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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Mar 2012 : 03:29:57
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The only good thing about it is the super-quick dog that looks a little bit cute even though it resembles a frog. The rest of the movie is quite disappointing. But I'm not here to discuss how the movie sucks big time...
I wonder, if humans from Earth migrate to Toril, will they exhibit the same capabilities as John Carter in Mars, given how different the physics of Toril is?
[Edit] Conversely, would Toril's humans exhibit 'superpowers' if they go to Earth?
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Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 23 Mar 2012 23:16:41
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36814 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2012 : 04:06:49
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| I don't think the physics are all that different, other than gunpowder and electronics not working. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31792 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2012 : 04:43:09
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Agreed.
We've known, right since the beginning of the published Realms, that "The physics of the Realms are slightly out of sync with the rest of the planes, so that gunpowder and many technological devices which operate on electronics do not function. Equivalent devices may be developed by player-characters. DMs judgment is advised as to what may be allowed into the world." [DM's Sourcebook of the Realms pg. 9] |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Kris the Grey
Senior Scribe
USA
422 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2012 : 05:17:43
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As the fellow probably running the most 'Earth people go to the Realms' adventures this side of Ed (Lol), I can say I've never given my 'Earther' PCs special powers MERELY because they were from Earth originally. Okay, I do give ONE, the innate ability to understand spoken common as if it were their native tongue, but that just keeps them alive for more than 5 minutes. The major power any Earther visiting the Realms has is lore, which varies from person to person. Someone never having heard of the Realms is out of luck, a long time DM or sage from hereabouts is a powerhouse of useful information!
That said, since Earthers are 'off worlders' and I have almost always had a 'meta-plot' behind my 'Earth guys come to the Realms' adventures, I tend to give my PCs 'powers' consistent with that meta plot. Most of them are designed to give the characters an initial 'leg up' on survivability in a Realms environment (having innate protections, or being harder to kill permanently), because absent being a special forces soldier or sword fighting trainer in real life, most of us have rather thin 'skills on the ground' that promote long life in a Middle Ages style world. Lol.
Otherwise, a human here is a human there and vice versa. My Toril sun is a little more orange than yellow in the light it casts than our own, but that doesn't make for Supermen (just a neat piece of flavor text).
What I do like about 'John Carter; is that it sits squarely in that classic 'Real World to Fantasy World Cross Over' genre of fantasy fiction that I adore so very much. For that, I will watch it on Netflix when it comes out. Lol. |
Kris the Grey - Member in Good Standing of the Watchful Order of Magists and Protectors, the Arcane Guild of Silverymoon, and the Connecticut Bar Association |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2012 : 09:19:20
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Simply travelling to another planet/world is hardly going to imbue an individual with "superhuman" abilities. NASA astronauts could leap much further on the moon, but they sure looked clumsy to me. I chalk this one up next to "mutant superpowers", it might look great in imagination, a movie, a pulpy fantasy setting but is otherwise just nonsense.
Of course the Realms are indeed a pulpy fantasy setting. But the "rules" of the setting are really about magic, not about physics, so I'd surmise anything superhuman John Carter could do in the Realms would have to be explained from the context of magic.
There are innumerable examples of people visiting Toril from other worlds (including our own). Realmspace is also a major destination for spelljammers. I submit that humans from other worlds would not possess any superhuman abilities in the Realms unless they already possessed such at their origin worlds; in that case, they're not really human anyways. The OP's concept does apply to many who originate from other planes and dimensions, but again these are basically described in the context of magic (or divinity, or psionics, or another synonym) or they are already superhumans who possess these superhuman powers in their native environment. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 23 Mar 2012 09:24:32 |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2012 : 10:34:57
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| Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't there girallons (a.k.a. white martians under a non-copywrighted name) in the Realms? |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2012 : 13:00:00
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| I haven't seen the movie nor read the Burroughs books, so what abilities does John Carter have? Toril and Earth are roughly the same sized planets, so any gravity based physics (most) should be similar. |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2012 : 13:04:33
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I dont think that even if humans go to Mars we will be able to jump around like that let alone if we go the realms.
