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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Jan 2012 : 00:13:43
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Rather then further clogging-up Therise's thread with my own 'grand plan', I decided to work-out what I perceive to be a perfect product list (all items I would buy). Note that I've changed-around the way some books are laid out (former sources reconfigured) - I like to see a more organized approach to both the setting and the game. I've also changed many names from ones we've grown familiar with (because of the confusion that causes), and also because I had to consider the marketing angle - how many kids are going to pick-up (and look at) something called 'Kara-Tur'? The idea is to get them to look at it, and artwork isn't always displayed (most printed books sit spine-out on a shelf). Of course, I'm old-school (pre-Kindle), so this approach may not be as important as it once was. I also tried to use names already used elsewhere, or ones that are in-line with the naming conventions of 4e.
Link to regional map some of this was based on, form the other thread.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 28 Jan 2012 00:18:16
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2012 : 00:14:13
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Forgotten Realms
Special
The Forgotten Realms Gazeteer
A LIGHT sourcebook like the GH and Golarion gazeteers. Make it thin - its only 'a primer' - like the 2e Grand Tour of the Realms, so it is AFFORDABLE to NEW fans. Also - and any WotC people are about to have fits - MAKE IT FREE!!! Thats right... free. The paper-book can sell for $12-14 in the stores (are there any left?), but the pdf should be a FREE download. This is the bait - HOOK THEM, and reel them in. You make it a free download, then millions of people read it, as opposed to thousands, and many of those folks will want to know MORE. They have to learn how to 'dangle the worm' - its just smart business. This should be part of the initial 'press release' fanfare with 5e - FREE lore! (Imagine something like that being announced on The News, and the next day we have 10 million new people who know about the Realms - its a no-brainer!) people LIKE free - if you build it, they will come. EDIT: Looks like they've done this before. (or something VERY similar - LOVE the fold-out map idea!)
Regional Sources – each should be presented as a stand-alone setting book. New players should just be able to grab one and GO!
Ancient Empires - Mulhorand, Unther, Chesenta, Murghöm, Threskel, Veldorn, some Imaskar lore
Bloodforged Kingdoms - Utter East, Ulgarth, Golden Waters region, Lost Thommar, Langdarma
Dæmon Lands - Bloodstone Lands (Vassa & Damara), Narfell, Felfens¹ , Sossal, Great Dale
Enigmatic East - Thay, Aglarond, Rashemen, Thesk, Altumbel (DM area?), Thazalhar & Songfarla
Imperial Intrigues - Calimshan, Amn, Tethyr, Erlkazar, The Arnaden, Sythillis
Kingdoms of the Fallen - Border Kingdoms, Lapaliiya, Thindol & Tashalar, Tharsult, Black Jungles
Moonsea North - Citystates & Ruins, Thar, The Ride, Pelvuria
Nether Wastes - Anauroch, The Tunlands, Goblin Marches, High Ice, Fallen Lands & Lonely Moor, Shade
Serpentine Reaches - Turmish, Citystates (Westgate, etc), Serpents Holding, Shining & Giants plains, Vilhon Reach & The Deepwash
Silvered Marches - Luruar, High Forest, northern environs & forests, Dwarven Keeps, etc
Sinister South - The Shaar, Shareach, Halruaa, Dambrath, Bandit wastes, Luiren². Great Sea Isles
Steppes of Carnage - Endless Wastes, Golden Steppes, Yellow Grass (Horse) Plains, Yaimmunahar, Fallen Raumathar & Guge, Lake of Mists & Amlorel
The Heartlands - Cormyr, Sembia, Cormanthor, The Dales, Impiltur, The Vast & Citystates
The Swordcoast - Waterdeep, Luskan, Neverwinter, Baldur's Gate, Candlekeep(!), coastal setlements
Western Vales - Susnset Vale, Delimbyr Vale (merged with Nentir Vale), High Moor, Daggerford, Greenfields, Greyvale (Backlands)
Web Enhancements: Provide a FREE 'Player's Guide' - only a dozen or so pages - containing the information players need to game in those areas (minimal info, local feats & powers, 'current clack', etc).
Beyond Faerûn
Followers of the Dragon - Kara-Tur, featuring Shou & Tu-Lung, Koryo, Ama Basin, and Tabot
Land of Fate: Al-Qadim - Zakhara, World Pillars, Akota (surface Drow), Utter South (isles)
Savage Jungles - Maztica, Lopango, S. Anchorome, and perhaps Chult (re-imagined)
Sylvan Isles - Moonshaes, Lantan, Nimbral, & Evermeet - lots of Fey/Celtic style lore and Ed's original islands detailed on the L-List
Tentative Regionals
These might be better following a less-intensive, 'skinny' format (and be designed more along the lines of MoM - adventure-heavy).
Deserts of Desolation - Quoya & Raurin, History of Imaskar, with info on ALL survivor states (Tsharoon, Bakar, Solon, etc, etc)
Mysterious Malatra - Living Malatra sub-setting, lower K-T, Dweepam³
Call of Khali - Indianesque (Vedic) lands, including the Tempat Larang, Lost kingdoms (Nog & Kadar), and Afyal & Sahu (Isle of the Necromancer-Kings), Sempadan Jungle
Nyambe: Afrikan Adventures - a Katashaka sourcebook
Samurai Sun - an Oriental islands sourcebook (OA island kingdoms, Wa & Kozakuro, brief entry on Osse)
¹ Northern Vassa, Wurrmhead Lake, Castle Perilous region & Icelake area; the strip of land that is 'newly exposed' with the receding glacier.
