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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Mar 2012 : 05:31:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
If the Council of Overgods (as I'd like to call them) did, then there should have been no more Ao in 4E. They don't have to try to eliminate him, because they could if they set their minds to it.
Uh... Ao was written out of the picture in 4E.
So maybe you have the right of it, Wooly... maybe Dennis' scenario is exactly what happened. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2012 : 05:33:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Not entirely. Besides, it's impossible to rid of an overgod completely. If greater deities can die and then rise again, how much more the overgods?!
And I'll have to admit the truth of this as well... but one would think that the more difficult a deity is to kill, the more difficult they would be to bring back... I would expect some sort of balance that way. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2012 : 05:43:00
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If the Luminous Being, Ao's Master, or the Council of Overgods got rid of him, I would expect them to assign someone else on the post, to oversee Ao's crystal sphere. No one that we heard of was promoted for that job. Hence, we can say Ao is still around, somewhere. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3766 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2012 : 05:44:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Not entirely. Besides, it's impossible to rid of an overgod completely. If greater deities can die and then rise again, how much more the overgods?!
-Not in-setting; just in the hearts and pens of designers. That said, Plague of Spells, which was one of the first 4e-era novels to come out, written by Bruce Cordell, one of the 4e designers, out mentioned Ao- had a character improbably invoking Ao, as in "What in the name of Ao is going on?", or some such- so so much for that almost immediately after saying that Ao was going to basically be ignored and forgotten about in future source material... |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know) |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2012 : 05:48:11
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| Vaguely recalling Rich Baker's words on the Wizards' boards back in '08, he said that "Ao was slowly being phased out of the 4e setting." So not an immediate transition, but, I suppose, time enough for the writers/designers to decide how best to slowly ensure the absence of Ao in their works. |
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2012 : 06:06:06
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But Rich is not joining the 5E team...So who knows... |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2012 : 06:28:16
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I don't see the need for a focus on Ao, really. Aside from the odd mention here and there.
Before Ao was introduced it was evident that the gods weren't able to act in Faerūn as if they were free-willed super-powered people. That could well be because of what a god is: both greater and lesser than mortals. Somewhat like Glorantha's Cosmic Compromise, their identification with cosmic and archetypal forces imprisons and freezes them as free actors. Ao seems to me a clumsy attempt to personify those metaphysical laws.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12194 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2012 : 14:34:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
If the Council of Overgods (as I'd like to call them) did, then there should have been no more Ao in 4E. They don't have to try to eliminate him, because they could if they set their minds to it.
Uh... Ao was written out of the picture in 4E.
Really? I only bought the initial campaign setting for 4E and nothing after it. Just wondering, how did they write him out? Like they claimed he's left / gone / or just mystery? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3766 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2012 : 18:00:00
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Really? I only bought the initial campaign setting for 4E and nothing after it. Just wondering, how did they write him out? Like they claimed he's left / gone / or just mystery?
-Ao was just ignored by the writers/designers. Nothing was changed/altered in-game, but the decision was made to just kind of forget that it existed and not bring Ao up, effectively marginalizing it out of relevance. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know) |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2012 : 18:10:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Really? I only bought the initial campaign setting for 4E and nothing after it. Just wondering, how did they write him out? Like they claimed he's left / gone / or just mystery?
-Ao was just ignored by the writers/designers. Nothing was changed/altered in-game, but the decision was made to just kind of forget that it existed and not bring Ao up, effectively marginalizing it out of relevance.
And I have to say this is a decision I agree with. Honestly, I would have just reset to the OGB, thus eliminating Ao, but that would have taken the ToT, Cyric, two deaths of Mystra, and the Spellplague with him... not that I would have minded, particularly in the cases of Mystra's deaths (the earlier LN Mystra was far better) and Cyric... Myrkul and Bhaal were far more interesting deities. At least the designers saw the wisdom of bringing back Bane.  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2012 : 18:13:07
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Vaguely recalling Rich Baker's words on the Wizards' boards back in '08, he said that "Ao was slowly being phased out of the 4e setting." So not an immediate transition, but, I suppose, time enough for the writers/designers to decide how best to slowly ensure the absence of Ao in their works.
