| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Jan 2012 : 18:06:57
|
Hi folks! Long time no see (or talk! or do!)
Anyway, I'm running my first Realms game in faaar too long and I wanted to pick some peoples' brains on some lore questions.
First off: I'm at least starting my game in Scardale. I've been looking through all of the major sources for information on the Dalelands (1e through to 3e boxed sets/campaign settings, and Volo's Guide to the Dalelands) but I'm wondering if there's any minor resources I've missed. For example, a Dragon article or something.
Second: My game's 1e/set all the way back in 1358 DR, back when the loose council split between Cormyr, Sembia, Hillsfar, Zhentil Keep, and the Dales Council itself kept control of the dale. Anyway! So I'm going to use coinage as one of the ways to get across Realmsian flavour and for thematic signaling. Power of Faerun has listings for Cormyrean/Sembian/Zhentilar coins, but it's for 3e - platinum pieces are detailed, but not electrum. Did Cormyr etc ever mint electrum pieces, and if so, do they have a name?
edit: I am silly! "Blue eyes" for Cormyrean ep are listed in the Old Gray Box, but any other details would be aweosme.
|
Edited by - Arivia on 30 Jan 2012 18:08:29
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36912 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2012 : 19:07:45
|
Whoa! Welcome back, Arivia! It's been quite a long time since we've seen you!  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
 |
|
|
Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2012 : 19:31:22
|
Hi Arivia!
FRE2 Tantras has quite a bit on Scardale town.
Forgotten Realms Adventures p. 129: 'Electrums are commonly called blue eyes throughout the heartlands of the Realms, regardless of origin: this applies to round Cormyan eyes . . .' |
|
|
|
Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2012 : 19:46:53
|
Awesome, thanks Faraer.
Good to see you both! |
|
|
|
Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2012 : 20:05:18
|
Heh, guess we have a new year in the famous Roll of Years: 2012 DR, Return of the Scribes
Welcome back Arivia :-) |
|
|
|
Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
731 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2012 : 20:32:27
|
Good to see you reposting, hope this will be the first one of some more posts yours to read. It is always good to find one of the wells of wisdom of the site back in here.  |
"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2012 : 22:36:56
|
quote:
Originally posted by Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Heh, guess we have a new year in the famous Roll of Years: 2012 DR: Return of the Scribes
Welcome back Arivia!
Thats just filled with awesome.
Thanks for my 'smile of the day'
Now I have to go fix my face - it cracked.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2012 : 00:33:57
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Heh, guess we have a new year in the famous Roll of Years: 2012 DR: Return of the Scribes
Welcome back Arivia!
Thats just filled with awesome.
Thanks for my 'smile of the day'
Now I have to go fix my face - it cracked.
Welcome back, Arivia! |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
|
|
Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2012 : 02:17:23
|
Hello everyone new and old!
Mumadar, did someone else come back? I don't think there's enough of little old me to devote a year to all alone!
|
|
|
|
Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2012 : 08:52:40
|
| It's myself, Jakk and some others that seem to have returned to these halls in the past couple of weeks after a long hibernation. (see also this thread ) |
Edited by - Mumadar Ibn Huzal on 31 Jan 2012 08:53:44 |
|
|
|
Halidan
Senior Scribe
USA
470 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2012 : 17:36:30
|
Avia, I have also run a PBEM campaign in Scardale in roughly the same time setting as yours. I had coins from Hillsfar, Cormyr, Sembia, Zhentil Keep, Highmoon in the Dales and Old Scardale coins as well. (I felt that Lashan was arrogent enough to mint coins with his image on them) Each coin (except for Scardale's) was accepted for full value in the appropriate sector of Scardale town, and at a reduced value in some of the other areas (for example the dales sector accepted Highmoon, and Cormyr coins at full value, but most of the others at 75% and Zhentil Keep coins at 50%). Old Scardale coins were either melted down by my players, or used in the outer parts of the dales, where they were accepted at full value.