² I would prefer they only provide cursory information on Luiren in this product, and then do a Halflings of Luiren book, which would be an amalgam of a racial and regional book, and also include much Ed-lore from The Five Shires
³ A new group of 'jungle kingdoms to the south - I'm thinking a 'child-like empress' for an over-ruler, with weird little girls with Mystic (psionic) abilities. Seems pleasant on the surface, with lots of 'dark secrets' beneath.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 09 Feb 2012 17:25:04 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2012 : 00:14:46
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Forgotten Realms
Secrets & Socieites
Cabals & Cults - Name says it all
Dark Sails - A Pirate Campaign Sourcebook, highlighting one area, but also describe others, with history
Treacherous Travelers - Sourcebook for Mercenary companies , Trading Costers, Explorers & Guides, wanderers (gypsies)
Racial Books - Forgotten Realms specific
Council of Wyrms: The Dragonborn - Dragon lore, including details of Semphar (mild retcon), a new Draconimicon with different fluff
Feral Forces: The Wild & The Hunted - Gnolls, Grimlocks, Alaghi, Leucrotta, Centaurs, etc - their cultures and territories, basically a new Savage Species, but more focused
Giants of the Earth - Giantcraft 2.0; fix all the disparate lore, and include history, culture, and all known major settlements (not just Hartsvale!), like Fuirgar and The Cloud Kingdoms
Luiren: The Halflings - Use lots of Ed's Five Shires lore, include info on the first FR halflings who were brought over by the Dgen
Orconimicon: The Goblinoids - Cultures & Faith, lands (settlements & countries), and history
Sylvan Twilight: The Elves - Cultures & Faith, lands (settlements & countries), and history
The Great Rift: The Dwarves - Cultures & Faith, lands (settlements & countries), and history
Night Terrors series
Abominations: Living Nightmares - Aberrations; lore, lands, and history
The Book of the Dead - new undead book, including Van Richten-style lore on Vamps, Liches , Ancient Dead... everything corporeal
Hidden Threats - Shape-shifters, Dopplegangers, lycanthropes, and Yuan-ti. Put the Malaugrym here - all the races that hide amongst us. Monsters like mimics and others of this nature (piercer, Roper, ect) should be put here. More advanced trap rules can also go in here.
Spectral Shadows – a book detailing parts of the Shadowfell, and the dark beings that hail from there. Include incorporeal undead in this. The Book of the Dead and this product should be closely linked.
Threats from the Depths – Stormwrack combined with regional stuff, and all the underwater races in one place. Freshwater threats can remain in the standard MM(s)
The Underealms – New Underdark book, combined with the 2e DotU tome. In other words, focused on, but not limited to, Drow. More details
All of these should have locales, and plothooks. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 29 Jan 2012 22:34:28 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2012 : 00:15:16
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Core Books (initial Release)
A different design then most other editions…
Book 1: D&D Core rules (PHB) – Combine some of the DMG in this, so kids can buy one book and start playing. The core rules should not be split in two – that’s over-complexity right from the beginning. Include a few monsters not found elsewhere. Include just enough magic for low levels. Bare bones - add complexity with supplements.
Book 2: Monsterous Manual – Just beasties. Go very light on sentient creatures, except for a few iconics. I want to see a well-designed book with lots of great illustrations, like the 2e book of the same name. Include fluff! To keep this within the price range of most first-time buyers, keep it light (like the 3e FR monster book), and keep it inexpensive.
Book 3: Campaign Guide (Optional)– This book should be mostly DMG, with some ‘setting light’ material to help a first-time DM run a game. It should not be necessary to run a game, just helpful. Include a ‘starter town’ and a couple of adventures (that can be linked to FR, if FR is the core setting). Keep this one light as well (to go with the Core rule booklets). Include a few monsters not found elsewhere.
Those should either come out all at the same time (have deluxe ‘boxed’ set?), or released fairly close together (no more than a month!) The following can be released at any time, and the options presented should NOT be limited to just the classes the book is aimed at. They should include feats and skills, and group-specific abilities (akin to 3e’s PrCs)
Tome of Battle – Martial Feats book; not just fighters
Tome of Magic – More advance magic rules. Bring back the old names (some of which can be blamed on ‘the Ancients’, which could be some antideluvian pre-world, to keep them setting-neutral). If we need to maintain continuity, just say a lot of GH Mages took their names from ‘The Ancients’.
Skullduggery: The Book of Stealth – A book for rogues, thieves, assassins, & Bards. Include some basic rules for gambling and entertaining.
Faiths of the Fallen: A more extensive book detailing divine classes, their magic, and their faiths, keep all the ‘religions’ based on Archtypes.
Mystics: The Mindbenders New Psionics book, but let’s keep the fantasy in fantasy, and leave the Scify elsewhere. All the old ‘tele-‘ spells should go here, and not in the magic book (keep them different!)
Wild Wyrdings: Anything associated with Rangers, Druids, Wiccans (Goddess-Witches), Nature Magic & animal companions, etc… should go here. Include rules for stuff like survival and tracking.
Never-ending splats? I don’t like the whole concept of PHB2, PHB3, PHB27, etc… pick a subject-matter and have the book revolve around that. Don’t just print unimaginatively named splats because you can. EVERYTHING should have a theme. I think the regional books – if done right – should take the place of the environment-specific sources we had in 3e (Stormwrack, Frostburn, Sandstorm).
Core (Continued releases)
The Creators series
This series would be core, and the lore would date from some 'pre-world' time, up until now, and what their grand, clandestine plans for the universe entail. All four will give vague reference to the '5th Element' - the Race of Destiny. They should also tie the aberrations book to these, and include at least one playable race.
Feywild: Book of the Sidhe – The COMPLETE Fey handbook
Scales of the World Serpent – Takes the place of Serpent kingdoms (this one’s core), Suaroids & Scalykind
Lords of the Skyrealms – A book that includes rules for flying, the Aeriee creators, other flyers, and aerial hazards
Fleshdancers: The Changed – A tome detailing the Batrachi, which should include all other shape-shifting creatures (including the Changeling race)
Planer Paragons This will be the Manual of the Planes book, and include bits on the final Creator Race – Mankind. Highlight the Githyanki in this (and hint that the proto-Gith were ‘The Ancients’), as well as the Outlands (Sigil) & Astral. Maybe blend a little MtG lore into this as well
Planescape
Armies of the Abyss – Demons
Hordes of Hell - Devils
Houses of the Holy - the new Deities & Demigods book, but with emphasis on the outer planes, and discussing each being as an 'archtype' (sun god, moon goddess, war god, etc). This should focus as much on their churches and domains as it does upon the deities themselves.
