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Aman the Rejected
Acolyte
USA
14 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Dec 2003 : 18:33:08
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I was thinking of bringing spirits into my game that I'm about to take over from the co-DM in a bit. I was curious if there was any canon on this, but more importantly, if anyone else had tried this before (read: what mistakes am I about to make  ).
When I say spirits, I do not mean ghosts in the typical D&D sense. What I'm referring to would be the elven spirit in the tavern in Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance. I'm referring to creatures that 'live' on because they can't bear to leave things unfinished, castles that have so much hope and memories placed in them that they leave a residual building even after destruction, to bascially the ethereal realm with sentience.
What I'm thinking about rules-wise is a spontaneous divine casting class, much like a shaman, where-in spirits are convinced and cojoled to help give some of their essence to fuel spells and the creation of items (much like the Sha'ir class presented in Dragon 315).
Any ideas? I searched the scrolls for the word spirits and found nothing, but I may have missed some with a different term ...
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-"The night went by peacefully and your watch was unsuccessful."
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2003 : 07:55:25
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Hmm...this is certainly interesting.
Outside of the use of Petitioners and Proxies, spirits and, to a lesser extent, 'ghosts' very rarely make an appearance in my campaigns...but this is mainly due to a lack of solid information and published material on handling such creature-types.
One good tome to get your hands on though, is Van Richten's Guide to Ghosts. Although being a 2e Ravenloft setting supplement, it has a wealth of information that works in any type of fantasy campaign. It also provides rules and advice on running ghosts and the restless undead 'creatures that 'live' on because they can't bear to leave things unfinished', as you say.
It also provides some interesting 'theme' twists on common ghost-types.
If you can't find the tome, work up some questions and email them to me. I'll them summarise whatever information I can obtain from the tome, and email it back to you.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2003 : 07:59:20
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Oh, and I forgot...
There's also a 3e RL resource called Van Richten's Guide to the Walking Dead, which has a special section on the Restless dead, and their ghosts. I use alot of the material presented in this tome for my FR campaigns that deal heavily with undead, ghosts, and the like. This tome is currently in print, so you shouldn't have any difficulty finding a copy.
Also, if you're a PS fan, one of the setting supplements (I forget which one at the moment) has rules and stats for using petitioners in a 'ghost-like' fashion.
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2003 : 09:45:05
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You could (in theory) Build upon the Ur-Priest class in BoVD (which is the only Divine spellcaster I have respect for since they are not godslaves).. I merely mention them since they too steal power, but not from souls but from the gods (You go Ur-Priests!!!  ) |
It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2003 : 11:16:00
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What about the Celestial Mystics from BoED Cardinal?. They are an interesting class of Divine spellcaster, and I really wouldn't interpret them as 'godslaves', as you say.
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Edited by - The Sage on 30 Dec 2003 11:17:20 |
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Elrond Half Elven
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
322 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2003 : 16:41:53
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Aman, I have an Old 2nd Edition Shaman Accessory, I dont know if i'm the only one with it, because I have never heard it meantion before. The contents may be useful to you, i woudl recomed trying to get it of off ebay, and then maybe converting the Materials.
Sorry thats all i can offer
Hanx
Elrond |
Once upon a midnight dreary, while i pondered, weak and weary,
Over many a quaint and curious volume of forgotten lore-
While i nodded, nearly napping, suddenly there came a tapping,
As of some one gently rapping, rapping at my chamber door.
-The Raven by Edgar Allan Poe |
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Aman the Rejected
Acolyte
USA
14 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2003 : 17:11:30
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I guess one of the main questions I would have revolves around the spirits of things that weren't alive originally. Imagine, I guess, a plane like the astral or ethereal (which this may very well be, I'm unfamiliar with the specifics of those planes) that coexists in most places with the Material Plane of Toril. Within it are the powerful impressions of things, people, minds, events, and emotions of the Material Plane. Think of the plane as being originally mostly nothing but formed by the vibrations or shockwaves of things on the other plane. Thus, a big battle would leave a huge impression, a castle that stood valiant for hundreds of years would leave an impression, and a simple farmer with a peaceful life may leave a tiny impression.
So my co-DM and I are running a campaign wherein, in plane terms, Toril has suddenly garnered a huge amount of 'gravity'. Other planes are flowing closer and closer and many things are working their way out into the Material Plane. He is running the resurgence of Hellgate Keep with the demons and devils and I wanted to bring in a heretofore unmentioned plane 'leaking' in. Nothing overtly malign, necessarily, but loved ones appearing before ancestors years after deaths, magical items guarded by their own spirits and maybe the spirits of their owners, and finally, a pre-Netheril sentient city slowly coming back to life as its spirit rejoins it.
*whew*
Soooo ... what if the players want to try and discorporate these things? Dispel? Dismiss? Attack? Will they need a special language or spell to communicate? Will they need a special sight or spell to see them? What if the 'ghosts' want to do the same? I know a lot of this is up to me, but I'm really bad with making up rules that work and I'm looking for consistency. |
-"The night went by peacefully and your watch was unsuccessful."
