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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Mar 2012 : 22:55:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Tarlyn
Hey fellow scribes,
What direction would you like to see Thay move in?
Thay has always been at war with itself, and with Agalarond and Rashemen. I'd like to see them 'expand' some more, and not just through their mercantile enclaves. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2012 : 18:48:02
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In my campaign, Szass Tam is occupied with his own schemes, largely leaving Thay to rule/ruin itself. There are numerous zulkirs, as before, and they are involved in their own intrigues, none of which are big enough in scope to actually threaten Tam. A revolution could indeed be building.
Maybe that's a direction for Thay--sort of between the original Thay and the necropolis of 4e.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2012 : 18:50:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
I’d like to see Thay at war with itself. I’d like to see Szass Tam’s hold on it lessened from without and within.
Though Unther really took a beating in the Spellplague, I’d like to see remnants of that nation’s populace be the ones to bring about Thay’s undoing.
Thats an intersting notion.
For some strange reason, although I really liked Mulhorand, I always forget about Unther (maybe because it was 'mostly gone' by the time I became an 'FR fanboi'?)
Thay divided against itself sounds too much like old Thay, IMHO (which I liked, but do we really want to reset everything without and actual reboot? Thats a bit cheesy). Maybe something more akin to a 'civil war' scenario - perhaps some of those Zulkirs that died (from old Thay) managed to survive in some form of necrotic stasis?
Hmmm... now I am making Thay out to be very much like The Great Kingdom (Aerdy) in GH, post-From the Ashes. Not that that would be a bad thing, since GH is officially 'defunct', its lore is up for grabs. Anyhow, a lot of its regional leaders became Animus - a type of undead similar to a lich, but caused by a curse (IIRC) instead of a ritual, and they don't have to be spellcasters. I can see the Zulkirs and tharchions going that route.
I don't know any of the details of what happened to Thay post-Plague, but if Szass Tam left any of those folks around (as undead servants), then it would be kinda cool if he somehow lost control of them, and the place is a war-torn land now.
I can definitely see Dimitra Flass rising from her tomb in Mulmaster and raising a host to 'return home' (The Lich-Queen of Mulmaster has a certain ring to it).  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2012 : 19:41:49
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The existence of exiled Red Wizards really bugs me. I’m cool with the Thayan enclaves, but I just don’t like the idea of Red Wizards being Red Wizards in Exile.
It seemed to me much more likely that (former) Red Wizards would prefer to leave Thay and all it was to them behind, as I can’t imagine them being popular, much less welcomed, anywhere else in the Realms.
I suppose it’s possible one of the enclaves could have received a bunch of Red Wizard refugees. Seeing a Red Wizard enclave grow into a city (over the 100 year gap between campaign settings) would have been cool—maybe that’s something that can be done to help fill in the century time gap.
But where to put it? Sembia?
Anyway, I’m in the same boat as you Markus, in that I’m not terribly well versed in its history with Tam’s ascension.
I’m just going by what’s in the FRCG.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Thay divided against itself sounds too much like old Thay, IMHO (which I liked, but do we really want to reset everything without and actual reboot? Thats a bit cheesy). Maybe something more akin to a 'civil war' scenario - perhaps some of those Zulkirs that died (from old Thay) managed to survive in some form of necrotic stasis?
Or they were made into Blueflame Ghosts.  |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2012 : 20:38:50
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LOL - not a fan of 'Blue-Flamed Ghosts'.
Now, Animus wreathed in black flames... maybe.
Maybe its just the word 'ghost' that bugs me. When I think about them, there is nothing wrong with the concept itself.
As for the Red Wizards, a citystate is something I hadn't considered. I'd put them down in the Bandit-City in the northern Shaar - nothing was ever done with that (and it's canon).
As for the original concept - I never really cared much for the enclaves as-is, but I do find the Thayan expatriates more useful to me. They are now more like a clandestine group, along the lines of the Cult of the Dragon, then a political entity.
