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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Jan 2012 : 15:31:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by arry
I will try and answer your question about ‘grafting new stuff wholesale’ Sage. The new material was put in at the expense of old lore. Old lore was removed, invalidated or retconned to accommodate the new lore. This, to me, made the new lore feel very intrusive and alien.
Could you specify what lore was removed ?
That is the very question at the heart of this thread: What lore was removed or doesn't line up with new lore?
I'm not saying there isn't any--obviously there is--but one can't very well just come in and complain of "new lore" without providing examples that we can discuss. That's the point of this forum.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31798 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2012 : 15:40:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Tieflings were a player race in 2E Planescape. But in the Realms these characters would be viewed as fiends, cambions, or some kind of "tainted" evil unfortunates best avoided. A sizeable population of tieflings in 2E Realms would not be realistic, aside perhaps near Ascalhorn and other places with gates and portals to the lower planes.
I don't recall any genasi in 2E. Although some retro-lore has placed a civilization of giants and genasi somewhere East of Netheril, near the Moonsea, the Vast, or the Cold Lands. Genasi would fit quite well in the Zakhara and even in the Oriental Adventures settings, they might fit well in places like Calimshan and Halruaa.
I wouldn't expect to find sizable populations anywhere... More uncommon than rare in some areas, yes, but that's it. I prefer the almost-but-not-quite normal appearance of genasi and tieflings as described in 2E and 3E, as well.
I just wanted to point out that genasi and tieflings were not developed for 4E, though the physical appearance of both races changed then, and they became more prominent in 4E.
Races of Faerûn notes that most of the tieflings found in Faerûn are derived from bloodlines that have originated in both Mulhorand and Thay.
Additionally, see the "Races and Cultures" section of the chapter on Thay in the Unapproachable East tome as well, for more on tieflings active in the land of the Red Wizards.
There's said to be tieflings existing in fair numbers in Impiltur, Damara, the Great Dale, and Thesk. Each region has its own slightly different view on them. |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2012 : 15:44:41
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Races of Faerûn notes that most of the tieflings found in Faerûn are derived from bloodlines that have originated in both Mulhorand and Thay.
Additionally, see the "Races and Cultures" section of the chapter on Thay in the Unapproachable East tome as well, for more on tieflings active in the land of the Red Wizards.
There's said to be tieflings existing in fair numbers in Impiltur, Damara, the Great Dale, and Thesk. Each region has its own slightly different view on them.
Pre-4E, genasi were all pretty much unique. They were implied, if not outright stated, to be partly human.
With 4E, they don't have that "part human" feeling. They are said to be either a magically created race, long ago, or they arose out of the elemental chaos.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36844 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2012 : 16:01:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Also, I'm flattered that many of you enjoyed my version of how Warforged came to be in the Realms. There are also other canon examples of how they came to be such as early Imaskari blood golems or even wizard experiments that hace been altered somehow.
I've got to finish writing up my own versions, at some point... I've got three different versions of Realms-based warforged I've come up with. None of mine exist in numbers larger than a couple dozen. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4454 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2012 : 16:17:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Also, I'm flattered that many of you enjoyed my version of how Warforged came to be in the Realms. There are also other canon examples of how they came to be such as early Imaskari blood golems or even wizard experiments that hace been altered somehow.
I've got to finish writing up my own versions, at some point... I've got three different versions of Realms-based warforged I've come up with. None of mine exist in numbers larger than a couple dozen.
Well I'll expect those reports on my desk Monday morning . Joking aside, I think it's plausable that the lore isn't so defined that it doesn't have room for newer aspects of D&D/FR materials to invalidate it. It's the idea of fitting these aspects into existing lore which makes it FUN, something we can all get behind, yes?
quote:
Originally posted by Therise
Pre-4E, genasi were all pretty much unique. They were implied, if not outright stated, to be partly human.
With 4E, they don't have that "part human" feeling. They are said to be either a magically created race, long ago, or they arose out of the elemental chaos.
Except that it's not always the case. Genasi, for example, can come from the elemental chaos or (as their description says in 4E) have heritage that goes back to the Elemental Chaos (elemental planes). I don't think any of the new descriptions or lore invalidates older, just another way of saying how they've grown in such numbers since the Spellplague happened. Again, my air-genasi Warlord looks pretty human, having a human monther and a father of Genie. |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2012 : 16:19:54
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| Was any rationale ever given for making newly introduced races or monsters common and prevalent? Other than sheer show-of-novelty it's hard to think of one, and I agree that a lot of needless animosity was caused by making such a fuss of additions that would otherwise have been widely appreciated or unremarked on. Look at how Ed loves reading monster books and dropping references to new creatures (but rare ones!) into his writing. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36844 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2012 : 18:16:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Except that it's not always the case. Genasi, for example, can come from the elemental chaos or (as their description says in 4E) have heritage that goes back to the Elemental Chaos (elemental planes). I don't think any of the new descriptions or lore invalidates older, just another way of saying how they've grown in such numbers since the Spellplague happened. Again, my air-genasi Warlord looks pretty human, having a human monther and a father of Genie.
