| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3807 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Mar 2012 : 19:59:37
|
Meh...
The events in the books make even less sense in my eyes now.
I just hope that we will get answers for them, preferably in this Menzo sourcebook. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 26 Mar 2012 20:00:21 |
 |
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11859 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2012 : 21:56:58
|
lets get back to the core discussion here.
So, you said there were a bunch of non-evil female nekid drow dancers, right? I think we should contemplate on this for a while... The first question that obviously comes to mind is, does the carpet match the drapes... but then, is it carpeting or hardwood? Do they wear their hair in two pony tails, a single pony tail, or just loose? Are they dancing each to their own, or is it a writhing mass of nekid female drow dancers? These are the critical things we need to know.  |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
Kentinal
Great Reader
4690 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2012 : 22:08:04
|
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
lets get back to the core discussion here.
So, you said there were a bunch of non-evil female nekid drow dancers, right? I think we should contemplate on this for a while... The first question that obviously comes to mind is, does the carpet match the drapes... but then, is it carpeting or hardwood? Do they wear their hair in two pony tails, a single pony tail, or just loose? Are they dancing each to their own, or is it a writhing mass of nekid female drow dancers? These are the critical things we need to know.
You clearly do not know the tree huggers.
No the carpet does not match the drapes, no drapes.
The carpet is what ever is underfoot, though soil is preferred, grassed.
Hair is always free flowing, do not bind anyone or thing unless needed. No way would one or more pony tail be considered proper for a dance.
They dance in a glade normally, often in a circle and yes naked. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
|
|
|
Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 00:39:53
|
A few points:
1) SFD, I hope you're not talking about me, because I didn't work on Menzoberranzan. I have, however, seen the book, and I do think that it will answer some questions posed here.
2) Death is never permanent for gods in the Realms. (Captain Obvious strikes again!)
3) For folks upset by that quoted passage: Um, if I read that correctly, isn't it LOLTH showing an image of dead Vhaeraun? Oh whew, glad that's sorted. Because CE goddesses never lie or deceive or manipulate. (No one's heard of the concept of "unreliable narrator"?)
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
|
|
|
Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3807 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 01:06:32
|
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
3) For folks upset by that quoted passage: Um, if I read that correctly, isn't it LOLTH showing an image of dead Vhaeraun? Oh whew, glad that's sorted. Because CE goddesses never lie or deceive or manipulate. (No one's heard of the concept of "unreliable narrator"?)
It's not sorted. What's the point of trying to deceive Eilistraee in this context? I mean, it was she that (supposedly) killed Vhaeraun, so she would've seen the corpse too. Showing her an illusion would be stupid.
quote:
SFD, I hope you're not talking about me, because I didn't work on Menzoberranzan. I have, however, seen the book, and I do think that it will answer some questions posed here.
No. This is what got my hopes high
http://eilistraee.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=40502#p40502 |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 27 Mar 2012 01:10:37 |
|
|
|
Kentinal
Great Reader
4690 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 01:06:40
|
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
A few points:
3) For folks upset by that quoted passage: Um, if I read that correctly, isn't it LOLTH showing an image of dead Vhaeraun? Oh whew, glad that's sorted. Because CE goddesses never lie or deceive or manipulate. (No one's heard of the concept of "unreliable narrator"?)
Cheers
Are you sure that a CE goddesses never practices deception? *G* |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
|
|
|
sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 01:11:29
|
I'm sorry... I quite paying attention to this..... did I miss something.....
because I did not say anything about mensoberreanzan to my memmory... let me go look again
|
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
|
|
|
Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3807 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 01:13:07
|
I guess the fact that we use the same avatar created confusion |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
|
|
|
Kentinal
Great Reader
4690 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 01:13:21
|
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
3) For folks upset by that quoted passage: Um, if I read that correctly, isn't it LOLTH showing an image of dead Vhaeraun? Oh whew, glad that's sorted. Because CE goddesses never lie or deceive or manipulate. (No one's heard of the concept of "unreliable narrator"?)
It's not sorted. What's the point of trying to deceive Eilistraee in this context? I mean, it was she that (supposedly) killed Vhaeraun, so she would've seen the corpse too. Showing her an illusion would be utterly stupid.