I recall that conversation (and we were VERY lucky Rich was so candid with us).
The gist I got from that was that we wouldn't have any mentions of him in 4e, so the 'slowly phased out' part was from a meta-gaming standpoint, and not in-game.
Just how I took it, is all - YMMV.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I've not read those novels; I'm going by info in the FRCG and the web info we had in the run-up to 4E. And in one of those places, it was explicitly stated that Shar prevented the ascension of a new deity of magic.
A lot of what was stated point-blank in the GHotR (and also with the release of 4e) has been recanted. Call it 'innacurate reporting', or "the mysteries of the heavens run deep", or just call it back-peddling (my personal favorite  )
While it irks me there is any need to fix FR at all, I am also greatly pleased they recognize it (finally) and are doing something about it. I am more then willing to chuck-out a few errant entries in the GHotR to get us back on track. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 03 Mar 2012 18:14:01 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3766 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2012 : 18:24:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
And I have to say this is a decision I agree with.
-I have no problem with it. Really, that's how it should have always been, to be honest (and, for the most part, that is how it was). Ao was relevant once, during the Time of Troubles. After that, it went back to being the more-or-less plot concept that it was. Ao erased the minds of mortals to remember it's appearance, and ignores the supplications of those who do remember it's existence. In effect, Ao is not relevant to anyone living on Faerūn. As such, no reason to even give Ao any mentions in sourcebooks outside of "Yeah, Ao exists". |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know) |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 03 Mar 2012 18:24:39 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2012 : 01:08:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I recall that conversation (and we were VERY lucky Rich was so candid with us).
The gist I got from that was that we wouldn't have any mentions of him in 4e, so the 'slowly phased out' part was from a meta-gaming standpoint, and not in-game.
Just how I took it, is all - YMMV.
I tend to view it as referring to both the meta- and inner-game perspectives, which could help to explain those early references to Ao in the 4e novels, like Cordell's "Sovereignty" books. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3766 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2012 : 20:00:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The gist I got from that was that we wouldn't have any mentions of him in 4e, so the 'slowly phased out' part was from a meta-gaming standpoint, and not in-game.
Just how I took it, is all - YMMV.
-In game, Ao was/should of been all but forgotten, since it's memory was disappearing since it's appearance over Waterdeep at the end of the Time of Troubles. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know) |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2012 : 07:47:33
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I don't see why one should dislike Ao, or his mere existence. It's not that he's been openly participating in the affairs of gods and men.
Besides, he pretty much embodies what everyone should be thankful for---Balance. Without it, the world becomes either too dark, or too goodly. A few hints of his continued existence is enough; he doesn't necessarily need to be written out. Besides, why would a few novels still mention him if he's supposed to be 'forgotten'? |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 31 May 2012 07:47:59 |
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Eldacar
Senior Scribe
438 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2012 : 08:41:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I don't see why one should dislike Ao, or his mere existence. It's not that he's been openly participating in the affairs of gods and men.
He did answer a prayer. Once. Which I found very impressive.
I did like the way he was portrayed (or the lack of portrayal, if you will) in the Baldur's Gate series. When Cyric comes to speak with you in your Pocket Plane, he basically states that he won't interfere in the Bhaalspawn crisis because "even Ao" has taken an interest in the affair. On the other hand, I think Cyric also says that you shouldn't be expected to know who he is or anything about why he's interested, because it's well above your pay-grade (paraphrased) and thus irrelevant to your existence. |
"The Wild Mages I have met exhibit a startling disregard for common sense, and are often meddling with powers far beyond their own control." ~Volo
"Not unlike a certain travelogue author with whom I am unfortunately acquainted." ~Elminster |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2012 : 08:54:56
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Which book is that? I only read the first. It was okay, but not enough to keep me completely interested.
The Bhaalspawn Crisis is hardly a human's affair, so... |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Mystryl and Mystra: A Mystery of the Realms
