| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Jan 2012 : 03:09:51
|
quote:
Originally posted by scererar
Just a thought on Evermeet and the Eladrin/Elves that builds on 4e events and not necessarily causes a "reboot".
[snip]
I do indeed like that concept, of the reclamation of ancient fey magic. That would pull together some disparate pieces, I think.
Those are the sorts of ideas I'm looking for in this thread.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
 |
|
|
WalkerNinja
Senior Scribe
USA
577 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2012 : 03:20:31
|
I wonder about the business sense of supporting a multi-era campaign setting. Do we know how profitable (or not) the Star Wars Saga system is? I know that I don't necessarily hear a lot of buzz about it, and the miniature game seemed to quickly eclipse the role playing game in terms of both designer and player focus.
I genuinely believe that the Forgotten Realms shared world would benefit from segueing from being a setting where role-playing games are set to a Marvel Universe/DC Universe sort of model. Make game edition neutral stories, and publish those stories both as traditional and graphic novels. Have an editor-in-chief that monitors the stories for quality and continuity. Provide a quarterly online digest that will both condense and expand upon the fluff that can be drawn from the stories and which provides crunchy game material conversions into whatever the current edition of D&D is. Publish a print annual of the digital quarterlies once a year.
More than anything never allow the FR Universe to be dictated by anything but story telling. Every time the story has been dictated by the evolution of the game system it has brought strife to the fanbase leading to threads such as this.
In this way you liberate authors to write stories in whatever epoch they desire, and you're also providing crunch for the avid gamer. |
*** A Forgotten Realms Addict since 1990 ***
Treasures of the Past, a Second Edition Play-by-Post game for and by Candlekeep Sages--http://www.rpol.net/game.cgi?gi=52011 |
|
|
|
Tyrant
Senior Scribe
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2012 : 03:52:58
|
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by scererar
Just a thought on Evermeet and the Eladrin/Elves that builds on 4e events and not necessarily causes a "reboot".
[snip]
I do indeed like that concept, of the reclamation of ancient fey magic. That would pull together some disparate pieces, I think.
Those are the sorts of ideas I'm looking for in this thread.
Cheers
Adding to that idea, perhaps this is a good time to detail the other major magical practices and any non-weave based magical practices since they have presumably flourished in the non-Mystra era.
Hopefully this isn't a sidetrack, but something I would want to see is a greater presence of psionics in the Realms. The 4E Psionic Power mentions that the presence of Psionics are on the rise in the Realms and it would be nice to see something reflect that. Perhaps some recently uncovered Jhaamdathan artifacts or writings could become the focus of a new order, or maybe Auppenser finally awakens from his slumber and begins to rebuild his clergy who try to seek out and organize those with psionic ability. Alternatively, the former event could lead to the latter. Either way, it would probably be best to come off as the start of a new surge and not try to portray it as something that has been there for decades (or longer). Psionics should still seem fairly rare, but it would be nice to have the psionic deity back. Since he was put into slumber by Mystra (1.0), either her death or the death of Mystra 2.0 could've lead to him begining to awaken.
Along with that, some more info on Jhaamdath would be nice. Novels set in the ancient empire would possibly be better. |
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
-The Sith Code
Teenage Sith zombies, Tulkh thought-how in the moons of Bogden had it all started? Every so often, the universe must just get bored and decide to really cut loose. -Star Wars: Red Harvest |
|
|
|
althen artren
Senior Scribe
USA
780 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2012 : 19:46:00
|
One thing I would like to see would be some of the mysteries
that have been exposed to us either be expounded on or
solved altogether: The Manshoon Wars, the Artblade of
Myth Drannor, Hesperdan, Khelben's prophecies, even
more info on things like how the spells of Ancient Imaskar
work, you know, stuff introduced to us but not
explained enough. Stop giving us cool ideas, and then
never expand on them. |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2012 : 21:25:00
|
quote:
Originally posted by Tyrant
Along with that, some more info on Jhaamdath would be nice. Novels set in the ancient empire would possibly be better.
Agreed. One of the reasons I don't like a reset is that it most likely limits the number of fallen empires that can be "resurrected." Not all of the lost empires fell in the same timeline. |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2012 : 21:36:27
|
quote:
Originally posted by WalkerNinja
I wonder about the business sense of supporting a multi-era campaign setting. Do we know how profitable (or not) the Star Wars Saga system is? I know that I don't necessarily hear a lot of buzz about it, and the miniature game seemed to quickly eclipse the role playing game in terms of both designer and player focus.