Err, a result of a battle, final death indeed could be illusion. One can fight with a sibling and cause damage without killing. Lloth showing that she killed her brother as a after effect clearly could be a tactic to make it easier to defeat daughter. Mind games often can become part of many battles.
|
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
|
|
|
sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 01:13:39
|
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
I'm sorry... I quite paying attention to this..... did I miss something.....
because I did not say anything about mensoberreanzan to my memmory... let me go look again
nope.... unless there is someone else that goes by SFD in any form or fashion |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
|
|
|
Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3807 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 01:15:30
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
3) For folks upset by that quoted passage: Um, if I read that correctly, isn't it LOLTH showing an image of dead Vhaeraun? Oh whew, glad that's sorted. Because CE goddesses never lie or deceive or manipulate. (No one's heard of the concept of "unreliable narrator"?)
It's not sorted. What's the point of trying to deceive Eilistraee in this context? I mean, it was she that (supposedly) killed Vhaeraun, so she would've seen the corpse too. Showing her an illusion would be utterly stupid.
Err, a result of a battle, final death indeed could be illusion. One can fight with a sibling and cause damage without killing. Lloth showing that she killed her brother as a after effect clearly could be a tactic to make it easier to defeat daughter. Mind games often can become part of many battles.
Eilistraee would know if she sliced her brother into pieces, so showing that as a result of their fighting to deceive her makes no sense.
It's not that you cut someone as if you were a blender by mistake. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 27 Mar 2012 01:16:25 |
|
|
|
Kentinal
Great Reader
4690 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 01:21:52
|
Well there is the theory of battle rage, in which one does not know how bad they hurt each other. The key though is Eilistraee is shown an image of result of battle. It thus is implied she did not know she killed, and with 5th might not have done so.
Edit: 5th = that (I think, not sure how a 5 got in the. bad keyboad perhaps.) |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
Edited by - Kentinal on 27 Mar 2012 01:38:02 |
|
|
|
sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 01:22:40
|
Llolth has one thing in her advantage.
she has every thing to gain by telling the truth and everything to gain by telling a lie.
and the weaver has been a liar since day one and her web of fate will come apart the day she tells the truth.
|
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
|
|
|
Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3807 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 01:28:48
|
quote:
Well there is the theory of battle rage, in which one does not know how bad they hurt each other. The key though is Eilistraee is shown an image of result of battle. It thus is implied she did not know she killed, and with 5th might not have done so.
If after the battle pieces of her brother's corpse lied before Eilistraee, then she'd know she killed him. Also if you make someone to piece, he/she'll die way before you complete your 'work' so there is no way she could've done that and not realized it, even in battle-rage (and afaik Eilistraee despises rage, the only kind she would fall to is the one caused by drow being forced to commit evil). We're not talking about not easily noticeable wounds, this is something completely different.
The only reason I'd find for Lolth showing Eilistraee her doing would be making her daughter to feel guilty.
I sincerely hope that it turns out to be some plan on their side, because Eilistraee behaving this way (and Vhaeraun seeking direct confrontation) is just wrong.
|
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 27 Mar 2012 01:40:19 |
|
|
|
Aulduron
Learned Scribe
USA
343 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 02:13:22
|
Maybe it was Lolth being deceived by her chaotic children. Honestly, I thought someone would cite his groaning to imply he might still be alive.
However, I must cite Evermeet: Island of the Elves, page 69-70.
For a moment, the god (Correlon) stroked his daughters bright hair and regarded her still face with a mixture of sorrow and pride. Finally he looked to Vhaeraun. "Elistraee has chosen. Go now and take her with you. But know that the day you raise your hand against her will be the last day of your life. This I swear, by all the trees of Arvandor."
So he's either dead, he didn't raise his hand against her, or there are no more trees in Arvandor. I suppose the two children could have conspired to fool mommy, but there seems to be no clear motive for such a deception at this time. |
"Those with talent become wizards, Those without talent spend their lives praying for it"
-Procopio Septus |
Edited by - Aulduron on 27 Mar 2012 02:14:43 |
|
|
|
Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 02:19:05
|
Wow, one off-hand comment and I spark a small battle. 
Sorry about the confusion as regards the SFD comment. I literally only had thirty seconds.
