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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Jan 2012 : 16:33:39
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Okay, these forums are more active then I've seen them since I first joined, but it doesn't seem like we are coming to any sort of consensus on anything, other then most of us want a new edition. I even use the word 'most' tentatively (4e fans are grossly under-represented on this site).
So, if we do get a reboot (and it looks pretty certain, but we shall see), what would you like to see change? Or would you rather they just reprint all the old material as-is?
And BTW, don't just give simple, one-word answers (or snarky ones). If you want to see them 'modify' (walking on eggs with the terminology here) things, what pieces of canon or parts of the setting would you like to see receive this treatment, and why, and examples of how you would resolve the perceived problem.
Also, I would like to touch-upon the interconnectivity of the Realms with the greater D&D universe - should the cosmology represent this, or would folks rather we revert to a simpler, FR-only model? Please offer an opinion on this as well.
I am not looking for just a list of thing we don't like in this thread - I expect everyone to suggest SOLUTIONS. This is a golden opportunity we are being handed - lets not waste it.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 16 Jan 2012 16:34:26
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2012 : 17:07:11
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I realize this sounds very similar to several other topics here, but I am looking for specific changes, why, and how you would 'fix' them.
The other topics, I fear, are far too broad. I'm looking to create a bullet-list. I would also ask that each person - who probably have their own very long lists - just do 2-3 things they would want changed per post, to keep it all easy-to-read, and in a format we can follow (the other threads just seem to turn into "who can shout the loudest" (and yes, I am also looking in the mirror while I say this).
Let me go first, and present an easy format -
Problem: Calimshan
Reasons Why: Despite Steven Schend's amazing job with the region, it just doesn't seem to fit where it is. It is also very redundant with the later-added Zakharan sub-continent (a problem neither Ed nor Steven were able to foresee).
Fixes: Move it near the Golden waters. This is a major continuity change, and will require some epic tweaking. It is too important in FR's history to simply retcon-out, so moving it is the best option (IMO). Even changing its culture further (Steven went more for an ottoman Empire thing) would not work as well, because its culture is also well-defined in canon. the only other solution I see is if they reset the setting any time after 1385, in which case they can make it into the genasi region I believe it became in 4e (and once again, I feel even that culture would be out-of-place as well). The 3rd solution is to get rid of Zakhara, which I am loathe to do - thats like getting rid of Maztica all over again.
This was just an example, and not anything I think will ever happen. Note I included three different solutions to my perceived problem - that is how I would like to see this thread proceed. Also, feel free to offer your own 'fixes' to others perceived problems (but not "your an idiot!", or anything of that nature - we need positive energy here folks - if you disagree, then make that your problem, and explain why, in the same format). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 16 Jan 2012 17:11:57 |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2012 : 17:09:47
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This is a chance for the Wizards people to finally stop asking the question 'What can we change about the Realms this time?' Enough. Not again. The last thing the setting needs is yet more of this plastic surgery, however clever or well intentioned. It's no more the right question here than it would have been for Francesco Nepitello to start designing The One Ring RPG by wondering how to alter or 'fix' Middle-earth.
But there are things worth changing in how it's presented. One of them is, yes, showing in full the links between worlds and planes for the first time, which were played down first out of bizarre PR concerns and then when these themes went to Planescape. Links not just to D&D worlds but to a literary multiverse; the secret struggle for control of gates that drives so many high-level events; planar nexuses from the Wood between the Worlds to Odd Alley. It is not the Forgotten Realms without this. |
Edited by - Faraer on 16 Jan 2012 17:18:55 |
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ZeshinX
Learned Scribe
Canada
210 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2012 : 17:12:39
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If a reboot happens, then I think it should be a complete reboot, almost to the point of a re-inventing, not just going back to a certain year and starting over from that point (if some lore is to be undone, then let it all be undone so no one era of fans can be viewed as the "winners" of the Edition Wars as it relates to lore and events).