We could even rename them the Scarlet Brotherhood.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 13 Mar 2012 20:46:43 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36998 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2012 : 23:34:05
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| I think Mulmaster is the obvious choice for the capital of Thay-in-Exile. It's what I'd do, if I was ever running a Realms campaign (also going with my own version of a Thayan civil war, discussed more than once in the past). |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2012 : 00:22:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I can definitely see Dimitra Flass rising from her tomb in Mulmaster and raising a host to 'return home' (The Lich-Queen of Mulmaster has a certain ring to it).
Brilliant! Richard, are you reading this?  |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2012 : 00:35:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
The existence of exiled Red Wizards really bugs me. I’m cool with the Thayan enclaves, but I just don’t like the idea of Red Wizards being Red Wizards in Exile.
Perhaps because you are unaware of the context? Let me share...
When things were largely unfavorable for them, the zulkirs decided to retreat to the Wizard's Reach, establish their hold there (since Szass Tam doesn't give a damn about that place), rebuild their armies, and when feel the time is ripe, they would strike at Szass Tam and retake Thay. But Aoth Fezim's revelation about the Dread Rings changed everything. All the zulkirs, with only few of their servants, reentered Thay and tried to stop the mad scheme of the mad lich, only to be killed off in the end. Of course, it's much more complicated and interesting than that, but that's the short version of it.
So now, with all their masters dead, the Red Wizards are left to their own devices. Some probably returned to Thay and vowed fealty to Szass Tam. But apparently, many live in exile. Which, if you ask me, is for the best. It gives us hope that someday, a new set of zulkirs would rise again to retake Thay... |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2012 : 01:00:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I think Mulmaster is the obvious choice for the capital of Thay-in-Exile. It's what I'd do, if I was ever running a Realms campaign (also going with my own version of a Thayan civil war, discussed more than once in the past).
Mulmaster is the prudent choice.
But I've also been working to craft the need for a possible temporary base of power for Thay-in-Exile in Thazalhar. It's remote enough from the centre of power in Thay to be removed from the Byzantine politics of the traditional Red Wizards, but it also ensures a tap on what's going on inside the country. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2012 : 02:38:50
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I had some homebrew I created for Thazalhar, for the now-defunct Hordelaands netbook I was working on. Thazalhar is called a 'country' more then once in the Horde material, and while I think this was simply a mistake by the designer of that product, I decided to run with it.
Homebrew:
Thazalhar was the last (and most Northern) region where the Turami racial group could be found (after much displacement by the expanding Mulan slaves of Imaskar). Eventually, the area was subjugated by Imaskar's other thralls - the Taangan tribes - and it became a province of the Imaskar Empire. During the Imaskari occupation, vast numbers of large pteradons were found in the Sunrise mountains, and the Turami were able to establish a rapport with these normally viscious predators. This relationship, coupled with some Imaskari magic and engineering (designing harnesses), eventually led to an airborn arm of Imaskar's military (the very first known on Toril).
After the fall of Imaskar, Thazalhar became one of many survivor-states, and became a powerful military force in the region (in no small part due to it being one of the very few survivor-states that didn't have strong magical traditions). Unfortunately for the folk of Thazalhar, the Orgate Wars spilled into their area (the actual Orc Gate opened by Thayd was located there), and the region was completely devastated by the forces unleashed as mortals and gods battled. When the war was finally over, Thazalhar was no more. Some say the Thazalharans retreated into the mountains - that they were hidden by the Gnomes of Songfarla. Others say they fled into the abandoned halls of Zexthandrim, or into the Underdark of the Sunrise Mountains. Either way, the 'hills have eyes', and anyone traversing the broken lands after dark best beware... travelers have been known to be torn from their saddles and carried off into the night.
This very loosely based on the Kushites of Conan lore. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 14 Mar 2012 02:47:41 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2012 : 15:14:30
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So here's a question:
If one were given the opportunity to design the 5e FR Setting book . . .
(And no, I haven't, at least as yet. AFAIK, they aren't even discussing the book yet. So this isn't me subtly asking for feedback, I'm honestly asking your opinion.)
