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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Feb 2012 : 04:52:55
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Is there a magical property somewhere that does something similar to; increase the critical multiplier of the weapon by one. ex. x2 becomes x3? Source?
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Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4436 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2012 : 05:27:33
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Keen weapon property doubles the Crit-range of bladed weapons.
There is one for Bludgeoning weapons too, but I honestly forget (Impact, maybe?). |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2012 : 05:32:22
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| I've seen similar questions at a variety of different forums. I don't think there is an official one that does this. 3rd party maybe? I may just invent it. Grievous? Lethal? Fatal? Murderous? Does this seem broken? |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4436 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2012 : 05:39:11
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quote:
Originally from the d20SRD.com site
Keen
This ability doubles the threat range of a weapon. Only piercing or slashing weapons can be keen. (If you roll this property randomly for an inappropriate weapon, reroll.) This benefit doesn’t stack with any other effect that expands the threat range of a weapon (such as the keen edge spell or the Improved Critical feat).
Moderate transmutation; CL 10th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, keen edge; Price +1 bonus.
The one for bludgeoning is in the Magic Item Compendium called Impact. It's the standard +1 Enchantment bonus (like Keen) and does the same thing.
As for it's brokeness, v3.5 says it no longer stacks with any other thing that decreases a weapon's threat range. I don't believe it's broken because you still have to confirm the critical hit for it to be really effective. |
Edited by - Diffan on 14 Feb 2012 05:40:35 |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2012 : 05:42:04
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| Not the threat-range, the threat multiplier. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4436 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2012 : 05:47:40
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| Ah, geez I'm so missing the mark today. I'm not sure if there is one for that. I always thought it'd be a "fixed" number. As for that being broken, "meh" depends on the weapon and the Threat Range of that weapon. I'd say a +3 or +4 enhancement bonus on the weapon would work well. But I'd also limit it to only an incrase of x1 of the multiplier. I like Grevious weapon myself. |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2012 : 06:06:03
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Something like this
Magical Weapon Special Property
Grievous: The magic of this weapon is capable of inflicting horrendous wounds. The critical multiplier of the enchanted weapon is increased by 1 (ex. Longsword 1d8 19-20 x2 becomes 1d8 19-20 x3). This benefit can only be applied once and does not stack with any other effect that increases the threat multiplier of the weapon. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Edited by - Fellfire on 14 Feb 2012 06:41:55 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4436 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2012 : 06:14:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
Something like this
Magical Weapon Special Property
Grievous: The magic of this weapon is capable of causing horrendous wounds. The critical multiplier of the enchanted weapon is increased by 1 (ex. Longsword 1d8 19-20 x2 becomes 1d8 19-20 x3). This benefit can only be applied once and does not stack with any other effect that increases the threat multiplier of the weapon.
Nice!  |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2012 : 06:15:57
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Also, while I'm at it, I like this one from 4e
Brutal: The minimum damage is higher for weapons with the brutal enchantment. Reroll any damage die that shows a one and use the new value.
There is also a Brutal 2 that would reroll 1s and 2s. Is that too much for 3.5?
Thanks, Diffan. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2012 : 06:22:10
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| Diffan, you seem to be one of our resident 4experts, while I know next to nothing. Are there any other 4e "weapon abilities" that may make for a good conversion to a 3.5 enchantment? |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2012 : 13:33:03
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| From my experience with high level campaigns in 3.X, criticals with X3 and X4 (and now X5) create ridiculous amount of damage once the damage bonus goes beyond +15, which is very easy to do. If such a magical property existed, I probably wouldn't use it. |
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Wolfhound75
Learned Scribe
USA
217 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2012 : 14:59:13
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Only semi-canon here but, Dungeons & Dragons Online had a weapon property called Vicious and another one called Seeker.
They're not exactly what you're looking for but the nomenclature might work.
MMORPG Property Description
VICIOUS:
This weapon resonates with destructive power. It generates an additional 2d6 untyped damage to the target. Because of the feedback of forces, each successful hit also generates 1d3 damage to the wielder and cannot be resisted in any way.
SEEKER:
This weapon is particularly good at causing criticals. It's design gives an inherant bonus to the wielder's confirm critical roll.