There may be some staple characters that appear (the same or completely different or anywhere in-between), the general geography can be the same (the geographical changes of 4e can be undone, but what it added can simply be a new continent, or placed on one of the Unknown Lands continents), and the timeline and events pre-OGB can remain relatively intact.
I think this would allow designers much more freedom to create. Whether that be to recreate old lore with some new twists, create something new entirely, or explore people and places that received little attention before. I would hope that RSE's become a thing of the past though. Enough of those.
There's no perfect solution (and I'm not sure a reboot is even a good idea), but if a reboot were to happen, then as above, it should go all the way.
EDIT: I'll add some specifics when I have a wee bit more time (stupid work getting in the way  ).
Problem: Returned Abeir/Tymanther
Reasons Why: I don't mean their inclusion is a problem, more their locations. You shouldn't need to destroy what is when there are plenty of other physical places to put them that wouldn't destroy anything.
Fixes: Move them somewhere else. Instead of obliterating Maztica, Mulhorand, Unther, etc, simply put them on their own continent elsewhere. I get they were placed where they were placed to get them "front and center" for the 4e Realms, but we've seen the reaction to that. Keep them around, but move them to their own corner of Toril. |
"...because despite the best advice of those who know what they are talking about, other people insist on doing the most massively stupid things."
-Galen, technomage |
Edited by - ZeshinX on 16 Jan 2012 19:49:08 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2012 : 18:41:53
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| And before anyone goes there, it'd be really nice to keep this thread free of the debates we've been seeing elsewhere, of late. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4438 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2012 : 19:37:14
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Ok, I'm game.
Problem: Mystra and her complete control of ALL magic on Faerūn (and possibly Toril).
Reason Why: As the protector and controller of the Weave, she as instant access to sever any magical connection to people on the planet. This is probably the single most powerful condition to hold over anyone on the planet and with this, she should've had complete domain over everyone who casts spells. That, I feel, is just too much power in one God's hands.
Fixes: Make the Weave an intangible force that surrounds the planet, making spellcasting easy as math yet with the right focues. This intangible aspect can be "protected" but not controlled though the workings of a God. It's as integral as say, the planet's Ozone layer or the air people breath. It just "IS". Now, she can still be the Goddess of magic and have domain over all things with Arcane magic and divine magic of her devotees, but not ALL of it ALL the time. |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2012 : 19:58:51
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I would like Evermeet to show real effort into retaking Myth Drannor, an effort spanned over several centuries. The result could be either a failure, so the city is still dominated with fiends and monsters (as I do in my Realms), or a recent success after a tremendous multi-racial military initiative. I think it only took a couple of years in 4e lore, and I think it doesn't make any sense, especially for elves.
This might not be Realm specific, but I think the general power of citizens should be higher. An army of a major center of power like Waterdeep is always shown as a bunch of level 0-1, level 2-5 being officers, and level 6-9 being top generals. While this made sense back in 2nd edition, I think since 3rd edition these low levels could be attained after a rather short training (dangerous yes, but short), as shown by adventurers. A 15 years veteran should be more like level 6-7 than level 1-2, a patrol in such a city should be a at least a minor challenge for a party of 4 PCs level 5. While this seems like a mechanic issue, I think it could be fixed in the lore. |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2012 : 20:03:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Ok, I'm game.
Problem: Mystra and her complete control of ALL magic on Faerūn (and possibly Toril).
Reason Why: As the protector and controller of the Weave, she as instant access to sever any magical connection to people on the planet. This is probably the single most powerful condition to hold over anyone on the planet and with this, she should've had complete domain over everyone who casts spells. That, I feel, is just too much power in one God's hands.
Fixes: Make the Weave an intangible force that surrounds the planet, making spellcasting easy as math yet with the right focues. This intangible aspect can be "protected" but not controlled though the workings of a God. It's as integral as say, the planet's Ozone layer or the air people breath. It just "IS". Now, she can still be the Goddess of magic and have domain over all things with Arcane magic and divine magic of her devotees, but not ALL of it ALL the time.