I agree that the movie was a bit disappointing but it wasn't as bad as the reviews led me to believe though after losing around 200 million a doubt we will see a sequel. Its a pity because I think if it had been handled properly this series had a chance to become something. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2012 : 14:16:40
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| How much money a movie makes or loses, how many people see it ... contrary to popular notions perpetuated by all those shiny little golden trophies the celebrities give to each other every year, these are not factors which really determine whether a movie is good or bad. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2012 : 14:26:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
How much money a movie makes or loses, how many people see it ... contrary to popular notions perpetuated by all those shiny little golden trophies the celebrities give to each other every year, these are not factors which really determine whether a movie is good or bad.
No, but as the context of the poster above you mentioned it in was whether it would see a sequel, I concur with him that it is unlikely as long as it lost money.
It is possible for a movie that I feel is artistically inferior to be popular or for one I see merit in to fail commercially. However, it is extremely unlikely that commercial failures will see sequels. |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2012 : 16:52:07
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| That is exactly what i meant. many great movies have been commercial disasters and/or ignored at the Oscars. The most famous example being Citizen Kane. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3745 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2012 : 17:55:20
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| -Given that we haven't been told that Elminster suddenly develops all sorts of other extra abilities outside of him being an Archmage and Chosen of Mystra when visiting Earth, I would assume the opposite isn't true, and that people from Earth visiting Abeir-Toril don't develop extra abilities either. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2012 : 18:34:34
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| From a strictly AD&D rules perspective, different worlds (or Alternate Primes if you prefer) are all equivalent in the grand cosmic scheme of spheres and planes and things. Humans and other natives of these worlds are essentially identical on every world unless specifically stated otherwise. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3745 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2012 : 18:45:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
From a strictly AD&D rules perspective, different worlds (or Alternate Primes if you prefer) are all equivalent in the grand cosmic scheme of spheres and planes and things. Humans and other natives of these worlds are essentially identical on every world unless specifically stated otherwise.
-While you're not wrong, as Mark can attest to, this is something that is inherently problematic when you consider the difference between how various Crystal Spheres work- most notably, magicians in the Forgotten Realms utilize the Weave to interact and shape magic, while other world don't necessarily have/need one. Is acclimating oneself with it (or existing without it) an instantaneous process, does it take time (if so, how much), and so on. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Kris the Grey
Senior Scribe
USA
422 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2012 : 18:49:52
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I'm with LK and Ayrik pretty much here. I am interested in your view on my 'universal translator' boon gentlemen. Reasonable considering the circumstances or just too easy? I do make my 'Earther' players learn Realmsian written tongues the old fashioned way and they also still speak in oddly accented common, using unusual vocabulary, and strange colloquialisms that serve to give them away as odd to a local without an active effort to blend in on their part.
On Elminster's (and the other Chosen's) visits to Earth, I'd always sort of assumed that Earth, lacking a Weave, was a kind of 'low magic environment' and that Elminster (and the other Chosen) were thus basically only able to do complex magics here by virtue of their innate status (i.e. the essence of Mystra/aka Silver Fire that they carried within them). |
Kris the Grey - Member in Good Standing of the Watchful Order of Magists and Protectors, the Arcane Guild of Silverymoon, and the Connecticut Bar Association |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2012 : 19:26:53
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Toril is something like 20% larger then Earth (I forget the exact figure), which means it should have greater gravity and therefor the opposite would occur - Torillians would be 'super' by comparison.
However, it is obviously much less dense (probably due to the vast Underdark), because no such anomalies have ever been reported by travelers between the two worlds.
Time probably also flows a bit different, but not enough to notice (for short periods).
Interestingly, some form of (limited?) Weave/magical field must exist around Earthspace, because no problems with spellcasting have ever been reported either (if Earth didn't have any magic, then planeswalkers couldn't leave once there).