Also, yes, Lolth is tricksy. What better way to erode Eilistraee's confidence than convince her she had indeed killed her brother? Also, a means to keep them from forming an alliance (which they did anyway, as the Masked Lady). Also just being cruel. All of these are things Lolth would do before breakfast.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
|
|
|
Kentinal
Great Reader
4690 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 02:28:36
|
quote:
Originally posted by Aulduron
Maybe it was Lolth being deceived by her chaotic children. Honestly, I thought someone would cite his groaning to imply he might still be alive.
However, I must cite Evermeet: Island of the Elves, page 69-70.
For a moment, the god (Correlon) stroked his daughters bright hair and regarded her still face with a mixture of sorrow and pride. Finally he looked to Vhaeraun. "Elistraee has chosen. Go now and take her with you. But know that the day you raise your hand against her will be the last day of your life. This I swear, by all the trees of Arvandor."
So he's either dead, he didn't raise his hand against her, or there are no more trees in Arvandor. I suppose the two children could have conspired to fool mommy, but there seems to be no clear motive for such a deception at this time.
There are many reasons to deceive Mother, Eilistraee a clear reason because once deceived into try to kill father. Vhaeraun clearly was also deceived by Mother into belief of greater power and alliance with Mother. That clearly worked out so well, that he became a foe of Mother and likely was a large threat.
The one thing though that is hard to resolve is if two things, hate of Mother and returning to the surface were good enough for the two siblings to join together intentionally. The Masked Lady indeed might have been both children. Correlon might have saved both of his children. *Shrugs* We will see in time. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
|
|
|
Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3807 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 02:32:55
|
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Wow, one off-hand comment and I spark a small battle.
Sorry about the confusion as regards the SFD comment. I literally only had thirty seconds.
Also, yes, Lolth is tricksy. What better way to erode Eilistraee's confidence than convince her she had indeed killed her brother? Also, a means to keep them from forming an alliance (which they did anyway, as the Masked Lady). Also just being cruel. All of these are things Lolth would do before breakfast.
Cheers
As I said, you cannot make someone think he/she killed while not willing to do so when he/she acted like a meat grinder in regards of his/her victim. It's obvious at this point that the kill was meant and not by accident.
I can see Lolth being cruel, trying to make Eilistraee feel guilty and eroding her confidence, but trying to deceive her in this situation would make no sense.
So either Eilistraee and Vhaeraun actually teamed up trying to deceive their mother or the sister actually killed her brother (and the way she supposedly did it left me shocked as much as the fact itself that she (again, supposedly) did it, because it is totally out of character for her).
I would by far prefer the former.
EDIT: quote:
Corellon might have saved both of his children.
I'd love to see something like this. Also because Corellon always struck me as a very uncaring god, especially when he provided his priests/wizards the magic to perform the Corellon's Descent, without even trying to convince them that dooming a whole race was a big mistake. This would make him look at least less absent. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 27 Mar 2012 02:39:50 |
|
|
|
Kentinal
Great Reader
4690 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 02:35:01
|
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Wow, one off-hand comment and I spark a small battle.
Sorry about the confusion as regards the SFD comment. I literally only had thirty seconds.
Also, yes, Lolth is tricksy. What better way to erode Eilistraee's confidence than convince her she had indeed killed her brother? Also, a means to keep them from forming an alliance (which they did anyway, as the Masked Lady). Also just being cruel. All of these are things Lolth would do before breakfast.
Cheers
Well I think most of us are now on the same page as to the possibilities. *G* |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
|
|
|
Imp
Learned Scribe
231 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 04:42:59
|
quote:
As I said, you cannot make someone think he/she killed while not willing to do so when he/she acted like a meat grinder in regards of his/her victim. It's obvious at this point that the kill was meant and not by accident.
I can see Lolth being cruel, trying to make Eilistraee feel guilty and eroding her confidence, but trying to deceive her in this situation would make no sense.
They are Gods. Slicing a God to pieces won't kill him. A God could possibly kill another God. Eilistraee didn't want to kill her brother. And she either didn't, but she doesn't know that (and Lolth is deceiving her) or she did (unintentionally, in a battle rage or something) and Lolth is simply tormenting her.