Prime Evil – this is a possible future source, depending on how much fans want to learn about primordials. The magic of the elements & energies can placed in here, along with more back-story on the Elemental Maelstrom, Elemental powers and node magic
Precipice of Balance A Planes book describing some of the other ‘players’, including neutral groups like Yugoloths (Daemons) and Beastlords. This book should be synergistic with the Planer Paragons one - all the planer books should.
Possible Spin-offs
Labyrinthine Excursion: Sigil - This is tentative, depending on how well the Planscape line is taking off. If they make FR core, and then keep FR tightly bound to the cosmology (as it should be, given the basic premise of the setting), a book on Sigil, the LoP, and the factions would sell.
Sailing the Sunless Seas - A possible fix for the redundancy problem between PS and SJ. This should be a sourcebook about traveling between worlds, but primarily focused on Planesjammers - ships that are able to 'sail' through various transitive planes, like the astral, ethereal, Sea of Dreams (Feywild), Umral Mere (Shadow), River Styx, Oceanus (the Heavens), and the Phlogiston. This is a big departure from how SJ worked, but the basic premise is the same.
By directly linking the 'Forgotten' aspect of the Realms to the planes we blur the lines between FR and PS, and by doing that again with PS and SJ, we begin to unify the setting into one, massive 'meta-setting' (with FR at its core). Then they can add on 'world Books' for each of the other settings as needed (which will then also be part of FR's 'meta-setting'). Ergo, if someone wanted to run a Warforged in the Realms (a real one), and their DM allowed it, that Warforged can actually be FROM Eberron, and yet still be in the Realms. This isn't really a departure from what we had before; if anything, we are emphasizing the core flavor of the setting (we even had a Newhon ghoul and Kender in FR!)
With all of these, most of the lore should be based heavily upon the 1e-3e lore, with some 4e tidbits sprinkled in (Abolethic Sovereignty, Primordials, Eminence of Araunt, etc), in the appropriate regional/racial sources. The Abominations book I proposed above could be considered par of this as well (although I'd like it FR-specific, so we can learn about specific groups). Obviously, there will always be overlap, but I tried to keep it minimal. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 29 Jan 2012 22:17:32 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2012 : 00:16:24
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Forgotten Realms
Start Areas
Since I proposed making each regional book a stand-alone CG, we would need a 'start area' for each - a more-detailed Locale, with a few plothooks and scalable adventures :
Ancient Empires - Threskul
Bloodforged Kingdoms - Tannath (Isle in the mouth of The Golden Water)
Dæmon Lands - Bloodstone Pass
Enigmatic East - Altumbel
Imperial Intrigues - Riatavin (its centralized, and near old-edition modules)
Kingdoms of the Fallen - Tharsult
Moonsea North - Hulburg (not sure baout that one)
Nether Wastes - Gwarch (okay, I'm self-promoting on this one)
Serpentine Reaches - Hlondeth (tying it to my proposed name for this supplement)
Silvered Marches - Everlund
Sinister South - A new settlement betwen Channath Vale and The Swagdar.
Steppes of Carnage - Almorel (but detail a Tuigan settlement as well)
The Heartlands - Tricky. Mistleadale, but an adventure path the takes them to Scarsdale and across to Raven's Bluff (gives a DM some choices)
The Swordcoast - Waterdeep is the obvious choice, but it may be 'too much' for a start location. Daggerford?
Western Vales - Lodwater, unless they incorporate Nentir Vale int the Delimbyr
Several adventures in each, like some of the 2e regional books, but not as adventure-heavy as MoM. The Heartlands campaign Guide shouldn't be as well-defined with a start area, which is weird since I can see that be the first released. Thats why I say start them in Mistledale (lots of fun stuff nearby), and then give them several 'paths' to follow (explore the Ruins of Tilverton, investigate happenings in Scarsdale, join a caravan travelling to raven'sBluff and beyond, etc.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 28 Jan 2012 21:11:05 |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2012 : 01:23:59
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I don't mind if you want to put it all there, that's what my thread's for: wishlisting! 
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2012 : 01:30:35
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Yeah, but it was getting kinda long, as I collected my thoughts, and doing that is a bit rude.
Also, people tend to skip long posts, so I figured this 'little bites' approach would work better. Also, I can tweak these books as people contribute ideas, or point-out the down side of certain books.
I did it this way along the lines of the old Netbook Project threads at WotC - everything right at the top for easy reference. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 28 Jan 2012 01:51:32 |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2012 : 04:53:31
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I am liking this... WotC, if any of you are looking at this, hire this guy! (No, not me... Markustay... but you can hire me too, if you want...)  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2012 : 05:15:08
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Some good ideas on here, though I would change a couple of the names here and there. Some have already been used, and I personally dislike seeing the same book title used over and over and over again.
I'd rename the demihuman books, as well, to make them sound more exotic. Something like (off the top of my head) "Shadows in the Trees" for elves, "Children of Stone" for dwarves, and "Hole and Hearth" for halflings. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31773 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2012 : 05:24:11
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I notice you didn't include Raumathar in any of the proposed sourcebook options, Markus.
An oversight, perhaps?
[Though I'm thinking Ancient Empires would probably be the most appropriate choice.] |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2012 : 14:14:45
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he didnt have the elven empires either.. though it could fall under the elves one..... save maybe the ancient empires that have long crumble to dust
and I didnt see jhaamdath either |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2012 : 15:20:41
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I think folks may be having trouble picturing my 'vision'. Regioal books should be THICK - each one should be like its own, separate FRCG. Your group moves out of an area, you can buy the 'one next to it', and so on and so forth. The idea is to ingest the Realms in 'little Bites'. I may have to tweak things and add another book (something along the lines of the Golarion Gazeteer).
