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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31798 Posts |
 Posted - 16 May 2012 : 05:06:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-Geeze, what is wrong with you people!? Come on, Erik. Let's Moogle Dance outta here and head to the Colosseum.
I get the Moogle-reference, strangely.
[Always thought about how they'd translate into the Realms, actually.] |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36844 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2012 : 05:07:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Sightless
I played contra, you didn't need eyes for some of that, but there have been a few that did I've played anyway.
Zelda sure did, but hay we had a blast.
That's one of the ones I made a point of downloading for the Wii -- the original Zelda. And when I played for the first time in years, I still pulled my favorite trick: getting the white sword without ever getting the brown one. 
Would Link be a thief, in D&D? He uses magic items, including a wand, goes into dungeons to steal everything not nailed down, dodging various traps among the way, isn't so great in combat without all the right toys...  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2012 : 08:38:05
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| Garret the Kepper from "Thief" The Dark Project pc game! |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4454 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2012 : 10:50:14
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| I think my favorite Thief in fantasy is Azoth (aka, Kylar Stern) from Brent Weeks's Night Angel Trilogy. From the list posted, I'm a fan of Jace Beleran (Magic: The Gathering). Also, Nicolai beat me to it about Garret from the Thief video games (espically, the Deadly Shadows version). |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2012 : 14:01:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
I think my favorite Thief in fantasy is Azoth (aka, Kylar Stern) from Brent Weeks's Night Angel Trilogy. From the list posted, I'm a fan of Jace Beleran (Magic: The Gathering). Also, Nicolai beat me to it about Garret from the Thief video games (espically, the Deadly Shadows version).
You don't Kylar's ultra-assassin side overshadowed the thief side? |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
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Lady Shadowflame
Learned Scribe
115 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2012 : 14:32:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Cassie5squared
Bilbo Baggins is one of my beloved fantasy thieves, even though I don't often think of him as such. Without him my favourite books wouldn't exist. :P
My other favourite is Silk, aka Prince Kheldar, of the Belgariad series by David Eddings. One of the snarkiest and most talented in the profession of thieving/spying/assassination/etc, and one of the main reasons the books make me giggle so much. :D
Hurrah, you mentioned Silk! I was thinking "Heyyy, why isn't he in the poll?", myself. |
Save a lizard... Ride a drow.
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4454 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2012 : 14:37:24
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quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
I think my favorite Thief in fantasy is Azoth (aka, Kylar Stern) from Brent Weeks's Night Angel Trilogy. From the list posted, I'm a fan of Jace Beleran (Magic: The Gathering). Also, Nicolai beat me to it about Garret from the Thief video games (espically, the Deadly Shadows version).
You don't think Kylar's ultra-assassin side overshadowed the thief side?
No, because I'm clumping both Thief & assassin into one whole aspect. I think both of these traits are pretty impressive and make for a great Rogue-ish character |
Edited by - Diffan on 16 May 2012 14:55:39 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2012 : 15:24:22
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I agree with entreri, Kylar's assassin side pretty much overshadowed the thief in him. Even his wizardly powers are used often for one purpose alone: to kill... |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2012 : 15:36:04
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I could certainly see an argument for Link being a thief, rather than a fighter. And there have been numerous times in the Zelda franchise where the only way to advance was to fight in a very cheap, dishonorable way (backstab, attack from hiding, etc). If I were building him in D&D terms, rogue would probably be his class, just to have easy access to the skills required in 3.5 (such as move silently/hide, trap sense, use magic device). 4e has more freedom in design (at least for NPCs), so a statblock for Link would be easier there.
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-Geeze, what is wrong with you people!? Come on, Erik. Let's Moogle Dance outta here and head to the Colosseum.
Kupo!
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I played Chrono Trigger, does that count?
I'll have to give you that one, on an honorary basis. 
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I get the Moogle-reference, strangely.
[Always thought about how they'd translate into the Realms, actually.]
I'd use halfling (small, cute, etc.) as a mechanical chassis and go from there.
The old Final Fantasy titles, despite their extremely outdated graphics and propensity for total random weirdness (like moogles), had pretty awesome story lines attached.
Back on topic for thiefliness!