Ergo, if the Weave is like an OS (operating System) - something Ed has likened it to - then the greater D&D universe must be akin to the internet - certain universal rules must apply, despite each world having its own set of protocols (OS). In fact, Planeswalking to completely magic-dead worlds (like Athas?) shouldn't even be possible - they would be like a computer (Amiga?) with no connection to the 'net' at all.
I wonder if Earth is running Linux... 
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
From a strictly AD&D rules perspective, different worlds (or Alternate Primes if you prefer) are all equivalent in the grand cosmic scheme of spheres and planes and things. Humans and other natives of these worlds are essentially identical on every world unless specifically stated otherwise.
-While you're not wrong, as Mark can attest to, this is something that is inherently problematic when you consider the difference between how various Crystal Spheres work- most notably, magicians in the Forgotten Realms utilize the Weave to interact and shape magic, while other world don't necessarily have/need one. Is acclimating oneself with it (or existing without it) an instantaneous process, does it take time (if so, how much), and so on.
Continuing the computer analogies, people are 'uploaded' (E-mailed?  ) to other worlds, and during that process, they are 'translated' into something the receiving OS can understand (there must be an equivalent of a 'browser').
So, in other words, the Elminster that appears on earth isn't precisely the same as the one on Toril - that is a translated version...
Which makes me wonder - can two distinct versions travel to different worlds, through some sort of magical accident, similar to transporter malfunctions from ST:tOS? Would it be possible that the two would both return to their world of origin, assuming they were the 'real one'? (and now I'm picturing Manshoon as Dr.Doom again).
And Could this phenomena be what deities tap-into when they create world-specific aspects?
On the other hand, the set of 'universal rules' (magical internet) that applies would be VERY hard to reconstruct in game-terms - what language does the new arrival speak? If it goes by population, then shouldn't Elminster be speaking Chinese?  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 23 Mar 2012 19:39:53 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2012 : 19:36:14
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Lord Karsus -
There are some canon details which differentiate strains of humans from different worlds. One example would be humans native to Krynn never possessing any psionics while many on Toril and Oerth do. A more blatant example would be the superhumans of Athas, though I maintain these are no longer the same species as the humans of every other world.
Your point about magic use is interesting. I suppose it could be said that a certain genetic affinity is required to be a magic user; even in the Realms there are some people who are naturally "born" to it and some who meet every requirement yet will never be able to cast even the simplest cantrip. This might explain why so few (if any) people on our world can use magic, while it is far more abundant in the Realms. Even though humans from the Realms might possess a magic-enabling gene (or lack our magic-blocking gene), I'd still maintain humans from both worlds are the same species. I will concede that a man from Shadowdale visiting our Earth might seem quite superhuman to us if he were able to cast spells here.
Kris the Grey -
Your "universal translator" boon strictly adheres to the rules of every D&D edition; there is always a little passage about importing PCs from other worlds, and it always offers the same little bit of assumed handwavium by saying "characters can now speak the Common tongue". Common is identical in syntax to English, about the only thing which sometimes changes is the lettering and even that's just a straightforward cipher substitution using differing symbols built around the same alphabet. It seems that English, Realmspeak, Ansalon Tradespeak, and Planar are nearly identical languages, it's all just Common whether you're in Cormyr or London or Sigil or Wildspace.
From a practical standpoint, it's a game and certain little concessions are allowed/overlooked to keep it moving. We don't see the characters in Stargate painstakingly overcoming the language barrier every time they meet alien people on a new world because that'd fill up too much time with dullness - so we kinda handwave it with the explanation that one of the main characters is a linguistic genius and thus everybody (including the aliens) always speaks and understands the same English. If you prefer, the "universal translator" property might be a permanent comprehend languages or tongues spell integrated within whatever magic brought your PCs to Faerūn, it might even be a boon from Deneir or another divinity, and it might come with a price. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 23 Mar 2012 19:45:31 |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2012 : 20:07:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Toril is something like 20% larger then Earth (I forget the exact figure), which means it should have greater gravity and therefor the opposite would occur - Torillians would be 'super' by comparison.
