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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36910 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Apr 2012 : 16:53:05
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| Perhaps we could edit that real-world reference out, because it's not overly flattering for people of that nation... |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2012 : 01:54:04
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
But my own take is backed up by lore as well:-
Ah, but read more there: Great wealth entered the groundling city, but spelljamming proved an even greater expense.
In 2895 NY, the archwizards decided that the risk was far too great to justify the tremendous expense of lost ships and murdered crews. That is, Arcane then-complete monopoly on helms didn't bother Netherese much as long as they hoped to get anything of value to them in return for their expenses.
We don't know exactly what that expense includes completely, though. Sure, ships and personnel. But it could also just as equally entail the financial compensation the Netherese needed to payout in order to satisfy the purchase of helms from the Arcane in the first place. Which, again, makes them a dominant factor in the Netherese enterprise of spelljamming. |
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2012 : 02:37:25
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Didn't it occur to them to use proxies instead of personally doing 'business' in a space where they're hardly welcome? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36910 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2012 : 04:22:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Didn't it occur to them to use proxies instead of personally doing 'business' in a space where they're hardly welcome?
And rely on "lesser" beings? That's not something that would reply to the Netherese... |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2012 : 04:25:13
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'Lesser' beings have their uses. At least, Shade knows that pretty well. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2012 : 06:22:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Didn't it occur to them to use proxies instead of personally doing 'business' in a space where they're hardly welcome?
Unlikely. That's a contradiction of the arrogant presumption of the Netherese to establish their power and dominance in any environment they seek to master. |
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2012 : 07:20:07
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Well, they could reveal that the proxies are actually working for them after said proxies successfully establish a relatively solid presence. They may be an arrogant lot, but some of them are more sly than haughty. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2012 : 07:51:46
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| The only way I could see the Netherese using proxies in a situation like this, would be due to the fact that they view such interactions with "outsiders/aliens" as either beneath their sensibilities, or because of their xenophobic nature. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2012 : 07:57:29
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That could be the case. Though Oberon would not agree to it. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3746 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2012 : 21:27:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Didn't it occur to them to use proxies instead of personally doing 'business' in a space where they're hardly welcome?
And rely on "lesser" beings? That's not something that would reply to the Netherese...
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Unlikely. That's a contradiction of the arrogant presumption of the Netherese to establish their power and dominance in any environment they seek to master.
-The Netherese employed Gnome slaves. They're certainly lesser beings. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 26 Apr 2012 21:28:33 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2012 : 01:35:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Didn't it occur to them to use proxies instead of personally doing 'business' in a space where they're hardly welcome?
And rely on "lesser" beings? That's not something that would reply to the Netherese...
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Unlikely. That's a contradiction of the arrogant presumption of the Netherese to establish their power and dominance in any environment they seek to master.
-The Netherese employed Gnome slaves. They're certainly lesser beings.
Yes, they employed gnome slave. On Toril. Where the arrogance of the Netherse was already firmly established. I wouldn't imagine the same could be said for Netherese entering a new environment like Realmspace. I doubt they would trust such important expansionist matters to "lesser beings." |
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 27 Apr 2012 01:40:35 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3746 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2012 : 02:27:28
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Yes, they employed gnome slave. On Toril. Where the arrogance of the Netherse was already firmly established. I wouldn't imagine the same could be said for Netherese entering a new environment like Realmspace. I doubt they would trust such important expansionist matters to "lesser beings."
-If a Gnome is trustworthy enough to <insert various duties that Gnomes took the burden of- by canon, we don't have too many examples of specific duties, outside the fact that they were slaves- it is not a leap of logic to envision them being used for trade matters where Netherese Humans themselves are not specifically welcome, face-to-face. While neither here nor there, the Mongols (as plenty of other cultures, I am sure) practiced this extensively as they carved Asia into their domain(s). Looking at Q'arland (sp?)'s relationship with his Gnome slave- the Drow were another culture who looked down upon other races- the slave had a lot of leeway and relative autonomy. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 27 Apr 2012 02:28:27 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2012 : 03:21:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Yes, they employed gnome slave. On Toril. Where the arrogance of the Netherse was already firmly established. I wouldn't imagine the same could be said for Netherese entering a new environment like Realmspace. I doubt they would trust such important expansionist matters to "lesser beings."
-If a Gnome is trustworthy enough to <insert various duties that Gnomes took the burden of- by canon, we don't have too many examples of specific duties, outside the fact that they were slaves- it is not a leap of logic to envision them being used for trade matters where Netherese Humans themselves are not specifically welcome, face-to-face.
True.
But I can't see this being indicative of the entire Netherese approach to working in Realmspace, nor making deals with the Arcane. One or two arcanists, perhaps, who have trusted and noteworthy relationships with their gnomish slaves.
Accepting that all Netherese arcanists operating in Realmspace would entrust important decisions to what they consider "underlings" and/or "lesser beings," isn't so applicable. |
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2012 : 04:52:22
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They can always empower their slaves, to the point where they would at the very least inspire a modicum of respect. After the slaves have established a (relatively) solid presence in Realmspace, the archwizards can then show themselves and do as they wish. And to ensure that their slaves wouldn't betray them, wouldn't indulge in transactions they don't approve, they can mind-bind them too, just like how Larloch controls his 60-odd liches, and Szass Tam, his necromancers. There are many Netherese archwizards who could do it without any problems. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2012 : 07:01:53
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| Mind-binding is a useful option and certainly efficient if you are skilled at doing so...I wonder, when the Spellplague hit, did the chains of wizardry on Larloch's liches break or warp in any way??? |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2012 : 07:13:20
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It's possible he lost control of some. Those he lost could have fled elsewhere, or a few remained, having nowhere in particular to go. Some might have been suspended in time, just like Raidon Kane, and those Larloch was able to salvage upon his 'recovery' |
Every beginning has an end. |
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althen artren
Senior Scribe
USA
780 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2012 : 15:23:32
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I have the rough outline of a Oberon enclave that did go into space, it had
"cloaking" capabilites, fought a multi-decade war with the Spider race, flew
to countless spheres over a few thousand years and resettled in a high mountain
valley in Osse just before the Godsfall. With enough high level spellcasters
and creating imagination, (like weapon equip ornathopters), really only
the SPELLJAMMER had a chance to destroy it, and they stayed very far away from it. |
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Had Karsus not cast his Avatar spell, where would