Well, I think drawing long-time fans of all editions of your game back makes great business sense. Also, releasing sourcebook products that can be used independent of your game system (5e) would seem to expand your list of consumers dramatically.
What if WotC could release products that players of 1e-4e and PFRG could all run with their games? That's potentially HUGE.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
|
|
|
sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2012 : 21:46:42
|
how much did the multiple era dragon lance setting books bring in???
if they did not do well for all parties involved than doing a multipl era deal for the realms may not be such a great idea.
this is my only concern for this route.
It would just be easier to fix and undo the damage done by the 4e realms.
return the fallen deities( several authors already working on this), restore each racial pantheon( including Sehanine Moonbow even if all she has is dreams and what not instead of the full moon portfolio) restore Halruaa( even if you steal what I wrote in my not all that well written fan fction that I have somewhere on the web{ escaped to a forgotten netherese demi plane that contains three enclaves that disappeared after the fall) save Tyr, that stick in the mud can stay gone. yes I said he was a stick in the mud.
and the term modular worries me... not completely sure why
however I also don't see why they can not reprint the previous edition modules or a well written combined campaign setting of the very best of the 1e through the 3e campaign settings.write a new FR pantheon book providing material for each era which would just pertain where they are worshipped, holy days... stats of their avatars( not their actual stats) and some on their clergy.
and instead of reprinting the 4e frcampain mess, jsut do a new one for 5e that fixes the 4e problems and move on.
and we'd need a charagter guide too... and it to would have to have player options for each era....
that would be about 4 books rhis way. |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
|
|
|
Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2012 : 22:01:16
|
quote:
Originally posted by althen artren
One thing I would like to see would be some of the mysteries
that have been exposed to us either be expounded on or
solved altogether: The Manshoon Wars, the Artblade of
Myth Drannor, Hesperdan, Khelben's prophecies, even
more info on things like how the spells of Ancient Imaskar
work, you know, stuff introduced to us but not
explained enough. Stop giving us cool ideas, and then
never expand on them.
I second this request, particularly the Manshoon Wars, the Artblade, and the Imaskarcana... oh, and how about telling us something more about those infernal red pyramids of Ascore? Please and thank you.  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
|
|
|
Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2012 : 22:10:18
|
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by WalkerNinja
I wonder about the business sense of supporting a multi-era campaign setting. Do we know how profitable (or not) the Star Wars Saga system is? I know that I don't necessarily hear a lot of buzz about it, and the miniature game seemed to quickly eclipse the role playing game in terms of both designer and player focus.
Well, I think drawing long-time fans of all editions of your game back makes great business sense. Also, releasing sourcebook products that can be used independent of your game system (5e) would seem to expand your list of consumers dramatically.
What if WotC could release products that players of 1e-4e and PFRG could all run with their games? That's potentially HUGE.
Cheers
I agree... WotC tried to make 4E the "one true edition" by severing backward compatibility, and then made sure that their products were mechanics-heavy and lore-light in an effort to ensure that everybody was playing the new game... I think this backfired on them, and simply resulted in fewer people using the new material because it didn't give them what they were looking for. At least, that's my interpretation of what happened, and I'd love to see a Realms that supports all editions. My concern is that 4E departs so radically from previous editions, particularly in terms of mechanics-bloat thanks to the powers system, that a multi-edition platform once again won't have room for lore if it accommodates 4E crunch. Just a thought. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
|
|
|
Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2012 : 22:40:24
|
Going back to Mystra's Chosen: Regardless of era, I hope their time as 'iconic characters' and novel protagonists is done. Elminster is a fiction draw, but I assume Wizards will let Ed move on from him for a while after his current novel contract. Let them appear in stories here and there, but leave them mainly in the background, where they like it. In terms of their rendering in the latest era, I wonder how many who prefer it (however many they are!) care about them overmuch.
Here's the related larger point: no handful of characters define the Realms. The Realms is not special and popular (after all those years and all that mileage) because it's the only world with Shadowdale and Waterdeep. People originally found those characters and those places special because they partook in (and to an extent became emblematic of) the unique feel, sensibility and dynamics of the whole. That is what's stayed constant, nearer or further from the surface, through the upheavals. Care about getting that right, work at it, pick the right people to write it, give them space and trust to do so, make sure it's in every page and every sentence and not all hidden between the lines or serviced to something else, and so many of these problems of continuity, linkage and presentation disclose themselves as the minutiae they are.
quote:
Originally posted by Apex
And what if Bruce decides that the only "problem" with 4E was that they just didn't jump far enough and left too many things for the old-guard to cling to? What if the jump between 4E and 5E is 500 years, is it still "The Realms" then? What about if they decide to collide Athas with Toril, still the Realms? At what point do you draw the line and say "you know what, this just doesn't fell like the Realms to me anymore?