12% larger, Ed said. Though I can't recall at this moment whether that meant a 12% greater diameter or 12% more total volume. Very different things, of course.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
However, it is obviously much less dense (probably due to the vast Underdark), because no such anomalies have ever been reported by travelers between the two worlds.
Indeed it seems that Toril is somewhat less dense than Earth, because the specific gravity of the two is close. I seem to recall Toril having slightly less, but it's hardly worth mentioning.
Of course, given that we don't know the first thing about what lurks in the true depths of Toril, we don't know why it has whatever density it does. The Underdark is vast, yes, but even so, below the deepest canonical location described there are hundreds and thousands of miles of unknown things. It's quite possible that the density of Toril has little to do with whatever physical materials are located below the known Underdark and more to do with metaphysics, portals, primordials, etc.
What we do know, at least, is that the geology of Toril is not the least bit similar to Earth. The Underdark does not appear to get any hotter, on average, with increased depth. There are cool caverns brimming with life and civilisation deep enough under the surface of Toril that nothing we have yet found here on Earth can live in the hellish heat that on Earth correlates with depth, except some single-cellular organisms that surprised the hell out of people when they were (fairly recently) discovered. Even so, the deepest we've found life on Earth is a lot shallower than some of the Underdark cities on Toril.
Definitely not Kansas anymore.
General reply to thread:
All the same, there is no reason to assume that Earthlings are any stronger on Toril or vice versa and a fair bit of evidence to suggest that this is not the case. Of course, a sedentary lifestyle tends to make people weaker on average than an active one, which argues against an average Earthling, but training methods and nutritional science are better on Earth, which suggests that top athletes from here might have an advantage.
This does not take into account the supernatural ability that Torilian humans have to improve far beyond physical strength, agility and durability. By a variety of methods involving divine favour (acknowledged or not), magical processes and other, more mysterious means that may involve new forms of magic less understood than the formalised ones, people with great reputations for heroism or other notability appear to acquire superpowers.
Some theorists may argue that this is linked to the power of belief, i.e. because people believe them to be larger than life, they are. If so, their abilities would derive from much the same source as those of gods. Others say that their achievements, the death of their foes and the acquisition of wealth are all part of a mystic ritual of sacrifical magic that imbue them with awesome powers.
All the same, no matter what the origin of someone was, if he is on Toril or many of the other planes, he is eligable to benefit from such rituals or power of belief. Only on Earth and similar worlds, where magic is also beyond natives and the gods do not appear or act directly, does it appear not to work. |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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Edited by - Icelander on 23 Mar 2012 20:09:26 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4690 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2012 : 20:49:57
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quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
I haven't seen the movie nor read the Burroughs books, so what abilities does John Carter have? Toril and Earth are roughly the same sized planets, so any gravity based physics (most) should be similar.
John Charter because of grown in a much heavy gravity, Mars about 1/3 of Earth at the time Burroughs wrote the books (currently science believes Mars gravity about 38 percents of Earth) and Earth man on Mars can jump higher, muscles stressed by Earth gravity could appear in many ways three times stronger then a comparable martian. Endurance of course longer as well, the human body has to do less to do the same thing. Those were the main combat attributes of John Carter of Mars, there were other features as well.
As to OP, the gravity is about the same, there would be little advantage of disadvantage of an Earthier being on Toril.
To others that have posted concerning the movie, I saw a few promos and I knew I did not want to consider even watching of SciFi when it becomes released for cable. I have no idea why what might have become a series of movies was so poorly executed, oh in fairness I only saw a few promos however they are supposed to some of the best most interesting parts of a movie. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2012 : 21:03:31
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On a related note...
The new 'Titans' movie seems to have some really good fodder for us to pilfer. I didn't see the last one - I heard it was pretty bad, but I'm not really that concerned with acting or plot here. This movie seems to echo a LOT of what happened with the spellplague (the 'release' of the primordials), so the effects might allow us to see the potential in that scenario (as I have said often, the Primordials are my favorite piece of 4e lore).