But the appearances did change... In 2E and 3E, genasi could generally pass as human, save for perhaps an odd skintone or hair color. Other details could escape notice quite readily, like the smell of smoke around a fire genasi. The 4E look, with the glowing lines and such, doesn't even come close to the prior appearances. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2012 : 18:26:38
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| Tieflings, too, changed rather drastically in appearance. 2E Planescape described them as always being predominantly human, but with something fiendish, something other in them; horns, a forked tongue, a tail, cloven hooves, vestigial "bat" wings, sulphurous stench, even just an intangible yet palpable aura of menacing fiendish evil - each one was something of a unique mutant. Tieflings could have any sort of fiendish bloodline, individuals even aligned themselves in the Blood War. 4E tieflings are an actual population, they share uniform traits, they breed true, and their ancestry all stems back to some particular incident involving baatezu. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2012 : 18:39:22
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Other than a 4e FRCS, have these sizeable communities of Tieflings, Genasi, Warforged etc. been published elsewhere, i.e. more firmly enshrining these 'sizeable' communities in Realms Lore? If not, than even with the reference in the 4e FRCS, it could relatively easily be retconned/toned down in newer products. It wouldn't be the first time in the long history of FR that 'subtle' corrections were made, often referencing to 'errors' made by the scribes of said tomes. (implying a Realms personality wrote the -incorrect- text and across the multiverse handed it to WotC who printed it for our use).
Side note, the artwork of a newer version does not have to redefine the appearance, it just depicts one individual out of a diverse population. I never took the artwork in 3e as 'set in stone' for the entire race, and even the descriptions allow for enough freedom... |
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arry
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
317 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2012 : 18:55:05
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| OK, I’ll do my best. While Unther and Chessenta weren’t my favourite places I was dismayed by their sudden and violent removal. I know that technically that doesn’t invalidate the former lore about them, perhaps I chose the wrong word. Now however, I can’t use any ideas or plot hooks about them given in former lore, because the countries that I wanted to use those in are gone. Similarly for Lantan. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4454 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2012 : 18:57:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Except that it's not always the case. Genasi, for example, can come from the elemental chaos or (as their description says in 4E) have heritage that goes back to the Elemental Chaos (elemental planes). I don't think any of the new descriptions or lore invalidates older, just another way of saying how they've grown in such numbers since the Spellplague happened. Again, my air-genasi Warlord looks pretty human, having a human monther and a father of Genie.
But the appearances did change... In 2E and 3E, genasi could generally pass as human, save for perhaps an odd skintone or hair color. Other details could escape notice quite readily, like the smell of smoke around a fire genasi. The 4E look, with the glowing lines and such, doesn't even come close to the prior appearances.
I'm going to echo Mumadar's notion of the description not including the whole race's decription. When someone describes a person of a specific race, they often describe the one that looks more out-landish. In the case of Tieflings, take one that looks like a 4E one (head horns, tail, scarlet skin, sharp fangs) and one from 2e/3E (small horns, a brimstone smell, light-ish red skin but very human too) and then ask to describe what the race looks like. I think the natural selection is to describe one that looks more fantastic because that sticks in someone's mind a lot longer than one that just has a few characteristics.
Same is applied to Gensai, one that looks more human is more easily accepted and not easily definable as one that has lines of power running along their skin and crystalline hair.
I feel BOTH descriptions can be included with the race and not serve to change the lore of the Race nor that of the setting. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4454 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2012 : 19:14:43
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quote:
Originally posted by arry
OK, I’ll do my best. While Unther and Chessenta weren’t my favourite places I was dismayed by their sudden and violent removal. I know that technically that doesn’t invalidate the former lore about them, perhaps I chose the wrong word. Now however, I can’t use any ideas or plot hooks about them given in former lore, because the countries that I wanted to use those in are gone. Similarly for Lantan.