It's not that hard to understand. |
[url=http://expensiveautomobile.com/2009-bmw-3-series-uk-version/]2009 bmw 3 series uk version[/url] [url=http://expensiveautomobile.com/2009-bmw-3-series-touring-uk-version/]2009 bmw 3 series touring uk version[/url] |
|
|
|
Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3807 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 09:28:18
|
quote:
Originally posted by Imp
quote:
As I said, you cannot make someone think he/she killed while not willing to do so when he/she acted like a meat grinder in regards of his/her victim. It's obvious at this point that the kill was meant and not by accident.
I can see Lolth being cruel, trying to make Eilistraee feel guilty and eroding her confidence, but trying to deceive her in this situation would make no sense.
They are Gods. Slicing a God to pieces won't kill him. A God could possibly kill another God. Eilistraee didn't want to kill her brother. And she either didn't, but she doesn't know that (and Lolth is deceiving her) or she did (unintentionally, in a battle rage or something) and Lolth is simply tormenting her.
It's not that hard to understand.
I'm not having trouble understanding it.
Even though it alone might not be enough to kill a god, the act of slicing someone into pieces can't be unintentional. You must be blind to do it by mistake with swords.
So, quoting myself:
quote:
Either Eilistraee and Vhaeraun actually teamed up trying to deceive their mother or the sister actually killed her brother (and the way she supposedly did it left me shocked as much as the fact itself that she (again, supposedly) did it, because it is totally out of character for her).
My point is that the the 'unreliable narrator' perspective justification or Lolth's deception doesn't hold in this case.
Either they allied (and for some reason they tried to deceive their mother) or Eilistraee willingly killed Vhaeraun, and this act itself, especially combined with such a display of violence, is totally out of her character.
Meh, maybe it's just me. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 27 Mar 2012 10:25:22 |
|
|
|
Kentinal
Great Reader
4690 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 10:09:11
|
| As far as swords go, Eilistraee of 2nd Edition wielded two swords, she of 3rd Edition only wielded one bigger sword. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
|
|
|
Kentinal
Great Reader
4690 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 10:54:04
|
quote:
Eilistraee is a melancholy, moody drow female, a lover of beauty and
peace. The evil of most drow banks a burning anger within her, and when
her faithful are harmed, that anger is apt to spill out into wild
action.
or this, if not both
quote:
Eilistraee (eil-iss-tray-yee) is a melancholy, moody deity. She is greatly angered by the evil of most drow but glad that some have worked their way free of the Spider Queen's web. Eilistraee is a lover of beauty and peace but is not averse to striking back against those who would harm her followers.
There can be room for wild actions and she disliked Mother and Brother Evil. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
|
|
|
Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3807 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 10:59:52
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
quote:
Eilistraee is a melancholy, moody drow female, a lover of beauty and
peace. The evil of most drow banks a burning anger within her, and when
her faithful are harmed, that anger is apt to spill out into wild
action.
or this, if not both
quote:
Eilistraee (eil-iss-tray-yee) is a melancholy, moody deity. She is greatly angered by the evil of most drow but glad that some have worked their way free of the Spider Queen's web. Eilistraee is a lover of beauty and peace but is not averse to striking back against those who would harm her followers.
There can be room for wild actions and she disliked Mother and Brother Evil.
Sure, I'm aware of that (like I said the only rage she would fall to is caused by drow forced to commit evil, or oppressed by her mother's tyranny), but:
1st: I don't think she would've ever given up trying to 'redeem' her brother (like the quoted passage hinted). That goes against what she is and stands for. This is the reason because of I hope it all was a sort of agreement between brother and sister.
2nd: Wild actions and striking back are a thing (I would've understood a misplaced thrust that killed Vhaeraun while Eilistraee didn't want to, for example), cutting someone into pieces (or even fragments ( ), as the passage said) is a whole different matter. It's just mindless fury or taking pleasure in blood-letting, and this is the complete opposite of Eilistraee. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 27 Mar 2012 12:11:03 |
|
|
|
Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3745 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 21:16:48
|
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Either they allied (and for some reason they tried to deceive their mother) or Eilistraee willingly killed Vhaeraun, and this act itself, especially combined with such a display of violence, is totally out of her character.
Meh, maybe it's just me.