I saw a different trailer last night, showing Hades - I think that could be very helpful to any DM wanting to run a 'trip to hell' adventure path.
Damn if that trailer doesn't make me want to run a D&D game tonight!  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 23 Mar 2012 21:08:47 |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2012 : 21:11:40
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I have to say that I found the Primordial-Gods conflict uninspiring in artistic terms for the very reason it is so very much a redressed plot from Greek mythology, used in countless bad comics and movies.
I get that a lot of stories contain a kernel that resonates with a lot of people. All the same, Toril had creation myths that weren't just rehashes of Earth-mythology and I didn't feel the need to introduce such a tired old chestnut into an all-ready crowded mythography.
The War of Light and Darkness just struck me as much more interesting and while it had parallels to some familiar myths, it also had a uniquely Realmsian spin. Compared with another Titans vs. Gods rehash, it was fresh. |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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Kris the Grey
Senior Scribe
USA
422 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2012 : 21:30:04
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| With you on that one too Icelander. Selune/Mystra vs. Shar FTW. |
Kris the Grey - Member in Good Standing of the Watchful Order of Magists and Protectors, the Arcane Guild of Silverymoon, and the Connecticut Bar Association |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2012 : 23:00:46
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quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
I haven't seen the movie nor read the Burroughs books, so what abilities does John Carter have? Toril and Earth are roughly the same sized planets, so any gravity based physics (most) should be similar.
He became relatively stronger and "light," allowing him to jump so high he can probably reach the top of a mountain in one leap.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
On a related note...
The new 'Titans' movie seems to have some really good fodder for us to pilfer. I didn't see the last one - I heard it was pretty bad...
Hardly. The acting is decent enough, so is the story, though those who love Greek mythology would either praise it to the heavens or condemn it to hell. Besides, it was a success. Otherwise, the producers would not have bothered for a sequel. And oh, they god Hades right, among the many characters.
To all:
I slightly modified the OP. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 23 Mar 2012 23:16:15 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2012 : 23:28:53
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To try to answer my OP, and some things raised by fellow scribes:
I suppose it depends on many factors, not just a mere issue on the two worlds' physics. If it's just a common human, perhaps no change in abilities would be evident. If it's a magic-user, then surely there'd be a great difference. Earth does not have a Weave, and so Torilian wizards might have to relearn spellcasting, tap into whatever natural energy or 'magic' earth has, probably not so unlike how Pug (in his already Great One status) tried to relearn spellcasting when he went to Omadrabar, the Dasati homeworld, where magic works differently than it does in Midkemia. The gods play a big role, too. Rivalen should have had trouble using magic in Ephyras, a world consumed by Shar. But being Shar's favored servant, he didn't. And Elminster, if he were an 'ordinary' wizard, should have had difficulty casting even a basic spell when he went to earth. However, being Mystra's Chosen, and possessing silverfire, he didn't. Gods can extend their powers (to some extent) in many worlds; hence their servants are hardly helpless in foreign worlds. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 23 Mar 2012 23:30:24 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4690 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2012 : 23:35:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
I haven't seen the movie nor read the Burroughs books, so what abilities does John Carter have? Toril and Earth are roughly the same sized planets, so any gravity based physics (most) should be similar.
He became relatively stronger and "light," allowing him to jump so high he can probably reach the top of a mountain in one leap.
Only 50 foot was highest reported jump.
<snip>
quote:
To all:
I slightly modified the OP.
To the modification, a spell caster might be able to use magic on Earth. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3745 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2012 : 23:41:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
To others that have posted concerning the movie, I saw a few promos and I knew I did not want to consider even watching of SciFi when it becomes released for cable. I have no idea why what might have become a series of movies was so poorly executed, oh in fairness I only saw a few promos however they are supposed to some of the best most interesting parts of a movie.