Very shortly I'm going to create a very long piece on the survival of Lantan via the Atlantis-route. A submerged city adapted to aquatic life through magic and technology. Though I admit that I'll need help in constructing what I want and need a heavy dose of Lore to supplement these ideas. Anyone who's interested, your welcome to PM me any thoughts or suggestions on an underwater approach I intend for the country. |
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Tyrant
Senior Scribe
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2012 : 19:26:51
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Re: Genasi appearance in older editions: In the game Neverwinter Nights 2, set in the Realms during 3.5, the Genasi are noticeably planar races. The fire Genasi has fire for hair, and so on. I don't think it is a huge jump. Also, all one really has to say is that the ones that appear different are the newcomers and not the ones that have been here for a while (who are the more human looking ones).
quote:
Originally posted by Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Other than a 4e FRCS, have these sizeable communities of Tieflings, Genasi, Warforged etc. been published elsewhere, i.e. more firmly enshrining these 'sizeable' communities in Realms Lore?
The Genasi were focused on in Sandstorm and were featured in the first 3 books of the Brotherhood of the Griffon. Those three also heavily featured the Dragonborn. The Dragonborn have also featured in Brimstone Angels, which itself focused quite a bit on the Tieflings and gives some info as to their overall origins. That book does make it clear that Tieflings do not exist in large numbers except in a very few places. The Dragonborn also seem to concentrate in one area and the Genasi are primarily found in Calimshan. I got the impression that the Genasi do not exist in huge numbers either.
Did I miss somewhere that says there are Warforged?
quote:
Originally posted by arry
OK, I’ll do my best. While Unther and Chessenta weren’t my favourite places I was dismayed by their sudden and violent removal. I know that technically that doesn’t invalidate the former lore about them, perhaps I chose the wrong word. Now however, I can’t use any ideas or plot hooks about them given in former lore, because the countries that I wanted to use those in are gone. Similarly for Lantan.
Chessenta is still there. The first three Brotherhood of the Griffonbooks largely take place there. |
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
-The Sith Code
Teenage Sith zombies, Tulkh thought-how in the moons of Bogden had it all started? Every so often, the universe must just get bored and decide to really cut loose. -Star Wars: Red Harvest |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
497 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2012 : 19:32:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
I'm going to echo Mumadar's notion of the description not including the whole race's decription. When someone describes a person of a specific race, they often describe the one that looks more out-landish. In the case of Tieflings, take one that looks like a 4E one (head horns, tail, scarlet skin, sharp fangs) and one from 2e/3E (small horns, a brimstone smell, light-ish red skin but very human too) and then ask to describe what the race looks like. I think the natural selection is to describe one that looks more fantastic because that sticks in someone's mind a lot longer than one that just has a few characteristics.
Same is applied to Gensai, one that looks more human is more easily accepted and not easily definable as one that has lines of power running along their skin and crystalline hair.
I feel BOTH descriptions can be included with the race and not serve to change the lore of the Race nor that of the setting.
That was an excellent way to put it. All my players (and I) uniformly loathe the appearance of 4th Edition tieflings (not so much genasi, there was more mutability of form with them), and I said from the onset that they could still play tieflings in the 2nd Edition style (which laid the entire issue to rest for us).
Tieflings in 4th Edition style (for my purposes) represent, more or less, the offspring of a human woman and a cambion, and it takes at least one more generation of non-fiendish breeding to produce a tiefling 2nd edition style...the weirdly creepy sort of tiefling rather than the blatantly fiendish sort of tiefling.
If someone suddenly wanted to play the latter, I wouldn't say no, but 4th Edition tieflings in any game I run are going to be rather rare...not too many cambions running around knocking the female populace up. |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2012 : 19:47:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
If someone suddenly wanted to play the latter, I wouldn't say no, but 4th Edition tieflings in any game I run are going to be rather rare...not too many cambions running around knocking the female populace up.
Unless said woman happens to be a certain halfling?  |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2012 : 19:52:35
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I don't think tieflings, dragonborn, genasi, etc., are all that common. We have that perception, because they show up in the PHBs, but outside of a few nations (Akanul for Genasi, Tymanther for Dragonborn--both nations from Akanul where the races were more prevalent), these races are extremely rare.
I wouldn't worry about the appearance too much. The art direction changes in every edition. I consider the art we have in 4e to be the more fantastic looking specimens (the ones with more planar origins), but some tieflings and genasi can indeed pass for human with some make-up. I would expect that the genasi of Akanul look very much like the art in the books, but there are plenty of genasi from more mortal origins that look like what we're used to in the pre-4e books. Basically, it's up to the individual player whether the character looks really exotic or not.*
I apply the same logic to eladrin: you can play a moon or sun elf without glowy/single-color eyes. You just aren't an eladrin from the feywild, where that look is more prevalent. If you DO like the look, you can certainly have a sun/moon elf who has significant eladrin heritage been exposed to feywild magic and has developed it. (Or in my case, a moon elf who has solid gold eyes for a totally different reason.  )
*Fun sidenote: When I was writing Downshadow, one of my conversations with my editor went something like this:
Editor: "In this scene, while they're lying in bed together, where does her tail go?"