Wherever you like, depending on what defines the Realms for you. Then you ignore those bits and focus on the eras you like. Aren't there lots of sources you ignore now? There are good arguments for moving away from the 15th-century timeline entirely, but this thread is about how the hypothetical multi-era presentation might be done. |
|
|
|
Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2012 : 22:58:30
|
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
<chop>
Wherever you like, depending on what defines the Realms for you. Then you ignore those bits and focus on the eras you like. Aren't there lots of sources you ignore now? There are good arguments for moving away from the 15th-century timeline entirely, but this thread is about how the hypothetical multi-era presentation might be done.
Amen! This is exactly what I'd like to see; let the writers put out material for whatever era they're happiest writing in, most of it probably as online articles (this would get me subscribed to DDI, if it's made available on a per-article basis as well as complete issues), and let the fans decide what's good and what isn't. Larger projects (such as, possibly, an expanded Grand History that includes more events from the Realms' rich history and, ideally, the Cormyr lineage and a chapter on the heraldry of the Realms) can be voted on by the fans... personally, I'd happily pay $50 for a 250-page work of that nature. TSR and WotC have been sitting on a pile of heraldry sent in by Ed with the original Realmslore turnover for 25 years now, and I'd love to see something done with it. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
|
|
|
Tyrant
Senior Scribe
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2012 : 23:03:21
|
quote:
Originally posted by althen artren
One thing I would like to see would be some of the mysteries
that have been exposed to us either be expounded on or
solved altogether: The Manshoon Wars, the Artblade of
Myth Drannor, Hesperdan, Khelben's prophecies, even
more info on things like how the spells of Ancient Imaskar
work, you know, stuff introduced to us but not
explained enough. Stop giving us cool ideas, and then
never expand on them.
Count me in for this. I am okay with the idea that for every answer you throw in more questions, but more answers to some things would be nice. Also, about the Imaskari, along with my idea I mentioned a few posts up, perhaps a comprehensive guide to the various magical practices in the Realms down through the ages would be a good product for WotC to consider. I'm sure that would have crunch elements and I can honestly see headaches from that (how can all of these practices have a spell that makes an arrow of acid, for instance), but I think this one is something that would go over well. Everything from Imaskari magic, to Shadow Weave magic, to Elven High magic, and everything in between. And it could cover numerous eras.
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Tyrant
Along with that, some more info on Jhaamdath would be nice. Novels set in the ancient empire would possibly be better.
Agreed. One of the reasons I don't like a reset is that it most likely limits the number of fallen empires that can be "resurrected." Not all of the lost empires fell in the same timeline.
To follow up on this and clarify my own thoughts, I don't mean to fully resurrect Jhaamdath in the modern day. Even though I think we could use a major psionic power, we will reach a point where everyone is an old empire come back from the past (if we haven't already). If anything along that line were to be attempted, my proposal would be a major center of worship for Auppenser would spring up in the Vilhon Reach around some discovered writings and artifacts of ancient Jhaamdath. Then, have an eventual goal of the new faithful be to create a reborn Jhaamdath. Maybe have them learn from the mistakes of the past and be far less focused on conquest. If you want to mix it up, have some Yuan Ti who have (truly) turned away from their evil ways and want peace and see this as an opportunity to expand their psionic abilities. This gives you a friction point as the other Yuan Ti likely wouldn't approve and would always attempt to plant spies. And it gives them an excuse to use the Yuan Ti more often, which I am very much in favor of.
This is also the type of idea that could see an effort that covers multiple eras and ties them together. Have a trilogy of novels set in Ancient Jhaamdath that either hit the high points or focus on the latter end of the empire and it's collapse. Have it feature the artifacts and writings that the people in the present use as their basis for their new faith in Auppenser and explain how they got to be where they are and what role they played in the old empire. Similarly, something like this could be done with the reclaimed Myth Drannor. Have novels detailing the fall and have elements of them tie into the modern story (artifacts, trapped demons, whatever). |
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
-The Sith Code
Teenage Sith zombies, Tulkh thought-how in the moons of Bogden had it all started? Every so often, the universe must just get bored and decide to really cut loose. -Star Wars: Red Harvest |
|
|
|
Apex
Learned Scribe
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2012 : 23:07:22
|
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by WalkerNinja
I wonder about the business sense of supporting a multi-era campaign setting. Do we know how profitable (or not) the Star Wars Saga system is? I know that I don't necessarily hear a lot of buzz about it, and the miniature game seemed to quickly eclipse the role playing game in terms of both designer and player focus.