. . . what REGION would you focus on as a starting campaign site?
Let me explain: My concept for the Campaign guide is to provide all the information you need to start up and run a Realms game, with a TINY travelogue section (mostly leaving that to larger sourcebooks like NEVERWINTER or MENZOBERRANZAN so you can pick and choose a region of play). The book does, however, include an adventure site, similar conceptually to Loudwater from the 4e FRCG, albeit larger and better developed. This would be the default area for starting your campaigns, and would provide suitable challenges for characters of levels 1-5 or so. But where would this be?
My first instinct was the Dalelands, but I'm thinking the scope there is just too big for a small "adventure site" portion of the 5e FR setting book. Waterdeep and Cormyr suffer similar problems--they'd do much better as sourcebooks on their own.
How about the Moonsea? Some classic Phlan, Zhentil Keep, etc., action?
The Sword Coast?
The Heartlands around Baldur's Gate, etc.?
Thoughts?
Cheers
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Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2012 : 15:45:45
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| I think I would like to see Moonsea/Cormyr/Sembia/Cormanthyr. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2012 : 16:22:42
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That’s a tough question, Erik. I think just about anywhere in the Realms could be featured in a sourcebook.
I’d recommend the Border Kingdoms. I think if you start in one kingdom, you can fit it within the levels 1-5 concept, then have later books supplement the first, detailing the other kingdoms and providing higher level challenges for an adventuring party.
Another idea would be to ask Ed to write up a settlement near Candlekeep that has “grown up” over the centures; a waystop south of Candlekeep—but not too far—where merchants and seekers of knowledge have come to rest and camp before making their way to the keep proper, with some choosing to return to the waystop and set up permanent residence as there’s money to be made off the seekers.
This gives WotC a chance to detail the region without necessarily hitting on Baldur’s Gate, which could be the next supplement in line and the “big city” to contract against the wilds players have been adventuring in over their first five levels of play.
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Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 15 Mar 2012 16:24:32 |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2012 : 16:36:41
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| I am biased, but I would take the southern Dragon Reach, near Priapurl. Its relatively undeveloped, semi-silivised and extremely well placed to start a campaign. To the north there are cities and a sea for traveling far away, there are roads leading towards the Sword coast lands and the the south there are open prairies, mountains and plains where any adventure can be placed. If you want to base your campaign in a large country you are within reasonable distance from both Cormyr and Amn |
No Canon, more stories, more Realms. |
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Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2012 : 16:51:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
So here's a question:
If one were given the opportunity to design the 5e FR Setting book . . .
. . . what REGION would you focus on as a starting campaign site?
This would be the default area for starting your campaigns, and would provide suitable challenges for characters of levels 1-5 or so. But where would this be?
My first instinct was the Dalelands, but I'm thinking the scope there is just too big for a small "adventure site" portion of the 5e FR setting book. Waterdeep and Cormyr suffer similar problems--they'd do much better as sourcebooks on their own.
How about the Moonsea? Some classic Phlan, Zhentil Keep, etc., action?
The Sword Coast?
The Heartlands around Baldur's Gate, etc.?
Thoughts?
Cheers
Levels 1-5? I wouldn't start with a region at all. I would focus on something smaller. Not too big ,the Moonsea region, or too small, the village of Hap, but somewhere in between. Instead of the Dalelands, I would go with something inside that region. For me, Battledale would be a nice fit. Go read the entry found in Dalelands supplement then 3.0 FRCS. An untamed land with a few fortified settlements here and there. Adventure is always right around the corner in Battledale.
But if you must insist on a region then I leans towards the Moonsea.
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I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches won’t fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
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Edited by - Bakra on 15 Mar 2012 16:53:24 |
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Azuth
Senior Scribe
USA
404 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2012 : 17:06:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
So here's a question:
If one were given the opportunity to design the 5e FR Setting book . . .
(And no, I haven't, at least as yet. AFAIK, they aren't even discussing the book yet. So this isn't me subtly asking for feedback, I'm honestly asking your opinion.)