Me (stifling urge to make a particularly naughty suggestion): "What tail?"
Editor: "Well, she's a tiefling, right? Tieflings have tails."
Me: "Well, actually she's a FEY'RI, not a tiefling, and it says on page XX that fey'ri have various features . . ."
[Long discussion in which we consider art direction and the virtues and uses of demon ladies with tails]
Me: "OK, well, we'll keep the tail. But I get to keep the antlers, right?"
Editor: "Well duh."
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by arry
Similarly for Lantan.
Very shortly I'm going to create a very long piece on the survival of Lantan via the Atlantis-route. A submerged city adapted to aquatic life through magic and technology. Though I admit that I'll need help in constructing what I want and need a heavy dose of Lore to supplement these ideas. Anyone who's interested, your welcome to PM me any thoughts or suggestions on an underwater approach I intend for the country.
Well, I certainly hope so. That's going to come up in the Create Realmslore contest, and I'm just going to point to your post and say WE SHOULD DO THAT.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
Edited by - Erik Scott de Bie on 20 Jan 2012 19:54:29 |
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Super Wizard
Acolyte
31 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2012 : 19:52:55
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Alright, going for the...
Kuh...Kuh...Kuh...COMBO BREAKER!!!!
In 2e Dwarves were incapable of Arcane Spellcasting...
in 3e they were!
Should I post my character synopsis to appear in you upcoming novel, or send it via email? |
Unstoppably Awesome to the Max |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2012 : 19:56:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Super Wizard
Alright, going for the...
Kuh...Kuh...Kuh...COMBO BREAKER!!!!
In 2e Dwarves were incapable of Arcane Spellcasting...
in 3e they were!
Other thread, SW!
Also, were they actually incapable of arcane magic, or did we just not KNOW they were capable of arcane magic?
quote:
Should I post my character synopsis to appear in you upcoming novel, or send it via email?
Email's fine: erikscottdebie AT yahoo DOT com
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Super Wizard
Acolyte
31 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2012 : 19:58:15
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Oops! Sorry 'bout that!
(But I do win, right?)
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by Super Wizard
Alright, going for the...
Kuh...Kuh...Kuh...COMBO BREAKER!!!!
In 2e Dwarves were incapable of Arcane Spellcasting...
in 3e they were!
Other thread, SW!
Also, were they actually incapable of arcane magic, or did we just not KNOW they were capable of arcane magic?
quote:
Should I post my character synopsis to appear in you upcoming novel, or send it via email?
Email's fine: erikscottdebie AT yahoo DOT com
Cheers
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Unstoppably Awesome to the Max |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2012 : 20:00:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by arry
Similarly for Lantan.
Very shortly I'm going to create a very long piece on the survival of Lantan via the Atlantis-route. A submerged city adapted to aquatic life through magic and technology. Though I admit that I'll need help in constructing what I want and need a heavy dose of Lore to supplement these ideas. Anyone who's interested, your welcome to PM me any thoughts or suggestions on an underwater approach I intend for the country.
Well, I certainly hope so. That's going to come up in the Create Realmslore contest, and I'm just going to point to your post and say WE SHOULD DO THAT.
Cheers
I could imagine a city/culture much like where Jar-Jar Binks is form on Naboo; with Gondish submarine-like technological devices being the actual 'monsters' the pirates of the Nelanther are speaking of. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2012 : 20:20:52
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| I think I can safely say Jar-Jar Binks is where I firmly step behind the grognard line and shout "not in *my* Realms". |
[/Ayrik] |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2012 : 20:23:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I think I can safely say Jar-Jar Binks is where I firmly step behind the grognard line and shout "not in *my* Realms".
On purpose I left out my between brackets comment (without Jar-Jar Binks and the funky accent), just to see who would be the first to react |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4454 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2012 : 20:45:32
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"Me-sa a Chosen of Mystra and me-sa LOVE shooting the firespell-breath thingy!" I can safely say THAT won't be in my Realms, lol.
But Mumadar has the right of it, sort of like Gungan of Naboo but less tech-infused and more magical. But that reminds me that I need to get on with playing Bio-Shock to grab some additional ideas.