It was a large hassle for players and DM alike, but due to how slow a PBEM campaign moves, it worked (just barely). At a face-to-face game, it might slow things down an awful lot.
Just my experience with Scardale during the time of division. YMMV. |
"Over the Mountains
Of the Moon
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride,"
The shade replied,
"If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Allen Poe - 1849 |
|
|
|
Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2012 : 19:43:02
|
I'm not sure how much I agree with Highmoon minting its own coins; like the other dales, it's a really big trade crossroad with Sembia, Cormyr, and the Inner Sea states, but doesn't have a significant populace itself. I imagine the Dales as running "free with coin," where it's simple to get your hands on coins, but they will be a mix of Sembian and Cormyrean pieces traded in by merchants entering the Dales. Zhent coins less so (ugh, I really need to read *that* sidebar again, you all know the one) in the Year of the Prince after Zhentil Keep's invasion of Shadowdale.
That said, I really like your idea of Lashan having coins minted in his image, and I think I'm going to borrow that. I like how it dovetales with the narrative of Lashan himself, suggesting an overpowering egotism that has him take war resources away in order to inflate his own self-worth. Lashan's coins are likely the only ones I'm going to impart a changed value to, as they're worth not even the price of their metals outside of Scardale, and half within due to how unportable they are.
Hillsfar is also an interesting case. I like the idea of them minting their own coins in opposition to Zhentil Keep; but they're kind of a bland note in how I'm thinking of Scardale's setup. (While the Zhents, Sembians, and Cormyreans each pop with their own cultural ideals, and the Dalesmen have an appeal as the actual people who live there.) I may eliminate the Hillsfar garrison entirely just to keep things simpler.
And thinking about it, I'm probably best just disjointing the hell out of Scyllua and using her as Lashan's heir a decade and a half early. Thank you for the idea, Halidan! |
|
|
|
Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2012 : 20:50:16
|
In that case, do you know the information Ed provided here on the Scardale situation in the 1370s?
I'd include the Hillsfar faction, myself: it and Mulmaster are important parts of the balance of power in the Dragon Reach that make a much more interesting dynamic than the simplified Dales vs Zhents version that tended to show up in certain negligent hands. |
|
|
|
Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2012 : 22:47:53
|
Wow, like all of Ed's answers, that's a treasure trove. Thank you for pointing it out, Faraer. I'm especially liking the details on possible heirs, by blood or deed or coin. Conversely, the information of Dalefolk distrusting the Cormyreans is valuable. I'm dealing with a suspectingly-vehement Tyrran priest, so who knows what windmills he'll tilt at.
I'd be interested in your ideas on the balance of power in the Dragon Reach. It's entirely possible I'm making the mistake you mention, as I am a child of 3e with little experience in Hillsfar itself. My issue - and reason for detaching Hillsfar - is that my sole player (said Tyrran above) is new to the Realms, and I want to strike a fine balance between detail and understandability. I want to introduce him on good terms, minus the phantoms. Hillsfar, in this case, worries me as a group that might be extraneous to the narrative of play. On the other hand, if as you're suggesting, I'm almost stereotyping it as Cormyr/the Dales against the Zhents, then I probably need to rethink things and Hillsfar might fit better into all of that. |
Edited by - Arivia on 31 Jan 2012 22:48:26 |
|
|
|
Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2012 : 02:59:43
|
quote:
Originally posted by Mumadar Ibn Huzal
It's myself, Jakk and some others that seem to have returned to these halls in the past couple of weeks after a long hibernation. (see also this thread )
Indeed! Good to see you back, Arivia!
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Heh, guess we have a new year in the famous Roll of Years: 2012 DR: Return of the Scribes
Welcome back Arivia!
Thats just filled with awesome.
Thanks for my 'smile of the day'
Now I have to go fix my face - it cracked.