Isn't it exactly what spellcasters realised after the spellplague? If so, this is already canon, though I'm pretty sure it was a retcon from previous editions, when Mystra WAS the Weave, I think. |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2012 : 20:08:57
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quote:
Originally posted by ZeshinX
Fixes: Move them somewhere else. Instead of obliterating Maztica, Mulhorand, Unther, etc, simply put them on their own continent elsewhere. I get they were placed where they were placed to get them "front and center" for the 4e Realms, but we've seen the reaction to that. Keep them around, but move them to their own corner of Toril.
My theory is that Returned Abeir was a good opportunity to remove uninteresting areas, or areas that didn't fit so well in the Realm. Maztica, Mulhorand and Unther were all areas I never cared for personaly, and their specific pantheon even less. I'm probably not the only one who felt that way. |
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Apex
Learned Scribe
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2012 : 20:14:27
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| I am one that would actually rather see most (if not all) the old material reprinted just about as is, unless the re-telling then changes something perhaps. Why spend cash to change otherwise free ip. |
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
769 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2012 : 20:39:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
So, if we do get a reboot (and it looks pretty certain, but we shall see)
I'm curious. Where do you get the impression that there will be a reboot? |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2012 : 21:12:33
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Again, changing the setting this way to match personal preference over the creators' intent is great for individual campaigns, but has led to nothing but fragmentation and erosion in the official setting, the last thing that the Realms needs yet more of now. This is not what Ed sold it to TSR for.quote:
Originally posted by Kilvan
Isn't it exactly what spellcasters realised after the spellplague? If so, this is already canon, though I'm pretty sure it was a retcon from previous editions, when Mystra WAS the Weave, I think.
There was no retcon; Mystra has always been the Weave, there have always been other possible ways of doing magic, they came to the fore in the post-Spellplague timeline.quote:
Originally posted by Kilvan
This might not be Realm specific, but I think the general power of citizens should be higher.
I'd rather this was achieved by turning back the adventuring classes' level inflation than by raising the 0-level types to compensate. |
Edited by - Faraer on 16 Jan 2012 22:00:31 |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2012 : 22:27:38
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ZenshinX beat me to the Returned Abeir/Maztica topic, pretty much word for word as I would have stated it. All I will add to his thoughts are: There is a complete outline map of pre-Sellplague Toril in the 3rd Edition Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, page 231. There is a lot of empty, open ocean there (where our Pacific Ocean lies, by itself, could hold Returned Abeir without changing a anything else on the map). Enough said. To move on, and quantifying that this is Realms-specific and NOT mechanics:
Problem: The pointless butchering of signature Realms personalities.
Reason Why: Time jump was far, far, far too large.
Fixes: (Assumes Sellplague era continues): Use permutations in the fabric of space-time, magic portals, resurrections, dark rituals, summonings, pacts with extraplanar beings, and so forth, to bring back the beings and deities that gave the Realms part of the unique flavor that distinguished it from any other run-of-the-mill fantasy setting. Being a Chosen of Mystra these days is a little like someone my age (pushing 50) being a top dodgeball champion way back in second grade. So that removes that issue...which never really should have been an issue...argh, my head.
Cosmology: To be honest, I would prefer a return to the Great Wheel. Several reasons. One, it is supported by the Planescape mythos (first and foremost), affording Wizbro the opportunity to offer this superb material once again in one format or another. Secondly, it is to date the most coherent interpretation of the Outer Planes that TSR and its successors have offered. Thirdly, the 'minimalist' approach with the Astral Sea-Elemental Chaos idea shows itself to be exceedingly...well, minimalist, sort of like being given a third of a hamburger for lunch, with no fries or milkshake.
I hope I have adequately adhered to friend Markus's strictures about post format. I will post other things as I think of them, but this post is already pushing length limits.