-"What do you mean? Am I blind now?" |
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Aman the Rejected
Acolyte
USA
14 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2003 : 17:22:04
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Elrond,
That sounds interesting. What is the full name of the product?
Thanks! |
-"The night went by peacefully and your watch was unsuccessful."
-"What do you mean? Am I blind now?" |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2003 : 06:31:20
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Shaman is the full name of this AD&D game accessory that Elrond was talking about.
And he is right, looking through the contents of my copy, there is a lot of material that you could use to promote your ideas on ghosts and spirits in your campaign. It contains information on the world of spirits (very useful for what you are proposing), details about what spirits call the "Invisible Landscape' (again, a few details when regarding the planes in your campaign), it also talks about spirits and their relation to the Material Plane (again...with the Planes). It also covers spiritual sites, items, adventures, and some different aspects to role-playing the 'Shaman' class.
As for what you were talking about in your last post...have you considered using the many variations of the Plane of Shadow that are widespread across the internet. Or even making a combination up of the three transitive planes of Ethereal, Astral and Shadow - making one whole plane...this would pretty much cover whatever it is you are trying to do here.
Also you may want to pick up a copy of the Manual of the Planes 3e. It details these planes, and also provides handy construction tools for creating your own.
Overall, looking through some of the tomes I have mentioned, using the rules and advice detailed, and using a little imagination...you should be able to put something together to really fits with the general structure of your campaign.
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2003 : 06:46:08
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Actually, since this item is out of print, I feel safe in offering Shaman as a PDF of a mere 1.13 MB. Should your email account be able to handle file of that size, let me know, and it shall be yours.
The same goes for any other requests. I'm afraid my connection is rather slow, and if I do spend the hour necessary to upload this file, it is merely a simple thing to add a few more address in the Send box. However, if no one else wants it, then I'm not about to reload it each time. So, first come . . . etc. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2003 : 07:15:41
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| Pretty sure, actually. Though as stated elsewhere, I'm horrible at research, so I could have missinterperated something. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2003 : 07:22:02
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I'd do the research anyway, or just simply ask Alaundo...as I'm pretty sure a similar 'good-intentions' episode occured on another FR fan-forum not to long ago, with rather unpleasant results  .
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2003 : 07:31:33
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| Mm. I suppose it's best to play it safe. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2003 : 07:40:48
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It never hurts . Unless of course you and your party are held within a deep pit trap, surrounded by a number of the heartless dead who...now that's a discussion for another part of the forum...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Edited by - The Sage on 31 Dec 2003 07:41:30 |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2003 : 08:15:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Actually, since this item is out of print, I feel safe in offering Shaman as a PDF of a mere 1.13 MB. Should your email account be able to handle file of that size, let me know, and it shall be yours.
Well met
Bookwyrm!!!  This is not the place to discuss such activities, you know better than that! |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2003 : 08:19:56
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Hmph. I'm a dragon. Can I help it if I like to share my hoard? (At least when it doesn't deminish it. )
(And shutting up now, yessir.) |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2003 : 08:23:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Hmph. I'm a dragon. Can I help it if I like to share my hoard? (At least when it doesn't deminish it. )
(And shutting up now, yessir.)
Well met
::chuckle:: A dragon....sharing its hoard?! hoho, cant say ive ever read of that in any tomes of lore before
That said, theres a first time for everything |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2003 : 08:34:42
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You'l just think it very loudly, right?  |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2003 : 08:47:17
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Yes indeed...just so long as it doesn't get me into too much trouble 
Anyway back to the topic at hand, Aman, if you wish for me to sumamrise any of the information that I have mentioned, just let me know. I'm sure the Bookwyrm would also be willing to provide some useful information from the Shaman tome, if he's willing, or I'll provide some details from that as well.
I was also just reading through a 3e DL resource which has some interesting details on spirits, post- War of Souls. Only in this interpretation, they are roaming the Material Plane, having not the ability to pass on to their places in the afterlife.
Anyway, just let us know...
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
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Edited by - The Sage on 31 Dec 2003 08:49:50 |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2004 : 08:19:01
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I'm quite willing. Here's the Table of Contents, which might help in forming questions.
Introduction
Using the Book
Shamans and the Spirits
The Invisible Landscape
What the Spirits Know
Setting Up Shrine
1. Shaman Character Classes
---General Information
---Format of the Class Description
---The Tribal Shaman
---The Solitary Shaman
---The Spiritualist
2. Proficiencies
---Shaman Nonweapon Proficiencies
---Modified Proficiencies
---New Proficiencies
3. Equipment
---Shaman Equipment Lists
4. Shamanic Magic
---Spells and Starting Characters
---Tribal Shaman's Spell List
---Solitary Shaman's Spell List
---Spiritualist's Spell List
5. The World of the Spirits
---The Truth About the Spirits
---The Invisble Landscape Charted
---Types of Spirits
---The Spirits and the Material World
---Contacting the Spirits
---A Spiritual Beastiary
---Combating the Spirits
---Bringing It Into Play
---"Where Did That Come From?"
