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EltonJ
Learned Scribe
USA
101 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Apr 2012 : 04:20:29
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I have a prospective player who is a constant source of whining. I told him that the other players will kill his character first chance they get and still he wants in on my game.
I'm going have to tell him, "No, you can't."
Anyone else have immature players who whine at the DM and demand special attention?
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2012 : 04:36:05
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No matter where I go...
I have lived in many states, and all places I game have this sort of person...but do you mind if I put a twist on it for you?
Let them play...but insist that they play a character with THEIR OWN personality since that is the personality that comes through in almost every single character they play!
There is just something to that halfling that whines about everything...<cough>Regis<cough>...that sometimes is interesting.
Or even a weakling. I've had a player literally play such a horrible character that they could hardly heft a weapon in their own defense; but as miracles go, they often pulled one out of their hat.
Don't give up on players...you may enjoy (SOMEHOW!) the result.  |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4687 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2012 : 04:39:35
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Well details are sparse, what is player concerned about?
The fact you believe the other players will have their PCs kill new player PC as soon as possible is indeed a concern.
You of course have the right to refuse a new player or remove a current player if they would be disrupted play.
One thing that occurs to me is maybe your current players might be immature that they would likely attack the PC of a new player.
Oh yes I have had players that went with kill first ask questions later, one way of immature play. Such games did not last long. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Nilus Reynard
Learned Scribe
Canada
137 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2012 : 07:11:17
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When I still played actively (2nd E.), I had a special set of premade characters that I would make whiner/complainers play.
I would create a Crusader of a good aligned deity & give them that to play. I did this so that, as the DM, I was the voice of their deity. It really helped to keep them in check throughout the game, if they began to wander away from their role or began to bicker with the other players they would have a dream/vision where their diety told them what they were doing wrong & what the consequences would be if they didn't shape up. It worked 80% of the time.
Then there were the people who are just confrontational or simply like to argue/complain. I would simply kill their character off & not invite them back the next time we played. |
Nilus Reynard
Doom Master of Beshaba, Hand of Despair.
P24 Hm CN
(2nd Edition AD&D) |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2012 : 13:20:43
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I have only players who enjoy playing d&d and consider themselves lucky for playing it. Sometimes, one of them will whine a bit, only to be silenced not by me, but by other players. These events last for about 5 seconds. We use the DM-golden-rule; anything I say overrule any information from sourcebooks or splatbooks. I respect this rule on the rare occasions that I am not DMing.
When a character whines, and it makes sense in this situation, then I consider it RP, something I heavily encourage. As long as it doesn't concern mechanics or lore, whining is part of the experience.
So no, I do not have immature or whinny players, and thank god for that. |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2012 : 13:52:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Nilus Reynard
When I still played actively (2nd E.), I had a special set of premade characters that I would make whiner/complainers play.
Yuck. I don't think i would have played with a group where the DM "made" me play a certain character. Where is the freedom and fun in that?
We never had any whiners in our groups because we would only play with people whom we got along with in real life...which most (but not always) of the time is a good indicator on how they will be with a gaming group. |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
Try Audible and Get 2 Free Audio Books! https://amzn.to/2IgBede |
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EltonJ
Learned Scribe
USA
101 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2012 : 06:09:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Well details are sparse, what is player concerned about?
The fact you believe the other players will have their PCs kill new player PC as soon as possible is indeed a concern.
You of course have the right to refuse a new player or remove a current player if they would be disrupted play.
One thing that occurs to me is maybe your current players might be immature that they would likely attack the PC of a new player.
Oh yes I have had players that went with kill first ask questions later, one way of immature play. Such games did not last long.
Two of the players have played with him before. When he suggested I start a game according to the players' tastes, nothing ever got done because he and another player argued over the details. I couldn't take it anymore and I announced that we were playing in Chessenta in the Forgotten Realms.
That's when he whined. He whined about the Forgotten Realms. He says he grew up with the 1st edition, and he hated what Wizards of the Coast did with it during the 3.x era -- especially allowing player characters from everything.
He whined, and he whined, I stood my ground. "We are playing in Chessenta, and the forgotten realms, and the 3.x era and there is nothing you can do about it!"