Good Hunting! |
"Firepower - if it's not working, you're not using enough." ~ Military Proverb
"If at first you do succeed, you must've rolled a natural 20!" |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2012 : 15:06:27
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Combine 'Grevious' with 'Bane' and you could have a 'Grevious Slayer' weapon, that gives x2, but only against specific creatures.
Specialized, but deadly. Good for 'monster hunter' types. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 14 Feb 2012 15:12:27 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4436 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2012 : 15:40:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Kilvan
From my experience with high level campaigns in 3.X, criticals with X3 and X4 (and now X5) create ridiculous amount of damage once the damage bonus goes beyond +15, which is very easy to do. If such a magical property existed, I probably wouldn't use it.
In an edition where weapon-users are far out paced by spellcasters at higher levels, I'm definitly of the opinion that it would drop monsters maybe a round or two faster than normal. Espically with monsters that have DR X/- or with a property you don't specifically have (like cold iron). But you could go back to weapon's requiring specific enhancement bonuses to overcome their DR such as the old 3.0 DR 10/+2 weapon.
quote:
[originally posted by Fellfire]
Also, while I'm at it, I like this one from 4e
Brutal..
Diffan, you seem to be one of our resident 4experts, while I know next to nothing. Are there any other 4e "weapon abilities" that may make for a good conversion to a 3.5 enchantment?
I really liked the Brutal property and if you wanted to convert it to 3E/PF, I don't see mechanically a problem with it. Though I wouldn't slap it on every weapon, probably exotic-bludgeoning or slashing weapons that doesn't have a crit multiplier higher than x2.
As for 4E weapon properties converted to 3E....oh yea. Sure, it throws balanace out a bit but, again, I'm a believer that a most weapon-users of 3E get really hosed at high level play so I'd be OK with it.
For example:
Blackshroud
Whenever this weapon snuffs out the life foce of an enemy, it grants you a shadowy boon. When you confirm a critical hit, you gain 2d6 temporary hit points. In addition, whenever an attack with this weapon reduces a target to 0 hit points or fewer, you gain total concealment until the end of your next turn.
Strong necromancy; CL 10th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, creator must have access to the Shadow Weave; vampiric touch and invisibility; Price +2 bonus.
Crusader's Weapon
Those who hunt undead favor this weapon for it's ability to strike at the creature's vulnerabilities. This property can only be placed on a weapon that deals bludgeoning damage. When you scroe a critical hit against undead, it deals an additional 1d10. Half the damage delt from this weapon is derived from divine power and is therefore not subject to being reduced by resistance to DR or elemental-based attacks. In additoin, when wielding a Crusader's Weapon, you gain an additional 2 turn-undead attemptss per day. For this ability to take effect, the weapon must be in your possession for 24-hours and have been dipped into holy water blessed by your deity.
Moderate evocation [good]; CL 7th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, holy smite, creator must not be evil and have a patron deity; Price +2 bonus. |
Edited by - Diffan on 14 Feb 2012 15:42:06 |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2012 : 03:31:16
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Special Weapon Property
Grim
Grim weapons are made for striking from the shadows. Provides an additional +2 to attack on Backstab maneuvers. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Edited by - Fellfire on 19 Feb 2012 03:32:22 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2012 : 09:33:00
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| Vicious, Savage, Cruel, Minty ... all good prefixes, I think. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2012 : 10:17:30
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| hah! Backstab. My 2e roots must be showing. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2012 : 14:57:25
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Felfyre
Weapon is wreathed in dark, angry flames. Any non-magic item (even metal) touched must make a savings throw or be set alight, and take 3 damage per round until disintegrated. Armor loses 1AC per round until flames are extinguished.
The fire has fiendish properties (hell-fire) and cannot be put-out with ordinary water. Holy Water must be used, or some form of radiant magic (priest spells like cure wounds, heal, turn undead, etc, or a Paladins Lay-on-Hands, etc) must be first applied to the immolated object before normal water has any effect.
A favorite amongst fiends, this magic has also been used by Drow and other evil folk of the Prime Material. Two of the components for this property must be the blood of a fiend, and the heart of a fire elemental. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 19 Feb 2012 15:07:32 |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2012 : 15:02:12
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Grim and Vicious are already described in the DMG under the specific magic weapons: Sword of Subtlety and weapon property: Vicious headings.