Well, I think drawing long-time fans of all editions of your game back makes great business sense. Also, releasing sourcebook products that can be used independent of your game system (5e) would seem to expand your list of consumers dramatically.
What if WotC could release products that players of 1e-4e and PFRG could all run with their games? That's potentially HUGE.
Cheers
How about just re-releasing/making PDFs of the old material available again. The decision to pull all the PDfs peeved me off even more than 4e. Also, I am sure (based on eBay/amazon) that there is a pretty decent market for print on demand for most of the old books (with original formatting). It seems like the designers simply have no business sense. |
|
|
|
Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2012 : 23:40:12
|
quote:
Originally posted by Apex
How about just re-releasing/making PDFs of the old material available again. The decision to pull all the PDfs peeved me off even more than 4e. Also, I am sure (based on eBay/amazon) that there is a pretty decent market for print on demand for most of the old books (with original formatting).
This, right here, is one of the things I hope will happen. With the digital revolution, it is a darn travesty that WotC doesn't release all their products ever as digital downloads, with the option for Print-on-Demand for people who want a physical copy.
quote:
It seems like the designers simply have no business sense.
You're far from the first (or last) one to think that. The sad fact is actually worse than you think: the designers aren't the ones making the decisions on how and when things get released. A lot of decisions in the past have been handed down from above, from people who don't actually play the game or know how it's played or why people would play it. AFAIK, Essentials, for instance, was mandated by leadership--not a designer-initiative. Nothing against those people (I've met a number of them and many of them are great people), but more power should be invested in the actual designers, editors, etc., on the setting, who are in the trenches, doing the hard work and taking all the blame.
Even the 4e debacle should really not be blamed on the designers who designed the Realms 4e. I suspect a great many of those decisions (advance 100 years, prune out a lot of the perceived focus of the Realms, etc.) were not theirs.
D&D Next (5e) has set a tone of inclusivity, however--listening to all different ideas and feedback from all kinds of sources, including us, the consumers. This way, I hope we can avoid the problems that cropped up in the 4e transition.
Cheers
|
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
|
|
|
Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2012 : 23:53:16
|
| One definite example of designers not making decisions is that neither Eric Boyd nor Erik Mona wanted the god stats in Faiths and Pantheons. It's one of the reasons I try not to cast blame too glibly even when really stupid things happen. |
|
|
|
Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2012 : 00:39:57
|
I wonder if they've learned from this and will allow the designers to make the decisions going forward... I'm keeping my hopes high and my expectations low until I've seen something more concrete; doing so keeps my surprises pleasant.
Edit: I concur with Mr. de Bie on the PDFs and print-on-demand for older products, and I'll state in support of this idea (for any and all WotC staffers or freelancers reading this) that my gaming budget hasn't really changed since I stopped buying WotC products, and about a third of what I've been spending has been at DriveThruRPG and RPGNow. The rest of it has been spent on every single non-adventure Pathfinder product I can afford. Just sayin'...  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 19 Jan 2012 00:47:20 |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2012 : 02:06:59
|
Problem: Products released in eBook-only formats.
Related problem: Consumer eBook prices are based on obsolete, ridiculous, and unsustainable marketing models.
Reasons: Plenty of people enjoy reading recreationally but can't or won't do so with eBooks. Some of us go one step further and particularly despise proprietary closed-DRM formats such as Kindle and EPUB. It it ain't plain open PDF then it ain't worth the electrons it's printed on. And how the hell can a publisher claim that a book costs $20 so the eBook should "only" cost $19?
Fixes: Just don't do it. How hard can it be to continue publishing paper and eBooks? At least give people the option of buying paper, even if it costs more. And certainly make eBooks cost less.
Too bad I'll never read Shadowbane, I'd love to but I refuse to accomodate the format, not to mention I'd want something I can choose to read years or decades later (without buying another copy of the book) - that is, long after the proprietary DRM license crap and reader device have expired. Software and hardware and even cars I expect to depreciate until they're useless ... but not books. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 19 Jan 2012 02:22:19 |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2012 : 02:16:41
|
Tyrant:
I must clarify that as well. I didn't really mean Jhaamdath should be resurrected in the present time. As I suggested in a related thread (though the example I gave was Halruaa), the story can be told in the present, but with enough look into the past, detailing how the realm got nuked, who the survivors were, where they went after, and what they have been doing for the last century... |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
WalkerNinja
Senior Scribe
USA
577 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2012 : 02:50:19
|
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by WalkerNinja
I wonder about the business sense of supporting a multi-era campaign setting. Do we know how profitable (or not) the Star Wars Saga system is? I know that I don't necessarily hear a lot of buzz about it, and the miniature game seemed to quickly eclipse the role playing game in terms of both designer and player focus.