I then quit GMing for two weeks because I couldn't handle the whining. I was about to block him from my Skype contacts because he was a 20 year old man acting like a 6 year-old. One of my players felt like he was usurping the DM's place, and basically lost all respect for him (she really likes me, by the way.)
I took the time out to brainstorm for my new campaign. Since Chessenta took center stage, I found a copy of FR-10 Old Empires and read up on the subject. Then I started to expand on what I found there to create a Sword and Sorcery game.
I wanted a Conan themed game in Forgotten Realms, since TSR, inc. said that Conan would enjoy it there. I thought about adapting the Conan short stories as adventures in my game so to have the right flavor. I wanted to read the Gor books, since I'm basing Chessentan slave society on John Norman's Gor.
I wanted a campaign where the Cimbrians spread out and conquer many lands, spreading into the Vilhon Reach and the Shaar. And mounting an overseas expedition to "punish" Sembia (my way of wiping the slate clean with Sembia and redesigning the nation  . Aren't I mean?  )
Weeeellll came back, and demanded a gold weapon because he was making a cleric of Sobek. I said no. I felt that Gold was impossible to temper without alloying it, so that the Mulhorandi elctroplate their weapons (since their technology was nigh close to the dwarves but still not the steampunk quality of the Gnomes of Lantan). I wanted Mulhorand to be like the Old Kingdom of Egypt, instead of the New, since the Ancient Egyptians of the Old Kingdom still had Age of Cancer (Late Atlantean) technology then (but was slowly losing knowledge of how to make it) or so the engineers say.
"You don't want me to have a gold weapon! A masterwork weapon takes care of all of this!"
I want you to think, that's all. I want you to think. Mulhorand doesn't have the technology to temper gold. He still wasn't being reasonable, so I assume my authority.
"I am the GM," I said loudly. "If I say that the Mulhorandi do not have pure gold weapons, then they don't have pure gold weapons."
It didn't stop there. I wanted boundaries that can be explained, his incessant wanting a golden weapon made me think he wanted special treatment. I continued to say, "no." Finally, I asked here for your opinions because he wasn't going to back down and neither was I. And yes, I got all kinds of opinions on golden weapons. A lot of them reasonable! And one or two a bit irrational (as in, ambiguous and not explained well). |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4687 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2012 : 10:38:32
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Ask and you will receive.
The player clearly is a problem player, wants 1st rules except when 3rd rules offer advantage.
There clearly can be advantage of players telling the DM type of game they want to play, however final choice is left to the DM. Disruptive players makes the game go slowly if at all.
I do hope my comments on gold weapons were more useful then irrational.
Having players is important to having a game, however players are invited to the game the DM offers. Any that do not like the proposed game should not be allowed to play in it. No player should demand rights greater then what the game setting provides the other players. As other players not liking this player at issue, that by itself is a good indicator that the whining player should be excluded from current game.
At least these are my current thoughts. You are there, it is the game you moderate so in the end you need to do what you believe best for the most. Tell the player this is game we are playing, your character can not afford a gold blade and if not acceptable until you stat a new game he is not welcomed to your gaming table. Having no players is bad, having a bad player however worst in running a game.
Good Luck |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Nilus Reynard
Learned Scribe
Canada
137 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2012 : 12:16:21
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quote:
Yuck. I don't think i would have played with a group where the DM "made" me play a certain character. Where is the freedom and fun in that?
Where is the freedom and fun for the other players when their gaming experience is being ruined by someone who complains about everything during entire game. (ie. "I wanted that item!!" That's not fair! How come I took so much damage in the fight and he didn't!!" etc, etc etc.)
And its not as if I forced them to play. They could have simply said no. They chose to play the premade character, because if they didn't they would be taking a break from the gaming group.
When you look at freedom and fun you need to think about the other 4-6 people who are there as well, not just yourself. |
Nilus Reynard
Doom Master of Beshaba, Hand of Despair.
P24 Hm CN
(2nd Edition AD&D) |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2012 : 14:16:46
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quote:
When you look at freedom and fun you need to think about the other 4-6 people who are there as well, not just yourself.