-Why would defending yourself against attack be out of character? |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
|
|
|
Kentinal
Great Reader
4690 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 21:27:34
|
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Either they allied (and for some reason they tried to deceive their mother) or Eilistraee willingly killed Vhaeraun, and this act itself, especially combined with such a display of violence, is totally out of her character.
Meh, maybe it's just me.
-Why would defending yourself against attack be out of character?
Defending is not the issue, the cutting into little pieces is the greater concern about being out of character for Eilistraee. Add into this of course Irennan's belief that Eilistraee would prefer to redeem her brother as opposed to killing him in the first place. They after all are family and both a common goal of returning to the surface. Other goals of course are not the same. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
|
|
|
Imp
Learned Scribe
231 Posts |
|
|
Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3807 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 23:42:38
|
It would've been waaay more fitting for both of them (at least in my eyes) if they decided to temporary team up and Vhaeraun's corpse was, for example, just fake, something planned because they, for some reason, wanted to deceive Lolth about this matter (and not the vice-verse which would make absolutely no sense).
quote:
-Why would defending yourself against attack be out of character?
The death of the attacker isn't necessary to self defense.
That said, I strongly believe Eilistraee would've never given up redeeming his brother because it is one of her characterizing traits to believe that there's always hope to change someone's mind, to show him/her that a different kind of life is possible. And if she does that with apparently hopelessly indoctrinated Lolth priestesses, why would this not apply to her own brother?
The way things appear to be, instead, Vhaeraun ''died'' even more pointlessly than his sister and in a stupid (and overly bloody) way. This just adds up to the feeling that the books were written only to remove them from the setting.
Just my thoughts ofc.
|
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 28 Mar 2012 00:06:26 |
|
|
|
Imp
Learned Scribe
231 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2012 : 00:04:36
|
quote:
It would've been waaay more fitting for both of them (at least in my eyes) if they decided to temporary team up and Vhaeraun's corpse was, for example, just fake, something planned because they, for some reason, wanted to deceive Lolth about this matter.
It would be out of character for Eilistraee to deceive.
quote:
The death of the attacker isn't necessary to self defense.
But can be an unfortunate and unintentional consequence.
quote:
That said, I strongly believe Eilistraee would've never given up redeeming his brother because it is one of her characterizing traits to believe that there's always hope to change someone's mind, to show him/her that a different kind of life is possible. And if she does that with apparently hopelessly indoctrinated Lolth priestesses, why would this not apply to her own brother?
Who said she gave up? It's kinda hard to redeem a dead guy and Eilistraee thought that her brother was dead (true or not), so she really didn't gave up, but just couldn't do it.
quote:
The way things appear to be, instead, Vhaeraun ''died'' even more pointlessly than his sister and in a stupid way. This just adds up to the feeling that the books were written only to remove them from the setting.
They didn't? O.o I thought it's kinda obvious that they did. |
[url=http://expensiveautomobile.com/2009-bmw-3-series-uk-version/]2009 bmw 3 series uk version[/url] [url=http://expensiveautomobile.com/2009-bmw-3-series-touring-uk-version/]2009 bmw 3 series touring uk version[/url] |
Edited by - Imp on 28 Mar 2012 00:07:52 |
|
|
|
Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3807 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2012 : 00:12:02
|
quote:
It would be out of character for Eilistraee to deceive.
Probably, but I'm not so sure about it(she's chaotic after all). Still, I meant it just as an example (as I specified) to offer an alternative to a meaningless death.
quote:
Who said she gave up?
Eilistraee said sacrifices are to be made (or something along those lines) even though, in this case, sacrifice could've been avoided.
quote:
But can be an unfortunate and unintentional consequence.
If you sliced someone into pieces, then you'd be willingly killing him/her. If you willingly killed him/her, you'd be giving up redeeming him/her. As simple as that.
quote:
They didn't? O.o I thought it's kinda obvious that they did.
They were events meant just to deprive the setting (even if only in canon) of something, making Eilistraee and Vhaeraun to ''die'' pointlessly and removing the only thing that made drow interesting in my eyes (they're just a 'for powah and evulz' race without any depth for me now).
Even if a novel is meant to take off some characters, it should do it by giving them justice.
These ones didn't (not judging how they were written, or how they can be enjoyable. I'm saying that the events could've been different). [
|
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 28 Mar 2012 00:32:48 |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Female drow dancers dancing in a ring of dread