Well, I think drawing long-time fans of all editions of your game back makes great business sense. Also, releasing sourcebook products that can be used independent of your game system (5e) would seem to expand your list of consumers dramatically.
What if WotC could release products that players of 1e-4e and PFRG could all run with their games? That's potentially HUGE.
Cheers
This sounds very good in theory. I believe that this thesis is probably what motivated the saga edition in the first place. What I am asking is if there is any market evidence that Saga Edition has been financially successful to the degree that we can use it as a blue print for a new FR marketing scheme.
Comparing Star Wars to FR and their respective fanbases is far from comparing apples-to-apples after all. One is totally independent of all gaming platforms, and may freely go from one to another (or engage in multiples simultaneously), while the other is eternally enslaved to a hobby/game community that is diminishing and fracturing. The story of one is unalterable by game mechanics--mechanics must be adapted to accurately depict the story. The other is a sock-puppet worn by a game and subject to the whims not of authors or its creator but a merry-go-round of game designers that are hired, fired, or free-lanced willy nilly. 5E is just another glaring example of this: The game system begins to fail>The staff is replaced>People immediately start talking about changes and revisions to both the system and the campaign as if they were totally intwined (which they aren't, and weren't from the beginning when Ed first wrote them).
At the core of it, we have to decide whether the story of the Realms is compelling enough to compete in the market place against other fantasy stories like the Wheel of Time, Shannara, or Harry Potter. If they are, then our slavish devotion to the system and basing story decisions on the system only degrades the setting and makes it less competitive.
Divorce FR from D&D. Build it into its own unique and compelling source of fantasy (think Marvel's House of Ideas). Then create games based on the stories.
I have faith enough in the Realms that they can stand on their own, and that D&D need only be one of many possible garnishes that can be added to them. |
*** A Forgotten Realms Addict since 1990 ***
Treasures of the Past, a Second Edition Play-by-Post game for and by Candlekeep Sages--http://www.rpol.net/game.cgi?gi=52011 |
|
|
|
Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2012 : 03:20:10
|
Without a contemporary single-era Star Wars RPG to compare Wizards' to (not just the Saga Edition but the 2000–4 version), you couldn't tell from its sales what effect its multi-era nature had.
Let us indeed hope that the pluralism of the new D&D lets the Realms be unyoked from it. |
|
|
|
WalkerNinja
Senior Scribe
USA
577 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2012 : 03:49:22
|
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
Without a contemporary single-era Star Wars RPG to compare Wizards' to (not just the Saga Edition but the 2000–4 version), you couldn't tell from its sales what effect its multi-era nature had.
Let us indeed hope that the pluralism of the new D&D lets the Realms be unyoked from it.
I think that circumstantially you can determine from Wizards' treatment of the Star Wars RPG that's its not doing great. I mean, the hallmarks of a great RPG line is a continuously evolving story, product releases, expansions, in a word: buzz.
I don't really get that feeling from the Saga Edition. |
*** A Forgotten Realms Addict since 1990 ***
Treasures of the Past, a Second Edition Play-by-Post game for and by Candlekeep Sages--http://www.rpol.net/game.cgi?gi=52011 |
|
|
|
Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2012 : 04:22:44
|
| Fantasy Flight Games has the new License for the Star Wars RPG. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
|
|
|
|
Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
497 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2012 : 05:39:07
|
quote:
Originally posted by Hawkins
Fantasy Flight Games has the new License for the Star Wars RPG.
Oh lord...that makes three systems? West End, Wizbro, now FFG. Ugh - I hope they do it justice. |
|
|
|
Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2012 : 06:02:47
|
quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
quote:
Originally posted by Hawkins
Fantasy Flight Games has the new License for the Star Wars RPG.
Oh lord...that makes three systems? West End, Wizbro, now FFG. Ugh - I hope they do it justice.
As long as they don't try to pretend that Jedi can be balanced with the other character types, there shouldn't be a problem. But then, I believe the same thing about arcane casters in D&D; if it's something that anyone can do something comparable to, it's not magic, and if you want your wizards balanced with your warriors and rogues, just take away their spellcasting ability. There. Balanced. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31798 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2012 : 06:06:53
|
quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
quote:
Originally posted by Hawkins
Fantasy Flight Games has the new License for the Star Wars RPG.