Imagine if each regional book was like Savage Frontiers - we get a sweeping history of the place, and then sections on each Realm (like the 3e regional sources). Thats what 3e got wrong, IMHO - just entries for individual countries, with almost nothing linking them all together. Present each regional sourcebook as if that was THE ONLY sourcebook you had - like separate campaign guides.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'd rename the demihuman books, as well, to make them sound more exotic. Something like (off the top of my head) "Shadows in the Trees" for elves, "Children of Stone" for dwarves, and "Hole and Hearth" for halflings.
I was starting to run out of steam at the end. 
Good suggestions.
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I notice you didn't include Raumathar in any of the proposed sourcebook options, Markus.
An oversight, perhaps?
[Though I'm thinking Ancient Empires would probably be the most appropriate choice.]
Not an oversight - I consider Raumathar 'history', and ALL of the regional books should have LOTS of history (else, how do they establish the 'any era playable' mentality?) I'll add it anyway for completeness.
Regional Books are just that - Ancient Empires will be more like Old Empires, and not at all like Lost Empires. Not that I didn't like LEoF, but I'd rather have the history of each region contained within the books responsible for each area.
Ergo, Raumathar (along with most other 'survivor states') should go in the Steppes of Carnage source. Of course, with proper cross-referencing, certain things should at least get a mention in other books. Imaskar is a tricky case - it spread into at least 5 different campaign areas, but since the main ('living') successors were Mulhorand & Unther, I felt it belonged in the Ancient Empires book (which is really a history of Imaskar, when you think about it). I would have loved to cover all the successor-states in that source, but there are over a dozen, and the steppes book needs some padding.
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
he didnt have the elven empires either.. though it could fall under the elves one..... save maybe the ancient empires that have long crumble to dust
and I didnt see jhaamdath either
See my answer to Sage above - Jhaamdath would go in the history section of the Serpentine Reaches book.
Elven history would go in the new Elven racial book - I want them to be world-specific in 5e. ALL info on a subject should be in one place this time out. 'Core' players won't need this information, unless FR becomes core in 5e.
For instance, DWARVES: of Stout & Stone would be a combination of Dwarves Deep, The CBoD, and also details of the Great Rift (amongst other locales, like Shanater and the Northern keeps). I don't like how in past editions we had to go looking through a half dozen books to find out lore about a specific race (other then human). Lets get organized this time out.
In the cases of race-specific kingdoms, like Luiren, Songfarla, and The Great Rift, only cursory info (mostly geographic) should be given in the regional books. keep the racial stuff in the racial books.
In other words, gnome-lore should be included in the Feywild book, not in Enigmatic East (with Songfarla).
However, the regional books - primarily humanocentric in nature - should include mention of prominent non-human settlements. This means very slight redundancy with the racial products, but its better for research reasons. Ideally, I would like to see past product cross-reference future ones, which is now possible in the computer (Kindle) Age.
In other words, don't just provide errata... implement it! If the world is going entirely non-paper, use that to their advantage. I'd rather have them go back and edit stuff then have to answer the same questions dozens of times... "How come in this book it says this, but in such-&-such it says something different?" That sort of thing.
I want some major cross-referencing, and I want all past mistakes (continuity errors, grammatical and spelling, etc) edited out. Not just on old products, but new ones they release. If the fanbase catches something, adjust the PDFs (is that what tablets use?) accordingly. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 28 Jan 2012 16:48:25 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11827 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2012 : 16:10:24
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I like the idea you had with Mysterious Malatra, giving a look into Nog & Kadar and the isle of Sahu.
In the tome of magic, I'd love to see a variety of rules on cooperative magic types and NOT have them all stem from the same core. For instance, Wychlaran group magic and Thayan circle magic and Halruaan cooperative magics should work differently. They may share some base common points, but they should be different for their different cultures. The Thayan circles should delve more into using the combined power of lesser apprentices to accomplish things on the battlefield as well as in the study. The Rashemi magics should delve into mixing possibly different types of magic (arcane, divine, elemental, and spiritual) to work together to attain greater effects, but requiring the casters to be of similar power levels. The Halruaan cooperative magics should not have combat effects, but possibly have greater capabilities in scrying, portal creation, warding, item creation, etc.... |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2012 : 17:15:26
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Right Sleyvas (and thanks for the kind words everyone) - thats what I was thinking with magic - they can do follow-up books with more alternative magic rules, like Eldritch Arcana, etc
The D&D core rule book (just one book!) needs to stay thin, so as not to be daunting, and yet still have two different magical paths - 'Powers' (Sorceror), and Vancian (Wizards). If they leave either out in favor of putting it in another book, they are "taking sides" right from the beginning, and they need to avoid alienating ANYBODY from the get-go.
The Wyld Wyrdings tome also leans heavily toward magic - thats the nature/fey heritage magic lore. Thats where you'll find druids, witches, place magic, spirit-packs, etc. I would also like to see that book touch upon defiling magic (from DS).
i would also like to see everything be synergistic (I think they will need to cover synergies in the DDi, since it wil grow exponentially with options). For instance, Nature (place) magic and Elemental (Arcane) magic should be should mesh well (think earth nodes).
Or conversely, since they seem to want to keep the 'tier' system in-place (which is fine), they can have the synergistic magic work off of that. I am unfamiliar with the specifics of 4e, but I think thats the way that was going as well (taking the place of PrCs).
So basically, you take a few Feats that allow you to 'tap into' nature-magic from the one sourcebook, and you take a few other Feats that allow you some Elemental powers, and then when you hit Tier 2 you can synergize and become a 'node Lord' (or some-such).
If I had the system in front of me, I'd probably be able to better figure-out what sort of books will be needed based off that. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 28 Jan 2012 17:16:08 |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2012 : 17:51:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The Forgotten Realms Gazeteer
A LIGHT sourcebook like the GH and Golarion gazeteers. Make it thin - its only 'a primer' - like the 2e Grand Tour of the Realms, so it is AFFORDABLE to NEW fans. Also - and any WotC people are about to have fits - MAKE IT FREE!!! Thats right... free. The paper-book can sell for $12-14 in the stores (are there any left?), but the pdf should be a FREE download. This is the bait - HOOK THEM, and reel them in. You make it a free download, then millions of people read it, as opposed to thousands, and many of those folks will want to know MORE. They have to learn how to 'dangle the worm' - its just smart business. This should be part of the intial 'press release' fanfare with 5e - FREE lore! (Imagine something like that being announced on The News, and the next day we have 10 million new people who know about the Realms - its a no-brainer!) peopleLIKE free - if you build it, they will come.