- OMH |
Edited by - Old Man Harpell on 16 Jan 2012 22:28:15 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2012 : 23:56:52
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I would suggest making Abeir an accessible location, some fiction like people suddenly noticed that it's sharing the same orbit as Toril yet is on the exact opposite side of the sun where it's "invisible" to planetside observers, or the Wounded Weave is stretched thin in places and all the godly mucking around has blurred or anchored the boundaries between world-dimensions, or even that Ao built bridges, whatever.
Wholesale (and rather arbitrary) moving around and swapping of entire regions is never going to be a popular solution, it's been a centrally contentious issue which catalyzed the 4E schism right from the onset. But establishing permanent portals or other links between transposed places would allow adventurers native to the Realms to explore Tymanther and Laerakond or faraway Unther and Maztica with equal ease. To present the inevitable Star Trek analogies, we could have all sorts of "wormholes" between known locations on these two worlds, some large enough to move fleets and armies, others barely able to accomodate a short 2E-style halfling with a hunchback, some with fixed endpoints, others which arrive at more random destinations, some very public while others secured very closely against intruders from either side.
This of course means all of Abeir would need to be mapped and detailed. Or at least those regions which are readily accessible, while unsurveyed lands could simply be marked "Here Be Dragons" and expanded in future products. The end result is that the many lands in the Realms are not diminished at all but they are instead doubled; two worlds, one "known", well-established, and detailed to death, while the other is something like the America discovered by Columbus, full of wonders and secrets and (sometimes dangerous) native inhabitants. Perhaps exploration will eventually discover signs of failed (or successful!) colonies on Abeir which originated from the civilizations and nations of ancient Toril.
Imagine the possibilities if the Spellplague was not directly instigated by Shar and Cyric at all, but rather from agencies on Abeir. The entire event could've basically been a magical battering ram thrust at the barrier between worlds, all so that Abeir could invade Toril to expand or seize some (tangible or immaterial) resource they lack.
Problem: Halruaa nuked.
Reason why: A lot of people really liked Halruaa.
Fixes: It would be easy to say Halruaa was (mostly) not destroyed but simply transposed onto Abeir, replaced on Toril with a smoldering crater-puddle left over from whatever cataclysmic war or other long-ago event destroyed its counterpart region on Abeir. Perhaps Halruaa was able to escape to some entirely different demiplane, much as Thultanthar escaped Netheril's Fall - indeed, it's always possible that a changed Halruaa could return to the Realms unannounced (and perhaps unwelcome) at any date in the future, while descendants of Halruaa's survivors on Toril might strive to hasten or prevent this happening. It might even be argued that Halruaa was able to divine its own impending doom, and whatever complex magical wards and constructs it was able to implement were somehow responsible for causing a backlash resulting in the destruction evident on post-Spellplague maps. But whatever is left of Halruaa, and wherever it might be, it would better serve Realmslore by remaining at least partially intact. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 17 Jan 2012 00:35:11 |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2012 : 00:51:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Ok, I'm game.
Problem: Mystra and her complete control of ALL magic on Faerūn (and possibly Toril).
Reason Why: As the protector and controller of the Weave, she as instant access to sever any magical connection to people on the planet. This is probably the single most powerful condition to hold over anyone on the planet and with this, she should've had complete domain over everyone who casts spells. That, I feel, is just too much power in one God's hands.
Fixes: Make the Weave an intangible force that surrounds the planet, making spellcasting easy as math yet with the right focues. This intangible aspect can be "protected" but not controlled though the workings of a God. It's as integral as say, the planet's Ozone layer or the air people breath. It just "IS". Now, she can still be the Goddess of magic and have domain over all things with Arcane magic and divine magic of her devotees, but not ALL of it ALL the time.