Oh lord...that makes three systems? West End, Wizbro, now FFG. Ugh - I hope they do it justice.
I know the WEG edition is often championed as the best adaptation of an RPG for STAR WARS, and while I agree, I also find that I rather liked the Wizards version, and the subsequent Saga Edition they released after the initial roleplaying game for the universe. The systems had their quirks, of course, though I don't feel that they impacted too much on my overall gameplay experience over the years to warrant any type of dislike for the rules. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Lirdolin
Learned Scribe
Germany
198 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2012 : 10:34:02
|
quote:
[i]
1. Multiple Eras
...
3. Age of Heroes, 1470-1480s (4e, 100 years after the Spellplague): A hundred years after the cataclysm of the Blue Fire, the Realms has changed in some ways and held true in many others. With many of its legendary champions receding into the shadows, the Realms has never needed heroes more. In Cormyr, we see the court of King Foril, the enduring schemers seeking to destroy the weakening Obarskyr family, and a little of Elminster's activities in the recent novels.
(We could add a 4th option: Age of Change, 1385-1400, which covers the Wailing Years.)
I actually like the idea of multiple eras, my one concern being the Spellplague which will 'nuke' many accomplishments of the novel's and player's heros from the earlier eras. Think of the 3e Cormyr/Shadowdale/Anauroch -Adventures... the heros managed to save Mystra, only to have her die 'offstage'.
So to me the Age of Heros should be a time where the 3e heroes or their descendants should have the possibility to set things 'right'. The Spellplague's damages should be healed and not come to the forefront.
But some fear that this will be soley done by the novel's heroes, but I think that this view/fear is unjustified if done right.
For Example: Maybe Elminster and Crew will bring back Mystra, mayby El himself will become the next Azuth? Who knows? But who will spread the word of the returned Goddess of Magic (rebuilding/reclaiming temples) and head her new church in the end? Who will replace the fallen or ascendet Chosen and wrestle mad demigods (like Obould I and Fzoul) to protect their returned goddess? Who will reclaim Halruaa and rebuilt it for the Glory of the Lady of Mysteries and take it's throne? The player's heroes!
Other examples might inclued powerplays in Waterdeep to gain a place among it's Masked Lords and help return it's splendor, rebuilding Neverwinter, leading a returned Crinti army to reclaim Dambrath from the Shifters (for those who like a darker turn and dislike eberronic interlopers ), defending the Dales/Myth Drannor/Cormyr from an Netherese attack via flying cities, bringing Eilistraee or other gods back seeing that it worked for Mystra, leading a small noble house of drow up the ladder in Menzoberranzan or other drow cities, helping the dwarves of Mythril Hall fight an orc horde while Drizzt is busy in Neverwinter or the elves of the high forest to rebuilt Earlann, exiled red wizards might kick Szass Tams bony butt, reclaiming Thay for the new zulkirs- themselves.
There are numerous possibilities for player heros to star in epic adventures without the novel's heros stealing the spotlight. So novel and player heros can co-exist if there are left enough 'blank niches' for the players to fill.
Best wishes
Lirdolin |
Edited by - Lirdolin on 19 Jan 2012 10:37:28 |
|
|
|
arry
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
317 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2012 : 13:17:32
|
| From my perspective the 4e Realms can never be 'fixed' so WotC should just continue with it. Providing lore from earlier periods is made available I'll be content with that. |
|
|
|
Lady Swiftstrike Assassin
Seeker
73 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2012 : 16:49:15
|
Eric, this is a great idea for a scroll; but a scroll which has been attempted on numerous occasions.
In my opinion, you will not find much support for a "One Canon to Rule them All".
The grognards of Candlekeep simply DO NOT WANT the Realms to develop in any significant way; they want the Realms to be the safe place they retreated to in their adolescence. They want the Realms to be the escapist playground they knew and loved when they were adolescents; indeed, they want to be able to 'go home', to return to their adolescence.
Here's my twin coppers on the topic of this scoll.
Sticking Points of Canon
Abeir
Speculation runs rampant; recently, The Sage stated that Abeir exists in the Prime Material Plane of Realmspace. Rich Baker has indicated that Abeir is in a different dimension, though linked via portals and the like, and it's cosmological orientation is not yet defined. Unfortunately, the old grognards know that the 'Abeir' in Abeir-Toril was an add-on for that old glossary or whatever... even though 'we' always called the planet 'Toril'. So while the 'nards can fully accept that the living beings of Toril were generated from pre-created Lizard, Bird and Fish men, the idea that an ancient struggle between gods and titans...er, primordials spurred the Overgod to create a twin planet in a different dimension eons before even the creator races appeared is just *too* much to handle.