This wouldn't be a bad product for Free RPG Day 2013. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2012 : 17:51:37
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EDIT: Just added the following to my 'wish list' -
quote:
Possible Spin-offs
Sailing the Sunless Seas - A possible fix for the redundancy problem between PS and SJ. This should be a sourcebook about traveling between worlds, but primarily focused on Planesjammers - ships that are able to 'sail' through various transitive planes, like the astral, ethereal, Sea of Dreams (Feywild), Umral Mere (Shadow), River Styx, Oceanus (the Heavens), and the Phlogiston. This is a big departure from how SJ worked, but the basic premise is the same.
By directly linking the 'Forgotten' aspect of the Realms to the planes we blur the lines between FR and PS, and by doing that again with PS and SJ, we begin to unify the setting into one, massive 'meta-setting' (with FR at its core). Then they can add on 'world Books' for each of the other settings as needed (which will then also be part of FR's 'meta-setting'). Ergo, if someone wanted to run a Warforged in the Realms (a real one), and their DM allowed it, that Warforged can actually be FROM Eberron, and yet still be in the Realms. This isn't really a departure from what we had before; if anything, we are emphasizing the core flavor of the setting (we even had a Newhon ghoul and Kender in FR!)
My idea is to make FR core, and then build the entire infra-structure of the D&D universe outward from there. IMHO, I think this will actually be able to do what they attempted in 4e - to bridge the gap between the settings (which is another reason why I want the regional books presented like separate CG's - I want to establish that pattern early-on, so that a DL or DS CG will just feel like a further extension of the FR meta-setting). The 'non-setting' approach failed only because it wasn't grounded - there was no 'core'.
FR was already set-up like this with OA/K-T, Arabian Adventures (Al-Qadim), a meso-American clone (Maztica), The Hordelands, Malatra - we are just running with a pattern established way back in 1e. FR has always been a muti-setting setting, so lets just take that to whole 'nother level.
And the 'tier system' works perfectly for this. First you adventure on Toril; then you start Planeswalking, and then you start adventuring in the Outer planes - its all modular and tier-based. The setting 'grows' with the needs of its players.
quote:
Originally posted by Hawkins
This wouldn't be a bad product for Free RPG Day 2013.
Spectacular idea!
But only if they are releasing 5e soon after - the timing is critical; 'buzz' only lasts so long. They do this - give away a free FR Gazeteer - and they will knock one out of the park. A few hard-copies for distributors, and a pdf online. You can't buy that kind of publicity (actually you can... but indirectly). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 28 Jan 2012 19:06:16 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11827 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2012 : 20:22:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Right Sleyvas (and thanks for the kind words everyone) - thats what I was thinking with magic - they can do follow-up books with more alternative magic rules, like Eldritch Arcana, etc
The D&D core rule book (just one book!) needs to stay thin, so as not to be daunting, and yet still have two different magical paths - 'Powers' (Sorceror), and Vancian (Wizards). If they leave either out in favor of putting it in another book, they are "taking sides" right from the beginning, and they need to avoid alienating ANYBODY from the get-go.
The Wyld Wyrdings tome also leans heavily toward magic - thats the nature/fey heritage magic lore. Thats where you'll find druids, witches, place magic, spirit-packs, etc. I would also like to see that book touch upon defiling magic (from DS).
i would also like to see everything be synergistic (I think they will need to cover synergies in the DDi, since it wil grow exponentially with options). For instance, Nature (place) magic and Elemental (Arcane) magic should be should mesh well (think earth nodes).
Or conversely, since they seem to want to keep the 'tier' system in-place (which is fine), they can have the synergistic magic work off of that. I am unfamiliar with the specifics of 4e, but I think thats the way that was going as well (taking the place of PrCs).
So basically, you take a few Feats that allow you to 'tap into' nature-magic from the one sourcebook, and you take a few other Feats that allow you some Elemental powers, and then when you hit Tier 2 you can synergize and become a 'node Lord' (or some-such).
If I had the system in front of me, I'd probably be able to better figure-out what sort of books will be needed based off that.
Just coming to mind as well, when it comes to spellcasting, they could come up with some kind of system for working out a "spellthief" who requires an outside source to acquire their magic. Perhaps some spellthieves work like the classic one who just steals spells, maybe some work like a sha'ir and need a genie, maybe some need a fey instead of a genie, maybe some need an imp, maybe some are like witches and need a natural animal (or the animal is a disguise for the former types). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2012 : 20:27:31
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Malatra is supposed to parallel south east asia not India, is it not?
Like Khmer, Siam, Hanoi, etc.
Personally I would prefer sourcebooks more specific in nature that would be like "Baldur's Gate", "Bezantur", "Zhentil Keep" etc. rather than large regions. |
Edited by - MrHedgehog on 28 Jan 2012 20:30:00 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2012 : 21:03:10
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That would be a bit much.
However, nothing is to say they can't develop areas further through DDi articles, if certain areas warrant that kind of attention (popularity). Also, we still have tons of old lore that is highly specific for certain places (do we need another Zhentil Keep product?) I don't want them hammering away at the same old places - that is what forced them to give us 4e, and why we kept getting 'more of the same', while other interesting regions got no love. We need to do things different this time out (IMHO).
EDIT: Just modified the book list again - shuffled some stuff around. By giving the lower Hordelands its own book, I had enough room to put the Lake of Mists back in the Steppes book. I separated the two lower K-T regions, because after much thought it was the right thing to do. I had it that way originally, and then thought there wouldn't be enough interest, but I spread it way to thin (that region was enormous!). Hopefully with the 'khali' thing it will be the hook we need (we could just call it Dark Earth Mother, but I'm not sure if that will have the same draw). I hate leaving Malatra on its own (it was a failed setting before), so I added some of my HB material to pad it out.
