New laptop, still trying to sort my "scrolls" on its shelves...and when will this cursed thing stop doing things I tell it not to? |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2012 : 15:21:34
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I'm a fan of the Avatar series, but I wasn't able to keep up with it after the 1st season (unfortunately). Someday I'll buy them on DvD.
I borrow quite a bit from Anime for my spirit realm - there are quite a few good ones. I don't steal them wholesale - just cherry-pick the juicier bits. Oriental cosmology doesn't really differentiate (much) between creatures who are not of the material plane - fey, the dead, demons, etc... even deities... are all just 'spirits'. A lot of my own ideas have grown out of that.
Three others (that are not about spirits) that I like are Pirates of Dark Waters (I love sea-based campaigns), Full Metal Alchemist (the magic is pretty awesome), and Thunder Cats (cool creatures in it).
Inspiration can be found everywhere, if you look hard enough (even from programs that are pretty dopey).
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 11 May 2012 15:23:07 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3746 Posts |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2012 : 04:22:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Xnella Moonblade-Thann
I know another setting that has a lot of detail. Has anyone here ever seen any of the "Avatar: The Last Airbender" or "The Legend of Korra" episodes? That world is AMAZING in my opinion. They have interesting hybrid creatures (like armadillo-bears, turtle-lions, and polar bear-dogs), lots of places where the veil between the 'real' world and the spirit world is thin, and an awesome explanaion of why people can control the four elements. Heck, some of the characters in the show even created new ways to bend, like finding earth/rock impurities in metal to bend, or controlling a person's movements (a human's body is like what? 70% water?). In the original series (The Last Airbender), their technology was at about industrial-level, but in "Legend of Korra" they've moved up to about 1920's tech. I've been trying to create that world using D&D mechanics, but unfortunately i've hit a brick wall.
I watch both series. Fascinating world with a lot of interesting, well fleshed out characters.
I think the Water Benders would have been the most powerful ones---that is, if they could bend blood even without the aid of the full moon (or is it eclipse? It's been a long time since I watched the first series, and the second is only on its sixth episode yet). If they could, then they could easily control all benders (their blood are largely made of water).
I must admit, though, that Korra is sometimes a bit...cheesy. I don't mind the romantic angle, but the main reason I'm watching the series is to see great adventures and the intricacies of their unique form of 'magic.' I couldn't care for romance that much. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Xnella Moonblade-Thann
Learned Scribe
USA
234 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2012 : 08:36:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I watch both series. Fascinating world with a lot of interesting, well fleshed out characters.
I think the Water Benders would have been the most powerful ones---that is, if they could bend blood even without the aid of the full moon (or is it eclipse? It's been a long time since I watched the first series, and the second is only on its sixth episode yet). If they could, then they could easily control all benders (their blood are largely made of water).
I must admit, though, that Korra is sometimes a bit...cheesy. I don't mind the romantic angle, but the main reason I'm watching the series is to see great adventures and the intricacies of their unique form of 'magic.' I couldn't care for romance that much.
During the full moon a Waterbender who does know how to blood-bend would be more likely "compelled" to do so because the moon has the effect of making their waterbending stronger in general. I don't believe this is cannon, but I think that Waterbenders can feel the "push and pull" of the moon during the phases more than say a non-Waterbender could.
You also have to realize that out of all the benders, Firebenders in general are the more powerful ones in that they create fire (and some can create lightning). But the fact that they can be overshadowed by one of the chi-blockers (or a blood-bending Waterbender, pick your poison  ) it makes for a more even playing field. |
"Sweet water and light laughter until next we meet." - traditional elven farewell
Please forgive any spelling and grammer errors, as my android touch-screen phone has no spellchecker. If I do make a grammer mistake, please let me know and I'll try to fix it.
New laptop, still trying to sort my "scrolls" on its shelves...and when will this cursed thing stop doing things I tell it not to? |
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Sightless
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2012 : 09:13:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Xnella Moonblade-Thann
I know another setting that has a lot of detail. Has anyone here ever seen any of the "Avatar: The Last Airbender" or "The Legend of Korra" episodes? That world is AMAZING in my opinion. They have interesting hybrid creatures (like armadillo-bears, turtle-lions, and polar bear-dogs), lots of places where the veil between the 'real' world and the spirit world is thin, and an awesome explanaion of why people can control the four elements. Heck, some of the characters in the show even created new ways to bend, like finding earth/rock impurities in metal to bend, or controlling a person's movements (a human's body is like what? 70% water?). In the original series (The Last Airbender), their technology was at about industrial-level, but in "Legend of Korra" they've moved up to about 1920's tech. I've been trying to create that world using D&D mechanics, but unfortunately i've hit a brick wall.