---Notes on Sacrifices to Spirits
---Notes on the Character Classes
6. Spiritual Sites
---The Burning Stone
---The Sacred Herd
---The Mountain of Ancestors
---The Hunting Shrine
---The Funeral Ground
7. New Magical Items
---Shamanic Magical Items
---Nonshamanic Magic Items
---Spiritual Weapon
8. Adventures
---Adventures for Tribal Shamans
---Adventures for Solitary Shamans
---Adventures for Spiritualists
---Adventures for All Character Classes
9. Monstrous Compendium Section
---Ancestors
---Bloodspirit
---Bogeymen, Greater & Lesser
---Fenette
---Fetish Spirits
---Ghost Packs
---Great Spirits
---Guardian Spirits
---Hero Spirits
---Nemesis Spirits
---Rogue Hero
---Sith
---Spirits, Minor
---Stringloi
---Totem Spirit
Index to Tables
Table 1: Shaman Level Progression
Table 2: Shaman Spell Progression
Table 3: Shaman Proficiency Slots
Table 4: Compiled Proficiencies
Table 5: Suggested Begging Modifies
Table 6: Failed Trance Results
Table 7: Random Spirit Contact Chart
Table 8: Demanded Value of Sacrifice
Table 9: Disrupted Animal Contact Results
Table 10: Social Disadvantages/Minor Curse
Table 11: Effects of Violating Funeral Grounds
Note: the sith has nothing to do with the more famous definition of that name. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2004 : 15:06:50
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Indeed...although, the term does have a lot to do with a similar type creature in the Ravenloft setting, namely the Baobhan Sith, or Black Spirit.
In fact, the Baobhan Sith pronounced baa'-van shee are derived from the much older legend of the White Women of the Scottish highlands. These women are ghost-like vampires who assume the shape of beautiful women and invite men to dance with them, and drink their blood.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2004 : 20:17:34
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Indeed...although, the term does have a lot to do with a similar type creature in the Ravenloft setting, namely the Baobhan Sith, or Black Spirit.
In fact, the Baobhan Sith pronounced baa'-van shee are derived from the much older legend of the White Women of the Scottish highlands. These women are ghost-like vampires who assume the shape of beautiful women and invite men to dance with them, and drink their blood.
Wow, now thats interesting, thanks Sage  Master of Realmslore AND Folklore no less |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2004 : 01:30:51
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Thanks Rad .
I originally came across this piece while doing some research on the myriad legends of the Baobhan Sith (both in D&D and real-life folklore), for an article to be included in a RL netzine at the beginning of last year.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2004 : 08:42:21
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Dang it! I knew it sounded familiar. I can't believe I missed that.  |
Edited by - Alaundo on 05 Jan 2004 09:31:06 |
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Aman the Rejected
Acolyte
USA
14 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2004 : 19:11:56
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I apologize for my absence, Selune requires certain holy days to be observed and I was elsewhere. With your help, I did find the tome of Shamans you spoke of (and no, not from direct 'teleportation' from Bookwyrm ) and found it to be enlightening. Use of the term though brought other books to my attention, namely a Green Ronin book called Master Class: Shaman which had some ideas as well.
I feel that I am now well prepared to bring it into the world, but I fear that my co-DM is taking them nowhere near where the story would make sense. My group may very well never leave Undermountain :(
So~, does anyone have any ideas for leading a party out of Undermountain that don't have the Deux Ex Machina feel? I want to make the players feel like they worked their way out (we're only 200 ft below Waterdeep on the first level, but from what I get from my co-DM we're 8 sessions away from getting out @_@). |
-"The night went by peacefully and your watch was unsuccessful."
-"What do you mean? Am I blind now?" |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2004 : 20:34:47
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A few days ago, I came across a reference to a Shaman class for a homebrew campaign world (Nahast). It's the setting for a webcomic of the same name, and the way that a young shaman character seemed to cast a cure spell on a girl was like a spontaineous casting. (Or, again, so it seemed.)
The author has yet to post stats on the class, though. If you'd like, I can attempt to contact him . . . . |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Aman the Rejected
Acolyte
USA
14 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2004 : 21:28:22
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Sage: just Aman is okay with me ...
Bookwyrm: please feel free to delve.
It does look like my co-DM is a mindreader though. He got me the perfect hook as we transitioned ...
Anyone been in Undermountain and found a talking skull? :D
By the way, if anyone's interested, I am transitioning the Rockseer elves from the Night Below adventure set to d20 for placement in the Faerunian world. (Think about xenophobic elves who haven't seen the light of the sun since the Time of Troubles wanting to find out about the world!) If interested, I'll be needing help with the level adjustment ... |
-"The night went by peacefully and your watch was unsuccessful."
-"What do you mean? Am I blind now?" |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Spirits