There is something about thieves that makes them natural to root for. Even though they're supposed to be the bad guy, they just go about it with such charm and style that they become easy heroes.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2012 : 15:41:29
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Ah, well. Link from the Legend of Neil retelling of Zelda is most definitely not above being an opportunistic thief. Although admittedly not a particularly skilled one.quote:
Erik Scott de Bie
There is something about thieves that makes them natural to root for. Even though they're supposed to be the bad guy, they just go about it with such charm and style that they become easy heroes.
Interestingly, this is exaggerated in the (somewhat awful) D&D movies. For example, in the second movie, Nim the "Chaotic Good" Rogue smiles encouragingly and expansively ... then quickly stands behind cover while a nasty fire trap engulfs and roasts his two business partners alive - simply because they had insultingly declined to submit the full payment agreed upon for hiring Nim's criminal services. They'd given Nim a lesser amount and a friendly warning that he'd best be on his way without any trouble ... so he literally murdered two men in premeditated cold blood for his thirty pieces of silver ... or perhaps for nothing more than his satisfaction and revenge if no coin could be found on their incinerated corpses. And yet we the audience are generally compelled to find this sort of behaviour "charming" and "likeable" in a rogue, even a non-dashing and ambiguous one like Nim.
I mean, seriously ... look at the rogue. He skulks around in shadows, would steal from you and your loved ones without hesitation, and instead of fighting fair he'll ambush you from behind with a pair of daggers to the kidneys. Charming indeed. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 16 May 2012 16:03:52 |
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xaviera
Learned Scribe
Canada
149 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2012 : 15:49:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Aulduron
Hanse, AKA Shadowspawn.
Yes. I'll put him second behind Nifft the Lean (Michael Shea) and give Cugel the Clever (Jack Vance) third place.
If sci-fi were included, I'd definitely pick Slippery Jim diGriz, the Stainless Steel Rat (Harry Harrison).
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Writings on Sharess: Thoughts & Prayers by Xaviera ~ High Priestess of Sharess |
Edited by - xaviera on 16 May 2012 15:51:01 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2012 : 16:02:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
There is something about thieves that makes them natural to root for. Even though they're supposed to be the bad guy, they just go about it with such charm and style that they become easy heroes.
Agreed. If we could like a character who kills in regular basis (assassin), how much more a charming one who only steals...most often, for survival... |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31798 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2012 : 16:12:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
I think my favorite Thief in fantasy is Azoth (aka, Kylar Stern) from Brent Weeks's Night Angel Trilogy.
Just to deviate, slightly... What's this trilogy like?
I saw the omnibus edition at my local book store yesterday-eve, and I thought about picking it up. So any reader experiences with these books, would be welcome. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2012 : 16:56:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Interestingly, this is exaggerated in the (somewhat awful) D&D movies.
As an inversion/undermining of the "scoundrel hero" trope, that does have some intellectual merit--i.e., usually you sympathize with rogues despite their shady dealings, but right now I'm going to do something UTTERLY ridiculous and you get to sympathize with me anyway, la dee da. Kind of an ad absurdem argument about the nature of how we look at fantasy tropes.
I mean, assuming that's what they were going for, which I in no way argue.
quote:
I mean, seriously ... look at the rogue. He skulks around in shadows, would steal from you and your loved ones without hesitation, and instead of fighting fair he'll ambush you from behind with a pair of daggers to the kidneys. Charming indeed.
Ah, but that just depends on the rogue. Sure, a hardened badass assassin such as you describe leaves something to be desired, but the things that make a character charming aren't usually his behavior but rather his outlook, personality, and motivation.
In the first Star Wars movie, Han Solo, judged on just his actions (because we all know Han shot first), isn't a particularly likeable or charming character--he rather comes off as just extremely insane. But couple that with his bravado, smooth attitude, and latent noble streak, and you've got a very charming rogue character.
I wonder if the rogue isn't easier for some of us to relate to than the other character tropes because the rogue's skill is more mundane/attainable. Ability-wise, I have less in common with Conan or Elminster than I do with, say, the Grey Mouser. While I lack the rippling muscles or cosmic power, I could actually see myself doing rogue things, with training and practice.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2012 : 17:14:30
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
I think my favorite Thief in fantasy is Azoth (aka, Kylar Stern) from Brent Weeks's Night Angel Trilogy.
Just to deviate, slightly... What's this trilogy like?