I don't know why that is, but it is.
The Elves/Eladrin Controversy
It couldn't be easier to comprehend, but the g'nards refuse. After the Spellplague, the plane of Faerie, called by many sages the Feywilde, became more closely linked to Toril than it had been in ages past. Where before there were only 'fey mounds' 'fey rings' and 'ley lines', now Toril has much enhanced 'access' to faerie. Many elves who lived in Faerie crossed over to Toril, and the 'proximity' of the Feywilde granted the elves who were native to Toril new abilities associated with the Feywilde. The elven diaspora to Evermeet has come to an end, the elves have returned to the mainland, and Evermeet has returned to Arvandor/Olympus/Faerie/the Feywilde. The once waning numbers of elves in Faerun was reinforced with these new refugees, and elvens cities have risen anew.
The Dragonborn/Warforged
People believe that Dragonborn and Warforged are cool. The Realms has room for *lots* of stories. There have been 1/2 Dragons, weredragons, dragonweres, men descended from dragons, dragon elves, ad infinitum, in the Realms since the begining. Not to mention that Bahamut-sponsored-turn-you-into-a-dragonborn thing. A lot of g'nards seem to think that dinosaur-people are kewl, but dragon-people, (in Dungeons and Dragons) are not.
I don't share this belief; I think dinosaur people, hell, dinosaurs in general in a Fantasy game, are lame.
There are *so* many ways to drop Warforged into the Realms. I mean, a ton... Imaskari warriors reawakened? Netherese warriors reawakened? Lantanese constructs? Gondsmen? A Wizard in the highest magical setting of them all just decided to build them?
It's kinda silly to think that in a world where one has a hard time keeping one's toe unstubbed by sentient artifacts, that *ONE* wizard in the past 30,000 years has never anthropomorphized one...
Mystra, the Chosen, and the Weave
Mysta is not Dead. She never died. (Welcome to the Forgotten Realms... you can pick up your Resurrection Card from the nearly-nekkid lady in thigh-high boots at the bar.)
The Weave, and the canon representation of it, is *Extremely* mutable. There are canon references which indicate divine and arcane magic flow through it, there are references which indicate only arcane magic flow through it, and there are reference which indicate it is a Western-Faerun only phenomena.
Who cares! It's a metaphor, it's real, it *IS* Mystra... it *isn't* Mystra... it's the mechanism by which all Life operates... whatever. Just use the Force, Luke.
The Chosen, when used properly, were a great thing. When used poorly, they screwed up the Realms-as-a-place-for-you-and-your-friends-to-pretend-to-save-the-world. Oh, sure, the g'nards may want to roleplay being sheep-herders in High Dale, but the real adolescents want to save the world. Be important. If you know that there are lots of people *way* tougher than you, better equipped for the job, and the WORLD REALLY IS ON THE LINE, why the hell wouldn't Elminster pitch in?
I think that Ed has some cool things in store for the next line of Mystra's Chosen. We shall see. Regardless, the g'nards CRAVE THOSE SILVER-HAIRED SEX GODDESSES... a world without them is utterly offensive to them. Oh! Where would the world be without Alustriel pulling a train from Sundabar to Silverymoon...
-============================================================-
In short, in my opinion, I don't see any type of consensus being formed between the g'nards and a new fan base.
It's been tried.
Those scribes got shouted down for heresy.
And will be shouted down again.
In my opinion.
-=======================================================-
But I wish you luck! |
|
|
|
Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2012 : 16:51:06
|
quote:
Originally posted by arry
From my perspective the 4e Realms can never be 'fixed' so WotC should just continue with it. Providing lore from earlier periods is made available I'll be content with that.
OK, but WHY don't you think it can be fixed? What about it gives you trouble? (And don't say *everything*--start giving me a list. Pick three things.)
I'll bet you a character in my next novel that I can fix any 3e transition to 4e canonical issue you throw at me. Let's do this!
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
|
|
|
Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2012 : 16:59:09
|
quote:
Originally posted by Lady Swiftstrike Assassin
Eric, this is a great idea for a scroll; but a scroll which has been attempted on numerous occasions.
In my opinion, you will not find much support for a "One Canon to Rule them All".