I agree with Kilvan that allowing increased crit multipliers can result in broken situations. I'd avoid those enhancements in my used rules. |
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2012 : 16:07:14
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This is slightly off-topic, but I use a variant rule for critical hits that produced satisfying yet reasonable results at all levels.
Crit damage = full damage + X weapon dice roll, where X = critical multiplier - 1. No confirmation rolls required
i.e.1 A rogue dagger damage is 1d4 + 4 (19-20 x2), a crit would deal 8 + 1d4 damage
i.e.2 A barbarian greataxe damage is 1d12 + 7 (20 x3), a crit would deal 19 + 2d12 damage
I've been using this system for 4 years now, and it is the one we prefer over any previous system. It greatly diminish the impact of important damage bonus (over +15) on critical with high multipliers, and also diminish the super effectiveness of large critical range weapons like scimitars or kukris.
PCs are also happier now that they can survive that frost giant's critical. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2012 : 19:02:44
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I'm going to be play-testing my own damage rules soon - I want to combine it with the to-hit roll.
You minus the 'to hit' (target) number from the roll made (plus modifiers) and that = damage taken. Haven't tried it out yet - it might be a bit over-powered (and I will have to set an 'upward limit' dependent on weapon-type).
I already give all classes max HP, and have increased the base HP for nearly everyone as well, so if I couple that with a 'damage limit by weapon', I may have a winner.
It alleviates the need to count the plus of magical weapons twice (to-hit and damage), because it becomes the same thing under my system.
Crits come off of CON - I am working on a hit-location table for that (which would incorporate 'aim' and individual pieces of armor, similar to Runequest).
If this works out, I may adapt it to 5e and submit it as an 'optional' rules for combat.
I still need to look at some of the D6 systems out there - I hate propriety dice (so I wonder why I even consider it D&D at all?) |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 20 Feb 2012 19:09:00 |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2012 : 19:18:46
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Interesting.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
You minus the 'to hit' (target) number from the roll made (plus modifiers) and that = damage taken. Haven't tried it out yet - it might be a bit over-powered (and I will probably have to set an 'upward limit' dependent on weapon-type).
That could work, but then you really need an upper threshold (by weapon type is a good idea, maybe +/- X per size category too?), especially at low level. I feel like this would take away the sense of epicness or higher level though (which is necessary if you are going down that level range), but just fine for lower levels. It could definitely prevent peak damage that currently destroys my encounters in one round.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I already give all classes max HP, and have increased the base HP for nearly everyone as well, so if I couple that with a 'damage limit by weapon', I may have a winner.
I'm not sure about that one, it is the way 4e did this, and I think it takes something away from the character. 4e had a way of doing "You want a 3rd level rogue? Here's your sheet, but points already optimized for damage output". I prefer to roll for HP, but not something as cruel as accepting 1s and 2s.
If the die result is below the average (i.e 1-4 on a d8), I consider it the lowest number of the higher half (5). This way, your character will never be broken for always rolling poorly for HP, but you will gain satisfaction for rolling high.
Sorry for going off-topic, again! |
Edited by - Kilvan on 20 Feb 2012 21:30:25 |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2012 : 13:43:43
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Diffan, I was just reading a debate over on the WotC boards, Radiant vs Holy damage. I don't know enough about it. What is your take on Radiant damage in 3.5 specifically as a Weapon Property. I've been arguing this with myself as I try to introduce an evil sun god to my game.
edit: Link. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Edited by - Fellfire on 27 Feb 2012 14:26:15 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4436 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2012 : 15:24:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
Diffan, I was just reading a debate over on the WotC boards, Radiant vs Holy damage. I don't know enough about it. What is your take on Radiant damage in 3.5 specifically as a Weapon Property. I've been arguing this with myself as I try to introduce an evil sun god to my game.
edit: Link.