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by Super Wizard
Alright, going for the...
Kuh...Kuh...Kuh...COMBO BREAKER!!!!
In 2e Dwarves were incapable of Arcane Spellcasting...
in 3e they were!
Other thread, SW!
Also, were they actually incapable of arcane magic, or did we just not KNOW they were capable of arcane magic?
quote:
Should I post my character synopsis to appear in you upcoming novel, or send it via email?
Email's fine: erikscottdebie AT yahoo DOT com
Cheers
Well, I believe R.A. Salvatore's novel The Crystal Shard Breunor crafted Aegis-Fang with the best materials and scrolls of magic. This novel, I believe, was dated near/around the era of 2nd Edition and thus, shows that Dwarve can use magic, even if it's from magical items and scrolls. But who's to say a dwarf living in his halls didn't fashion him the scroll? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36844 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2012 : 21:05:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Well, I believe R.A. Salvatore's novel The Crystal Shard Breunor crafted Aegis-Fang with the best materials and scrolls of magic. This novel, I believe, was dated near/around the era of 2nd Edition and thus, shows that Dwarve can use magic, even if it's from magical items and scrolls. But who's to say a dwarf living in his halls didn't fashion him the scroll?
It's also possible that something like this is a one-time blessing from dwarven deities: a worthy smith gets one perfect forging, with magic. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36844 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2012 : 21:10:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by Super Wizard
Alright, going for the...
Kuh...Kuh...Kuh...COMBO BREAKER!!!!
In 2e Dwarves were incapable of Arcane Spellcasting...
in 3e they were!
Other thread, SW!
Also, were they actually incapable of arcane magic, or did we just not KNOW they were capable of arcane magic?
quote:
Should I post my character synopsis to appear in you upcoming novel, or send it via email?
Email's fine: erikscottdebie AT yahoo DOT com
Cheers
They had a legend showing that they were denied the use of magic, and in-game, magical items had a 20% chance of failure if not keyed specifically to the dwarf's class. That indicates to me they were incapable.
Of course, this one could have been resolved with a single sentence in the 3E FRCS. All they would have had to do was drop in a line saying the Thunder Blessing also gave dwarves the ability to use magic.
WotC took the time to write up the Thunder Blessing, but did not include a single line explaining away this discrepancy. To me, this is one of the more annoying things from the 3E transition. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2012 : 21:37:10
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Dwarves could always use priest spells. They were also always able to forge legendary magical things anyhow, somehow channeling or casting "arcane" spells into the things hammered at their anvils. At least that's how it appeared, since a great many magical items of dwarven manufacture were always around. It's always possible that they did so with some assistance from a non-dwarf mage type.
Plus the characters in novels are often cheats anyhow, they not constrained by the "normal" rules which apply to the mere peons of the Realms. RAS in particular has always preferred character designs with something "special" that set them apart, ergo we have Drizzt the good-aligned drow ranger who can skewer things apart in an instant. In cases of canon discrepency I invariably view the novel version as the incorrect one which took some narrative liberties. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2012 : 21:44:44
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Dwarves had ancient rune magic, yes? Not all of them, obviously, but I'd imagine that their artisan forgers held on to the ancient art. Perfect for weapon-making, I'd imagine.
I see no problem tying in their "new" use of arcane magic with the Thunder Blessing, if that's necessary.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Super Wizard
Acolyte
31 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2012 : 21:52:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Therise
Dwarves had ancient rune magic, yes?
Nope! Never happened!
(I won, Yeah! It's sooo gonna b cool to show my buddies this!!) |
Unstoppably Awesome to the Max |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2012 : 22:11:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Super Wizard
quote:
Originally posted by Therise
Dwarves had ancient rune magic, yes?
Nope! Never happened!
(I won, Yeah! It's sooo gonna b cool to show my buddies this!!)
Er... what is it that you've supposedly "won"? I was asking a question, not making a statement. The old Illuskans and ancient Netherese used rune magic in the North, and they both interacted and traded with the dwarves of Delzoun. Is it that much of a stretch to think the dwarves knew rune magic?
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36844 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2012 : 22:54:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Therise
I see no problem tying in their "new" use of arcane magic with the Thunder Blessing, if that's necessary.
In my mind, it's the perfect solution. We had the dwarven birthrate being dramatically boosted by Moradin; if he was doing that, "enabling" arcane magic use would be easy to do at the same time. Or maybe saying that dwarves born since the Thunder Blessing were granted this boon from Moradin, whereas older dwarves did not have that ability. |
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One Canon, One Story, One Realms (5e)
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