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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Mar 2012 : 11:43:21
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Because the phaerimm weren't operating and living in a vacuum. There were (and are) several power groups/interests that have worked against the phaerimm for millenia.
Which powergroups do you mean that twarted the phaerims plans while inside sharnwall? they must have been very powerfull to handle them when the phaerim where able to do all those damage after getting out and they didn't seem to have any interest in fighting them after they got out.
The only ones we know about are Melegaunt and his group but they can only have been a minor annoyance for them. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6695 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2012 : 12:41:32
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The sarrukh for one.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2012 : 12:51:42
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| There where sarrukh trapped insinde the sharn wall? Didn't know that. What happened to them? |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1607 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2012 : 13:50:56
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The wall prevents the physical entrance or leaving of non-phaerimm? I thought it doesn't, that's how the phaerimm inside could communicate with those outside, getting new spells, exchanging slaves and so on, as described in the Drizzt's Guide.
EDIT: Hey, there's another clue on where they could get bugbears, since slave trading WAS done, according to this book. Even though I haven't found references of bugbears around Myth Drannor and Cormanthor, at least. |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
Edited by - Barastir on 08 Mar 2012 14:00:11 |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2012 : 10:03:10
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| Ah you are right of course. I remembered the Vasaans rescueing Melegaunt from beeing trapped inside the sharn wall, but that wasn't the case. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2012 : 08:35:39
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quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
There where sarrukh trapped insinde the sharn wall?
I don't think so.
But that doesn't mean they haven't worked against them. They had, even outside the Sharn Wall, and those which were imprisoned were not the only ones they fought.
quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
Ah you are right of course. I remembered the Vasaans rescueing Melegaunt from beeing trapped inside the sharn wall, but that wasn't the case.
No, he wasn't trapped. It's important to note that he's one of the world's greatest and subtlest manipulators. If he were trapped, the phaerimm could have feasted on him in mere seconds. His location and seeming impasse were all planned, so that elven wizards guarding the tomb near the Sharn Wall could hurl spells which would 'inadvertently' clash with his own, thereby punching a hole in the hole and freeing the phaerimm. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2535 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2012 : 15:46:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
Ah you are right of course. I remembered the Vasaans rescueing Melegaunt from beeing trapped inside the sharn wall, but that wasn't the case.
No, he wasn't trapped. It's important to note that he's one of the world's greatest and subtlest manipulators. If he were trapped, the phaerimm could have feasted on him in mere seconds. His location and seeming impasse were all planned, so that elven wizards guarding the tomb near the Sharn Wall could hurl spells which would 'inadvertently' clash with his own, thereby punching a hole in the hole and freeing the phaerimm.
IIRC, that was intentionally left iffy. On the level of "was it a pure acident or a quickly grasped opportunity?", since Melegaunt said they planned to release phaerimm in a magic-weak area and when ready to cull the problem.
Planning this coincidence from the start would require a godlike level of prescience with godlike or better precision. For one, if Galaeron was out of magic missiles or chose to hurl an elemental spell instead, nothing would happen. If he was slightly less autious and more cowboy-ish and interfered before there was a complete passage, Melegaunt's shadowmagic won't clash with his at all. And so on. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2012 : 19:35:27
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However, it's also possible he'd long ago observed how Galaeron fought, what his reflexes were when cornered or faced by foes. He spent centuries in that place, so it's not unlikely. Granted, Galaeron might do something different than Melegaunt expected, given a lot of factors not present when he previously observed the elf. But he knew and understood the risk. Life's a gamble most of the time. And he must have known that, too. Hence, he proceeded with his plans, despite the many things that could go wrong. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Snow
Learned Scribe
USA
125 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2012 : 01:15:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakuta Khan
In GHOTRand also the Novel "The Siege" and "The Sorcerer" it is stated that the Phaerimm led ARMIES of Bugbears and Lizardfolk against waterdeeps relief army as well as against evereska itself.
where did they grow this army? or recruit?
Lizardfolk can ( imho ) be easily found in greater numbers, but with bugbears??
These brutes are as a race not openly know as having the numbers to form armies.
