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Originally posted by Markustay

@Erik - that was LordKarsus' argument (although I completely agree with it). Despite popular belief, we are NOT the same person (I think he may even be a Yankee fan!)

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Originally posted by Wolfhound75

@Everyone:
Let me rephrase the question I was asking though because my own internal science geek may have muddied the waters with the choice of paraphrasing Darwin's title. Why don't Humans have have multiple versions with differing stat modifications like the other common PC races? We've gone far enough to say this character is a 'Calishite Human', an 'Illuskan Human' or a 'Tethyrian Human' as far as description of them. This strikes me as similar to 'High Elf', 'Wild Elf', 'Moon Elf' or whatever. So why do the various, if you'll forgive the use of the word because I couldn't think of a better one, "ethnicities" of elves, dwarves, etc. get different stat modifications but Humans do not?

This is one of those things that I just can't stop making me go "Hmmmmm...... I wonder....?"


Good Hunting!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Lord Karsus

quote:

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Originally posted by Wolfhound75

@Everyone:
Let me rephrase the question I was asking though because my own internal science geek may have muddied the waters with the choice of paraphrasing Darwin's title. Why don't Humans have have multiple versions with differing stat modifications like the other common PC races? We've gone far enough to say this character is a 'Calishite Human', an 'Illuskan Human' or a 'Tethyrian Human' as far as description of them. This strikes me as similar to 'High Elf', 'Wild Elf', 'Moon Elf' or whatever. So why do the various, if you'll forgive the use of the word because I couldn't think of a better one, "ethnicities" of elves, dwarves, etc. get different stat modifications but Humans do not?

This is one of those things that I just can't stop making me go "Hmmmmm...... I wonder....?"


Good Hunting!

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-If you modify the ability scores of different ethnicities- Chultan Humans are genetically stronger (+ to STR) than Shou Humans, but stupider (- to INT), or vice versa, whatever- you are going to run into the same problems vis-a-vis percieved racism. If you have modified skills/feats- Calashite Humans who generally grow up in the desert wastes are more skilled in trekking the deserts (+ to Survival skill) than Illuskan Humans who are more acclimated to colder climes- that is something that I am a semi-proponent of. You'd run into problems if, statistically, all Humans from X have a plus to whatever skill if the character in question comes from Y. I am more in favor of regional-type bonuses to skills/feats/whatever, rather than pure racial/ethnic bonuses. That allows you to have a Human who was raised by Dwarves (Cattie-Brie, for example) be knowledgeable as if they were a Dwarf, and so on. [bold added]

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jakk

quote:

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Originally posted by Lord Karsus

quote:

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Originally posted by Wolfhound75

@Everyone:
Let me rephrase the question I was asking though because my own internal science geek may have muddied the waters with the choice of paraphrasing Darwin's title. Why don't Humans have have multiple versions with differing stat modifications like the other common PC races? We've gone far enough to say this character is a 'Calishite Human', an 'Illuskan Human' or a 'Tethyrian Human' as far as description of them. This strikes me as similar to 'High Elf', 'Wild Elf', 'Moon Elf' or whatever. So why do the various, if you'll forgive the use of the word because I couldn't think of a better one, "ethnicities" of elves, dwarves, etc. get different stat modifications but Humans do not?

This is one of those things that I just can't stop making me go "Hmmmmm...... I wonder....?"


Good Hunting!

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-If you modify the ability scores of different ethnicities- Chultan Humans are genetically stronger (+ to STR) than Shou Humans, but stupider (- to INT), or vice versa, whatever- you are going to run into the same problems vis-a-vis percieved racism. If you have modified skills/feats- Calashite Humans who generally grow up in the desert wastes are more skilled in trekking the deserts (+ to Survival skill) than Illuskan Humans who are more acclimated to colder climes- that is something that I am a semi-proponent of. You'd run into problems if, statistically, all Humans from X have a plus to whatever skill if the character in question comes from Y. I am more in favor of regional-type bonuses to skills/feats/whatever, rather than pure racial/ethnic bonuses. That allows you to have a Human who was raised by Dwarves (Cattie-Brie, for example) be knowledgeable as if they were a Dwarf, and so on. [bold added]

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This is the same logic I use for all standard PC races. It actually allows for greater flexibility, and therefore variation, when designing subraces, because subrace variations are all skill/feat based. Ability score adjustments are variations from the human norm, and are only used for non-human races, apart from on an individual basis for human PCs according to the Pathfinder core rules. I also use slightly different ability score adjustments for other core PC races; elves gain +2 to Dex, Int, and either Wis or Cha (player choice; the player can also elect to add this bonus to one of Dex or Int, for a +4 total bonus, but must determine which one randomly), and dwarves gain +2 to Con and Wis, and an additional +2 to one or the other (player choice). Gnomes gain +2 to Dex, Con, and either Wis or Cha, and halflings gain +2 to Dex, Cha, and either Con or Wis. At the DM's option, I suppose the variable stat bonuses could be tied to one or another subrace, but I don't think it makes much difference; the variations are easily explained as a chromosomal thing (at the risk of being too scientific for a fantasy RPG). Because these races gain bonuses to up to three stats, humans gain bonuses to two: one of their choice, and one determined randomly (roll 1d6). A human with the "Lucky" trait (see PFRPG APG) can roll this twice and take the preferred roll, but cannot apply both bonuses to the same ability score; reroll any result that indicates such.

Edit: "half" races (such as half-elves) gain half of the bonuses of each parent; a half-elf would gain a +2 bonus and a +1 bonus, or three +1 bonuses, assigned as described for an elf, plus a single +2 bonus from her human parent, which is always assigned as desired (the human trait of individualism is dominant, since this is fantasy, after all...).

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