The grognards of Candlekeep simply DO NOT WANT the Realms to develop in any significant way; they want the Realms to be the safe place they retreated to in their adolescence. They want the Realms to be the escapist playground they knew and loved when they were adolescents; indeed, they want to be able to 'go home', to return to their adolescence.
Here's my twin coppers on the topic of this scoll.
Sticking Points of Canon
Abeir
Speculation runs rampant; recently, The Sage stated that Abeir exists in the Prime Material Plane of Realmspace. Rich Baker has indicated that Abeir is in a different dimension, though linked via portals and the like, and it's cosmological orientation is not yet defined. Unfortunately, the old grognards know that the 'Abeir' in Abeir-Toril was an add-on for that old glossary or whatever... even though 'we' always called the planet 'Toril'. So while the 'nards can fully accept that the living beings of Toril were generated from pre-created Lizard, Bird and Fish men, the idea that an ancient struggle between gods and titans...er, primordials spurred the Overgod to create a twin planet in a different dimension eons before even the creator races appeared is just *too* much to handle.
I don't know why that is, but it is.
The Elves/Eladrin Controversy
It couldn't be easier to comprehend, but the g'nards refuse. After the Spellplague, the plane of Faerie, called by many sages the Feywilde, became more closely linked to Toril than it had been in ages past. Where before there were only 'fey mounds' 'fey rings' and 'ley lines', now Toril has much enhanced 'access' to faerie. Many elves who lived in Faerie crossed over to Toril, and the 'proximity' of the Feywilde granted the elves who were native to Toril new abilities associated with the Feywilde. The elven diaspora to Evermeet has come to an end, the elves have returned to the mainland, and Evermeet has returned to Arvandor/Olympus/Faerie/the Feywilde. The once waning numbers of elves in Faerun was reinforced with these new refugees, and elvens cities have risen anew.
The Dragonborn/Warforged
People believe that Dragonborn and Warforged are cool. The Realms has room for *lots* of stories. There have been 1/2 Dragons, weredragons, dragonweres, men descended from dragons, dragon elves, ad infinitum, in the Realms since the begining. Not to mention that Bahamut-sponsored-turn-you-into-a-dragonborn thing. A lot of g'nards seem to think that dinosaur-people are kewl, but dragon-people, (in Dungeons and Dragons) are not.
I don't share this belief; I think dinosaur people, hell, dinosaurs in general in a Fantasy game, are lame.
There are *so* many ways to drop Warforged into the Realms. I mean, a ton... Imaskari warriors reawakened? Netherese warriors reawakened? Lantanese constructs? Gondsmen? A Wizard in the highest magical setting of them all just decided to build them?
It's kinda silly to think that in a world where one has a hard time keeping one's toe unstubbed by sentient artifacts, that *ONE* wizard in the past 30,000 years has never anthropomorphized one...
Mystra, the Chosen, and the Weave
Mysta is not Dead. She never died. (Welcome to the Forgotten Realms... you can pick up your Resurrection Card from the nearly-nekkid lady in thigh-high boots at the bar.)
The Weave, and the canon representation of it, is *Extremely* mutable. There are canon references which indicate divine and arcane magic flow through it, there are references which indicate only arcane magic flow through it, and there are reference which indicate it is a Western-Faerun only phenomena.
Who cares! It's a metaphor, it's real, it *IS* Mystra... it *isn't* Mystra... it's the mechanism by which all Life operates... whatever. Just use the Force, Luke.
The Chosen, when used properly, were a great thing. When used poorly, they screwed up the Realms-as-a-place-for-you-and-your-friends-to-pretend-to-save-the-world. Oh, sure, the g'nards may want to roleplay being sheep-herders in High Dale, but the real adolescents want to save the world. Be important. If you know that there are lots of people *way* tougher than you, better equipped for the job, and the WORLD REALLY IS ON THE LINE, why the hell wouldn't Elminster pitch in?
I think that Ed has some cool things in store for the next line of Mystra's Chosen. We shall see. Regardless, the g'nards CRAVE THOSE SILVER-HAIRED SEX GODDESSES... a world without them is utterly offensive to them. Oh! Where would the world be without Alustriel pulling a train from Sundabar to Silverymoon...
-============================================================-
In short, in my opinion, I don't see any type of consensus being formed between the g'nards and a new fan base.
It's been tried.
Those scribes got shouted down for heresy.
And will be shouted down again.
In my opinion.
-=======================================================-
But I wish you luck!
Definition on a grognard please? If I am being insulted I want to know and see if I can find a word to use in return that is not against the Candlekeep code of conduct. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
One Canon, One Story, One Realms (5e)
Topic Locked