My only issue is, isn't this a problem with all god powers? Shar knows ALL Secrets, Oghma has ALL knowledge, Talos controls ALL destruction, and so on. Basically, it seems like the gods are a game of Paper Rock Scissors. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4438 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2012 : 01:53:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
My only issue is, isn't this a problem with all god powers? Shar knows ALL Secrets, Oghma has ALL knowledge, Talos controls ALL destruction, and so on. Basically, it seems like the gods are a game of Paper Rock Scissors.
Yet Mystra was the Goddess of/was the Weave. IF the weave collapses or she stops aiding spellcasting using it, then Talos can't aid his clerics, Oghma can't depart information, and Shar can fuel her priestess with secrets to bring down their enemies. Practically every spellcaster utilizes the "Weave" for their magic and Mystra is sort of the Gatekeeper of that access. If she can turn off/on their source, then that makes her practically the 2nd most powerful being aside from Ao. |
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WalkerNinja
Senior Scribe
USA
575 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2012 : 03:53:38
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Problem: Disappearing/Reappearing Cities/Civilizations/Continents
Why? Seriously? The first time it was cool. The second time it was sorta cool, but I'm starting to detect a trend. 14 times later? Seriously?
Fix: Repeat the following mantra daily:
I am a creative person. I am employed on the basis of my ability to be creative. I will avoid replicating or duplicating supernatural plot devices that have been central to the campaign continuity within the last 5 years. I will take this reboot opportunity seriously in order to redeem the faults of my well-meaning forebears and avoid bringing shame to myself, my company, and my hobby. By the beard of Ed Greenwood, I shall overcome! |
*** A Forgotten Realms Addict since 1990 ***
Treasures of the Past, a Second Edition Play-by-Post game for and by Candlekeep Sages--http://www.rpol.net/game.cgi?gi=52011 |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2012 : 04:40:48
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I'd like to see multi-classing done similar to 2nd edition. I'd like the rules to not be as complex as 3.5, but not gutted like 4E. Realms side, I would like to see something finally done with Tethyamar. I envision that place as the Mines of Moria of the Realms, so it needs to be suitably epic if done.
The Zhentarim should be brought back under the control of Manshoon, based out of Darkhold or perhaps Mulmaster. I would also like to know more about the Reclamation of Shanatar and that Army of the Gold and Gray. I don't recall much done with that other than the Wyrmskull Throne and a few current clack snippets.
If the designers are going to detail any future drow cities, make it something we haven't seen before. Menzoberranzan is great and all, but let's see Guallidurth or Undraeth or some other city we haven't seen.
Tell us why the dwarves disappeared from the Haunted Halls of Eveningstar and the Storm Horn mountains. The Haunted Halls have such great lore behind them they should almost make another adventure, with better maps and story. :)
Patch up those rifts that are open all over the 4E map. Sure we can have a few, but scale them back.
The Great Rift. Need moar information here. You could probably set an entire campaign setting that deals with Underholme and looting the ruins and kicking the drow out. I would love to know more about this area. Think Dwarves Deep redone for 5E. I'd also reduce the size of the giant underchasm here.
I'm somewhat OK with Netheril, but I have issues with them being a floating city of gods. AKA: annihilation of Zhentil Keep and the Citadel of the Raven. Sembia being under their control is sort of interesting, but we either need more info on the dynamics of this rulership, or start a civil war there that the shades are trying to contain.
Bring back the dead and missing gods please.
Play down the earthmote thing. Yes they are neat, but make them rare, like that rock floating by the Flaming Tower.
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2012 : 05:04:56
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I doubt any game designers care about my personal thoughts, but:
#1 Not realms related but the return of all the original alignments.
#2 - deities
Mystra, Midnight, and Mystryl are reborn together as an Unaligned deity of magic. Maybe named Mystran = P
The drow pantheon returns. Sharess probably doesn't like her son Selvetarm being dead and may want to resurrect him. She recovers the Crescent Blade and performs a ritual which undoes the killing it has done. She uses the Eye of Selune, he and Zanassu spring forth from his astral corpse and she aids him in destryoing Zanassu without absorbing his evil. Selvetarm is the god of multi-racial beings (Half-elves, genasi, tieflings, fey'ri, etc.) Eilistraee-Vhaeraun are merged and take on the role Mask once did, but unaligned/neutral instead of evil. Kiaransali was never killed and worms her way back into the realms.