I have to agree on all counts... but I fear that my patience alone won't get me through the rest of this year; there are too many good things coming up in the fourth quarter. WotC needs to give us something to tide us over... like, say, the Cormyr lineage sometime in Q2? |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
|
|
|
Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2012 : 14:24:10
|
No, Hillsfar doesn't fit neatly into the imposed good-vs-evil schema; there's nothing wrong with wanting a simpler narrative in your campaign, but I think the original involved, nuanced struggles, waged through trade, propaganda, knife and spell in darkness, threat of force, etc. (which we should be, crossing fingers, reading more about in October) have wider potential. To name a few aspects:
-- the 'iconic' groups are just the biggest of a much larger array of mostly mercantile, neutral-aligned secret societies vieing for influence in Dales and Sembian trade
-- conflicts between Zhentarim-allied and orthodox Banites, between Zhentil Keep and Mulmaster (over the Moonsea and influence in lands south) and Hillsfar (over Yűlash and trade) did a lot to define and nuance the Zhents, e.g. Zhentil Keep theocracy vs Mulmaster's separation of Church and state
-- the Cormytes aren't seen as heroic liberators in Scardale because it knows them as expansionists concerned for their own people and their own trade; the Zhentarim aren't just evil tyrants ranged starkly against them; Dalesmen tired of both pretending to speak for them
-- uncertainties over allegiance of agents between factions (e.g. Zhents loyal to particular senior mages, priests, beholders) and organizations
-- the various powers reveal themselves over fault lines like the opening of Myth Drannor and the Scardale war
Also, the multi-sidedness of the conflict is what makes it subtle and clandestine: X can't easily move directly against Y because that would expose it to Z. Maalthiir is a good contrast to some other factions in that he's an opportunist rather than a nationalist or a religious fanatic, and he's an interesting and versatile actor for the DM because his exact aims and possible alliances are still somewhat unknown to Dalesfolk at that point. |
|
|
|
Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2012 : 20:06:35
|
Ooo, that's a lot to think about. I think it's really beneficial for me to keep that idea of Cormyr as expansionists in my mind; I'm so used to that narrative of Cormyr as the good and right nation that I've missed things otherwise. To the Dales in 1358, the occupation of Tilverton just happened, which is a warning sign like none other.
You're right that there's far more depth and potential there, and I need to think about how to translate that to play (not as in here are the rails, but breathing life into Scardale and making it sing.) Looking at some trade maps, I can see Hillsfar's interest in Scardale - if by some way they could secure the dale, they'd have a port on the Sea of Fallen Stars if they could get things there overland. It does all come back down to trade, really. |
|
|
|
Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2012 : 20:28:05
|
| You got it. There's potentially a bit of Weimar Germany or Casablanca feel. You might even have Lashan come back at some point, making better use of him than the one-fight cameo in Shadowdale: The Scouring of the Land. I want to play in your campaign now. |
|
|
|
Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2012 : 21:06:03
|
I never read that. They picked up that hook and wasted it in some terrible single fight in a completely unrelated adventure? A man with so much possibly and meaning to the Dales at large, just for that? Geez.
I like that Casablanca reference - not the actual tone of the film itself but the idea is that here is a place which is a microcosm and a focus for so much happening outside of it. And like you were saying, knife and spell in darkness is the work in kind - not that this is just some banal assortment of assassinations, but that it is the wheeling and dealing and the very small things and the plans in plans in plans that play out. It's not the razor-sharp tongues, but no blades drawn of a court; but instead an understanding that NONE of us can work even remotely overtly, or we blow this for all of us. (It bears note that the 3e FRCS describes that it wasn't until 1370 - 12 years later - that Sembia was finally ready to make its own move.)