I've seen this discussion come up before. The term Radiant instantly projects the image of holy, super-light, and goodly ideals into a readers head. Literally, Radiant means Bright Light and it's synonymus with "Good". But, really that's not the case. I see Radiant damage in 4E working like "Divine" damage was done in v3.5. Direct power derived from a divine power is what, to me, Radiant damage is. So deities such as Torm, Tempus, Bane, Cyric, and Lolth would all be granting radiant damaging spells because it's a portion of their power infusing the divine-worshipper's abilities.
I also look at it as the Radiant/Necrotic axis. Radiant is from the Astral Plane while Necrotic power comes from the Shadowfell (Plane of Shadow). A deity can grant either, if it's in their power/portfolio to do so, but I don't think there's any restriction on what sort of power they can grant.
So, Radiant doesn't mean Holy and Necrotic doesn't mean Unholy, just the sort of power derived from a specific place or influence. |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2012 : 22:45:15
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| I don't game in 4e so the Necrotic/Radiant axis you mention doesn't apply per se. Still, I can agree with much of what you say. I don't think that worshippers of an evil god would consider the energy derived from their patron Unholy at all. So, from a 3.5 perspective, would you take alignment entirely out of the equation? I'm not at all opposed to using a new mechanic for Radiant energy, I'm just not sure exactly what its effects should be and how to balance it with a polar opposite, call it Necrotic if it suits. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2012 : 11:37:52
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| What would be a good descriptor for "neutral" objects? The neutral version of protection from good/evil? The neutral version of holy/unholy weapons or damage? |
[/Ayrik] |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4436 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2012 : 15:09:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
I don't game in 4e so the Necrotic/Radiant axis you mention doesn't apply per se. Still, I can agree with much of what you say. I don't think that worshippers of an evil god would consider the energy derived from their patron Unholy at all. So, from a 3.5 perspective, would you take alignment entirely out of the equation? I'm not at all opposed to using a new mechanic for Radiant energy, I'm just not sure exactly what its effects should be and how to balance it with a polar opposite, call it Necrotic if it suits.
I don't think alignment would factor into a Radiant or Necrotic weapon, it's not like an alignement is associated with those Keywords. Do more evil guys use Necrotic weapons? Probably but that doesn't mean good guys can use Necrotic swords to drain the life energies of their evil enemies or evil clerics channeling radiant wrath of Bane or Gruumsh. For requirements, I'd make Radiant weapons divine-based. Meaning, if a player wants a radiant weapon, he'll need someone who can cast Divine magic. Necrotic is a bit tricker, because I see it being tapped by both Arcane and Divine magic, so perhaps the requriement of X-amount of Spells with the [Shadow] descriptor, worshipping a deity that deals with the Shadowfell (Plane of Shadow), or having the Shadow Magic Weave feat.
@ Ayrik: I really don't know. I think if adversaries are "neutral" then they get away with a lot of stuff mechanics wise. Perhaps something like Holy = vs. Evil; Unholy = vs. Good; Axiomatic = vs. Chaos; Chaotic = vs. Lawful; So.........Passionate = vs. Neutral? Neutral is being on-the-fence, not taking sides, being dispassionate. So a Passionate weapon would be invoking strong emotions in one with a Neutral alignment. Mechanically it just does the same thing as the other alignment-based weapons do, but it targets their indifference to one side or the other. |
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Wolfhound75
Learned Scribe
USA
217 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2012 : 18:23:47
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Again, only partially canon as it comes from MMORPG - D&D Online:
True Law or True Chaos: These weapons may only be wielded by characters of the appropriate alignment. Whenever the target is not of the specified alignment, they take 1d6 additional damage of the appropriate alignment type. These weapons are considered Law or Chaos aligned for purposes of bypassing damage reduction.
To my understanding, and in game function when I used to play it, these deal their damage to anyone not of the weapon's alignment. There was also a DC for UMD check to bypass the aligment restriction but I cannot recall the exact DC.
Good Hunting!
Edit: I've since added a version of this for neutral characters to my games and called it True Balance. I am considering renaming it when/if I ever come up for something similar for the Good-Evil axis. |
"Firepower - if it's not working, you're not using enough." ~ Military Proverb
"If at first you do succeed, you must've rolled a natural 20!" |
Edited by - Wolfhound75 on 28 Feb 2012 21:25:05 |
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Special Weapon Property