Amaunatar should we Lawful and not good. Torm should be "Justice" and Amaunatar "Law" in regards to the one word portfolios, although I think they should change that and allow them to have 1-5 areas of interest.
I like Leira and Ibrandul and just want them to be alive again, I don't care how.
#3 The physical world
Opus should return to the realms. Aumvor the Undying and Larloch should successfully check the power of the Empire of Netheril.
Zhentil Keep should be resettled.
No nation should be monotheistic (We worship just Shar! We worship just Bane!) The setting should be polytheistic in nature. |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2012 : 10:58:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Problem: Calimshan ...
Problem: The Bedine
Reasons: the same
Fix: move to Raurin
Personally I'd change a lot more than the Spellplague, but there's no point in posting when everyone else would disagree. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2012 : 12:58:25
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Problem: Halruaa
Reason: There's hardly any magocracies in Faerun. Why nuke one?
Fix: Bring it back. By all means feasible. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2012 : 13:51:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Problem: Halruaa
Reason: There's hardly any magocracies in Faerun. Why nuke one?
Fix: Bring it back. By all means feasible.
Decisions like eliminating Halruaa really confuse me. I just can't imagine a bunch of game designers sitting around a table and thinking that destroying Halruaa was a great idea. One of the most unique places on Faerun...gone. If this is one of their approved ideas, then what in the world did they reject?? |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2012 : 14:35:22
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When you're a creative person working as a brand manager or staff designer, it's very tempting to shape creative 'properties' in your own way, to put your spin on things. When your personal liking matches what can be argued as a popular move, or to match a general creative direction, it's even more tempting. When you're under pressure to meet sales targets, you're going to want to claim credit for successes, rather than give it to freelancers hundreds of miles away. And of course once you've made a decision you then rationalize it so it seems natural to you, though it may look odd to others.
I don't know exactly how these dynamics have worked in the Realms, but I've observed them elsewhere at first hand, and they're real. So these changes-from-without we've seen in the past, though I think they've usually been destructive and often shamefully disrespectful to Ed, aren't surprising in the circumstances. It will take real character for Wizards to move to a different tack. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2012 : 15:12:51
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quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Problem: Halruaa
Reason: There's hardly any magocracies in Faerun. Why nuke one?
Fix: Bring it back. By all means feasible.
Decisions like eliminating Halruaa really confuse me. I just can't imagine a bunch of game designers sitting around a table and thinking that destroying Halruaa was a great idea. One of the most unique places on Faerun...gone. If this is one of their approved ideas, then what in the world did they reject?
I recall some scribes postulating that it had something to do with giving more focus on Shade as a magocracy, and eliminating a possible threat. Well, Halruaa was not aggressive, and it thrived in secrecy and was content with what it had. Also, it's one of the realms that for me had not been fully explored. Elaine's C&k trilogy (which was set in Halruaa) is great, and allows us to see the realm in (almost) full light. But there' still so much more that could have been shown... |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Apex
Learned Scribe
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2012 : 15:15:37
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Problem: Timeline moving too fast/Too many RSE's/Too many cooks in Ed's kitchen.
Reason: Ed's original Realms (what we have seen of them) were spectacular. They were dangerous and developed, but left plenty of room for DM's to innovate on their own without violating canon and yet seemed like a plausible (for fantasy) place.
The Fix: Reboot to the OGB (or before) and then put constraints on the speed of timeline advancement (maybe 6 months Realms = 1 year Earth). Force the fleshing out of the existing time Realms before moving into the future. The ideal solution is to detach the novels from canon (but that won't happen). |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2012 : 15:20:16
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quote:
Charles Phipps
My only issue is, isn't this a problem with all god powers? Shar knows ALL Secrets, Oghma has ALL knowledge, Talos controls ALL destruction, and so on. Basically, it seems like the gods are a game of Paper Rock Scissors.