I am going to add this to the beginning of the thread. Since I proposed making each regional book a stand-alone CG, we would need a 'start area' for each - a more-detailed Locale, with a few plothooks and scalable adventures:
Start Areas
Ancient Empires - Threskul
Bloodforged Kingdoms - Tannath (Isle in the mouth of The Golden Water)
Dæmon Lands - Bloodstone Pass
Enigmatic East - Altumbel(?)
Imperial Intrigues - Riatavin (its centralized, and near old-edition modules)
Kingdoms of the Fallen - Tharsult
Moonsea North - Hulburg (not sure about that one)
Nether Wastes - Gwarch (okay, I'm self-promoting on this one)
Serpentine Reaches - Hlondeth (tying it to my proposed name for this supplement)
Silvered Marches - Everlund
Sinister South - A new settlement betwen Channath Vale and The Swagdar.
Steppes of Carnage - Almorel (but detail a Tuigan settlement as well)
The Heartlands - Tricky. Mistledale, but an adventure path the takes them to Scarsdale and across to Raven's Bluff (gives a DM some choices)
The Swordcoast - Waterdeep is the obvious choice, but it may be 'too much' for a start location. Daggerford?
Western Vales - Lodwater, unless they incorporate Nentir Vale int the Delimbyr
Several adventures in each, like some of the 2e regional books, but not as adventure-heavy as MoM. The Heartlands campaign Guide shouldn't be as well-defined with a start area, which is weird since I can see that be the first released. Thats why I say start them in Mistledale (lots of fun stuff nearby), and then give them several 'paths' to follow (explore the Ruins of Tilverton, investigate happenings in Scarsdale, join a caravan travelling to raven'sBluff and beyond, etc.
Keep EACH Region supported, with articles in Dungeon. I would suggest they assign someone in-charge of each region, similar to what they did with the RPGA guys, just to keep track of things. In fact, they can use those same people and pay them for their articles/adventures. At first, they should have one Dragon article and one Dungeon adventure per month after the initial release of any Regional Campaign Guide (RCG's), and then adjust from there (dependent upon popularity).
For the Heartlands, I would suggest Krash or Brian Cortijo to work on themonthly regional material (Cormyr & Impiltur), with lots of input from Ed (although i think he will be VERY busy with everything... at least, i hope so). 
Give everyone ther own sandbox - have Rich Baker write Moonsea North & Vassa articles, Steven Schend develop the Lands of Intrigue, ect, ect - put experts on each region, and let them flourish. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 28 Jan 2012 21:46:13 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2012 : 22:07:03
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Just coming to mind as well, when it comes to spellcasting, they could come up with some kind of system for working out a "spellthief" who requires an outside source to acquire their magic. Perhaps some spellthieves work like the classic one who just steals spells, maybe some work like a sha'ir and need a genie, maybe some need a fey instead of a genie, maybe some need an imp, maybe some are like witches and need a natural animal (or the animal is a disguise for the former types).
Summoners
In C&S, they called them 'Hex masters' who could also use Black magic (curses). others call them demonologists, etc... we could even just go with Sha'ir (since thats the class all of tese would be based off of).
Witch doctors would have 'ancestral spirits', Shaman would have 'spirit guides', Feycallers would make feypacts, Sha'ir would truck with Dgen, etc. Witches could be muti-taskers, with 'familiars' from all the other casters (an extra-planer being bound in animal form). This would basically be a very limited form of Divine Magic, except much more personal (cultists would use this form of magic).
D&D already went in another direction with warlocks, which I would have liked if the didn't use the name. Maybe 5e can somehow fix the disparity - have the warlock get its powers from somewhere else (evil itself? Perhaps just some fluff-tweaks and leave the abilities of the class prety-much the same.
Hmmmm... if they link it to defiling (which I wanted in the same tome anyway), they could be defiling their soul, rather then the world around them. it could work. maybe I should rename it -
Wyld Wyrdings: Defilers & Preservers
It would be a whole new spin (I think) with D&D - the book would be all about 'the Balance' and maintaining it, and would tie heavily in with a fey sourcebook.
Hmmm... if we just call what amounts to The Weave outside of Realmspace The Source (and say The Weave is the Toril-specific branch of that), then we can play on the dichotomy of the Weave/shadoweave and defilers/preservers (adding life/light, and taking away life/light).
I really think Ed needs to work on this one - I'm starting to crack FR's outer shell, revealing the gooey secrets within. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 28 Jan 2012 22:27:12 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2012 : 22:30:24
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Just added a Deities & Demigods style book, called Houses of the Holy - a companion to the setting specific one, but with more planer info, like On Hallowed Ground.
Tweaked a few other things - I wanted (most) of the racial books to have the same naming convention.
I suppose there should be a Tiefling one, but I want to think of a good way to present that. Maybe put them in the cultist book?
Infernal Intimacies just doesn't sound like something Hasbro would publish. 
Infernal Infiltrations? That might work, and could also focus on different (looking?) groups of fiend-born, their agendas, problems they face, etc. Any thoughts? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 29 Jan 2012 22:32:03 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2012 : 16:09:49
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Added a new 'Web Enhancement' entry under Regionals -
Web Enhancements: Provide a FREE 'Player's Guide' - only a dozen or so pages - containing the information players need to game in those areas (minimal info, local feats & powers, 'current clack', etc).
This was inspired by George Krashos's own desires in Erik's thread. It will go a long way in getting new players to 'be into' the Forgotten Realms (which is the point, isn't it? Pay-only content has no way of generating that).
I remember from my old-school gaming sessions, players love 'handouts'. A DM who prints up these WE's for his players to give out on the first night will already have scored big points.
They need to use the internet intelligently - the potential is enormous. For instance, I play a lot of FB games, and every so often we get a building to build in one of them (like Cityville) which is a RW company's way of advertising in-game. Its bloody brilliant! McDonalds has done it (Twice!), Best Buy, Farmers Insurance, etc..