Here's another possible option:
The 3 book sources you listed above were accurate in that Bugbears were indeed staple components of the Phaerimm's invading armies. But perhaps they failed to mention that they were *Planar* bugbears. Borrowing the template descriptors from 3.5 ... perhaps they were Fiendish or Half-Fiendish Bugbears. Meaning that liberal usage of Planar Binding type spells (or unique spells that bring planar creatures to Faerun en masse) were used to heavily populate the ranks.
In essence, this means that the book's information lines were accurate ... just not fully descriptive.  |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2012 : 03:03:50
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Good point.
Or, who knows, those bugbears were actually different creatures (lesser and common) which the phaerimm polymorphed. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3775 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2012 : 18:36:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Or, who knows, those bugbears were actually different creatures (lesser and common) which the phaerimm polymorphed.
-You know, that puts 'armies led by magicians' in a whole new perspective. Why bother with cannon fodder when plenty organizations have the capacity to transform them into much stronger things with relative ease. That "breaks the world", so to speak. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know) |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8101 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2012 : 18:47:07
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| I had one player try something of the sort some years ago. Playing AD&D (1E), buying tons of live chickens (one gold piece would buy 200!), and casting polymorph other to turn them into more useful creatures. Even given a high mortality rate it still produces decent yields: even if you assume chickens have a CON score of only 3 then you could still expect 35% of them to survive their System Shock checks, the rest can be cooked for dinner. Although I can see it being important for your new bugbears to not have the minds of chickens, but it's only a matter of time before they fail their daily saves to resist mental polymorph (this didn't matter much to my player, since he was primarily attempting to harvest body parts of exotic creatures to use as potion components). Still, given large numbers of phaerimm, larger numbers of lowly victim beasts to cast spells upon, 1E rules, and a lot of time ... an army can be built from scratch. All the slots for spells of other levels might be used for more traditional conjuring and enchantment magics, plus any number of illusions to fortify the ranks. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 23 Mar 2012 18:52:18 |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1607 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2012 : 19:26:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Or, who knows, those bugbears were actually different creatures (lesser and common) which the phaerimm polymorphed.
If I was a Phaerimm, maybe I'd polymorph the lesser creatures into something more powerful or useful than bugbears (maybe minotaurs, or even something more magical or a creature that flies)... Unless it is somehow easier to "make" bugbears than some other monster. |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2012 : 22:53:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Or, who knows, those bugbears were actually different creatures (lesser and common) which the phaerimm polymorphed.
[snip]Unless it is somehow easier to "make" bugbears than some other monster.
Which was likely the case.
The beholders and illithids belong to the relatively higher echelon in the monsters' food chain. And some of them (that became the phaerimm's slaves) were probably polymorphed from lesser beings (If a Zulkir of Transmutation [Maligor] could transform a mere rodent into a ferocious beast, how much more a cabal of ancient spellcasters can do?). However, doing so could have depleted their magic at some point, and therefore resorted to transforming the rest of the lesser creatures into bugbears, which required lesser firepower and time. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Snow
Learned Scribe
USA
125 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2012 : 00:34:20
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Well, none of the various rule editions have shown a game-mechanic explanation of why a certain lower-tier (in terms of individual power & strategic usefulness) monstrous humanoid [i.e. the bugbear] is "easier" to create via Polymorph magic than the more combat-valuable monstrous humanoids in the Faerunian theatre. Keep in mind, Bugbears are nifty middle-tier combatants (kobolds, gobbos, orcs at the bottom rung). But when you have serious wiz/sorc spellcasters who are slinging transmutation polymorph magic en masse, there's a lot better conversion options than the lowly bugbear.
That's why I'm tending to think there's template-addition angle to the massed bugbear armies. It would make sense too. There are other planes where *ALL* the Faerunian races have higher demographic densities. High-level conjurers would know this. Via planar travel or divinatory magic, they can find large groups of nearly any race that would be amenable to mercenary work. Perhaps this large group of fiendish bugbears had a terrific bargaining price that gave the Phaerimm the most bang for the buck. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2012 : 01:32:24
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Pretty much all the bugbears were mind-controlled by the illithids. So I doubt if there was any bargaining that's done. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Topic |
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Phearimm attack on evereska BUGBEAR ARMIES??