It's worse than that. Rock-Paper-Scissors is a child's game of little consequence ... the gods play something more akin to Poison-Nuke-Cockroach with collateral damage of worldly magnitude. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2012 : 15:24:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Problem: Halruaa
Reason: There's hardly any magocracies in Faerun. Why nuke one?
Fix: Bring it back. By all means feasible.
Decisions like eliminating Halruaa really confuse me. I just can't imagine a bunch of game designers sitting around a table and thinking that destroying Halruaa was a great idea. One of the most unique places on Faerun...gone. If this is one of their approved ideas, then what in the world did they reject?
I recall some scribes postulating that it had something to do with giving more focus on Shade as a magocracy, and eliminating a possible threat. Well, Halruaa was not aggressive, and it thrived in secrecy and was content with what it had. Also, it's one of the realms that for me had not been fully explored. Elaine's C&k trilogy (which was set in Halruaa) is great, and allows us to see the realm in (almost) full light. But there' still so much more that could have been shown...
Agreed. I was always surprised that we didn't see a larger variety of novels set in Halruaa; especially considering the magic-rich nature of the Realms. |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2012 : 15:29:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
It's worse than that. Rock-Paper-Scissors is a child's game of little consequence ... the gods play something more akin to Poison-Nuke-Cockroach with collateral damage of worldly magnitude.
But they don't: the gods only very rarely act directly in Faerūn at all apart from minor manifestations, as discussed in Faiths & Avatars -- Realmslore is clear and consistent in this, except in that their appearance as avatars during the Godswar, which was supposed to be a terrifying, all-but-unique occurrence, was later taken up almost as a norm by a small minority of novels and sourcebooks. |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2012 : 15:53:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
It's worse than that. Rock-Paper-Scissors is a child's game of little consequence ... the gods play something more akin to Poison-Nuke-Cockroach with collateral damage of worldly magnitude.
But they don't: the gods only very rarely act directly in Faerūn at all apart from minor manifestations, as discussed in Faiths & Avatars -- Realmslore is clear and consistent in this, except in that their appearance as avatars during the Godswar, which was supposed to be a terrifying, all-but-unique occurrence, was later taken up almost as a norm by a small minority of novels and sourcebooks.
Their actions, while not exactly occuring on Faerun, can have devastating effects on the world = Spellplague |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
Try Audible and Get 2 Free Audio Books! https://amzn.to/2IgBede |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2012 : 15:59:17
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| Ah, we disagree. I feel that the gods on Faerūn intervene and interfere with daily happenings far too frequently. Even when the gods themselves do not walk the lands or clash directly, their mortal proxies and followers clash and die in endless divine conflicts. I needn't even name the obvious examples of apocalyptic calamity which godly activities have torn into the fabric of the setting. These things would not happen if the gods were not competitive and meddling. But this scroll is not well-suited to such arguments. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2012 : 16:11:05
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quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
Their actions, while not exactly occuring on Faerun, can have devastating effects on the world = Spellplague
As I observed at the time, that sequence of events was precisely the designers taking the Avatar novels' soap-operatic portrayal of the gods as superpowered mortals active on Toril -- a conception, again, foreign to the Realms -- and using it to drive their desired modifications for the new setting.
Or you could say there were two concepts of divinity in published Realmslore: Ed's original subtle one, still predominant till the 4E shift, and the Avatar-derived one, which was apparently naturalized in Realms-2008. That is, overactive divinity can be easily taken back by simply portraying the Realms as Ed, Julia, Eric et al. conceived and described it. Imposing yet another pantheonic revision would be analogous to 'fixing' Calimshan to account for Zakhara, a feedback loop of Chinese whispers. |
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What would you change? (5e)