I saw the omnibus edition at my local book store yesterday-eve, and I thought about picking it up. So any reader experiences with these books, would be welcome.
Excellent character development. Tinged with grittiness. Fast-paced. Interesting conflict. [But weak world-building.] Planning to re-read it a month or two from now...
There are many characters you would definitely find easy to like. However, don't get too attached, as Weeks kill even his (and his fans') favorite characters. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2012 : 17:45:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
I think my favorite Thief in fantasy is Azoth (aka, Kylar Stern) from Brent Weeks's Night Angel Trilogy.
Just to deviate, slightly... What's this trilogy like?
I saw the omnibus edition at my local book store yesterday-eve, and I thought about picking it up. So any reader experiences with these books, would be welcome.
Excellent character development. Tinged with grittiness. Fast-paced. Interesting conflict. [But weak world-building.] Planning to re-read it a month or two from now...
There are many characters you would definitely find easy to like. However, don't get too attached, as Weeks kill even his (and his fans') favorite characters.
I agree with all of this. Weeks is very easy to read and presents a nice raw and gritty fantasy setting for his characters. One of my favorite things about his Night Angel Trilogy is that he took the time to actually show the reader how the character becomes this super awesome assassin. Highly recommend. |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
Try Audible and Get 2 Free Audio Books! https://amzn.to/2IgBede |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2012 : 17:47:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
I think my favorite Thief in fantasy is Azoth (aka, Kylar Stern) from Brent Weeks's Night Angel Trilogy. From the list posted, I'm a fan of Jace Beleran (Magic: The Gathering). Also, Nicolai beat me to it about Garret from the Thief video games (espically, the Deadly Shadows version).
You don't think Kylar's ultra-assassin side overshadowed the thief side?
No, because I'm clumping both Thief & assassin into one whole aspect. I think both of these traits are pretty impressive and make for a great Rogue-ish character
I guess I alwasy look at assasins as a different category because of their unique skill set. I mean, technically, any character type can be an assassin...but rogues and fighters tend to make the best ones. |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
Try Audible and Get 2 Free Audio Books! https://amzn.to/2IgBede |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2012 : 19:19:42
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quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
I think my favorite Thief in fantasy is Azoth (aka, Kylar Stern) from Brent Weeks's Night Angel Trilogy.
Just to deviate, slightly... What's this trilogy like?
I saw the omnibus edition at my local book store yesterday-eve, and I thought about picking it up. So any reader experiences with these books, would be welcome.
Excellent character development. Tinged with grittiness. Fast-paced. Interesting conflict. [But weak world-building.] Planning to re-read it a month or two from now...
There are many characters you would definitely find easy to like. However, don't get too attached, as Weeks kill even his (and his fans') favorite characters.
I agree with all of this. Weeks is very easy to read and presents a nice raw and gritty fantasy setting for his characters. One of my favorite things about his Night Angel Trilogy is that he took the time to actually show the reader how the character becomes this super awesome assassin. Highly recommend.
I've read criticisms on his style; too simple, many said. But I didn't mind, really. His style didn't exactly take away the fun of the story. If anything, it helped add more fun to it. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3745 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2012 : 20:10:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-Geeze, what is wrong with you people!? Come on, Erik. Let's Moogle Dance outta here and head to the Colosseum.
I played Chrono Trigger, does that count?
-Halfway. If you played Chrono Cross, you get a slight penalty for it sucking so much, and if you played Radical Dreamers, you get a slight bonus for it being pretty cool. Either way, your assignment is to play Final Fantasy VI and report back to me periodically on it's awesomeness. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2012 : 21:11:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
I think my favorite Thief in fantasy is Azoth (aka, Kylar Stern) from Brent Weeks's Night Angel Trilogy.
Just to deviate, slightly... What's this trilogy like?
I saw the omnibus edition at my local book store yesterday-eve, and I thought about picking it up. So any reader experiences with these books, would be welcome.
Excellent character development. Tinged with grittiness. Fast-paced. Interesting conflict. [But weak world-building.] Planning to re-read it a month or two from now...
There are many characters you would definitely find easy to like. However, don't get too attached, as Weeks kill even his (and his fans') favorite characters.
I agree with all of this. Weeks is very easy to read and presents a nice raw and gritty fantasy setting for his characters. One of my favorite things about his Night Angel Trilogy is that he took the time to actually show the reader how the character becomes this super awesome assassin. Highly recommend.