In which case, drama hangs not on the simpler scheme of "this is a story about the sorting out of Scardale Town and its restoration to the Dales Council/to a protectorate of Cormyr/a new part of Sembia," but instead the question of what things, and schemes, and doings pass through Scardale in order to affect the Dragon Reach, the Dales, or the Moonsea powers. Everything is interconnected, and you can't just chop it up and go "Well, here's a Zhent head, a Sembian head, and a Cormyr head." Acts done here have repercussions elsewhere, and vice-versa; really the focus is on immersion in the deep and secretive layer written over the entire Inner Sea and surrounds, taking up just a strand of that, and seeing where it leads.
Wow, now I'm really excited. (I'd invite you if I could!)
|
|
|
|
Halidan
Senior Scribe
USA
470 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 15:56:53
|
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
You got it. There's potentially a bit of Weimar Germany or Casablanca feel. You might even have Lashan come back at some point, making better use of him than the one-fight cameo in Shadowdale: The Scouring of the Land. I want to play in your campaign now.
I actually ran my PBEM Scardale campaign more like a late 1950's real world Berlin. The walls have been put up (figurativly, of course, except for the one around the Zhent compound), the Dales Council has send food and necessaries to follks living in thier area and tried to get things out to other areas - usually unsuccessfully. Now the allleys are fillied with men (and women) in trenchcoats, knives in the dark, unknown bodies trown over coumpound walls, etc.
The most intesesting thing was how my players tried to pit one faction against another. The found a list of pro-Sembian names on a Zhent spy they killed. They sold it to the Cormyrians. Another time they watched the Zhent compund and saw row boats entering a sea cave about 1/2 mile up coast from the compound. Hillsfar learned about that one. They loved the cloak & dagger. Very different from my normal campaign. |
"Over the Mountains
Of the Moon
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride,"
The shade replied,
"If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Allen Poe - 1849 |
|
|
|
Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2012 : 06:09:25
|
I'm not sure if I'm going quite as starkly dark, really. Or as divided. The situation you're describing, Halidan, is a completely-broken-down sort of society, where no single power or even standard survives. That's not quite the...division between the members of Scardale's ruling counsel, where as Faraer noted, they all have to play very nicely with each other.
Furthermore, I'd argue it does many of the groups a disservice to be mean or bad to the Scardalefolk: it's easier to win over a town that likes you after all. (This also dispels the stereotypical image in my head of Zhentil Keep's forces being goons and thugs who care not; the Zhents are far smarter than that, to give them credit.) They're instead trying to win over through rebuilding and doing well, working against their enemies in the shadows but openly keeping a happy (and generous!) face.
So, I'm using this thread as a general scratch-pad of sorts and I'm going to throw out some stuff here, comment if you'd like:
-Thinking about the conversation I had with Faraer above, I want to take a page directly from Ed's playbook and focus less on the Zhentarim are THIS, the Sembians THAT. I want to look a bit more closely at creating people of good and bad natures both, figuring out their own desires and ambitions, and then weaving that together. I think I'm going to have to put a Banite in just for my Tyrran's fun, but there's no need for local Zhents to be monolithic around them; it would be far more interesting to have the people from Zhentil Keep deliver him up or otherwise go along with his deposal just to be rid of him/advance their own ambitions/influence what they think might be right for Scardale. The same applies otherwise.
-To follow on from another idea above, I've been looking at trading companies across various sources. Two look like they might have an interest in Scardale: the Six Coffers Merchant Priakos (operating from a Sembian perspective), and the Scardale Provisioner. (Additionally, but less certainly, the Sembian Red Wyvern Company and Sheathed Dagger Coster of Tasseldale, and the Trueshield Trading Priakos.) I want to add some pan-Inner Sea costers to these, some coming down from Hillsfar and Zhentil Keep but also an interest or two from lands farther away, like Aglarond. Starmantle might be a good choice; it could open them up to trade opportunities not found in the Cormyrean or Sembian shores, for example. I really like that idea of small mercantile-focused secret societies, and want to work one or two of those in. Nothing as imposing as the Iron Throne, but something with a bit of spice to get across that idea of concerns across the sea coming to rest in Scardale. |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
Scardale And A Coinage Question