This is why all prospective members of a gaming group should be subject to a full background investigation before joining.  |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
Try Audible and Get 2 Free Audio Books! https://amzn.to/2IgBede |
Edited by - Artemas Entreri on 18 Apr 2012 17:54:27 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3740 Posts |
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EltonJ
Learned Scribe
USA
101 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2012 : 18:16:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-Dude needs to figure out he's not in charge.
True. He found out real quick. I eventually did kick him out for causing a general disruption of my game (i.e. PvP). |
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JohnnyGrognard
Acolyte
USA
19 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2012 : 23:48:24
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Thankfully, this hasn't been an issue in our group in sometime. Throughout the years we've had to deal with players who put up a stink about every little thing.
Rules Lawyers were easy enough to shut down, but the entitled players who whined about every little detail sometimes brought the game to a halt. It was disruptive to the table and could make for a sour evening.
However, we just kind of phased those players out. The game is about being a hero, questing, and having a damn fun time....especially now that I'm older...I want to be drama free during my evening's entertainment. |
Door, Room, Monster, Treasure! |
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xedrick
Seeker
82 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2012 : 21:03:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Kilvan
I have only players who enjoy playing d&d and consider themselves lucky for playing it. Sometimes, one of them will whine a bit, only to be silenced not by me, but by other players. These events last for about 5 seconds. We use the DM-golden-rule; anything I say overrule any information from sourcebooks or splatbooks. I respect this rule on the rare occasions that I am not DMing.
When a character whines, and it makes sense in this situation, then I consider it RP, something I heavily encourage. As long as it doesn't concern mechanics or lore, whining is part of the experience.
So no, I do not have immature or whinny players, and thank god for that.
My game is the same way, but I have played in many groups that were not so. Every week I make sure to thank my players for being good at their respective jobs.
I may have allowed a 'golden' weapon... Not of pure gold, per se, but perhaps gleaming brass or simply colored steel to reflect the influence of the diety. I've had players ask for somewhat unreasonable things like this, but I gently remind them that every character must have a goal, and that if I gave them all of the things that they wanted right NOW, there would be no reason to play next week. That sort of thing usually settles arguments around my table. I'm not saying NO, just not NOW.
As far as the whole masterwork takes care of all this....that's just not true. A pure golden weapon would not only require a master MASTER craftsman to even beat down into a blade to begin with, but would also be extremely fragile. Not to mention the difference in materials cost, which given steel vs gold should be significant. I know you've already come to a decision on this, but information on golden weapons, I think, can be found in the arms and equipment guide, 3E.
*****HOWEVER, he does seem like a problem player who I would have quickly booted from my table. At the point where he began to whine about my choice of setting for my story, he would have been asked to refrain from touching any more of my dice or books. Not necessarily immediately, but again, a gentle reminder that I am telling the story and that I know where my story will best fit would have been my first response.
As far as PvP, I've had this break out once or twice in multiple groups. Usually, the DM intervenes, but I usually let it happen and wait for another player to break it up. This works at my table, since my group is as described above. Lucky me.
EDIT: LOLOL I think, if he kept being a **** about the golden weapon for his diety, I may have required him to buy and use an 'Oil of Golden Weapon' to color his blade any time he was in public, until he could afford a proper weapon. I mean, it's god's will and all. |
Edited by - xedrick on 13 May 2012 21:19:00 |
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LordXenophon
Learned Scribe
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2012 : 20:20:59
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That is not entirely accurate. I could make a solid gold sword myself. It would be easy. It would also bend the first time you tried to swing it and it would never hold an edge, but it would look pretty. I would consider it a work of art, but not a weapon.
I say let him find someone willing to melt down a big pile of gold pieces to make it, then let him bend it over the head of a laughing enemy.
Then tell him, AFTER he's wasted all that money, that what all the other guys are using is a steel sword decorated with gold and that you have to get it re-plated after every battle. |
Disintegration is in the eye of the Beholder. |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2012 : 08:47:22
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This has happened twice. The first time, in AD&D during my high school years, I hit my players with a band of orcs who just happened to have a pair of arcane spellcasters. The way it was possible? They stumbled upon a slain wizard's tower (said wizard having been killed by unintelligent monsters with no interest in the trappings of mortals) and while their fellows plundered the tower for other things, managed to puzzle out how to cast first and second-level spells from the spellbook before running into the party.