Make a deal with Zynga to place such a building - call it the "Local Game Store", and have it drop stuff like miniatures, gaming Guides, weird dice, etc (I think there are 5 per collection). Then when the quest is completed, you get a cool Warrior statue or some-such. Make sure the Dungeons & Dragons logo is displayed prominently, so folks have to look at it every day. Thats brilliant marketing strategy - you are already directly accessing a gaming community.
Too bad Heroes of Neverwinter isn't Zynga - they have a lot of cross-game quests to get kewl stuff (and gets people to play the other game). Thats how you use the internet - NOT with proprietary content - you hook them with freebies and then reel them in.
To get back to my point - if you give-out these free 'players pamphlets', most of the people who are interested will then buy the Regional splat. Those who aren't made curious by the WE's will be the same people who would have never bought those splats anyway. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 09 Feb 2012 16:12:17 |
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ZeshinX
Learned Scribe
Canada
210 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2012 : 16:25:39
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Fantastic lineup MT. Truly. I wouldn't buy ALL, but certainly a wide swath of them (some areas just don't interest me enough).
As a humble suggestion (and only that!), I would tweak your recommended Kara Tur sourcebook to include Koryo and Kozakura (or Wa), in addition to those already listed for it. I'd like some lore-heavy info on those areas more than I would like adventure-heavy. |
"...because despite the best advice of those who know what they are talking about, other people insist on doing the most massively stupid things."
-Galen, technomage |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2012 : 17:16:28
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Which is why I suggest just a very bare 'glimpse' of Wa & Kozakura in the K-T book, so they could have their own 'Islands' splat later.
They are just too cool to be included in an 'all-inclusive' K-T book - that setting is freakin' HUGE!
I want a highly detailed K-T book, which should include Shou, Tu, and Koryo. There was so much in the original product, all we got were 'snapshots' of each area.
Ideally, each province should get its own book, but I truly doubt there would be enough interest in such a line of products (unless they did it REALLY well, like how Rokugan {Lot5R} was done). Ergo, just focus on the really interesting bits, provide lots of detail, and only cover the three major (continental) nations.
Sparse entries on the surrounding regions - the island nations and Malatra - will generate further interest in those areas, and the decision to publish future products can be made at that time. K-T material could be useable by people running an FR campaign, but that other stuff would only be (very) useful to folks running an OA campaign. This is why I have them under 'tentative regionals' - the Samurai Sun book.
I am still working off my concept of a 'meta-setting' for 5e. All other settings - whether physically on Toril or not - should be linked to the Forgotten Realms in some way (turn FR into 2e's PS & SJ). Those 'other settings' can then be added to as needed (or as interest demands). This would include Oerth, Eberron, Krynn, etc - make them all 'campaign areas' for the meta-setting.
Its The Forgotten Realms, dammit - lets build upon Ed's premise. Let the Realms BE D&D, as it was always meant to be. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 09 Feb 2012 17:27:03 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2012 : 18:11:52
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I started posting this in Therise's thread, and realized I was going way off-topic, and its much better suited here:
Also, the direction they took with the miniatures line was abysmal - produce large army packages for little money, and you appeal to a much wider cross-section of consumer. Eight random lumps of ugly plastic for $15 is not the way to bring D&D into 'the mainstream'. In that regard, the SHOULD follow the Heroscape model - even if kids don't play the game, they can have fun with all those cool minis (which I feel were superior to the D&D line, on average). Give kids an 'encounter starter-set' for around $30, with about 30 minis in the box, and watch how many fly off the shelves around X-Mas time. With the minis, they should be thinking QUANTITY for profits - a niche game won't produce the sales they want, and price their minis right out of the market. Go generic, and go broad for those, with 'battle packs' showing classic FR (and other setting) scenes, and you have yourself a line of toys that will be successful, whether 5e is or not.
The initial package should come with a LOT (so parents think they are getting their money's worth), with a mix of 12-15 archtype heroes, and 12-15 monsters (mostly Orcs.. maybe all Orcs with a few redundant poses would be okay - they are the classic 'bad guys', after all). Include a battle-map, and some VERY basic rules (a'la Heroscape), but also give them a little booklet (those mini-catalogs that come with most toys these days) that shows the rest of the wonderful (eye-candy) 'D&D product line'.
They may want to do a 'Walmart exclusive' (they've done this with heroscape) with a special 'Drizzt' figure, that you can see through a little clear-plastic window on the box (kids eat that crap up... along with 40-yr-old geeks who still live with their moms...). that figure should be a special pose, limited edition, ONLY available in that initial release.
Then come out with both 'booster packs' (a box of skeletons, a box of goblins, a box of lizardmen, etc) - make sure there is a decent amount in EACH box (12-15 - these things only cost about a penny apiece to make over in China!), and also 'Encounters' - packages with specific miniatures to recreate classic (novel) battle-scenes (like Drizzt vs Shimmergloom), with a bit of terrain (something like what they used to do with the micro-machines SW playsets), a few iconic characters, and some iconic villains (and a battlemat).
As for a logo; something like this -
Dungeons & Dragons compatible
Fantasy Playsets
Make the D&D logo (the actual logo, not how I have it above) secondary and smaller to "Fantasy Play Set", to avoid folks thinking the kid needs D&D to play with the 'kewl toys'. Make sure you put some marketing crap on the box, like "everything you need to have your own Fantasy battle!" right on the front. More info - including how it can be used with D&D - should be on the back (no-one usually reads that crap until they get home).
In fact, I would say ideally they should merge the figure-line with heroscape (maybe even use those rules as very primitive type of D&D), and re-release it that way. Then instead the box could have -
Heroscape presents
Fantasy Playsets
And put the D&D compatible stuff on the back (after all, anyone who is playing 5e will find out right away about the miniatures line, which shouldn't be mandatory, and therefor can be marketed under another name). Let the well-made (and better deal) Heroscape minis become the D&D miniatures line, and you kill multiple birds with one stone. As kids get older, they will want to find out more about the rules that go with their 'kewl toys' - Hasbro will be producing this generation's version of 'army men'.