I've read criticisms on his style; too simple, many said. But I didn't mind, really. His style didn't exactly take away the fun of the story. If anything, it helped add more fun to it.
Yeah I agree. His style is fun and easy to follow, while still presenting a story that you care about. It bothers me that scifi/fantasy critics act like everything written in the genre has to be some complex hard-to-follow masterminded story. |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
Try Audible and Get 2 Free Audio Books! https://amzn.to/2IgBede |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2012 : 21:53:52
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Blame Tolkien and others who follow his path... |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2012 : 14:06:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Blame Tolkien and others who follow his path...
Many fantasy critics nowadays misconstrue verbal diarrhea for quality writing. Sadly, many of the "Best/Worst Fantasy Reads" sites also consistently trash authors like RA Salvatore (and usually the entire shared world fantasy setting like the Realms) for being to simple or transparent. IMHO not everything written in the genre has to be the best fantasy book ever written. What ever happened to just enjoying fun to read books?
*sigh |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
Try Audible and Get 2 Free Audio Books! https://amzn.to/2IgBede |
Edited by - Artemas Entreri on 17 May 2012 14:07:19 |
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Sightless
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2012 : 14:32:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Blame Tolkien and others who follow his path...
I think it would be more accurate to blame those that think Tolkien is a paragon point of immulation to which all others should follow. I know the man never thought so, if you read his personal writings to Lewis. Unfortunately, much of his stuff has become the linch pin by which much is judged by, which is unfear to JRRT and to whomever is being compared. |
We choose to live a lie, when we see with, & not through the eye.
Every decision, no matter the evidence, is a leap of faith; if it were not, then it wouldn't be a choice at all. |
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Captain Grafalcon
Learned Scribe
Brazil
129 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2012 : 17:14:52
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| Morik the rogue, the character that becomes Wulfgar“s companion in Path of darkness adds some fun the the story. |
"Surely you recognize that armies carrying banners are almost always thievesuntil they win."
Jarlaxle, mercenary leader of Bregan D'aerthe. |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2012 : 17:17:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Sightless
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Blame Tolkien and others who follow his path...
I think it would be more accurate to blame those that think Tolkien is a paragon point of immulation to which all others should follow. I know the man never thought so, if you read his personal writings to Lewis. Unfortunately, much of his stuff has become the linch pin by which much is judged by, which is unfear to JRRT and to whomever is being compared.
I agree 100%. Besides, there are so many sub-genres of fantasy out in today's market which didn't even exist during Tolkien's time. (Though many might agrue that Fantasy in general didn't exist before Tolkien, let alone sub-genres) A critic whose favorite sub-genre of fantasy is Urban or Gritty probably would not enjoy Tolkien...and vice versa, a critic who only enjoyes Tolkien's High Fantasy style probably thinks the Real Life gritty fantasy (George Martin, Joe Abercrombie, etc) of today's market is atrocious. |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
Try Audible and Get 2 Free Audio Books! https://amzn.to/2IgBede |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2012 : 17:18:50
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| Apologies to the OP for de-railing the main issue of the thread for a bit. Back on topic! |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
Try Audible and Get 2 Free Audio Books! https://amzn.to/2IgBede |
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LastStand
Learned Scribe
130 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2012 : 21:40:37
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Prince Kheldar of Drasnia aka Ambar of Kotu aka Radek of Boktor - from the Belgariad novels by David Eddings.
and
Jimmy the hand |
"Don't. The battlegrounds that you and I have returned from alive are too different."
~ Claymore ch106 |
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Tamsar
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
141 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2012 : 23:32:38
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| Macore. Lets see if anyone knows who he is. |
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light |
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Sightless
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2012 : 23:43:01
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| Kella Blackstar from Justin Throw's Death to the Unicorn was pretty good. I liked her alot at least. She had a way of confounding those folks that thought to highly of themselves. |
We choose to live a lie, when we see with, & not through the eye.
Every decision, no matter the evidence, is a leap of faith; if it were not, then it wouldn't be a choice at all. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2012 : 03:36:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Tamsar
Macore. Lets see if anyone knows who he is.
Your own character, I suppose. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Topic |
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Favorite Thief in Fantasy