. . . what REGION would you focus on as a starting campaign site?
Let me explain: My concept for the Campaign guide is to provide all the information you need to start up and run a Realms game, with a TINY travelogue section (mostly leaving that to larger sourcebooks like NEVERWINTER or MENZOBERRANZAN so you can pick and choose a region of play). The book does, however, include an adventure site, similar conceptually to Loudwater from the 4e FRCG, albeit larger and better developed. This would be the default area for starting your campaigns, and would provide suitable challenges for characters of levels 1-5 or so. But where would this be?
<snip>
You can't go wrong with Arabel, IMHO. Ever.
Azuth |
Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells
The greatest expression of creativity is through Art.
Offense can never be given, only taken. |
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Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2012 : 18:10:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Azuth
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
So here's a question:
If one were given the opportunity to design the 5e FR Setting book . . .
(And no, I haven't, at least as yet. AFAIK, they aren't even discussing the book yet. So this isn't me subtly asking for feedback, I'm honestly asking your opinion.)
. . . what REGION would you focus on as a starting campaign site?
Let me explain: My concept for the Campaign guide is to provide all the information you need to start up and run a Realms game, with a TINY travelogue section (mostly leaving that to larger sourcebooks like NEVERWINTER or MENZOBERRANZAN so you can pick and choose a region of play). The book does, however, include an adventure site, similar conceptually to Loudwater from the 4e FRCG, albeit larger and better developed. This would be the default area for starting your campaigns, and would provide suitable challenges for characters of levels 1-5 or so. But where would this be?
<snip>
You can't go wrong with Arabel, IMHO. Ever.
Azuth
Ahh, I would Silverymoon too. |
I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches won’t fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2012 : 18:12:42
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Cool thoughts guys, thanks!
It's hard to find the right "size" of a region to explore. Hawkins's suggestion, for instance, is definitely iconic Realmsian but probably too expansive: the Moonsea can probably be its own sourcebook (and that's already been done anyway), and Cormyr/Sembia should DEFINITELY have its own sourcebook (and the Lineage! ahem!). I also think the Dalelands (including Cormanthyr) would be a great sourcebook.
Whatever we pick, it's got to be cool and immersive enough PCs will want to spend some time there, but also small enough that they'll feel happy to leave and go off to bigger adventures elsewhere. You should also feel free to head out of there immediately too, if you want--it's only offered as a great, addictive (think "gateway drug") adventure site to start your Realms campaign. Like Loudwater was intended to be but didn't necessarily pull off.
Personally, I think Loudwater is great--it was largely just a tragic casualty of the anti-4e backlash. I started my players there and recently had them return (10 levels later) to save the town from marauding giants under the command of Nosnra, the Hill Giant Chief, at his Stedding. If you see what I mean. 
The Border Kingdoms is a great suggestion, and one that fits really well--the name "Border Kingdoms" evokes all kinds of visions of being on the frontier, staving off the threat of the wild, etc.
This also made me think of the similarly named but separate Bloodstone Lands. that would be returning the Realms to its roots, as the Bloodstone Lands is old school like crazy.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
Edited by - Erik Scott de Bie on 15 Mar 2012 18:16:25 |
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Azuth
Senior Scribe
USA
404 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2012 : 19:15:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Cool thoughts guys, thanks!
It's hard to find the right "size" of a region to explore. Hawkins's suggestion, for instance, is definitely iconic Realmsian but probably too expansive: the Moonsea can probably be its own sourcebook (and that's already been done anyway), and Cormyr/Sembia should DEFINITELY have its own sourcebook (and the Lineage! ahem!). I also think the Dalelands (including Cormanthyr) would be a great sourcebook.
Whatever we pick, it's got to be cool and immersive enough PCs will want to spend some time there, but also small enough that they'll feel happy to leave and go off to bigger adventures elsewhere. You should also feel free to head out of there immediately too, if you want--it's only offered as a great, addictive (think "gateway drug") adventure site to start your Realms campaign. Like Loudwater was intended to be but didn't necessarily pull off.