Not only did one of the players become a rules lawyer ("Orcs can't cast arcane spells!"), he did so in an irritating whine, and this continued for almost an hour before my patience ran out. I surprised everyone by ripping up my campaign notes, walking out, and driving home. I sent letters to all players (this was before mass e-mails, mind you) saying that I, as DM, was not about to have my decisions gainsayed by someone else, thanked them for their participation, and informed them the campaign was over.
When I reformed to run a new campaign, I very pointedly did not invite him - and everyone else not only understood, but supported that decision.
The second time was in a game I was running called Dark Conspiracy. One of my players (a very personable chap) had brought along a friend, the character this friend created being a U.S. Army master sergeant. A master sergeant who then proceeded to mouth off and belittle another character, a U.S. Army captain who happened to be an Army nurse, and a woman.
It was those two things that drove this in-game disrespect, and after another character (also in the Army) reported this behavior up the chain of command, the master sergeant became...just a sergeant. Keep in mind, this is after repeatedwarnings from me as the game master, and by other characters saying in-game "Geez, sarge, what are you doing?!"
Towards the end of the evening, after he had sat there sulking about his character's demotion, I decided I had had it. I swarmed the jeep that 'sarge' was riding in with zergling-like creatures and turned the character into cold cuts along with two NPCs. I called a halt for the night, and informed him that he was welcome to make another character, but that he would not be allowed to be in the military. I was relieved when he did not return the next time, and that I could keep going forward with the campaign.
The good fellow who had invited him was almost mortally embarrassed, and apologized repeatedly, but I eventually got him to understand that it was not his fault - how could he have known that his friend would turn into a weeping willow?
Finally, from my son's gaming table (and I laughed as he was telling me this story): One player was continually doing things to aggravate all the other players...until one of them reached the end of her rope and said "I slit his throat!"
DM: "Roll."
Player (incredulous): "I can do that?"
DM: "Yes. Roll."
*a natural 20 is rolled - I believe this part, because my son much prefers painful truths*
DM (to annoying player): "Make a Perception save"
*Saving throw fails*
DM (turning back to the throat-slitter): "You succeed. Your target is dead."
The annoying player, according to the story, sat in sulking silence the rest of the evening. I have no idea if he was ever invited back, but he is the son of a fellow I gamed with in high school, and I will say only that he sounds like he is very much his father's son.
- OMH |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2012 : 22:18:02
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Here's a solution. Suggest the whiny player play a bard, who has very good looks and is charming, witty, urbane and hung like a prize stallion. All the women really fancy him, he can't fight them off even with that thing that's sized like an urgrosh in his pants. If he still whines - shoot him.
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Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Abenabin Gimblescrew
Seeker
USA
75 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2012 : 11:51:53
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Or just tell him/her to play a wizard that broods and enslaves the entire group and world with his/her magic to get their way. Either way works.  Then kill him/her with a...dagger to the back! *sings it like the song* |
Invention is the key to staying ahead of the competition. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2012 : 12:13:39
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| FOLDING STEEL CHAIR... |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1270 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2012 : 17:17:16
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I know a Kender with a pair of pistols you can gate in to deal with him. He's also got a grafted in beholder's central eye and a deep-bred dislike for arcane casters. I think he'll take care of said PC. :P
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- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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Thrasymachus
Learned Scribe
195 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2012 : 11:09:57
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| Tell him the game has moved to play by email, and then blacklist his email into your spam folder. |
Former Forgotten Realms brand manager Jim Butler: "Everything that bears the Forgotten Realms logo is considered canon". |
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Tarlyn
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2012 : 23:37:03
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If your group and this player cannot get along, then your only real option is to ask himher not to play. No one has a good time, if everyone is consumed with feuding rather than playing. Also, why invite someone to the table and force them to play a character you created? It is just setting up a situation that will likely lead to a fight.
Just tell the player straight the situation and do the same to the group. If they can't resolve their personal conflicts, one side needs to go. |
Tarlyn Embersun |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2012 : 19:16:30
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Why even let such a person know you are starting a campaign?
I was in a very similar situation with a player from my brother-in-law's group, and they just decided to 'play behind his back'. He was their friend outside of D&D, but they couldn't stand playing with him. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Whiny players