If 5e decides to branch into modern, Scify, and Apocalyptic (Gamma World) rules, then the other Heroscape minis can be introduced into the line as well. It all depends on how this thing takes off (and the minis should be used to help re-invigorate the D&D IP, not be just an expensive option for some D&D gamers). They could even developed a Steampunk line if it gets really popular (something that is still niche, but on the rise with shows like Warehouse 13 and Torchwood). If it gets REALLY huge, they may even want to license other IPs (Warcraft, Middle Earth, etc) for play-sets (I used my SW Wampa mini in one of my D&D games, and it was great).
Kids love toys - get them hooked early, and you'll have D&D gamers for life. Don't have the rules lead to the minis - make it work the other way around, and I can guarantee you'd have the 'next big thing'. This should be obvious to a toy-giant like Hasbro.
If they could get a cartoon connected to this, it has unlimited potential - even if the cartoon is just snippets in commercials (several of toy-lines already have this, like Bionicle & Lego - take a lesson from them).
Imagine an ad-toon of a dragon rising up behind a dwarf (Bruenor), who is completely unaware, and then a dark Elf (Drizzt) leaping in and yelling, "watch out!", as his barbarian-buddy, archer-grrl, and halfling companions rush-in as well. Then cut to kids playing with the toys... its PURE WIN. They won't be able to produce these things fast enough during the holiday season.
Don't try to use D&D to sell products - use products (and iconic characters) to sell D&D. Hasbro/WotC need to work from a starting point they are good at, and known for. In D&D, there is always a 'treasure' at the end of every adventure - let D&D (and FR) be the prize at the end. Lead them to it, using toys, cartoons, novels, comics, etc. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3740 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2012 : 23:40:10
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-While I doubt they'd scrap miniatures themselves, we'd kind of need to see the 5e rules to figure out how miniatures are gonna work.
-As a matter of preference, I'd prefer large packages of ugly plastic things for a low cost. I never used miniatures, but I have an urge to now; If I had an actual playing group, and if miniatures were cheaper, I'd invest. If such things as you're suggesting existed, I'd certainly be more apt to buy them, regardless. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerûn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerûn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2012 : 04:50:18
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I think one problem with the D&D minis was forcing people to buy them blind. Yeah, it works great for CCGs -- but if you're wanting to use the minis to supplement your D&D sessions, having to buy 83 packages to get that one mini you really need for the next session really sucks.
And it's prolly a minor quibble, but I didn't like how in the waning days of 3.x, the default assumption seemed to be that you were using the minis to play. I think minis can be very useful during a gaming session, but they should be purely optional. Game material in particular should not be written with the assumption that you're using not just minis, but specifically D&D minis. |
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2012 : 05:53:51
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I find minis are largely useless. The figs represent marching order or formation, a couple of my players take great pride in somehow finding/modifying figs to exactly suit their characters.
Unless it's time to run a megabattle. The figs indicate who's who, where they stand and their facing, firing arcs, lines of sight, etc, it's very handy for at-a-glance description and resolution of events. Some D&D mini rule versions are quite streamlined and really speed up these large/complex combats, while other D&D mini rule versions can get more bogged down than old Battletech and are best avoided. I'll admit that I'm not one of those hobby-model guys who ever constructs elaborate 3D miniature battlescapes filled with lovingly handpainted little armies. Hex/square grids overlayed onto drawn map outlines (sometimes using books or other props to indicate relative elevations) all suffice for my group - as do the lego, dice, coins, chips, and tokens which populate them. Cheap little plastic stands supporting vertical unit representations were good enough for ancient BattleTech; no need to buy into the wargaming crowd (or the corporate one) convincing you that costly little tin soldiers, pewter/lead figs, or plastic minis are required. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 02 Apr 2012 06:11:22 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3740 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2012 : 06:12:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And it's prolly a minor quibble, but I didn't like how in the waning days of 3.x, the default assumption seemed to be that you were using the minis to play. I think minis can be very useful during a gaming session, but they should be purely optional. Game material in particular should not be written with the assumption that you're using not just minis, but specifically D&D minis.
-Did they? I never really use too many books outside of the core three, picking through PrCs or feats or whatever from other books, but I never noticed that. What was it, a lot of stuff tied to movement or whatever? |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerûn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerûn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 02 Apr 2012 06:12:20 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2012 : 10:55:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And it's prolly a minor quibble, but I didn't like how in the waning days of 3.x, the default assumption seemed to be that you were using the minis to play. I think minis can be very useful during a gaming session, but they should be purely optional. Game material in particular should not be written with the assumption that you're using not just minis, but specifically D&D minis.
-Did they? I never really use too many books outside of the core three, picking through PrCs or feats or whatever from other books, but I never noticed that. What was it, a lot of stuff tied to movement or whatever?
They started doing that "encounter format" crap, with maps for minis and a list of exactly what minis to use, and even listed minis in the "what you need to use this book" section. And this wasn't core stuff, this was Realms books. Some of the online articles did the same thing, with focusing on how to use minis to run a particular encounter. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31773 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2012 : 15:46:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And it's prolly a minor quibble, but I didn't like how in the waning days of 3.x, the default assumption seemed to be that you were using the minis to play. I think minis can be very useful during a gaming session, but they should be purely optional. Game material in particular should not be written with the assumption that you're using not just minis, but specifically D&D minis.
-Did they? I never really use too many books outside of the core three, picking through PrCs or feats or whatever from other books, but I never noticed that. What was it, a lot of stuff tied to movement or whatever?
They started doing that "encounter format" crap, with maps for minis and a list of exactly what minis to use, and even listed minis in the "what you need to use this book" section. And this wasn't core stuff, this was Realms books. Some of the online articles did the same thing, with focusing on how to use minis to run a particular encounter.
The Realms books of particular note were those comprising the 3e mega-adventure module trilogy -- Shadowdale, Cormyr, and Anauroch -- which each included those special ENCOUNTER sections in every tome. |
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