Personally, I think Loudwater is great--it was largely just a tragic casualty of the anti-4e backlash. I started my players there and recently had them return (10 levels later) to save the town from marauding giants under the command of Nosnra, the Hill Giant Chief, at his Stedding. If you see what I mean.
The Border Kingdoms is a great suggestion, and one that fits really well--the name "Border Kingdoms" evokes all kinds of visions of being on the frontier, staving off the threat of the wild, etc.
This also made me think of the similarly named but separate Bloodstone Lands. that would be returning the Realms to its roots, as the Bloodstone Lands is old school like crazy.
Cheers
The key point is returning to roots. The reason I like Arabel is that it's had decent coverage in many, many books, it has a rich history, it's in a familiar setting (Cormyr, at least the last time I checked) and it sets up a great story without needing to set anything up at all. It's a nice, "miniature Waterdeep" that allows PCs quick access to the heartlands. Yet, it's not as overpowering and epic (or intimidating) as Waterdeep, so a new group of adventurers can easily find many things to do within its walls. It's shady enough for thieves to play well, but open enough for warriors to find "honest" work, mages to have a library, and priests to have decent temples.
That's really the key to me: all character classes can feel "at home" in the first setting. Zhentil Keep, as much as I love using it, is too dark a place for first-level characters. I definitely think it needs a solid refresh for 5e, because it didn't get the love it deserved from Cyric, and what Bane has done since his return is unclear (again, to my knowledge).
I think that familiarity here is a good idea. It has nothing to do with "rebooting" anything, but it drops one level of apprehension. Just my two copper's worth.
Azuth |
Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells
The greatest expression of creativity is through Art.
Offense can never be given, only taken. |
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Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2012 : 19:25:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Cool thoughts guys, thanks!
It's hard to find the right "size" of a region to explore. Hawkins's suggestion, for instance, is definitely iconic Realmsian but probably too expansive: the Moonsea can probably be its own sourcebook (and that's already been done anyway), and Cormyr/Sembia should DEFINITELY have its own sourcebook (and the Lineage! ahem!). I also think the Dalelands (including Cormanthyr) would be a great sourcebook.
Whatever we pick, it's got to be cool and immersive enough PCs will want to spend some time there, but also small enough that they'll feel happy to leave and go off to bigger adventures elsewhere. You should also feel free to head out of there immediately too, if you want--it's only offered as a great, addictive (think "gateway drug") adventure site to start your Realms campaign. Like Loudwater was intended to be but didn't necessarily pull off.
Personally, I think Loudwater is great--it was largely just a tragic casualty of the anti-4e backlash. I started my players there and recently had them return (10 levels later) to save the town from marauding giants under the command of Nosnra, the Hill Giant Chief, at his Stedding. If you see what I mean.
...
I skipped Loudwater because of the anti-4e backlash. But I have to admit it should be given the chance to be included as a ‘starter area’ if not THE starting area for a next generation of FR players. I’m guessing many new Forgotten Realms players began their adventurers career in Loudwater. If we mix in some references to the Green Regent campaign then the potential to capture older players increases. |
I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches won’t fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2012 : 19:33:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
The Border Kingdoms is a great suggestion, and one that fits really well--the name "Border Kingdoms" evokes all kinds of visions of being on the frontier, staving off the threat of the wild, etc.
That and the name would look good (read: stand prominently and be eye catching, all on its own) on the cover of a sourcebook, whether the Realms logo was on it or not. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2012 : 19:33:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Azuth
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Cool thoughts guys, thanks!
It's hard to find the right "size" of a region to explore. Hawkins's suggestion, for instance, is definitely iconic Realmsian but probably too expansive: the Moonsea can probably be its own sourcebook (and that's already been done anyway), and Cormyr/Sembia should DEFINITELY have its own sourcebook (and the Lineage! ahem!). I also think the Dalelands (including Cormanthyr) would be a great sourcebook.