-Surprised me, too. I haven't seen it, but you figure, what won't the audience like about a generic sc-fi action movie with plenty of eye catching special effects and fight scenes? |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2012 : 00:21:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
I haven't seen the movie nor read the Burroughs books, so what abilities does John Carter have? Toril and Earth are roughly the same sized planets, so any gravity based physics (most) should be similar.
He became relatively stronger and "light," allowing him to jump so high he can probably reach the top of a mountain in one leap.
Only 50 foot was highest reported jump.
Well, in the movie, the distance from where he jumped to the tower where the princess was preparing for her wedding is definitely way higher than 50 feet. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4690 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2012 : 00:39:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
He became relatively stronger and "light," allowing him to jump so high he can probably reach the top of a mountain in one leap.
Only 50 foot was highest reported jump.
Well, in the movie, the distance from where he jumped to the tower where the princess was preparing for her wedding is definitely way higher than 50 feet.
That reply was based on books, not the movie. The movie, based on promos, makes John Charter far more powerful then Burroughs ever wrote. Of course that copyright is expired and the Idea of a trademark of a name "John Carter" back then likely did not occur. I suspect even "Tarzan" was not trademarked. They did not do business much that way back then. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2012 : 09:44:59
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But the critical issue is that science is a package deal, one cannot select some science to fit the facts and ignore/discard the rest. Not without invalidating all science (even the "privileged" science which receives preferential treatment).
Sure, gravity on Mars is roughly 1/3 that of Earth, Earth humans could indeed jump much higher on Mars than on Earth. They'd also start asphyxiating from lack of oxygen (while their lung tissues strain, tear, and boil within relative vacuum pressure) before they could land. I doubt an unprotected human on the surface of Mars would be able to make a second or third jump, I think it far more likely he'd be a spastic gurgling wheezing dying lump on the ground.
So what we're left with is a story, call it science fiction call it fantasy, where it all boils down to an arbitrarily pseudo-realistic setting and/or the characters being able to use "magical" (rule-making) powers. John Carter's powers in the Realms setting depend entirely on the judgements of those importing him to the Realms ... judgements which are no less arbitrary than the settings themselves, even when officially submitted by a "canon" source. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 24 Mar 2012 09:48:24 |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2012 : 10:48:55
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Well, John Carter of Mars was written a fair while ago. Since there were actual scientists claiming that Mars had breathable atmosphere, we probably shouldn't be all that hard on Burroughs for going with it.
Besides, he goes there by magic. Who's to say that the magic didn't 'fix' his body so that he could survive the local conditions?
Much the same as English-to-Common translation convention. Sure, it's nonsense scientifically, but it's the 'one impossible thing' which has to be there so that the story can happen at all. After all, John Carter appearing on Mars and then choking to death would have been a short novel series. |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2012 : 14:58:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
To others that have posted concerning the movie, I saw a few promos and I knew I did not want to consider even watching of SciFi when it becomes released for cable. I have no idea why what might have become a series of movies was so poorly executed, oh in fairness I only saw a few promos however they are supposed to some of the best most interesting parts of a movie.
-Surprised me, too. I haven't seen it, but you figure, what won't the audience like about a generic sc-fi action movie with plenty of eye catching special effects and fight scenes?
Its unrelatable.
To Buroughs' audience, 'Martians' were feasible. To us, its just silly nonsense. They would have done better to give it a Planet of the Apes-like update (modify the science to fit today's more advanced information).
In other words, have John Carter fall through a worm hole and wind-up on some strange, 'unknown' world (which could turn out to be Mars, either a million years into the future, or tens of thousands of years into the past).
Without an update, its just...... dated.
EDIT: And the dog was just TOO 'Jar-Jar Binks', IMHO. A movie should either try to be a serious drama, or ridiculous Disney affair aimed at children - it can't do both. I'm not saying it isn't possible - just epically hard to be taken seriously with such silliness implemented (especially in a film aimed specifically at older audiences - kids have no clue who John Carter is). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 24 Mar 2012 15:03:00 |
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John Carter