A friend of mine did it with Exalted from white wolf.
there's a group that's part of the game that's powers are all based around one of the elements, although, in classic chinese style, they added wood. |
We choose to live a lie, when we see with, & not through the eye.
Every decision, no matter the evidence, is a leap of faith; if it were not, then it wouldn't be a choice at all. |
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Entromancer
Senior Scribe
USA
388 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2012 : 23:09:31
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I had to vote "Other." I am very partial to All-World, from Stephen King's Dark Tower series. While he doesn't go into the depth of detail as do Greenwood and Tolkien, I like the flavor of the setting. Essentially you have a world where magic was once rampant, then began to receded as humanity advanced towards a society similar to ours. That eventually became something more technologically advanced. Then things began to backslide with the re-emergence of magic, or the Prim as it is known.
The races there are also interesting, from the vampire caste system to the taheen and can-toi to the demons that guard various portals throughout All-World. |
"...the will is everything. The will to act."--Ra's Al Ghul
"Suffering builds character."--Talia Al Ghul |
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Sightless
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2012 : 23:51:36
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After finding the pole, sheepish grin, I picked other.
Why?
Robert Howard, Jrrt, and Jordon, are all very good as far as world building is concerned, but I cant dismiss the burning spear sagas, the Morgan cycle, or the Xeztaga cycle either. I still rmember wearing out my fingers daya after day getting through the Song of Zetathan, whose descriptions of scents truly touched me in more ways than I can say. The same for the burning spear; a book work the monsters are actually the protagonists for once. One can also see the impact of both of these works on Howard and Tolkien as well.
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We choose to live a lie, when we see with, & not through the eye.
Every decision, no matter the evidence, is a leap of faith; if it were not, then it wouldn't be a choice at all. |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2012 : 03:08:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Sightless
After finding the pole, sheepish grin, I picked other.
Why?
Robert Howard, Jrrt, and Jordon, are all very good as far as world building is concerned, but I cant dismiss the burning spear sagas, the Morgan cycle, or the Xeztaga cycle either. I still rmember wearing out my fingers daya after day getting through the Song of Zetathan, whose descriptions of scents truly touched me in more ways than I can say. The same for the burning spear; a book work the monsters are actually the protagonists for once. One can also see the impact of both of these works on Howard and Tolkien as well.
Author? |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2012 : 03:13:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Xnella Moonblade-Thann
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I watch both series. Fascinating world with a lot of interesting, well fleshed out characters.
I think the Water Benders would have been the most powerful ones---that is, if they could bend blood even without the aid of the full moon (or is it eclipse? It's been a long time since I watched the first series, and the second is only on its sixth episode yet). If they could, then they could easily control all benders (their blood are largely made of water).
I must admit, though, that Korra is sometimes a bit...cheesy. I don't mind the romantic angle, but the main reason I'm watching the series is to see great adventures and the intricacies of their unique form of 'magic.' I couldn't care for romance that much.
During the full moon a Waterbender who does know how to blood-bend would be more likely "compelled" to do so because the moon has the effect of making their waterbending stronger in general. I don't believe this is cannon, but I think that Waterbenders can feel the "push and pull" of the moon during the phases more than say a non-Waterbender could.
You also have to realize that out of all the benders, Firebenders in general are the more powerful ones in that they create fire (and some can create lightning). But the fact that they can be overshadowed by one of the chi-blockers (or a blood-bending Waterbender, pick your poison ) it makes for a more even playing field.
What use would creating your fire be when you yourself can be controlled by a Waterbender.
The exact distance/reach of a Waterbender to blood-bend, was it ever revealed? If they could do it to anyone they see, regardless of distance...then that'd make them all the more formidable. Even the chi-blockers wouldn't stand a chance.
And oh! How could we ignore the Metalbenders! I've been fond of metal-manipulation ever since knowing Magneto. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Xnella Moonblade-Thann
Learned Scribe
USA
234 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2012 : 01:32:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
And oh! How could we ignore the Metalbenders! I've been fond of metal-manipulation ever since knowing Magneto.
As was stated on today's episode (May 19th) of "The Legend of Korra", metals such as platinum, as well as ones that have been refined to such a degree of purity, are essentially unbendable. The only reason that Metalsbenders can, well, metalbend, is because they can sense the rock and earthen impurities in metal. But ya, they are cool !
As for Waterbenders that can bloodbend, my opinion is that it has to be relatively close - probably within 30 feet. That's close enough to get fried if'n ya ain't careful. |
"Sweet water and light laughter until next we meet." - traditional elven farewell
Please forgive any spelling and grammer errors, as my android touch-screen phone has no spellchecker. If I do make a grammer mistake, please let me know and I'll try to fix it.
New laptop, still trying to sort my "scrolls" on its shelves...and when will this cursed thing stop doing things I tell it not to? |
Edited by - Xnella Moonblade-Thann on 20 May 2012 01:33:48 |
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