Whatever we pick, it's got to be cool and immersive enough PCs will want to spend some time there, but also small enough that they'll feel happy to leave and go off to bigger adventures elsewhere. You should also feel free to head out of there immediately too, if you want--it's only offered as a great, addictive (think "gateway drug") adventure site to start your Realms campaign. Like Loudwater was intended to be but didn't necessarily pull off.
Personally, I think Loudwater is great--it was largely just a tragic casualty of the anti-4e backlash. I started my players there and recently had them return (10 levels later) to save the town from marauding giants under the command of Nosnra, the Hill Giant Chief, at his Stedding. If you see what I mean.
The Border Kingdoms is a great suggestion, and one that fits really well--the name "Border Kingdoms" evokes all kinds of visions of being on the frontier, staving off the threat of the wild, etc.
This also made me think of the similarly named but separate Bloodstone Lands. that would be returning the Realms to its roots, as the Bloodstone Lands is old school like crazy.
Cheers
The key point is returning to roots. The reason I like Arabel is that it's had decent coverage in many, many books, it has a rich history, it's in a familiar setting (Cormyr, at least the last time I checked) and it sets up a great story without needing to set anything up at all. It's a nice, "miniature Waterdeep" that allows PCs quick access to the heartlands. Yet, it's not as overpowering and epic (or intimidating) as Waterdeep, so a new group of adventurers can easily find many things to do within its walls. It's shady enough for thieves to play well, but open enough for warriors to find "honest" work, mages to have a library, and priests to have decent temples.
That's really the key to me: all character classes can feel "at home" in the first setting....
I think that familiarity here is a good idea. It has nothing to do with "rebooting" anything, but it drops one level of apprehension. Just my two copper's worth.
Azuth
All valid points. The only thing is the cost of a charter which could be fixed with a simple background theme or three. |
I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches won’t fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3768 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2012 : 21:51:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
. . . what REGION would you focus on as a starting campaign site?
Let me explain: My concept for the Campaign guide is to provide all the information you need to start up and run a Realms game, with a TINY travelogue section (mostly leaving that to larger sourcebooks like NEVERWINTER or MENZOBERRANZAN so you can pick and choose a region of play). The book does, however, include an adventure site, similar conceptually to Loudwater from the 4e FRCG, albeit larger and better developed. This would be the default area for starting your campaigns, and would provide suitable challenges for characters of levels 1-5 or so. But where would this be?
-Baldur's Gate. It's a semi-iconic site, so anyone who has played the video games but isn't really that well versed in the Forgotten Realms will know it, and at least be familiar with the city itself, some of the people living in it, and some of the stuff in the local area. It's information-lite enough for older lore to be included and more fleshed out, while not being complete reprints of older books (like Waterdeep, for example). It's cosmopolitan enough to be able to support plot hooks and stories that involve the rest of Faerûn, while small enough to be able to ignore those aspects of the city. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know) |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2012 : 00:30:30
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Hmm, yes, yes indeed . . .
Here's my thinking: the 5e FR guide should include a section on The Border Kingdoms or the Bloodstone Lands, and then the first three setting-type sourcebooks should be Cormyr (classic, iconic, heroic, with Arabel included--indeed, Arabel is a suggested starting point, rather than Suzail), Baldur's Gate (especially good for fans of the game), and the Sword Coast (including Luskan, Longsaddle, the Spine of the World, etc., especially good for people who started playing in Neverwinter).
Ehh?
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2012 : 00:31:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
So here's a question:
If one were given the opportunity to design the 5e FR Setting book . . .
(And no, I haven't, at least as yet. AFAIK, they aren't even discussing the book yet. So this isn't me subtly asking for feedback, I'm honestly asking your opinion.)
. . . what REGION would you focus on as a starting campaign site?
Let me explain: My concept for the Campaign guide is to provide all the information you need to start up and run a Realms game, with a TINY travelogue section (mostly leaving that to larger sourcebooks like NEVERWINTER or MENZOBERRANZAN so you can pick and choose a region of play). The book does, however, include an adventure site, similar conceptually to Loudwater from the 4e FRCG, albeit larger and better developed. This would be the default area for starting your campaigns, and would provide suitable challenges for characters of levels 1-5 or so. But where would this be?
My first instinct was the Dalelands, but I'm thinking the scope there is just too big for a small "adventure site" portion of the 5e FR setting book. Waterdeep and Cormyr suffer similar problems--they'd do much better as sourcebooks on their own.
How about the Moonsea? Some classic Phlan, Zhentil Keep, etc., action?
The Sword Coast?
The Heartlands around Baldur's Gate, etc.?
Thoughts?
Cheers
My first choice would be the Border Kingoms. Perhaps more so than any other part of the established Realms, the Border Kingdoms are designed to be easily customised for particular and/or individual home Realms campaigns -- complete with swiftly shifting borders and ever-changing rulers. So there's plenty of room for changes and/or the addition of new details for your game. A perfect adventure/campaign starting point.
My second choice would be the Dragon Coast... simply because of the history of those shores as revealed by Ed in The Temptation of Elminster. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2012 : 00:56:25
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
My second choice would be the Dragon Coast... simply because of the history of those shores as revealed by Ed in The Temptation of Elminster.
Oh, I fully intend there to be a sourcebook all about the Dragon Coast. One I'd LOVE to write, for obvious reasons.
Cheers
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Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2012 : 01:09:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Oh, I fully intend there to be a sourcebook all about the Dragon Coast. One I'd LOVE to write, for obvious reasons.
I'd so want to be in on the design team for the writing of that sourcebook.
The Dragon Coast has long been one of my favourite regions of the Realms, and I'd be keen for some of my own ideas for the various towns and cities populating the area, to become canon. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 16 Mar 2012 01:10:35 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3768 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2012 : 02:52:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Hmm, yes, yes indeed . . .
Here's my thinking: the 5e FR guide should include a section on The Border Kingdoms or the Bloodstone Lands, and then the first three setting-type sourcebooks should be Cormyr (classic, iconic, heroic, with Arabel included--indeed, Arabel is a suggested starting point, rather than Suzail), Baldur's Gate (especially good for fans of the game), and the Sword Coast (including Luskan, Longsaddle, the Spine of the World, etc., especially good for people who started playing in Neverwinter).
Ehh?
Cheers
-I would agree for the most part, except for giving Baldur's Gate it's own sourcebook. While it's large and detailed enough for, say, it's own chapter in a sourcebook, I don't think it can carry an entire sourcebook all by itself, in the 150-200 page format that we're used to seeing sourcebooks for the past 10 +/- years. If publishing went back to how things were done during 2e days/early 3e days, where they released smaller, softcover books, then Baldur's Gate would be a decent location. Given they already phased that out, and are increasingly moving towards a digital-emphasized production model, I doubt that's in the cards. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know) |
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Azuth
Senior Scribe
USA
404 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2012 : 04:40:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
The Border Kingdoms is a great suggestion, and one that fits really well--the name "Border Kingdoms" evokes all kinds of visions of being on the frontier, staving off the threat of the wild, etc.
That and the name would look good (read: stand prominently and be eye catching, all on its own) on the cover of a sourcebook, whether the Realms logo was on it or not.
The Realms logo needs to be on a sourcebook, I think. If the goal is to draw old vets back and new people in, there's nothing like a solid branding campaign to do so.I happen to love the current Realms logo, so make sure they don't get creative in the creative arts department, Erik!
Azuth |
Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells
The greatest expression of creativity is through Art.
Offense can never be given, only taken. |
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Nilus Reynard
Learned Scribe
Canada
137 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2012 : 06:15:11
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| One thing I would like to see is information regarding religious orders & their related crusaders (if they have any). To see how they are coping with the changes & if they are thriving or going into decline. |
Nilus Reynard
Doom Master of Beshaba, Hand of Despair.
P24 Hm CN
(2nd Edition AD&D) |
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One Canon, One Story, One Realms (5e)
Topic Locked
